Depression and how it affects my kids

I was diagnosed with depression following the birth of my 2.5 year old daughter. Unfortunately, it took almost a year to get help. I started taking meds and was going to therapy weekly. It helped hugely. Recently, I've gone off the meds because I don't like taking a pill everyday in addition to the side effects. I feel much more aware of the behavior differences between then and now though at the end of the day I am still mostly the same person as before. I've been reading a lot about how kids with depressed parents have different brainwaves than kids without and how acutely depressed parents seem to affect their children. So what do I do know? I feel like I've set up my daughter to have the same problems I have, just like my mother had. How do you undo the damage you've caused your child by being a depressed parent? Am I still considered a depressed parent when I'm not on medication even though I feel better and am more aware of these behaviors and thought patterns? (And I will jump on the medication if I ever feel myself going ''down'' again) How do I protect my daughter from all this? Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks -want to protect my child

In terms of the impact depression has on children, it is thought to be connected mainly to attachment and responsiveness, so those are the two issues that you need to focus on. If your depression impacting your attachment to your daughter, she would be likely to be either clingy or detached, difficult to leave with others or able to go to anyone indiscriminately. Lots of quality time, physical touch and holding, as well as playing together -- and being truly present with her when you do -- are the best way to create a secure attachment. Mindfulness exercises may be helpful to improve your ability to be fully present with your daughter rather than getting caught up in your thoughts.

Responsiveness is very important as well, in that you provide a mirror for your daughter, tracking her behavior and emotions as well as talking to her a lot and making eye contact. That tends to get lost when a mother is depressed. That running dialog that mothers have with their children: ''Wow, you did that yourself! You're feeling very proud...'' ''You're really disappointed about having to leave the playground...'' ''You wish you could have that toy that your friend is playing with...'' It all seems kind of obvious, but that kind of mirroring behavior can be affected when a mother is depressed, and it is a major factor in your daughter developing a strong sense of self. Meri, MA MFTI

Stay at home mom - depression or just need a break?

I am looking to understand the experience of other SAHM with a toddler. I have a 2.5 yo and am currently struggling with the job at hand. It is difficult for me to sort out what is the normal feelings for a mom of a son in the terrible twos, or what is more the result of depression. I have a history of depression, and am not sure if my current feelings warrant medicinal interventions, therapy, or just plain old commiseration with moms in the same boat.

Lately, I feel constantly exhausted by watching him, like I am forever trying to wrangle him in one direction while he goes the other, bored out of my mind playing the same games, frustrated with his lack of attention span. I can't seem to be present with him, because I simply am not interested in playing the same thing over and over when there is so much to be done. Everyone in the family thinks he is the cutest of the cute, and all I can think is, I wish he would nap! I want to enjoy my child and our time together, but I am really worn down.

Anyone have any insight into how to sort out what is depression vs. someone just in need of a little break? THANKS! tired out

I chose not to be a SAHM because I knew that it wasn't for me. I went back to work within 4 months and was a single mother since my child was 3 years old sometime having crazy schedules. On the other hand, I have friends that LOVED to be SAHM and would do it all over again.

Perhaps being a SAHM is not for you either. Nothing wrong with it, and knowing what works for you gives you a better chance also in the relationship with your child. Mine is now a grown adult with her own life, but we are still very close. What I'm saying is that you can balance your needs and your child's need so that everybody gets something. Best wishes

When one of my children was small, I worked 16-20 hours/week. That was perfect. I had time with her but time to be an adult. The hours of one-on-one time didn't just stretch endlessly before me. Currently I have to work nearly full time, and my 3.5 year old is in preschool all day. He loves it and has more fun there.

What I learned as my older one (now in college) was growing up is that we all have ages of children we're best with. I'm not a baby or toddler person. I enjoy my kids more as they get older and we can share activities together. There are lots of things I'm good at as a parent. I love teaching my kids new things. I am loving and cuddly, and set good limits. I have a great relationship with my older child and was frequently praised for my parenting of her. I remind myself of these things when I feel guilty that I don't enjoy straight-on playing with my little guy.

Have you considered a co-op preschool for your child? You'd get low-cost child care, you'd meet other parents, and your child could socialize. I did that with my oldest and made friendships that lasted years. If not a co-op, work on other ways to hang out with moms and kids. It's amazing how much better the parenting job is when shared. Makes you realize why we used to live in tribes. I'd go out of my mind as a full-time SAHM

Fully develop a group of mom friends to hang out with-I went bonkers at home all day-but then you have adults to talk to and the kids play.

