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Out of District Transfers to Berkeley High

Berkeley Parents Network > Reviews > K-12 Schools > Berkeley Public Schools > Berkeley High School > Out of District Transfers to Berkeley High



Work at UC Berkeley - how likely is it our child can get into BHS?

Oct 2006

Both my husband and I are on the faculty at UC Berkeley -- have been for years. Our child will be entering high school next year. We would like her to go to Berkeley High School -- but we do not live in Berkeley, and we would prefer not to go through the rigamarole of lying about our residence. (I guess we COULD rent a room in Berkeley and it would still be cheaper than private school.)

I called the school district, and they said that we could apply to get our child in -- but that it was decided on a case-by-case basis and there were no guaranties. I asked how likely it would be -- given that we both worked for UC Berkeley -- and the woman who answered the phone said it was a ''good possibility.'' But she is not the one who makes the decisions.

Here's my question. Has anybody had experience with this? How likely IS it that we can get our child into BHS on this basis?

Thank you
anon for now


I have worked at UCB for 30 years & was unable to get my daughter into BHS as a transfer. I filled out all the forms, was denied, appealed the denial and my appeal was turned down. I talked to the superintendent who told me that my daugter's class (current 11th grade) was so large that no one was allowed to transfer in except under the most extreme circumstances. I think alot depends on the size of the class. For her class they aren't even keeping a waiting list.
Gave Up
We had a similar situation as yours in fall 2006 (child is now a 9th grader). BHS said if push came to shove, we would have a slight priority due to working in Berkeley. However, this is more true if your kids are younger than middle school. Something called the ''Allen Act'' gives you priority if you have younger kids and want to send them to school in the city you work in, but doesn't really help middle school onwards (when kids are assumed to be more self sufficient and independent). Although our home district released us, no problem (that is step 1 of the process) BHS couldn't admit us because they were so over enrolled. So, I suggest that you have a back up plan incase it doesn't work. You probably won't find out until well in the summer if you have been accepted or not. I didn't think using someone else's address was a good idea, so we didn't pursue BHS any further after we received our denial notice. It may be a year to year thing depending on enrollement, so it doesn't hurt to try! Hope that helps, and good luck!
been there, done that
My understanding is that there is a state law, basically called a convenience law, that allows families working in Berkeley, or any other city, to enroll their children in schools in the district they work in, if there is room in the school. I can't imagine BHS wouldn't have room!
BHS parent
Two thoughts on the out of city BHS enrollment.

First, some school districts have a provision to allow enrollment of family members of business operators within the city. [The logic behind this is the city benefits from the parent's business operations.] I am not sure about Berkeley. Anyway, you might work with this approach, which may need a couple of connections at the district office.

Second, this may be a tough sell, as I've seen a family from Lafayette have to rent an apartment in Berkeley to get the residency requirement nailed down for their son, who was a super-star, bringing a ton to the school's music program. Even all his talent did not influence the decision process. The message here is that ''talent'' is not a route that will likely work.

Good luck
anon


Oakland resident attending Berkeley High

Oct 2005

Has anyone successfully achieved an interdistrict transfer to Berkeley High? We are Oakland residents, but my son is very interested in transferring to Berkeley High. Before we spend alot of time looking at Berkeley High, I'd like to know whether it is possible to get an interdistrict transfer. The only information I received from Berkeley is that he needs to get released from the Oakland School District and then apply to be accepted to the Berkeley School District. Has anyone gone through this process, or attempted it? How difficult is it to get released from Oakland and then accepted to Berkeley? Are there any ''tricks'' to the process? Lori


I tried to get my daughter released from Oakland to attend either Campolindo or Acalanes High Schools, on the basis that they offer more AP courses and German. The request was denied on the basis that Oakland offers AP courses. You could try to fight it, but my take is that they are so obstructionist it would be extremely difficult.

I work in Berkeley - can my 8th grader go to BHS?

