Dad's Catholic, Mom's not. Baptize or not?

my husband is catholic and i am not. he has been going to mass regularly since our son was born a year ago and never pressures me to go. i grew up in sf in a bi-racial home (japanese and white) where my mom's buddhist spirtual practice definitely influenced us. my husband's family has asked about baptizing our kid and he keeps telling them we are still talking about it.

we've had several respectful discussions that go in circles--always ends with, ''let's keep talking about it''

i really don't feel comfortable baptizing my child - just don't embrace or appreciate the catholic religion like my husband does. plus can't my kids decide if they want to be catholic or not when they get older? - my husband feels that it's not a big deal that's it's more tradition than anything else. he thinks it's a positive thing. ugggggghhhhh! i don't know what to do.

i would love to hear from folks who have experienced this or have some words of wisdom.

thank you, sf mama

That being said, I am also not catholic, but married to a catholic. It was important to my husband to baptize her, perhaps out of tradition, or faith, or both. Because it was important to him, we did baptize our daughter catholic, when she was five months old. There was a big party at his mother's house, and so on and so forth. I do not think of her as catholic. Rather, I tell myself that by baptizing her, we were saying that we believe in a higher being or spirit, or even an inner-spirit, and we celebrated the power of that. It was important to my husband, and I was happy for him. It is a fun story to tell our daughter, and show her the pictures, and she kind of gets a kick out of it (she is eleven now).

Can you do two ceremonies, one celebrating his beliefs and one celebrating yours? Good luck! I am sure there are many people in your position! Kati

Of course, maybe your husband is mostly wishing for a connection with the church and that might not suit you, but I'm wondering if you might be able to create a baptism/celebration that would incorporate elements from both your traditions and invite people who are close to you to attend as witnesses and/or participants. I once went to a very lovely baptism at St. Joseph the Worker in Berkeley that seemed to combine both traditional and progressive ideas. I personally value these rituals and so I come with that bias (even though I'm a Quaker and Quakers do things very, very simply), but this might be an opportunity to do something very loving and creative for your child. Best wishes. Elizabeth

I'm Catholic and belong to a very liberal parish which accepts many different views of Catholicism and is very tolerant of those who choose not to be Catholic. Perhaps it might be helpful to you to talk with someone who has had a lot of experience baptizing couples in which one partner is Catholic and the other is not. You might consider emailing Al Moser ('Father Al') at the Newman Center at Cal Berkeley. He is extremely gentle, respectful, and non-preachy. He might be able to help you arrive at the right decision for both of you, and allow you to have a conversation which might clarify exactly why your husband prefers that the child be baptized while you do not. His contact info: fral[at]pacbell.net

It's also possible that your husband could accept having a 'blessing' for your child which could be more acceptable for you than a baptism. I'm really not sure. But it's definitely worth talking about and working through.

My very best wishes to you both, and to your child. a Catholic friend

I had a daughter from my first marriage and we did not baptize her, despite pressure from my mom. I felt really strongly about this being my decision and not my mom's. But then my daughter was diagnosed with cancer, and as her illness progressed I could see it was really bothering my mother that she wasn't baptized. As much as I thought, and still think, that this is completley ridiculous, somehow in hindsight my philosophical viewpoint isn't as important anymore. It's a few drops of water and some words, and it was something that would have brought enormous comfort to my mother when my daughter died.

So when I remarried and had the children I have now, we had them baptized in the Catholic church. It's hard to find a church that will do the baptism for non-members (not to mention non-believers, which we in fact didn't mention!) but my mom and sister were able to pull some strings at the church that is part of my sister's kids Catholic school, so we made a trip down to my hometown and got it done.

I liked parts of it. I liked the baptismal clothing and the fact that the entire family gathered to honor my babies. We have nice photos from that day with the whole family dressed up. My young neices and nephews got to be part of the ceremony because it was at their school, and they were very proud.

My kids don't go to church or CCD now. That will probably be one of their only church experiences. But my mom's happy, my husband's mom is overjoyed, and my sister is more or less off my case.

Hope this helps. Sorry to tell you a hard story, but from the viewpoint of Catholics, that is the whole point. anon

Please consider your husband's wishes. As a Catholic parent married to a non-catholic, I couldn't imagine what it would feel like if my partner barred me from sharing my culture with my children in this most fundamental way. And this is what he is doing--sharing his culture with your/his child. I would just ask that whichever community the child is baptized, you should go to mass there and make sure you feel comfortable with the people.

