Berkeley Parents Network: BHS Small Schools and Math

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BHS Small Schools and Math

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IMP Math in BHS Small Schools
Entering freshman likes CAS, but what about IMP math?
More Advice about Small Schools

IMP Math in BHS Small Schools

Feb 2009

Re: Entering freshman confused about AC vs. international program
Small schools are NOT homogeneous despite the commentary so far in this newsletter and the academics vary according to the teacher as in ANY BHS school program. In his small school, my son took honors option for IMP Math (next year there will be a formally UC-recognized Honors IMP course for 9th graders, had a 12 page research paper in history for NINTH grade, all of his English/History teachers also offered an honors option (more, deeper work assignments) and he took AP English and AP Calculus as a senior [... ] (Editor) see above link for the rest of this posting.

I'd like to correct a statement by Karen H about IMP2 Honors. She said, ''Next year there will be a formally UC-recognized Honors IMP course for ninth graders.'' This is incorrect. I went to the UC website: http://www.ucop.edu/a-gGuide/ag/a-g/honors.html

It clearly states:

''3. Honors level courses must be designed for 11th and 12th graders who have already completed foundation work in the subject area. Ninth and tenth grade level high school courses that schools might designate as ''honors'' do not meet the UC honors level requirement and therefore are not granted special ''honors'' credit by the University.''

and

''c. Mathematics. UC-approved honors level courses in mathematics must be at the mathematical analysis (pre-calculus) level or above.''

There is lots more information on that page.

Also, last year about 140 or 150 BHS students took the IMP 2 standards test and only 5 tested proficient or above. In 8th grade, our family was strongly warned to stay away from IMP because for many kids, it makes learning math harder. I don't know if BHS or the Superintendent is mandating an evaluation of the IMP program or not but it sure looks like they should. The regular honors math program at BHS is pretty strong even if it isn't (and cannot be) a UC-recognized Honors class. Every kid I know who is in it says it is very challenging. Parent of a sophomore at BHS

The School Board adopted an honors IMP2 class at a recent meeting. The class IS UC eligible as an a-g class. By the way, the Integrated Math standardized test is based upon a different curriculum than BHS's Interactive Math Program which makes it difficult to use the results of that test to measure IMP student's progress (this is according to a presentation made at the Board). The challenge (and the excitement) for students is that IMP is based upon the WHY of the math. Its project (ie. problem solving) based rather than formula based math learning. Its a way of approaching math that really works for many students - those that are more conceptual and/or intuitive in their thought processes (for example, the type of student that ''did better'' in Geometry rather than Algebra), the student that learns more ''hands on'', and the student that is looking to extend/deepen their understanding of math as a tool (interested in being an engineer or scientist). This is very different than the math that most of us grew up with and may feel more comfortable with. Karen H.

A recent post about small schools states that their IMP math program ''is based upon the WHY of the math.'' The post explains that this math program is project based rather than formula based math learning, and proposes that this will prepare students for careers in engineering or science. It is extremely unlikely that a high school student who fails to achieve a score of proficient or above in the California standardized math test will be able to pass the Professional Engineering examination. An aspiring engineer must pass this test in order to practice engineering in California. The Professional Engineering examination is not based upon the WHY of the math. Once again the California Standardized Test (CST) math performance of the small schools at Berkeley High is far below the rest of the school. In 2008, the percentage of small school students who scored proficient or above on CST math ranged from 2%-20%. The remainder of the school population that scored proficient or above on CST math was 31-32%. This data was presented to the School Board at their 1/14/09 meeting. Maureen

Regarding the message from Karen H. about IMP math at Berkeley High. It may ''really work'' for lots of students, but what about the kids it doesn't work for? My two bright boys, now in their 20's, were not allowed to take traditional math courses at BHS because of their sub-par performance on the middle school exam. So they flunked their way through all their project-based ''collaborative'' math classes because the group learning and ''why'' approach did not work for them. These classes were pitched to the ''kids who don't like math'' as the math dept. head told me, and my kids definitely did learn to not like math. I learned a lot about pleading with math dept. heads, and paying for private tutors and summer catch-up classes. In the end, the son who went to college was unprepared for anything except for the easiest popular culture type classes. The other son did not finish high school. I'm a mom with an advanced engineering degree, married to an engineer, and I expected my kids to at least have the option of choosing the sciences or engineering in college, but that was all decided for them by freshman year in high school. GO

Entering freshman likes CAS, but what about IMP math?