Imagining in my mind that developmentally stimulating my child and playing with him was my job-so I went about it with more discipline as if I was at work-like I might want to just play for 5 minutes and then go do something else, but now in my mind it is my job to play this repetitive whatever for 1 hr. Just like I might not always like say writing a report at work, but it is my job, so I stay focused on doing it and committed. This mental mind game helped me with my child.

At the beginning of the day, laying out a game plan in my head or on paper or for the week. Ex, Mon we go to the zoo in the am, then take nap, then play for 1 hr, then meet Amy and her kid at the park from 3-5. This helped the day have more structure and broke it up.

Nights out alone with no kid-something to look forward to or going to the movies ALONE. This was my safe space-a place where no one will ask anything of me, whine, cry scream or demand. No one will touch me, speak to me, or bother me for a predetermined 138 minutes or whatever-I found this very soothing to my nervous system when my child was small.

Hope that helps-don't feel bad, everyone likes different ages the best and everyone has limits of tolerance. got bored too

He's at a good age to start a preschool or coop play group a few hours a week. He'll love it once he gets used to it and you'll meet many like minded parents

Join a gym with childcare if you haven't already. This is a a major life changer. Going for a quick workout followed by a long hot shower will do wonders for your mood. Plus it helps break up/organize the day and you get some time to yourself.

Schedule at least one ''formal'' activity a day and commit to attending it. Could be as easy as story time at the park or a tumbling class.

Take stroller walks outside when you are feeling down or frustrated. Being outside in the fresh air, seeing folks and new things is pleasant for you both.

Make sure you have at least a couple times each day that you devout to totally being with him, connecting him, and enjoying him.

Make sure you partner takes a turn on the weekends or evenings. You should have at least 2-3 hours a week to do your own thing; whatever that may be. Good luck! Glad my kids are in chldcare!

There are parts of parenting I like, and I feel that I'm a good parent. However I'm not the kind of parent who enjoys playing with little kids. Some people love doing this, some don't.

My fantasy of parenting is that I would play with them for hours and marvel at the way their little minds work while we did things like make jam or play with homemade wooden toys. The reality is that I got issued actual children, and they got issued the sort of mom who rushes them when we're taking a walk for fun.

I enjoy the parts I can, I grind through the parts I can't. Hope you can too. Regular Mama

I have many friends who are very happy and fulfilled as SAHMs. But if you're not - maybe it's just not the right thing for you at this time. Consider looking for part-time work in your field or an area you're interested in. If you can afford some child care even without working, you could volunteer or do an activity you enjoy, a couple of times a week. If finances are too tight, a child care trade with another stay-at-home mom could be great for both of you (and your kids, who would get to play together). Even 5-10 hours a week might make a big difference in how you feel about your time with your son. I promise you, self-care for parents is good for children.

One other thing that's been helpful for me with my child is identifying the things that the two of us both like to do, and trying to do more of those things, even if sometimes it means the housework doesn't get done. For example, maybe your child loves to watch construction machinery and you find it extremely boring... but you both love to swim. So you could go to swim classes together. Parents have needs too

- Find some new fun things you want to do together. If I am getting stir crazy, but he's happy logging 3 hours in his room, I'll just say ''mommy needs fresh air'' and we'll get outside... whether I'm pushing a stroller or taking him for a walk on foot. Sometimes I have him to move some toys to the place where I want to work on something else, and he often joins me in a new activity - like he'll make a mess in the kitchen while I cook dinner.

--- Sorry, no glamorous answers here. Just that you shouldn't feel trapped in redunda-play-land. If your babe is happy playing solo, take advantage of that time to do your own thing in the same part of the house (we had to work up to this dynamic). Also, try to find some new things you want to try with him. Maybe he'll be excited about a new book? or a trip to the library? a new playground? Ride the bus? Sure helps me just to get out of the house and see other people. I also started gardening out in the front yard, and that gives us time to say hi to strangers, dogs, and neighbors, check on seedlings, dig dirt, etc.. Mixes it up.

