Out of District Transfers to Berkeley High
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Out of District Transfers to Berkeley High
Oct 2006
Both my husband and I are on the faculty at UC Berkeley --
have been for years. Our child will be entering high school
next year. We would like her to go to Berkeley High School
-- but we do not live in Berkeley, and we would prefer not
to go through the rigamarole of lying about our residence.
(I guess we COULD rent a room in Berkeley and it would still
be cheaper than private school.)
I called the school district, and they said that we could
apply to get our child in -- but that it was decided on a
case-by-case basis and there were no guaranties. I asked
how likely it would be -- given that we both worked for UC
Berkeley -- and the woman who answered the phone said it was
a ''good possibility.'' But she is not the one who makes the
decisions.
Here's my question. Has anybody had experience with this?
How likely IS it that we can get our child into BHS on this
basis?
Thank you
anon for now
I have worked at UCB for 30 years & was unable to get my
daughter into BHS as a transfer. I filled out all the
forms, was denied, appealed the denial and my appeal was
turned down. I talked to the superintendent who told me
that my daugter's class (current 11th grade) was so large
that no one was allowed to transfer in except under the
most extreme circumstances. I think alot depends on the
size of the class. For her class they aren't even keeping
a waiting list.
Gave Up
We had a similar situation as yours in fall 2006 (child is
now a 9th grader). BHS said if push came to shove, we
would have a slight priority due to working in Berkeley.
However, this is more true if your kids are younger than
middle school. Something called the ''Allen Act'' gives you
priority if you have younger kids and want to send them to
school in the city you work in, but doesn't really help
middle school onwards (when kids are assumed to be more
self sufficient and independent). Although our home
district released us, no problem (that is step 1 of the
process) BHS couldn't admit us because they were so over
enrolled. So, I suggest that you have a back up plan
incase it doesn't work. You probably won't find out until
well in the summer if you have been accepted or not. I
didn't think using someone else's address was a good idea,
so we didn't pursue BHS any further after we received our
denial notice. It may be a year to year thing depending on
enrollement, so it doesn't hurt to try! Hope that helps,
and good luck!
been there, done that
My understanding is that there is a state law, basically
called a convenience law, that allows families working in
Berkeley, or any other city, to enroll their children in
schools in the district they work in, if there is room in
the school. I can't imagine BHS wouldn't have room!
BHS parent
Two thoughts on the out of city BHS enrollment.
First, some school districts have a provision to allow
enrollment of family members of business operators within
the city. [The logic behind this is the city benefits from
the parent's business operations.] I am not sure about
Berkeley. Anyway, you might work with this approach, which
may need a couple of connections at the district office.
Second, this may be a tough sell, as I've seen a family from
Lafayette have to rent an apartment in Berkeley to get the
residency requirement nailed down for their son, who was a
super-star, bringing a ton to the school's music program.
Even all his talent did not influence the decision process.
The message here is that ''talent'' is not a route that will
likely work.
Good luck
anon
Oct 2005
Has anyone successfully achieved an interdistrict transfer to
Berkeley High? We are Oakland residents, but my son is very
interested in transferring to Berkeley High. Before we spend
alot of time looking at Berkeley High, I'd like to know whether
it is possible to get an interdistrict transfer. The only
information I received from Berkeley is that he needs to get
released from the Oakland School District and then apply to be
accepted to the Berkeley School District. Has anyone gone
through this process, or attempted it? How difficult is it to
get released from Oakland and then accepted to Berkeley? Are
there any ''tricks'' to the process?
Lori
I tried to get my daughter released from Oakland to attend
either Campolindo or Acalanes High Schools, on the basis that
they offer more AP courses and German. The request was denied
on the basis that Oakland offers AP courses. You could try to
fight it, but my take is that they are so obstructionist it
would be extremely difficult.
Nov 2004
We don't live in Berkeley but my business is in Berkeley.
We're thinking about BHS as a possibility for our 8th
grader. Any first hand info on who to contact regarding
transfers? How easy is it? What criteria are priorities?
Thanks for any info.
can't put it off any more
My son transferred out of Albany to Berkeley in freshman
year. What you must do is obtain an Interdistrict Transfer
form from your child's current school, complete it, then
file it with Berkeley High's administration. I don't
recall the deadlines but, if you're shooting for next
fall, you're probably fine. You will have to petition for
the transfer every year (BHS may remind you to do so, it
may not). My son has really enjoyed the BHS community, and
the effort was well worth it for him.
