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Girls & Math - Self-Confidence

June 2009

My daughter is starting middle school this fall. She's always been an excellent student, with particular strengths in language and art. However, her math skills are good - not extraordinary as are some of her other skills, but more than adequate. However, a couple of weeks ago she said to me ''I'm not that good at math.'' I know this isn't true, and that she is comparing her math skills to her reading and writing, but I'm concerned that at 11 years old she's at an age where self-doubt in girls about math abilities is reinforced, even with teachers who make an effort not to do this. I'm searching for resources that will help shore up her confidence about math. She doesn't need a tutor, just to know that she CAN do this and her skills and abilities are fine. I looked at the books by Danica McKellar, but they are designed to make math fun for girls who are into celebrities, hair and makeup, etc. - things in which my daughter has no interest. Does anyone know of other ways to build confidence in this area? We live in San Francisco but are usually in Berkeley on the weekends. Don't need another mathphobe


I am a soon to be retired math and physics tutor. In spite of saying she doesn't need a tutor, that is the single best way to inspire her. A good tutor's main job is not to improve her grades (most of my students are b+ or A students even before they come to me), it is to make the student confident in their math abilities and to inspire them, and hopefully even make math their favorite subject. One-on-one tutoring is in any case so much more powerful than ANYTHING a classroom teacher, public or private, can do for a student sitting in a room with 20 or 35 other students. You seem to be looking for books to do this complicated, difficult task. The Danica books you mentioned are the only ones out there that I have seen that are somewhat in the direction you are looking but it seems you don't feel they are right. Frankly, I just can't see a kid that age getting inspired by yet another book. She needs someone sitting right next to her sowing her that she can be the top math student in her class. There is nothing more inspiring than being very good at what you do. When other students start coming to her in class to ask, ''Wait a minute, how do you do that again?'' she will soar.

One other thought; almost all of my top math students say they are not good at math (in spite of their A's). I ask them why they think that when it is so obviously not true and they always say, ''Because it's so hard.'' That's because math IS hard. It is not some candy- ass subject like English or history where the biggest challenge is to try to stay awake as you read about the dusty battles of Napolean. In math you must USE your brain and actually THINK. And this is a hard thing to do. You can almost feel your brain in pain as you try to work through a problem. So tell her, just because math seem hard, doesn't mean at all that she is not good at math, it just means that even for smart people, math is hard.


My daughter was the same way, but later on, in high school. I kept reinforcing that she was a great problem-solver and some math is more interesting, complex, or challenging than other types. We forget that there are all types of math (arithmatic, geometry, algebra, trigonometry, calculus, word problems, etc.). I think if it's broken down into smaller bits and she sees that she likes or feels more comfortable doing some types, and the others are not as easy to grasp for her, it's not like she's not that good at ALL of it... It's like learning a language. She's young and has not yet discovered all the areas of math. Some people grasp the concepts and some have a harder time of it. Some have that kind of head and some don't. I don't think it has to do with gender at all. I think it also depends on the teachers that you get. So, keep in touch with your daughter's math teachers over the coming years.

PS I was not very confident in math when I was young and now I see that part of it was because I didn't have any guidance as to how to LOOK at it. I'm a great PROBLEM-SOLVER, love puzzles and playing pool, and that's what's it partly about, but no one one really broke it down that way. I also had an awful foundation...'nuf said...

Good luck! anon


From my perspective, it is nice just to piont out things around you and your daughter that are math related, and see how they help show us things or help us make decisions. From the ''price per oz.'' on the shelf labels at the grocery store, to graphs and charts in newspapers, to food labels, to cool diagrams and hands o activities at science museums (Cal Academy, Larence Hall of Science, Exploratorium). Lots of hands on physics has a huge math component. So just noticing and discussing a little bit may help her feel more comfort with math concepts, or see how she already uses them.

Perhaps she would like to have a more instant recall of basic math facts (i.e., times tables). Ask her if she wants help with that, then you two can work together on quizing each other this summer. Knowing the times tables inside and out can make the rest of math much less stressful, at her grade level.

Consider what tyope of math she did this last year in school. Many folks are better at spacial stuff than they are at equations (or the other way around). If this is the case, you can encourage her and remind her that everyone has strengths, and each of us has to work hard on something.