Nov 2004

We don't live in Berkeley but my business is in Berkeley. We're thinking about BHS as a possibility for our 8th grader. Any first hand info on who to contact regarding transfers? How easy is it? What criteria are priorities? Thanks for any info.
can't put it off any more


My son transferred out of Albany to Berkeley in freshman year. What you must do is obtain an Interdistrict Transfer form from your child's current school, complete it, then file it with Berkeley High's administration. I don't recall the deadlines but, if you're shooting for next fall, you're probably fine. You will have to petition for the transfer every year (BHS may remind you to do so, it may not). My son has really enjoyed the BHS community, and the effort was well worth it for him.
BHS or Bust
To the parent who is considering an inter-district transfer to Berkeley High for a current 8th grader: We tried this last year for our son, based on his dad's employment in Berkeley (the ''Allen Act''). We got released from Oakland, but were not accepted by Berkeley, despite our early application, his high grades and our persistent follow-up. The public position was that absolutely no inter-district transfers were going to be allowed, due to over-crowdedness. We even know a senior whose inter-district transfer was revoked after 3 years at BHS. Unless Berkeley's posture has changed, it seems the only way to get into BHS it is to lie about your address, which we were not comfortable doing, or maybe some incredible personal connection. On the bright side, our son is happy at Oakland Tech., as is that senior, and we're happy with Tech too.
Carol
There is no doubt that Berkeley High is over-crowded. However, a former OUSD superintendant, who should know I suppose, told me personally that Berkeley's policy of not accepting transfers from the two large neighboring districts is designed to exclude a particular race. Other scuttlebut--this in regard to transferees from Richmond--is that students seek to transfer to Berkeley because the kids there have more money to invest in drugs (and, I suppose, the girls have more earning potential). BHS parent
The issue of interdistrict transfers to Berkeley High School is admittedly very complicated and elicits strong opinions on all sides of the question. But, regardless of ones opinions on the issue, I think we need to be really careful before repeating ''scuttlebut'' (i.e. unsubstantiated rumors) that are slanderous to large numbers of students and their families. I refer to the statement made by a ''BHS parent'' in this newsletter that Richmond students seek to transfer to BHS ''because the kids there have more money to invest in drugs'' and ''I suppose the girls have more earning potential''.

Having had 2 children graduate from BHS (the last one in June '04) I can state from my personal experience that Richmond students make the decision to transfer to BHS for the SAME REASONS that students from Albany, Kensington, El Cerrito and Oakland do. For most students, and their families, it is the belief that they will get a better education at BHS (for a myriad of reasons). Lori


The previous message attributing to an unnamed Oakland schools official the charge that Berkeley High's resistance to transfers is racially motivated seems entirely out of bounds. First, any claim about racism (including the innuendo about drugs and prostitution) should be based on something more than such a speculative and unattributed claim. Why would an unnamed Oakland schools official be a reliable source about an accusation about a Berkeley school? Basing a charge of racism on speculation and rumor does not do credit to the fight against racism that is real and can be proven. Second, who ever wrote the letter (allegedly a BHS parent) obviously has not been to Berkeley High where teachers and students are struggling with overcrowded and overenrolled classes (my son has over 40 in his english class and his biology class only obtained enough text books to distribute to students this November). Please, lets stick to the facts--it is hard enough to deal with the real problems of race in all our schools. BHS parent
this in regard to transferees from Richmond--is that students seek to transfer to Berkeley because the kids there have more money to invest in drugs (and, I suppose, the girls have more earning potential). I object to this objectification of young women in a supposedly supportive forum and that it's gratuitous gossip and attributed to men of power in the community and demeans black people. Please, let's not go there in the future. What was the purpose of this posting? Jill
I'm surprised such offensive material is posted in this newsletter. Richmond students seek transfers to BHS because the WCCUSD does not provide acceptable high schools to most of its residents. To imply that Richmond transfers are all drug dealers and pimps perpetuates racial profiling and stereotyping at its worse. anonymous
The letter about inter-district transfers to BHS was out of line, and designed to incite. That the writer refers to his/her own information as scuttlebutt and an off the record conversation makes printing it a bit questionable. This isn't a criticism of you guys, I think you're great -- its an attempt to register my support for a higher community standard. Rumors that demean students of color AND administrators of no color simultaneously -- and do so anonymously -- are beyond contempt. Heather
Note from moderator: Thanks to all of you who responded to the posting about interdistrict transfers. I apologize for not returning it to the poster so that it would adhere to our newsletter rules. These comments are good reminders to all of us! --Sally Rules for the Newsletter

Out-of-district Transfers and Large Class Size

1999

I'd like the school board to take a position opposing widespread acceptance of out of district transfers. Many of our schools appear overcrowded--particularly the High School. Data is suspiciously hard to come by, but I have the impression that much overcrowding is due to a district policy to accept out of district transfers. One (probably wild overestimate) floating around is that 30% of the high school students are from out of the district.