If you are feeling down in the dumps, maybe fish oil? But.... it sounds like you just need new activities that you are also interested in. Good luck! nother sahm

I also have a 2.5 year old son. I love him more than anything in the world, but to be perfectly honest, I don't enjoy ''doing'' things with him in the way I know that I should. To be even more honest, I will say that entertaining him can be tedious and boring. In fact, there are often times when I would rather be doing any one of a number of household chores. I realize how horrible this sounds! Yet at the same time I know how much I love my boy. I wanted desperately to have him. He means everything to me.. When I am away from the house even for a few minutes, I think of nothing else and can't wait to return just to see him. I chose not to go back to work because I couldn't bear the thought of being away from my precious baby. It is difficult to reconcile the two. I love being around my son and watching him learn and explore, but entertaining him is a stressful and demanding job that I seldom actually enjoy. I am always relieved when my husband takes over and I can appreciate just ''being'' with the two of them. I never did enjoy walking around the neighborhood with a stroller, much less trips to the playground. Doing those things made me very depressed. I used to watch the clock tick away, as I desperately awaited the changing of shifts in the evenings.

I also wondered whether to attribute this to postpartum depression. However, I soon realized this was not the case. When I did have moments to myself I found that I was not depressed. Of course, this realization brought with it a tremendous amount of guilt - something I have struggled with for the past two years. Over time I have come to the realization that I am simply not a perfect fit for this age (0 - toddler). Hard as I try, it doesn't come naturally to me. I am convinced that as my son gets older I will truly be able to enjoy spending time doing things with him. Even now (at 2.5), it is a little easier than 6 or 12 months ago.. That is something I have to constantly remind myself of as I go through the day playing pretend games, telling the same old story, and otherwise catering to my rambunctious toddler. Being a SAHM is hard! Your feelings and what you are going through are probably not that uncommon.

I am sure many readers will suggest that what you are experiencing is likely a manifestation of underlying depression. Perhaps that is the case. But wanted to share my story because with me, it wasn't. Best of luck to you. -Anon-

Depression related to hormones/cycle

I didn't have my period for about 3 years during the stretch where I was pregnant and breastfeeding my little ones. As soon as I stopped breastfeeding and my period returned, my depression came back. Specifically, the week before my period, I get deeply, severely depressed. I went to my doctor because I felt that I needed to go back on antidepressants (which I had stopped without issue when trying to get pregnant). I'd struggled with depression in the past and had been on Rx for about 5 years, but never connected it to hormonal changes per se. My doctor suspected it was related to hormonal fluctuations and also told me that PMS symptoms worsen the closer you get to menopause. (I may be perimenopausal considering some fertility issues we had.) I'm on 40mgs of Citalopram (Celexa) and my doctor recommended going up to 60mgs for that week. I was dubious until I just got through my bad week again. I just got so low, I felt overwhelmed, sad, I drop all the balls, I avoid social engagements and people. Sadly it corresponded with my 37th birthday and I didn't really see or talk to anyone. Next month, I'll see if upping my dosage helps, but I somehow feel that's not the only answer. Have there been any advances in women's health? Why is this happening? Is it going to get worse? Am I doomed to be Jeckel and Hyde? Is there some sort of specialist I should see? I feel this cyclical depressive drop is outside the spectrum of what could be considered normal PMS moodiness. I'm not really sure what to do, but this doesn't seem right. (Yes, thyroid has been tested.) Feeling better today because my period started, Kate

If you can't take the pill, I'd go with upping the dose of your antidepressant. I've experienced a significant reduction in peri and menopause symptoms with a generic form of Wellbutrin. Best of luck to you! Karen

It sounds from your post that you are biased towards allopathic medical care. If that is the case, then a skilled nutritionist who has experience addressing hormonal imbalances, PMS, and hormone-based depression should be able to support you in conjuction with an MD. Though food, herbs, and energetic-based healthcare take longer to take effect, they are easier on your body and put a higher value on self care and long-term overall health. Expect to be asked about things like your stress levels, sleep patterns, eating habits, and other seemingly unrelated topics that will help give clues to how to support you overall. I can tell you from personal experience, as well as those of friends, that any of the above four types of practitioners has been infinitely more helpful in solving problems like you are describing than many trips to and drugs from an MD. anon

What helped me a lot (didn't ''cure me'' but made it much better): 400 mg. Folic acid, fish oil capsules, evening primrose oil, taking daily walks, and better anti-depressants in slightly larger doses. Plus the realization that my hormones were a factor in my general mood--i.e. physical factors played a huge role.

What cured it: menopause!!! Hallelujah!! I thought it was going to be a nightmare, based on how bad my periods were and after hearing horror stories from other women. Not so! Menopause has been a blessing for me; my moods are so much smoother.