The last bit: if an honors math track is offered where she goes to middle school, ask her if she is interested, and if she isn't, don't push her into it. It is likely best, in my opinion, that she excell in the regluar class than bomb in an excellerated class. Her near- term success, may set the stage for future growth i skills, and at least, won't squash her self-image more. Mom


One of the things I noticed is that the girl's basketball team of which my daughter was a part in middle school was also composed of top students. They usually did their math together before the game, and it was *fun* because they all cared. They were all very competitive which meant they competed in math as well as basketball, but were a team so they helped each other on homework. So look for a supportive ''team'' that values studies (avoid solitary sports like track - you're looking for team support) - it can be sports like basketball or perhaps a club like drama or art or language (you'd be surprised at how smart some of these kids are - memorizing lines or constructing sets is hard work and takes skill). Good luck. Lynne
Three authors Wendy Lichtman: ''Secrets, Lies, and Algebra,'' which also has a sequel (I read the first, my daughter read both and loved them); a middle school girl sees the world in terms of math, and tries to solve a mystery. Set in North Oakland/Berkeley, so the locations are fun to read & the classroom part is right in the details.

Marilyn Burns: ''Math for Smarty Pants,'' and a number of other recreational math books.

Theoni Pappas: Books for kids (and adults) about math topics and history.

You could ask Diesel to order the books for you, or go up to Lawrence Hall of Science and see if they are in their bookstore (the best bookstore in the east bay for math/science books for kids and teachers.)

You could also check out some of the math games (SET is my favorite; or Mastermind); and ''Family Math'' a book that LHS puts out with games for families to play. math teacher


My middle-school-aged daughter (now in 6th grade) LOVES the Expanding Your Horizons Conferences. If you want to encourage your girl's self confidence and love of the STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) -- these workshops are for them (also some have parent workshops). My daughter enjoyed the one at SF State so much (her first conference), she then went to the DVC and Mills College conferences. We'll be signing up for more. Sign up early because they fill up fast! Brenda

Geometry over the summer, Algebra 2 in the 9th grade?

March 2008

My son will be a freshman this fall. He current takes Algebra 1 now. I would like him who complete Geometry this summer and take Algebra 2 in the 9th grade. I need some advices. Middleschool Parent


It depends on how much your son likes math. IF he LOVES math and IF you have him do geometry either in a high school or at ATDP, it's a good idea. It also might be a good idea if he is pretty sure he wants to go into engineering or a hard science. Otherwise, you may be putting him in a position of taking more math than he really wants to take as selective colleges will expect him to take math each year of high school. Judith, former math dep't head BHS
I think that if your child is motivated to do this ( or any educational activity) run with it unless it is totally inappropriate. Actually both my kids ended up taking geometry in 8th grade and so did honors Algebra 2/trig in 9th and did fine. Good luck! jenny
To add to my last message. If your son is not motivated and it is coming from YOU ONLY I would not do it. As they get to be teens I think they need to know that their parents trust their judgement on an increasing number of things Jenny

Math for gifted kids

Nov 2007

Is anyone who has a child who is gifted in math pleased with how their school is teaching their child math? What is your school? What are they doing that you like? How old is your child? Has anyone found any non-school programs that they like teaching math to gifted kids? THANKS! Math Mom


For kids age 9 to 18 who love math, check out the Berkeley Math Circle at http://mathcircle.berkeley.edu/

It meets every Tuesday evening at the UC/Berkeley Math department, and each 2 hour sessions is run by professional mathematicians - professors, researchers, and grad students. Kids meet others who love math and learn novel mathematics ... and get challenged by novel math problems. Last week was the math of a Rubik's cube; coming up are sessions on geometry and Pascal's triangle.

The best part of the math circle is that nobody will understand everything from a Tuesday night, but everyone comes away excited!

The Berkeley Math Circle is one of the finest in the country; few other communities have a program in the same league. Cliff


Bentley's lower school (grades 1-8) has a great math program, especially for middle schoolers, who take two years of Algebra (7th & 8th) from two extraordinary teachers, Saul Gerry & Nick Grener. Bentley isn't for every child, but it is fabulous for the academically gifted child, especially those who excel in math. mom of gifted child
Anyone with a gifted child should know about this web site: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/gifted_101.htm You'll find lots of suggestions that are specific to math, and all kinds of other resources, too. Lorelei
I've looked at many private schools (and checked out the Piedmont public schools) since my older son is mathematically- inclined and the curriculum at the private school he attended until 2nd grade was dismal and not challenging at all for him.