BHS or Bust
To the parent who is considering an inter-district transfer
to Berkeley High for a current 8th grader: We tried this
last year for our son, based on his dad's employment in
Berkeley (the ''Allen Act''). We got released from Oakland,
but were not accepted by Berkeley, despite our early
application, his high grades and our persistent follow-up.
The public position was that absolutely no inter-district
transfers were going to be allowed, due to over-crowdedness.
We even know a senior whose inter-district transfer was
revoked after 3 years at BHS. Unless Berkeley's posture has
changed, it seems the only way to get into BHS it is to lie
about your address, which we were not comfortable doing, or
maybe some incredible personal connection. On the bright
side, our son is happy at Oakland Tech., as is that senior,
and we're happy with Tech too.
Carol
There is no doubt that Berkeley High is over-crowded.
However, a former OUSD superintendant, who should know I
suppose, told me personally that Berkeley's policy of not
accepting transfers from the two large neighboring districts
is designed to exclude a particular race. Other
scuttlebut--this in regard to transferees from Richmond--is
that students seek to transfer to Berkeley because the kids
there have more money to invest in drugs (and, I suppose,
the girls have more earning potential).
BHS parent
The issue of interdistrict transfers to Berkeley High
School is admittedly very complicated and elicits strong
opinions on all sides of the question.
But, regardless of ones opinions on the issue, I think we
need to be really careful before repeating ''scuttlebut''
(i.e. unsubstantiated rumors) that are slanderous to large
numbers of students and their families. I refer to the
statement made by a ''BHS parent'' in this newsletter that
Richmond students seek to transfer to BHS ''because the kids
there have more money to invest in drugs'' and ''I suppose
the girls have more earning potential''.
Having had 2 children graduate from BHS (the last one in
June '04) I can state from my personal experience that
Richmond students make the decision to transfer to BHS for
the SAME REASONS that students from Albany, Kensington, El
Cerrito and Oakland do. For most students, and their
families, it is the belief that they will get a better
education at BHS (for a myriad of reasons).
Lori
The previous message attributing to an unnamed Oakland
schools official the charge that Berkeley High's resistance
to transfers is racially motivated seems entirely out of
bounds. First, any claim about racism (including the
innuendo about drugs and prostitution) should be based on
something more than such a speculative and unattributed
claim. Why would an unnamed Oakland schools official be a
reliable source about an accusation about a Berkeley school?
Basing a charge of racism on speculation and rumor does not
do credit to the fight against racism that is real and can
be proven. Second, who ever wrote the letter (allegedly a
BHS parent) obviously has not been to Berkeley High where
teachers and students are struggling with overcrowded and
overenrolled classes (my son has over 40 in his english
class and his biology class only obtained enough text books
to distribute to students this November).
Please, lets stick to the facts--it is hard enough to deal
with the real problems of race in all our schools.
BHS parent
this in regard to transferees from Richmond--is
that students seek to transfer to Berkeley because the kids
there have more money to invest in drugs (and, I suppose,
the girls have more earning potential).
I object to this objectification of young women in a supposedly supportive
forum and that it's gratuitous gossip and attributed to men of power in the
community and demeans black people. Please, let's not go there in the future.
What was the purpose of this posting?
Jill
I'm surprised such offensive material is posted in this
newsletter. Richmond students seek transfers to BHS
because the WCCUSD does not provide acceptable high schools
to most of its residents. To imply that Richmond transfers
are all drug dealers and pimps perpetuates racial profiling
and stereotyping at its worse.
anonymous
The letter about inter-district transfers to BHS was out of line, and
designed to incite. That the writer refers to his/her own information
as scuttlebutt and an off the record conversation makes printing it a
bit questionable.
This isn't a criticism of you guys, I think you're great -- its an
attempt to register my support for a higher community standard.
Rumors that demean students of color AND administrators of no
color simultaneously -- and do so anonymously -- are beyond
contempt.
Heather
Note from moderator: Thanks to all of you who responded to
the posting about interdistrict transfers. I apologize for
not returning it to the poster so that it would adhere to our
newsletter rules. These comments are good reminders
to all of us! --Sally
Rules for the Newsletter
1999
I'd like the school board to take a position opposing widespread
acceptance of out of district transfers. Many of our schools appear
overcrowded--particularly the High School. Data is suspiciously hard
to come by, but I have the impression that much overcrowding is due to
a district policy to accept out of district transfers. One (probably
wild overestimate) floating around is that 30% of the high school
students are from out of the district.