All the criticism of the Church aside, just think of it as giving your child another community to be a loved part of--where ever you go the Church is there. San Francisco isn't named after a great Catholic Saint for nothing... Catholic Mom

I had a Catholic boyfriend (I'm Jewish) and was with him at church one Easter when the priest did a ritual where he flung holy water on the congregation while strolling down the aisle of the church. My bf leaned over and said, ''You're getting baptized right now,'' and I said ''Only if I believe in it.''

This is just a ritual. It doesn't mean anything for his future, IMO. But you guys are going to have to prepare -- his parents might later try to insist on other sacraments that would be more invasive, like first communion, and you've got to have your story straight by then!

My advice to you is to not let this be such a big deal. We baptized our son in a progressive parish with an awesome, kind, progressive and open priest (Fr, Stefan at St Joseph the Worker in Berkeley). I wanted to baptize my son not so he could live a life forever in the Church based on no choice of his own just cause his mama said so, but because I think that in our society, it is east to move through the world without having community and we are intentional about trying to build community for our son.

We are a Chicano/Puerto Rican family raising a bilingual son, so his connection to other Spanish-speaking kids was a part of it for us. Also, our parish is very progressive and sees a cornerstone of the Catholic faith as engagement in social justice issues which is also the type of community we want him to be part of.

Fr Stefan described baptism in a way that I found beautiful and grounding: sacraments are ''sacred moment'' - thats what the word means. He explained that the baptism is not for him as the priest to bestow something on our son that he doesnt already have but instead to take the moment to reflect on all of the blessings he has - the love of family, the love of his parents, the love of his community, and the love of god. Thats what a baptism is - a moment to recongize these blessings. I found that very simple and honest. The baptism is also about a congregation/community saying, ''welcome, little one! we have community with you!''. I think this is cool.

Now, we dont go to church every Sunday and we dont practice hardly Catholic rituals in our home. But that baptism was a nice rite of passage, for one day, in which our son was formally welcomed into a community that he can decide later in life if he wants to maintain that relationship or not. Thats all.

Its a symbol, a ritual. Notihng else. Our son was baptized as a toddler so he was pretty involved and active in the ceremony which was slightly insane logistically but really cool. It wasnt something done to him, it was a ritual he participated in. At one point, the priest lit the baptismal candle, which is a sybmol of his faith, and my son was trying to blow it out. My firs impluse was to try to stop him, and Fr Stefan said, ''its okay, its just a symbol, you guys'' and bent down so Amado could blow it out. We all applauded and it was a cool moment that brought it all in perspective for me.

Oh, and one more thing. We wanted this to not be ''baptism as excuse for party'' situation so to keep it mellow, we asked for no gifts and had a very small cermony with a small mellow dinner afterwards. We didnt invite all of our friends, just family and friends for whom we knew particiapting in a baptism would be meaningful for them and who we see as playing a role in the upbringing of our kid - spiritually, emotionally, politically, and socially. I think this helped keep things in perspective also.

So my advice is to not think that in making this decision you are making a decision for him forever. As long as you and your partner are clear on this, its fine. But its your kid and you have to feel comfortable with it. Hope this helps. genevieve, mama of Amado

However, as he grew, we would both make very clear that different people (his parents included) have different beliefs and different practices, and when he was old enough, we would allow him to make his own choice. This has more or less worked for us, although there have been tricky renegotiations along the way. For example, religious private school of any sort was out. In addition, the way in which we regard our differences is in itself different -- so the explanation I would give my son of what mommy versus daddy believe is VERY different than what my husband would say, even when we both do our best to be objective. It's a tough world to negotiate. Best of luck to you. anonymous

You could also suggest waiting until the child is older. Baptisms aren't just for infants. Protestant interpretation

You can find more info about the WRM at http://www.whiterobedmonks.net. Email me if you'd like - I'd be happy to tell you more about our experience. Good luck! Kristine