In my opinion, there's no other school that can teach math as thoroughly as Berkeley Montessori School (where our kids have been enrolled for the past 6 years). While other schools teach children how to get the right answers (with schools boasting superior math curriculum teaching FASTER ways, often shortcuts, to the right answers), BMS teaches math in a way that gives students a really deep understanding -- the students truly internalize the math concepts (what's behind the concepts, how to expand on them, etc.). The challenging math curriculum and the superior teaching tools and method are the main reasons why we came to BMS (although, now that we're here, we realize that the amazing social curriculum is also a boon).

Another avenue for you.....somewhere in Palo Alto, Johns Hopkins University holds a math summer camp for gifted children. I've never researched it because it's far away and our kids are getting such a rich curriculum at our school. I can find out, though, since our Middle School math teacher has taught there for the past few summers -- please let me know and I can ask her for you.

Good luck, Agnes


Schooling a child who is very advanced in math

June 2007

Hello, Our son is in a high-ranking public elementary school and his 3rd grade teacher just reconfirmed for us that he is several grades ahead in math and has a great interest in science. (He is GATE identified, but that doesn't mean much - if anything in our school).

We are beginning to wonder what type of middle school we should consider. At this point, we are open to public and private, but not necessarily to homeschooling (I admire homeschoolers....I just don't think it is a lifestyle for us). What school in the east bay would you recommend for a child who loves to learn, particularily math and science? thank you in advance


My sixth grade child, also very advanced in math, has had a great experience at Berkeley Montessori School (BMS). The individualized approach and curriculum allows children to explore interests such as math, as far as they want to go. The incredible teachers encourage them and will go out of their way to meet their needs, not only academic, but also social and emotional. And my child has had great peers with similar interests and abilities to share this passion with. My child still loves to learn and loves going to school (not true of friends at more traditional schools). I would encourage you to check out the BMS middle school at http://www.bmsonline.org. Mom of a math child
Black Pine Circle School (http://www.bpcweb.net) in Berkeley has one of the strongest middle school math programs in the East Bay, if not the entire Bay Area. BPC students regularly place in the top of math competitions, but even more importantly, math is valued at BPC and the school works hard so that every middle schooler learns math at the appropriate level for that individual student. There are also after school math clubs that middle school students at BPC may join for extra math activities. BPC also hosts the ''Making Math Real'' program (http://www.makingmathreal.org), which is focused on different ways children learn math. As for science, the Director of BPC has a Marine Biology degree, and one of the middle school science teachers has a Ph.D. Science is highly valued at BPC. Due to space limitations, there is not currently a full-blown science lab, but the school is looking into options for further developing their science program. Still, they are creative with the space they do have. For example, just yesterday the first grade class dissected squids with the help of the lower school science specialist. I have two children at Black Pine Circle School and highly recommend BPC for your child who is advanced in math and loves science. Check it out; it might be a good fit! BTW, BPC also has very strong programs in art, music, and drama throughout all grades (K-8), so there are plenty of creative outlets as well. - Sharon
If you live in Berkeley and your child is in middle school, I'd recommend the honors classes in the BUSD middle schools. Generally those kids do best in Honors Math at BHS -- maybe because they've learned how to learn in a larger class, or because the public school curriculum is more comprehensive. There are also a number of strong summer programs beginning with Lawrence Hall of Science, and ATDP; COSMOS (through the UCs) for older kids. Martin Gardner's books of puzzles/recreational math are good for gifted students. Try the LHS bookstore for supplemental materials. a math teacher

Math options for middle schooler not being challenged

Mar 2004

I'm seeking math options for a middle schooler. He is currently a 7th grader getting an A+ in 8th grade algebra at his private middle school. Next year he will stay at the same school for 8th grade, but his teacher has stated that his math class will consist entirely of independent study, with at most 1 class period/week with her. Aside from the fact that I don't want to pay tuition for my son to teach himself math, my son is not happy about the idea of independent study. It was offered this year and he declined. I also think he will rarely get his 1 class period/week with the teacher. I'm pursuing Honors Geometry at Berkeley High as a possibility and was wondering if there were any other options for him? Any ideas? Thank you


regarding the gifted 7th grade math student -- my daughter is also a 7th grader earning an A+ in 8th grade honors algebra -- her teacher has recommended honors geometry at berkeley high for her next year -- i'd be happy to share the limited info i have with you -- you can e-mail me.
This is in response to the mother who is seeking ''Math Options '' for her middle school son: A very viable option for your son would be to enroll him in a math class at your local community college. Although we home school our high school age teens, I know of several middle school age children who, with the permission of the instructor take college classes. Another benefit is that credit and/or AP standing can be received and applied to your son's transcript. Wendy