At the same time, Berkeley school administrators appear to grudgingly accept, wink at, or even favor out of District transfers because of associated financial benefits. The State pays some money to schools on the basis of school population. So overcrowded schools get more State funds than undercrowded schools.

Possibly, school administrators benefit in the short run from these funds, however it seems clear that in the long run our students and teachers generally suffer from overcrowding.

It seems crazy not to make people running for the school board take a stand on this issue. They (and not parents) are in a posistion to change school policy toward district transfers. Make school board candidates take a stand on this issue!

Larry


I think it is important to first get the statistics on out of district transfers in terms of numbers, performance etc. Perhaps many the rumored out of district students aren't official and may actually drain BHS of monies in terms of average daily attendance, etc. My son is an "official" out of district transfer as opposed to the many students who apparently do not go thorough district channels(i.e. release from his home district and acceptance into Berkeley USD.) There are many hoops to go through to do it officially. My son was welcomed to enter BHS, but we were initially warned that acceptance wasn't a sure thing and he had initially registered as a freshman at his home school. Furthermore, he must reapply each year for the transfer. (BUSD can refuse or revoke these transfers because of truancy, behavior problems or poor academic performance. Thus, the transfer students are under scrutiny and perhaps held to a higher standard than non-transfer students. ) I know other students who have also gone through official channels. They are bright, committed students who from the feedback I get, are well-received by the teachers. Thus, I think it is important to get the facts and numbers. These official students may be far from a drain to BHS, but really an enhancement in terms of the overall program of BHS. Anonymous
I would like to respond to the item about admitting students from outside the district. I agree, I know that the district gets funds for each students enrolled, so they encourgage out of district transfers. Which seems strange to me, when their are so many problem for people getting their children into the schools of their choice. Unfortunately, many neighboring districts have terrible schools. I speak from the vantage point of a past teacher in the district and a mother of children in the public schools. I feel that the overcrowding and discipline problems in the classrooms may be lessened by not taking in some of these kids. But schools should have that priority already. I have no idea if administraters can freely "send" out of district kids back to their "home" districts. I know that teachers say things like, XXX is out of district and a problem and we should send him /her back. This should be studied, but it is all confidential info so it would have to happen "in house." So then, it would be a situation where to cut out of district transfers, it would cut our financial resources , creating a double edged sword. I would hope administrators could and do send back problem students. It is amazing how many students in schools are without a working phone contact number and these are the children with problems. Especially at the Jr. High and High School levels, teachers and administrators are so over-stressed and overworked, just dealing with their daily work load, that these issues are often overlooked in the daily business of educating every one, unless the student does something very blatant. An administrators and teachers have a tough time dealing with the tough parents these tough kids come from.

anonymous


I still don't get the economics of out of district transfers. I have heard estimates that as many as one third of the students at Berkeley High are either legal transfers or illegal transfers, and my random experience meeting my kid's friends bears this out. In the case of legal transfers, I have heard that the district gets $5,000 per student. Is this in ADDITION to the money the state normally reimburses school districts per student or is this just a transfer of funds from one district to another? The difference is important because most costs associated with education are variable costs. If Berkeley High went from 3500 students to 2500 students revenue would go down, but expenses should go equally down (assuming that most costs are direct costs for education -- and if they aren't then we have another set of problems).

If the $5,000 is ADDITIONAL revenue then the district should be doing everything in its power to identify the illegal transfers and get them to become legal. If it is just a transfer of money from one district to another then the district should be doing everything in its power to identify the illegal transfers and get them out.

Now we, the good citizens of Berkeley, have also chosen to tax ourselves because we support the public education system and what it means to our future. We tax ourselves to increase and improve the infrastructure (fixed costs) and reduce class size (variable costs). Transfers, both legal and illegal, take advantage of our situation by taking up space in our classrooms and being taught by our subsidized teachers. If the average person in Berkeley pays an additional $500 per year in taxes for schools then transfers should have to pay to reimburse the taxpayers of Berkeley. That just seems fair. People would pay a lot more to go to a private school.