So I'd say you need better supplements, better meds and a broader perspective. Look for a really savvy psychiatrist who you can relate to (who understands women's cycles and how it affects mood). Some women I know have also benefited enormously from working with a gynecologist, and/or alternative specialists using herbs, nutrition, supplements. --It DOES get better

You didn't mention if you are on BCP now, but if you are, you might try changing brands. If you aren't, it seems possible that going on an appropriate pill would help.

I'm not a doctor and don't play one on TV, so talk to your doctor, gynecologist or even an endocrinologist, about the option. Carrie

Depression & partner's lack of understanding

I suffer from ongoing bouts of depression and myself struggle to understand it--thinking if i can just somehow be strong enough i can remedy it myself, but also at times can recognize that therapy and hopefully some medication can help. I've sought both out at times, with limited measures of success and much failure. In short, I grapple with depression as I know so many others do, and have yet to find a way to successfully keep it at bay. What's becoming a larger issue for me is the fact that my husband doesn't really ''believe in'' depression, therapy, or medication. He's not some regressive person but he had a parent that was probably schizophrenic, requiring hospitalization, and I think as a child had some very bad experiences with family therapy that led him to doubt the profession. So in his mind, which I can understand is twisted by the bad experience, mental illness is not real unless it's full blown mania, and therapy is just a crock. Though he is generally a supportive partner, I find myself despondent at times that he can't understand what I struggle with. I mean he understands that I struggle emotionally but I feel like I'm to blame since there's no understanding of a disease at work. At some level I worry that he doesn't have ''my back''--can't see when i am really despairing and call a dr., a trusted friend, someone to help. I find this more and more depressing in and of itself and worry for me and my small child, and of course like everyone else with recession worries, lately our situation is only more stressful. Anyone have recommendations--ignore the issue with my husband, create alternate support networks (difficult now that I'm an isolated, out of work SaHM), I don't know what? Thank you.

Deeply depressed stay at home mom, hesitant about meds

Hi, I,m a stay at home mom, of two healthy nice kids 4 and 3, I have enjoy beeing a full time mom until the last year I started to have weired feelings, kind of I'm ashamed to say it, but like I don't love my kids, But I do, if you know what I mean. I'm living hell in my soul, even my life is perfect, we do have a pretty house, we are healthy, my husband is amazing and I have a nice but small family support but far away, and few nice friends, but who have their own stuff to worry about.

I went for help to a Psychiatrist who right away gave me a sample of a drug. But here is the problem, both me and my husband are very hesitant of starting a treatment with this type of drugs. I found lots of information of people who have benefit from Lexapro (the one that Dr. prescribed) but it seems that either you will need to keep increasing the dosage or you hit plateau and it does not longer work.

My anxiety is moderate, but it's keeping me of seeing the beauty in my every day life. Not even a vacation is exciting now. So here is my question.. Are there any peolple out there who have successfully batle anxiety and/or depression without medication? And if you decided to use medication for how long did you use it? I'm kind of seeking people that have use medication but in a short term period and were able to gain control of their lives after medication.

I have to mention that I do run 30 min a day, quit caffeine , and my few cups of wine a week. I'm taking care of my diet, and I'm taking herbs (st John's worth and fish oil) and vitamins. but despite my efforts, even I see some improvement , I'm still living this horrible days of pain in my heart. Either I'm mad or sad or just plain dragging my self to do things.

Thanks for your input. Never thought motherhood was so brutal on one's soul

I am now in a position where I want to begin to help women through this cocoon stage of life and I am now teaching classes for women who are Re-Emerging. I would see someone ''professional'' first for at least 6 months. Cry and cry and cry and get it all out and then you will begin to in-vision your self as your new post motherhood glorious self. You will morn all the things you did not do, you will morn your aging you will morn all that you lost or did not have, and then you will embrace who you are about to become. You don't need or want drugs for that. Replace a sad thought with a beautiful thought. One thought at a time. Read: Road Less Travled, or the Power of Now Gather your friends around you. Sit in the sun. Peace All us mothers are with you. WE really are. erica

About the medication: Talk to your regular doctor, not the psychiatrist, about your fears. Understand that often, when depression comes seemingly out of the blue, people use an anti-depressant for a few months and then ease off of it. It helps with situational depression. However, if you have chronic depression, then please do not be ashamed. This is, as I said, *extremely* common for women, and is simply a physical imbalance. Ask yourself: Do I treat my other physical maladies (headache, sore muscles, etc.) with medication? If so, then please understand that depression is simply part of your body, too.

I know it can feel scary. There are many groups to help you find support. I would recommend starting with NAMI in Alameda County; you can get lots of information on the namicalifornia.org Website as well.