At the same time, Berkeley school administrators appear to grudgingly
accept, wink at, or even favor out of District transfers because of
associated financial benefits. The State pays some money to schools
on the basis of school population. So overcrowded schools get more
State funds than undercrowded schools.
Possibly, school administrators benefit in the short run from these
funds, however it seems clear that in the long run our students and
teachers generally suffer from overcrowding.
It seems crazy not to make people running for the school board take a
stand on this issue. They (and not parents) are in a posistion to
change school policy toward district transfers. Make school board
candidates take a stand on this issue!
Larry
I think it is important to first get the statistics on out of district
transfers in terms of numbers, performance etc. Perhaps many the rumored out
of district students aren't official and may actually drain BHS of monies in
terms of average daily attendance, etc. My son is an "official" out of
district transfer as opposed to the many students who apparently do not go
thorough district channels(i.e. release from his home district and acceptance
into Berkeley USD.) There are many hoops to go through to do it officially.
My son was welcomed to enter BHS, but we were initially warned that
acceptance wasn't a sure thing and he had initially registered as a freshman
at his home school. Furthermore, he must reapply each year for the transfer.
(BUSD can refuse or revoke these transfers because of truancy, behavior
problems or poor academic performance. Thus, the transfer students are
under scrutiny and perhaps held to a higher standard than non-transfer
students. ) I know other students who have also gone through official
channels. They are bright, committed students who from the feedback I get,
are well-received by the teachers. Thus, I think it is important to get the
facts and numbers. These official students may be far from a drain to BHS,
but really an enhancement in terms of the overall program of BHS.
Anonymous
I would like to respond to the item about admitting students from outside the
district.
I agree, I know that the district gets funds for each students enrolled, so
they encourgage out of district transfers. Which seems strange to me, when
their are so many problem for people getting their children into the schools
of their choice. Unfortunately, many neighboring districts have terrible
schools. I speak from the vantage point of a past teacher in the district
and a mother of children in the public schools. I feel that the overcrowding
and discipline problems in the classrooms may be lessened by not taking in
some of these kids. But schools should have that priority already. I have no
idea if administraters can freely "send" out of district kids back to their
"home" districts. I know that teachers say things like, XXX is out of
district and a problem and we should send him /her back. This should be
studied, but it is all confidential info so it would have to happen "in
house." So then, it would be a situation where to cut out of district
transfers, it would cut our financial resources
, creating a double edged sword. I would hope administrators could and do
send back problem students. It is amazing how many students in schools are
without a working phone contact number and these are the children with
problems. Especially at the Jr. High and High School levels, teachers and
administrators are so over-stressed and overworked, just dealing with their
daily work load, that these issues are often overlooked in the daily business
of educating every one, unless the student does something very blatant. An
administrators and teachers have a tough time dealing with the tough parents
these tough kids come from.
anonymous
I still don't get the economics of out of district transfers. I have
heard estimates that as many as one third of the students at Berkeley
High are either legal transfers or illegal transfers, and my random
experience meeting my kid's friends bears this out. In the case of
legal transfers, I have heard that the district gets $5,000 per
student. Is this in ADDITION to the money the state normally
reimburses school districts per student or is this just a transfer of
funds from one district to another? The difference is important
because most costs associated with education are variable costs. If
Berkeley High went from 3500 students to 2500 students revenue would
go down, but expenses should go equally down (assuming that most costs
are direct costs for education -- and if they aren't then we have
another set of problems).
If the $5,000 is ADDITIONAL revenue then the district should be doing
everything in its power to identify the illegal transfers and get them
to become legal. If it is just a transfer of money from one district
to another then the district should be doing everything in its power
to identify the illegal transfers and get them out.
Now we, the good citizens of Berkeley, have also chosen to tax
ourselves because we support the public education system and what it
means to our future. We tax ourselves to increase and improve the
infrastructure (fixed costs) and reduce class size (variable costs).
Transfers, both legal and illegal, take advantage of our situation by
taking up space in our classrooms and being taught by our subsidized
teachers. If the average person in Berkeley pays an additional $500
per year in taxes for schools then transfers should have to pay to
reimburse the taxpayers of Berkeley. That just seems fair. People
would pay a lot more to go to a private school.