Paul


I would like to hear from BUSD about the transfer situation. I would agree with Paul Litsky that out of district students should reimburse us for all the extra tax we impose on ourselves. We WANT to pay it, but we expect that to be shared by all students/parents using our school system. Joyce
I visited with Jack McLaughlin yesterday to discuss interdistrict transfers and crowding at Berkeley High. His position, and, I gather, the official position of the school district, is the following:

1. Berkeley High is not overcrowded. (Student population is lower than in previous years).

2. Interdistrict transfers have not increased in recent years. Legal transfers are well under 10%. Illegal transfers are probably no higher now than in previous years. The school is making continued efforts to control such transfers.

3. Legal transfers add $5,000 each, which more than covers the cost of transfers.

All three conclusions (if correct) are reassuring and deserve to be more widely advertised. I'd like additional confirmation, insight from other parents.

Larry


I'm copying the teens list so they can continue the dialog on this topic in the newsletter.

Dear Larry,

I appreciate the fact that you took the trouble to discuss these issues with Jack McLaughlin and shared this information. Even though this is reassuring, I'm still not certain that there isn't a problem at BHS due to out-of-district transfers.

1. Even if the student population IS lower, that doesn't mean the school isn't overcrowded. I'd like to know if it IS overcrowded; in other words, how many students are there in the classes? Is there a BUSD policy on class size for the high school as there is for the elementary and middle schools? Do the classes exceed that? Are there enough chairs and books? Are the classes so large that students don't get enough attention from the teacher or opportunities for discussion of the material?

It would be good to get candid answers from BHS teachers, students and the principal and parents who know what the situation is at BHS.

2. Saying there are probably no more illegal students than in previous years doesn't diminish the harm this situation does to the school and our community. How do we know there aren't more than in previous years if we don't know how many there are or who they are?

Illegal out-of-district students harm BHS in several ways:
a. They take space that could go to legal transfers, who bring in $5,000 each! That's a lot of money for the school to be losing each year.
b. They make the huge BHS school population even larger. I'm an 8th grade parent who is concerned about the huge size of the school.
c. Tolerating this situation gives the message to our kids, both legal and illegal, that the adults in charge can't control the learning environment. It says to them "illegal and cheating is okay if you can get away with it"-- a difficult thing for kids or anyone to live with.
d. The BUSD can control the number of legal transfers, adjusting that number if necessary. But illegal transfers are a group that can't be controlled or even identified. How can the BUSD administer the school properly in light of this situation ?

I'd like to know what is being done about illegal transfers, and what other districts have effectively done that we could try.

Cynthia


Is it correct that the District "loses" any money when out of district children attend BHS without obtaining a formal transfer? I am assuming this is not accurate; that these students have an address, register and attend the school and are included in the school's census which is used to calculate the state money paid to the district. I don't see how these students bring in any less money than students who live in the district or students who have legal transfers. That doesn't mean that the other issues of overcrowding, etc shouldn't be addressed. Liz
In response to Larry Dale's information from Jack McLaughlin:

1. Berkeley High is not overcrowded. (Student population is lower than in previous years).

I question the logic of this statement. I accept that the population this year is lower than previous years, but it does not follow that BHS is not overcrowded. I think 'overcrowded' needs to be defined. I understand that BHS is short of resources (from books to counselors). If we cannot supply our students with books, the school is overcrowded. Would we be able to address the lunch problems if we had 20% fewer students? What if we had 30% fewer students? Could we keep track of those failing? Could we follow up on truancies better if there were 300 fewer students? 500 fewer students?

2. Interdistrict transfers have not increased in recent years. Legal transfers are well under 10%. Illegal transfers are probably no higher now than in previous years. The school is making continued efforts to control such transfers.

How do we know that inter-district transfers have not increased? We do not know that illegal transfers are higher. "Probably no higher" is not enough information to come to the conclusion that the transfers have not increased. For argument sake, let's assume that they have not increased, does this mean that they are not too high? We cannot reach that conclusion without definite data. Guessing is not enough!