You deserve to have the happiness back that you once had, and I promise that by being proactive-- which can be very difficult when you are feeling depressed--you will feel happy again. best of luck

I would encourage you to try the drugs. It can be scary to go on antidepressants, but they can be miraculous. You sound quite depressed and as though you're not enjoying your children's childhood which is so sad, especially because it really, really doesn't have to be that way. I used to worry about who am I if my personality can change with drugs. But once I went on prozac, I realized that was silly. The antidepressants took me back to who I knew I really was. And also, if you decide for whatever reason you don't like the drugs, you can always go off again. As for the plateau, I don't know about that drug in particular, but there are so many and a doctor can always help you find the right one.

If not for your sake, do it for your children. No longer depressed

I know its scary to do a long-term drug. But you have to think of your anxiety & depression as a medical problem, not your fault or a sign of weakness or something that is likely to just go away on its own. If you had cancer, would you treat it homeopathically only or would you go for the big guns?? (Yes, I know anxiety/depression aren't cancer, but I hope you get my point.) If Lexapro scares you, try something else. God knows theres enough choices out there. Its not an easy thing finding the right one for you-they all have different side effects, and one may work on you better than others. They may give you a mix, Lexapro & something like wellbutrin which is a depression drug. The only continuing side effect I have had from these is sexual, which SUCKS. But maybe you will be lucky.

Anxiety is a horrible thing. It sucks all the joy from your life and leave you feeling alone and crazy. You need to fix it. It won't hurt to at least try a few different prescriptions. You owe it to yourself. If you don't like it, just go off it. Its not a permenant thing. been there, done that

1. Work with your doctor to find the right drug and dosage to get you through. Worry less about the long term effects and concentrate on getting to a more balanced you. Yes, SSRIs can loose their effectiveness but not always. And there are lots to switch around to. Relieve that you may be unreasonably anxious about the drugs!

2. Get into talk therapy to figure out what your core issues are. Without addressing what's really going on, you will remain anxious. This is the path to getting off the drugs long term. There is a mind/body relationship and it's important to realize that it's not just chemical.

I have been in a situation where I was dealing with constant panic and anxiety. When the SSRIs kicked in, it was a huge relief, and I wondered why I had put it off for so long. I am a better parent and partner without those feelings, and better able to focus on issues rather than pain.

Give yourself points for having this realization and taking care of yourself in so many good ways. Take the next step and address the problem. Don't let your kids grow up with an anxious and distracted mommy! See the upside of the meds

I want to add that I have treated many people in my clinical training as an acupuncturist who were using anti-depressant drugs on a short-term basis, as you describe, and had success in moving on from them to a more stable place. This is best done with the awareness and supervision of your prescribing MD as well as other any health care provider who is giving you herbs or supplements, as these drugs have varying half-lives and side effects if weaned too abruptly, as well as potential drug- herb interactions. Acupuncturists also see a great number of patients who seek treatment for these conditions as an alternative to drugs entirely, and I can confidently say we see a lot of success in helping people feel better. Good luck to you; I feel certain you will find the light in life again. herbalist

I think one of the big issues is that people often see themselves as a failure if they can't fight the depression/anxiety on their own. This is not the case, and far from it. Anxiety/depression, is like a medical condition for many, that without medication cannot be cured. I don't think medication is the end all be all though, and should be complimented with some sort of therapy, probably in your case, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). You mentioned that you didn't realize that motherhood could be so brutal on one's soul, but I don't think this is about motherhood at all and god, can that attitude make a person feel oh so guilty, and actually feed into the anxiety/depression. That's where CBT can help you.

My husband has moderate anxiety, and has tried to fight it for many years on his own, without medication. He finally caved in and decided to try medication and is on 5mg lexapro, which is the lowest dose you could possibly take. He has been taking it for a year now, with no increase in dosage. It doesn't solve his problems but really takes the edge off his anxiety and makes him feel like he can tackle the bigger issues that are causing his anxiety whereas before he felt overwhelmed by it. Will he take the medication forever? Not sure. But at this point it's helping A LOT, and in conjunction with therapy, he is hoping that he can eventually stop taking it.

Don't see medication as a weakness or a crutch. It's there to support you after you've tried all these alternatives, with some success, but perhaps there is a genetic/biological component that you can't control, and medication can help with that. Best of luck to you. I know it's a hard decision and one that comes with a lot of stigma. Married to a Lexapro User

When I got pregnant with my second child, I knew that I didn't want to go through the severe depression I went through with my first. I was prescribed zoloft. The medication made ALL the difference. I was my happy, easy-going, carefree self again. I was able to enjoy my daughter and being a mother to both of my children. Furthermore, I realized that I never got over the depression from the birth of my first child.