Math enrichment for middle school

Jan 2004

My 7th grader is bored and frustrated with his 7th grade math class. The teacher allows him to work independently with another child because they have tested out of the regular curriculum. But he says this just means that they get to work ahead in the book by themselves. He came home saying, ''Mom, I don't like to teach myself math.'' Any ideas or recommendations of classes or tutors? I should deal with the school, but I think that is unlikely to get me any results in time to save his love for math. I have looked through the list of tutors on the web-site, but I'm not sure that a traditional tutor is what he needs. Thanks for any suggestions.


You might try looking into the Educational Program for Gifted Youth (EPGY), a distance learning program run by Stanford University. My son started taking math classes through EPGY 3 years ago when we gave up trying to persuade his teachers to supplement his work and tutors didn't work out. He enjoyed the challenge and as a result was able to take high school level algebra as a 7th grader and geometry in 8th grade. The big downside to the program is its expense, which is $450 a quarter. Another resource you should check out is the Academic Talent Development Program (ATDP) summer school run out of the Education Department at UC Berkeley. They have a variety of classes including math classes for this age group in their secondary division. My son has gone to ATDP for 2 summers now and really enjoys it, because, unlike EPGY, it involves a live math class full of motivated, talented students who all enjoy math! ATDP also offers financial aid. Both ATDP and EPGY have great websites. Maybe have a look. math mom

Middle Schools with a strong math/science department

February 2003

I would like recommendations for East Bay middle schools that have excellent math and science depts., and offer advanced classes in these areas for gifted children.

Recommendations received:

  • Albany Middle School
  • Bentley
  • Black Pine Circle
  • King Middle School (2)
  • Longfellow Middle School

    May 2001

    My daughter is doing very well in 6th grade math and would like to move on to algebra rather than taking 7th grade math next year. Have other parents had this experience? How did it work out?


    I'm not sure I understand your question. But if your child is being offered honors algebra as opposed to regular algebra, I'd look at it closely. Secondhand observation of one friend of my child's showed that it was very hard. If it's a choice between pre-algebra and algebra, and your child's teacher feels comfortable with that, that course seemed appropriate for my child who had to work hard but not too hard. Also, drop a line to Neil Smith and ask him for a name of a 7th grade math teacher to talk to. He's very responsive. My student has Ms. Mukerjee (sp?) who is very enthusiastic. You might want to talk to her.
    Regarding a 7th grader skipping 7th grade math and doing 8th grade algebra. My daughter, now in 9th grade at BHS, did algebra in 7th grade (geometry in 8th and now algebra 2 in 9th). At this point I feel it was the right thing for her, and she agrees. She is alittle nervous about the progression and taking higher levels in the next few years as her other classes become more complicated and the work load increases dramatically (with Latin and other AP possibilities). BUT--she would have been very bored and I wondered if she would have begun to lose interest in math. She has one of the most difficult math teachers and does work hard but is doing quite well. I think one has to look ahead to the path your child would be on and think about the rest of her/his course load. Also going to BHS in 8th grade for math was workable because she went with a small cohort group from Willard so the bus issue, being on campus, etc was an ok adjustment for her.I don't like pushing kids, particularly teens who have so much to struggle with as they grow, but I think in our case it was a good decision. Think about your child as a whole and all the other factors. Good luck. Karen
    I am a ninth grader at Berkeley High. I skipped up to Algebra in seventh grade. It was difficult to be in a class where I was the youngest, but once I was used to it, I did OK in the class, although sometimes it was a struggle. I would recommend Algebra if your child is good at picking up new concepts very quickly and doesn't have social issues about being in a class with all eighth graders.
    My daughter skipped 7th grade math last year and took Algebra. This year she's taking Honors Geometry early in the day at Berkeley High, then returning to King Middle School for the rest of her classes. She's doing well now, but there were two problems in the 7th grade:

    1) At first, she had to do a lot of catching up, because every one else had pre-Algebra and she hadn't - learning new terminology and such. That settled down after a while.

    2) At the end of the year, she earned a B, which did not qualify her to take Geometry at Berkeley High. (She needed an A.) In order to qualify, she had to take a scheduled test at Berkeley High, which she did well on, so she got to take Geometry.