Paul
I would like to hear from BUSD about the transfer situation. I would agree
with Paul Litsky that out of district students should reimburse us for all
the extra tax we impose on ourselves. We WANT to pay it, but we expect that
to be shared by all students/parents using our school system.
Joyce
I visited with Jack McLaughlin yesterday to discuss interdistrict
transfers and crowding at Berkeley High. His position, and, I gather,
the official position of the school district, is the following:
1. Berkeley High is not overcrowded. (Student population is lower
than in previous years).
2. Interdistrict transfers have not increased in recent years. Legal
transfers are well under 10%. Illegal transfers are probably no
higher now than in previous years. The school is making continued
efforts to control such transfers.
3. Legal transfers add $5,000 each, which more than covers the
cost of transfers.
All three conclusions (if correct) are reassuring and deserve to be
more widely advertised. I'd like additional confirmation, insight
from other parents.
Larry
I'm copying the teens list so they can continue the dialog
on this topic in the newsletter.
Dear Larry,
I appreciate the fact that you took the trouble to discuss
these issues with Jack McLaughlin and shared this
information. Even though this is reassuring, I'm still
not certain that there isn't a problem at BHS due to
out-of-district transfers.
1. Even if the student population IS lower, that
doesn't mean the school isn't overcrowded. I'd like to
know if it IS overcrowded; in other words, how many
students are there in the classes? Is there a BUSD policy
on class size for the high school as there is for the elementary
and middle schools? Do the classes exceed that? Are there
enough chairs and books? Are the classes so large that students
don't get enough attention from the teacher or opportunities
for discussion of the material?
It would be good to get candid answers from BHS teachers,
students and the principal and parents who know what the
situation is at BHS.
2. Saying there are probably no more illegal students than in
previous years doesn't diminish the harm this situation does to
the school and our community. How do we know there aren't
more than in previous years if we don't know how many there
are or who they are?
Illegal out-of-district students harm BHS in several ways:
a. They take space that could go to legal transfers, who
bring in $5,000 each! That's a lot of money for the
school to be losing each year.
b. They make the huge BHS school population even larger.
I'm an 8th grade parent who is concerned about the huge
size of the school.
c. Tolerating this situation gives the message to our kids,
both legal and illegal, that the adults in charge can't control
the learning environment. It says to them "illegal and cheating
is okay if you can get away with it"-- a difficult thing for kids
or anyone to live with.
d. The BUSD can control the number of legal transfers,
adjusting that number if necessary. But illegal transfers
are a group that can't be controlled or even identified.
How can the BUSD administer the school properly in light
of this situation ?
I'd like to know what is being done about illegal transfers,
and what other districts have effectively done that we could
try.
Cynthia
Is it correct that the District "loses" any money when out of district
children attend BHS without obtaining a formal transfer? I am assuming this
is not accurate; that these students have an address, register and attend the
school and are included in the school's census which is used to calculate the
state money paid to the district. I don't see how these students bring in
any less money than students who live in the district or students who have
legal transfers. That doesn't mean that the other issues of overcrowding,
etc shouldn't be addressed. Liz
In response to Larry Dale's information from Jack McLaughlin:
1. Berkeley High is not overcrowded. (Student population is lower
than in previous years).
I question the logic of this statement. I accept that the population
this year is lower than previous years, but it does not follow that
BHS is not overcrowded. I think 'overcrowded' needs to be defined.
I understand that BHS is short of resources (from books to counselors).
If we cannot supply our students with books, the school is overcrowded.
Would we be able to address the lunch problems if we had 20% fewer
students? What if we had 30% fewer students? Could we keep track of
those failing? Could we follow up on truancies better if there were 300
fewer students? 500 fewer students?
2. Interdistrict transfers have not increased in recent years. Legal
transfers are well under 10%. Illegal transfers are probably no
higher now than in previous years. The school is making continued
efforts to control such transfers.
How do we know that inter-district transfers have not increased?
We do not know that illegal transfers are higher. "Probably no
higher" is not enough information to come to the conclusion that
the transfers have not increased. For argument sake, let's assume
that they have not increased, does this mean that they are not
too high? We cannot reach that conclusion without definite data.
Guessing is not enough!
3. Legal transfers add $5,000 each, which more than covers the
cost of transfers.