Feb 2008

Hi--our 8th grader at a small independent school is heading for Berkeley High next fall-- we've really appreciated the thoughtful posts and discussions on BPN, and think a small school would be good to ease our son's transition (plus he's not the self-directed academic powerhouse type...)--We're being told (by two sources at the school)that kids in CAS or CPA can ONLY take IMP math--is that really true? Is there any way around it? Our son wouldn't be aiming at honors math, but he's done ok in algebra, and I hear worrisome things about IMP math and SAT's etc....so thought regular geometry would be a better placement...?

Would really appreciate input--plus any recent updates on small schools--eg impact of change in CAS director, update on AHA classroom discipline issues (report from friend on problems from freshman 2006 year) etc etc. It is so hard to get an accurate sense from outside the system... optimistic but concerned mom

Yes, in order to focus, CP Academy and CAS are only teaching IMP (with a greater success than when they were teaching both!). My senior took the IMP sequence and is now in AP Calculus where he received an A this semester. The main difference between IMP Math and ''traditional'' math is that IMP is problem-based and integrates various types of math such as algebra and trigonometry as part of the solution to the problem. So for example, the ''problem'' (this would be an entire unit) may be planning for a successful rocket launch to the moon and the students are asked to figure out the various variables and then ''solve the problem'' by determining route (trigonometry), speed, fuel requirements (algebra),etc. In order to solve the problem, the students learn the math needed so its really an applied math type of course (and there is usually more than one way to solve a problem so understanding the concepts behind the math is very important). Some students may need some practice with how the SAT presents problems (not as experienced with drill type work) BUT this isn't a CONTENT question, merely a test taking issue. AND for students that aren't as math oriented as others, the conceptual way that IMP approaches math can make math more interesting and relevant - and for those that ARE strong in math it is great preparation for engineering, applied physics, etc. If you have any questions, you really should talk to Matt Bremer. He is an IMP Math teacher at BHS and one of the primary folks that developed the nationwide IMP curriculum. There is ALOT of misinformation about IMP. I've heard parents say that IMP isn't college math (yes, it fulfills the CSU/UC requirement), doesn't lead to higher math (students completing IMP 4 are ready to take regular or AP Calculus), etc. NONE of these widely held beliefs are true and unfortunately some of the BHS and middle school counselors are perpetuating these myths. Quite frankly, IMP is how math SHOULD be taught (though I do believe that IMP requires really good teachers to really work - but as a group, the IMP teachers ARE very good). anonymous

Both CAS and CPA offer only IMP math. If your child is in CAS or CPA, this is not something you can get around. There is a lot of research on IMP. The website www.mathimp.org is a great resource and also includes sections designed to inform parents and students. There is no evidence that IMP students do worse than other students on the SAT.

I can speak for CP Academy and say that we have found that high skilled students are challenged by the IMP curriculum, because of it's heavy reliance on real world problem solving which introduces math topics as they are needed. We have also found that the success rate for all students in math has been remarkable with the IMP curriculum, and that students who start out BHS behind in math skills perform far better with the IMP curriculum than they did when we offered the CPM sequence of Geometry, Algebra II and Math Analysis. Because we start our all our freshmen at the IMP2 level, all of our students have the ability to take four years of math in our program, including AP calculus, if they so desire. Annie

In answer to the questions raised about CAS... You're right... all CAS and CPA kids do take IMP. In fact. SSJE kids do, too. As of now, AHA students take math in the big school. We're proud of the education kids get in IMP; their standardized test scores are shown to be equal or higher than test scores earned by kids who take traditional math classes and the IMP approach to teaching math, which emphasize collaboration between students and real-world problem solving, aligns nicely with CAS's philosophy toward education overall. (I encourage you to visit the IMP website to learn more: http://www.mathimp.org/)

Finally, I would love to communicate directly with members of the community about CAS. We are proud of our small school and I'd be happy to share an overview of some of the exciting things that we're doing and to answer questions. If you'd like to learn more, please drop me an email. Sincerely, Phil Halpern CAS

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