    The problem is, that if she had not passed the test, we were told she would have to take Algebra all over again in eighth grade, because Math is required and King doesn't have anything more advanced to offer. That would have been embarrassing and disappointing for my daughter, and I fear it would have turned her off to math. I question whether it's a good idea to take Algebra in 7th grade if you run the risk of doing well and still having to take the entire year over again. Beverly


    Mathematically-gifted 8-year-old

    Sept 1999

    I need advice about resources for mathematically gifted children. My son, age 8, lives and breathes math. At age 4, he could count to 120 by by 6's, convert feet to inches, and determined that my husband, then age 40-1/4, was "37 and 13 quarters." Last week, he calculated that "10 to the google seconds is 10 to the 86th millennia" (or something like that). My husband tells me that is roughly right; I confess it is a bit beyond me. My son is bored silly in school, and I am wondering: (1) what can I legitimately expect (demand?) of the public school district in the way of enrichment; and (2) what resources are there outside the school system for a kid like this? Thanks for any input.


    Stanford offers a program for gifted youth. Take look at their website for detailed information. http://www-epgy.stanford.edu/
    I think enrichment programs are at the discretion of the school district. You need to contact the principal or district and ask them about testing your child and what programs are available. Someone told me that all school districts are given money from the state to establish programs for "gifted" students.

    Look at the following web site: http://www.gtworld.org/index.html. They have a mailing list which may be able to give you more details.

    The state of California's Education Code is at the web site below. See Chapter 8. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.html/edc_table_of_contents.html Good luck.


    Times Tables -- when?

    March 1998

    At what age do kids learn their times tables these days? Or maybe I should ask, at what age should they know them? I know some kids in 5th and 6th grade who have been taught to count on their fingers, and that's where they're still at. I'm shocked, but maybe for no good reason? Carol


    Re: Times tables - my son is in the 3rd grade at LeConte Elementary here in Berkeley and he is learning multiplication, although they do not seem to be learning the times tables per se. I distinctly remember learning them myself in the 4th grade. I'm toying with the idea of teaching him the times tables this summer, as a fun thing to do in the car. Chanting the times tables is almost the same as chanting a poem, to me. Dianna
    At school my daughter learned the times tables (through ten) in third grade. At the beginning of fourth grade they reviewed the times tables and extended them through 12. (It's possible they began the process during second grade, but I don't remember.) Susan
    Our kids were drilled in facts (+,-,x, division) in 4th grade. They had 1 page sheets of each type which they kept testing themselves on to get their time down (and kept graphs of their progress.) Barbara
    Regarding learning multiplication tables. Mastery (memorization) in 3rd grade with review in 4th grade. It was a class/home project to learn addition and multiplication math facts in third grade. Kathryn
    My son is in the 5th grade and he is not very familiar with the multiplication tables yet although he does know it. He still needs to think a little (and I'm sure do some adding in his head) on it. However, I learned the multiplication tables in Taiwan as a first grader and was definitely able to give the full multiplication table (up to 9's) by the end of 3rd grade. Since I was definitely anywhere among the top of my class then, I know that children are "capable" of knowing it by start of 4th grade.

    I think the educational system here tries to avoid memorization (maybe a little too much in my opinion). I think at some point, the kids just have to use memorization/repetition to memorize things. We try to do alot of math with our son at home. We do try to help him to do some repetition in writing the multiplication tables and continue to review with him. At the same time, we try to let him use it on a daily basis whenever we can such as grocery shopping at the local store, or even when he buys candy with his own money. Diane


    Like Diane, I learned my times tables (up to 9's) at age 6. My mom and I just sat down together and chanted them, with a little cheat sheet with nine columns of decreasing length, organized by "1 x _", "2 x _", etc, to "9 x 9". The memorization certainly didn't hurt my later learning of the concepts behind multiplication; in fact they probably helped me see the patterns that "times-ing" makes, better than I would have otherwise . (I remember little diagrams with squares made out of dots; and also noticing how there were nine "1 x _" facts, eight "2 x _" facts, and later I realized this had something to do with commutativity....) I think it's not a bad thing to have these facts in your head without having to punch them into a calculator; this way you're better able to tell when a typo or whatever has been made and the "output" is way off in the wrong neighborhood. Not that memorization solves everything... later my father tried to teach me algebra by rote, which is kind of inappropriate. But for the times tables early memorization really does a good job. Joyce
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