What about illegal transfers? Do we know how many there are? What
costs are covered by the transfers? Do they cover the cost of buildings?
Do they cover the cost of counselors? Do they cover the extra cost of
attracting quality teachers?
Angela
I find the whole discussion on overcrowding at BHS is missing the point.
Why should parents be forced to send their child to a school that doesn't
suit them just because that's where they live? If parents are sending their
children long distances to another school they probably have good reasons.
Aren't we all on the same side here? If the funding for schools came from
the state instead of locally, the inter-district transfer issue wouldn't
have any financial basis at all. The real query is why there is only one
high school in Berkeley when it is too large to be manageable?
fiona
I appreciated reading Cynthia's comments on overcrowding
and out of district transfers @ BHS. You made some good points.
This is also something about which I am concerned and have begun
working on finding out the class size at the school. It would be
great if you would email your comments to Chris Lim, the associate
superintendent, and Joaquin Rivera, president of the school board. I
have been communicating with both of them about the class size issue,
however, unfortunately, they seem to need constant reminders that
there is parental concern about these issues and might need a
reminder.
Chris Lim,
Joaquin Rivera
Toby
The money the BUSD receives per student (the $5,000) does not depend on
whether the student who lives outside Berkeley has an official
inter-district permit. It does depend, however, on the student's attendance
(as does the money for students who live in Berkeley). The district
receives full funding for any student who attends BHS for the full 180 days
of the school year. It receives less money for any student who misses one
or more days. There is a point at which providing teachers for the student
costs more than the district receives for the student.
Many teachers believe, whether rightly or wrongly, that illegal
out-of-district students are the most likely to be absent too much because
we cannot call their parents.
Another relevant factor is that some of the costs of running BHS are fixed,
no matter how many students there are (within reason). The principal,
vice-principals, secretaries, custodians, etc. are there whether BHS has
2800 students or 3500. On the other hand, each approximately 30 students
require that one more teacher be hired but they bring in $150,000 in income.
Since it does not cost $150,000 to pay the teacher, the excess income can
be used for other things (like paying McLaughlin's salary or buying books
for the library.
For most teachers (or at least I think it's for most), the major issue about
illegal out-of-district students is that it is harder to deal with problems
because we can rarely contact their families. There are good reasons why
they cannot be easily identified < unless they call attention to themselves
through their actions, we have no reason to suspect improper status and it
takes precious time to prove out-of-district residence and time co0sts
money. Thus, only the most egregious cases tend to be investigated.
Hope this helps.
Judy
(BHS teacher)
Those who complain about out-of-district transfers may not realize
what sort of student has parents who make the effort to improve, even
marginally, their child's education. For example: Our daughter
attended elementary school in Berkeley based on one parent's
employment at U.C.B. After attending a private middle school (on
full scholarship), she will return to Berkeley for high school. She
tests in the 98th-99th percentiles in SAT9 subjects. We appreciate
the opportunity that interdistrict transfer presents to her. On the
other hand, she (and we) do more to improve the Berkeley schools,
academically and behaviorally, than they do for us.
For four years the Parents Art Support Network at Berkeley High was managed
by an out-of-district parent. The current editor
of the PTSA newsletter, is an out-of-district parent as is the
manager of the BHS e-tree. Cutting down on out-of-district students would
eliminate those families who have legally transferred to the school and care
enough to support the institution. Remaining would be students who have
arrived through deceptive means. However, it is important we note that even
illegal transfers are at Berkeley High School because they WANT to be and
many of them care about the school contributing greatly to our student body.
Each student, whether legal or illegal, brings state money to the BUSD
coffers. BSEP, however, which supplements the district budget, comes from a
local parcel tax. The tax raises a finite amount annually. The more students
we have the more diluted BSEP is. Even here though, some out-of-district
parents have elected to contribute directly to the BSEP funds the amount
they would have been taxed had they resided in Berkeley.
A Final Note. Much to-do has been made over the recently published "Class
Dismissed." It the story of three students from the BHS class of 2000
supplemented with research the author has found. Some of the author's facts
are very interesting some are generalizations based on hearsay and
prejudice. Be that as it may, not one of the three subjects on which the
author concentrated lived in Berkeley. One came from Oakland, one from
Alameda and the third from Richmond. We should look at the number of
students who want to attend our school and be honored--BHS is obviously
doing many things right.
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