We baptized our children and will raise them in our way of being Catholic and will see them through First Communion. Confirmation, the adult process of re-espousing your baptismal promises will be up to them. Baptizing them is more about me than them at this point. It pleased my parents, kinda ticked off my inlaws, but they went along. The babies won't remember it and I feel they have the right to go in whatever spiritual direction they choose. The only foundation I can give them is the one I choose, but I will never teach them it is the only way. I think it would be wonderful if you would educate them in your tradition as well. As I understand it, Buddhism is very accepting of other faiths so you have less of a conflict issue than many people would. The point for me was to officially welcome them into my community, one which my husband partiticpates in even though he isn't Catholic. They will still follow their own paths so I don't think Baptism will do any harm. But, that is my opinion. I'm sure many people will disagree. It really is something you and your husband must decide. I will say this, though, if he does attend Church regularly and doesn't pressure you, why not give him this gift? anon

It helped that I approve of my husband's church and that they don't judge me for my atheism. They are very liberal and humanitarian. I told the pastor who did the baptism that I didn't want anyone ever telling our son that mommy was going to hell, and she said she didn't even believe in hell. anon

I am a lapsed Catholic and am just hitting the high lights for my kids. Christenings, 1st Communion, & Confirmation. I have chosen equally lapsed relatives to be ''God Parents'' and have no problem with my little Berkeley boys saying things like ''I like Ganesh. He's my favorite God.'' hee hee!!! It is so great that our kids can learn about world religions and philosophies from their friends.

As educated people, we can give our kids a healthier take on it all.

Also, want to mention that at the parent info for 1st communion, I learned that a lot has improved with the Catholic dogma. For example; instead of the confession business being weird in-the-box say 20 roseries for sassing yo mama, it is now if you were mean to your mama be knd to her, or, if you lied to your parents, talk to them.... instead of the ''say 10 hail marys'' I grew up with. The way they put it was ''Now, the punishment fits the crime in penance.'' and I like it.

I think going to church is nice. I still am freaked out by the public health hazard potential of holy water but you know, how many chances do kids get to be in a smallish hall with music & sing? It is nice. It's also a good learning experience looking up the songs in the song book & reading to sing...

I have been called a ''Cafeteria Catholic'' and think that that is not bad. Why not let you kids have every cultual advantage they can? Build in all of the Buddist ceremonies you can as well. It sure makes the holidays more meaningfull! Customize!

We ultimately decided to baptize our first child, much against my personal beliefs. I agreed to do it so my husband would not get nagged for the rest of his life. Honestly I have little sympathy for my in-laws, I only regret that they have chosen a faith that has so little room for the inclusion of ''non- believers''. I find it quite insulting that to Catholics, children must be initiated into the faith as an infant, before they have a chance to exercise their own free will. It also insults me that this same faith has put me in a position where as a mother, apparently I am not ''going to heaven'' with my own children because I have not been baptized. It is incredulous.

With our second child, I actually had a panic attack over the proposal to have my husband's entire family return again to celebrate another baptism. We ended up baptizing her just on our own at a local church, with no party and sent his parents photos. This ended up being the best way for us - we performed the baptism to satisfy my in-laws, however I was not forced to endure the pageantry and guilt-trips from them. Believe me no one was the winner here. The whole experience left a bad feeling for all of us.

So, the idea of submitting my children to complete the other sacraments is unnerving to me. I am sure my in-laws wish and even expect this to happen (as I mentioned, they are in denial) however we have no plans to do so. If our kids choose to pursue Catholicism on their own once they are adults, I will have to respect their wishes. However after this whole experience, I can't say that I would ever teach my children anything very positive about the faith.

My only saving grace about the baptism experience is that my children do not remember it. We will be able to discuss it with them when they are old enough to make up their own opinions regarding religion. I do not believe you can be ''born into'' a faith, especially if only 25% of your family agrees with it. I believe faith is an entirely personal choice. It is regrettable that Catholicism does not see it this way. No, I would not say it is ''all about love'', I would say it is all about alienation. Yes, I am bitter

Although, if it means something to your husband and his family, then it really comes down to the fact that it is just a ceremony. No more, no less. My in-laws and parents believe that if our children are given some kind of structure of religious education, whatever that may be, they may be more inclined to have the knowledge to seek out what might be best for themselves later in life. So, baptizing your child now does not mean that you are choosing one religion over another. I don't see why we cannot integrate a number of different teachings to our kids. There is no one ''right'' way to do any of these things. And as you stated, you just need to do whatever makes you feel comfortable in the end. Good luck with whatever you decide is best for you and your family. I hope this helps a little. anon

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