3. Legal transfers add $5,000 each, which more than covers the cost of transfers.

What about illegal transfers? Do we know how many there are? What costs are covered by the transfers? Do they cover the cost of buildings? Do they cover the cost of counselors? Do they cover the extra cost of attracting quality teachers?

Angela


I find the whole discussion on overcrowding at BHS is missing the point. Why should parents be forced to send their child to a school that doesn't suit them just because that's where they live? If parents are sending their children long distances to another school they probably have good reasons. Aren't we all on the same side here? If the funding for schools came from the state instead of locally, the inter-district transfer issue wouldn't have any financial basis at all. The real query is why there is only one high school in Berkeley when it is too large to be manageable? fiona
I appreciated reading Cynthia's comments on overcrowding and out of district transfers @ BHS. You made some good points. This is also something about which I am concerned and have begun working on finding out the class size at the school. It would be great if you would email your comments to Chris Lim, the associate superintendent, and Joaquin Rivera, president of the school board. I have been communicating with both of them about the class size issue, however, unfortunately, they seem to need constant reminders that there is parental concern about these issues and might need a reminder. Chris Lim, Joaquin Rivera
Toby
The money the BUSD receives per student (the $5,000) does not depend on whether the student who lives outside Berkeley has an official inter-district permit. It does depend, however, on the student's attendance (as does the money for students who live in Berkeley). The district receives full funding for any student who attends BHS for the full 180 days of the school year. It receives less money for any student who misses one or more days. There is a point at which providing teachers for the student costs more than the district receives for the student.

Many teachers believe, whether rightly or wrongly, that illegal out-of-district students are the most likely to be absent too much because we cannot call their parents.

Another relevant factor is that some of the costs of running BHS are fixed, no matter how many students there are (within reason). The principal, vice-principals, secretaries, custodians, etc. are there whether BHS has 2800 students or 3500. On the other hand, each approximately 30 students require that one more teacher be hired but they bring in $150,000 in income. Since it does not cost $150,000 to pay the teacher, the excess income can be used for other things (like paying McLaughlin's salary or buying books for the library.

For most teachers (or at least I think it's for most), the major issue about illegal out-of-district students is that it is harder to deal with problems because we can rarely contact their families. There are good reasons why they cannot be easily identified < unless they call attention to themselves through their actions, we have no reason to suspect improper status and it takes precious time to prove out-of-district residence and time co0sts money. Thus, only the most egregious cases tend to be investigated. Hope this helps.

Judy (BHS teacher)


Those who complain about out-of-district transfers may not realize what sort of student has parents who make the effort to improve, even marginally, their child's education. For example: Our daughter attended elementary school in Berkeley based on one parent's employment at U.C.B. After attending a private middle school (on full scholarship), she will return to Berkeley for high school. She tests in the 98th-99th percentiles in SAT9 subjects. We appreciate the opportunity that interdistrict transfer presents to her. On the other hand, she (and we) do more to improve the Berkeley schools, academically and behaviorally, than they do for us.
For four years the Parents Art Support Network at Berkeley High was managed by an out-of-district parent. The current editor of the PTSA newsletter, is an out-of-district parent as is the manager of the BHS e-tree. Cutting down on out-of-district students would eliminate those families who have legally transferred to the school and care enough to support the institution. Remaining would be students who have arrived through deceptive means. However, it is important we note that even illegal transfers are at Berkeley High School because they WANT to be and many of them care about the school contributing greatly to our student body.

Each student, whether legal or illegal, brings state money to the BUSD coffers. BSEP, however, which supplements the district budget, comes from a local parcel tax. The tax raises a finite amount annually. The more students we have the more diluted BSEP is. Even here though, some out-of-district parents have elected to contribute directly to the BSEP funds the amount they would have been taxed had they resided in Berkeley.

A Final Note. Much to-do has been made over the recently published "Class Dismissed." It the story of three students from the BHS class of 2000 supplemented with research the author has found. Some of the author's facts are very interesting some are generalizations based on hearsay and prejudice. Be that as it may, not one of the three subjects on which the author concentrated lived in Berkeley. One came from Oakland, one from Alameda and the third from Richmond. We should look at the number of students who want to attend our school and be honored--BHS is obviously doing many things right.


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