Medication is not for everyone but it certainly was for me. I hope you find what's right for you. Nancy

In addition to therapy, I recommend anxiety and depression classes at Kaiser. I also recommend their mindfullness class (a mix of meditation, yoga, etc).You don't need to be a member to attend, just call them at (510) 752-1075 to enroll. Their class schedule and descriptions at http://www.permanente.net/homepage/kaiser/pages/d12901-top.html. I've experienced clinical depression 2 years ago, and it was the worst experience in my life. I thought it would never end, and I was afraid I would end my life in one of those moments when I was having (almost) uncontrollable suicidal thoughts. I was also sceptical of the prescription drugs. Luckily, St John Wort worked for me - but you should realize that it's still a drug that changes the natural chemistry of your body, and you would need to wean yoursel off it. I was able to go off St John's after about a year of using it, and it took me about 4 weeks of taking smaller and smaller dose of it to stop.

Doesn't sound like St John's is doing much for you though. Talk to your psychiatrist about your concerns with the drug he prescribed. Maybe he can assuage your concerns, or maybe he'll change you to another drug you are more comfortable with. If nothing else helps, and you know that in your heart that you are not living your life in a full and ''normal'' way, then the only way out of that would be to start taking a prescription med - IN ADDITION to continuing with your good diet, excercise, therapy sessions and classes. You will get better... maybe with a drug or maybe not... but you will!

One thing that has helped me a LOT over the years was an article I found on depression proofing yourself and your kids, based on Martin Seligman's work on optimism, http://www.bruceelkin.com/writing/depress_proof.pdf

No one can tell you whether drugs are right for you at this time but you and your practitioners. Before you make that decision, I strongly recommend that you reach out to alternative practitioners such as a holistic doctor, acupuncturist, and/or a body-based or somatic therapist. There are sophisticated ways to read the body and help you make a decision that might support more ease in your situation without necessarily using Western anti-depressants. It's working for me. Alternatively Happy

Ten years ago (while in graduate school), my life was going well. All of a sudden something changed in me. I intellectually knew that life was good, but I became very anxious. I would pace a lot and was not happy. It honestly felt like I wasn't really in control of my own feelings. I would tell myself everything was fine, but I didn't feel that way. I tried counseling, but it was totally ineffective. There was nothing currently in my life that was wrong to change. Finally my sister convinced my to talk to my doctor about SSRIs (Lexapro is an SSRI) as they have helped many of my relatives (I come from a long line of very successful, well educated anxious/depressed people).

My doctor tried Celexa (citalopram) and within a week I was back to my old self. It was truly a miracle. Now I control how I react to my life and situations. I have tried going off of it and the results are not great. I become anxious again and think that everyone I encounter is a total jerk (including my fantastic husband). I realize that my brain chemistry just works that way and it is an inherited condition. However, with the SSRIs, I am in control of myself and my emotions. I can still get sad, angry, etc. but I am in charge of how I react. They really are a wonder drug for those of us that need it.

If you actually need these drugs, herbs and what not are not going to do the trick (St. John's Wort can actually cause a lot more problems). Also as an FYI, I started out on 20mg of Celexa and am still at the same dose. It also still works fantastically. Those bad things you have heard about SSRIs are simply not true. Kate

I don't understand the stigma attached to anti-anxiety/ anti-depressant medication. Please re-think your choices. Your children need a healthy mother and YOU deserve to be happy. anon

The key to figuring out what you need for successful recovery is figuring out what is causing the depression. The more the cause is genetic/physiological, the more likely it is that medication will be required. Most of the time, even when it is physiologically-based, though, there is a precipitating event. Post partum hormones can be a precipitating event, but you probably would have noticed feeling like this three years ago, if that were what started this. Try to think back to when this started, and what changed in your thinking, or feelings, or even actions (like a change in medication or what you eat, for example) right before you started feeling so bad.

If that doesn't lead you to feeling better, I would recommend you see a therapist (who works with a great psychiatrist, for medication evaluations, when needed). Even one session with a good therapist often helps people feel better and begin to understand what needs to happen for further recovery. This would also give you a chance to ask questions and express your concerns about medication, including not only Lexipro, but also St Johns Wort, which is essentially a medication too. Finally, I think it's important to talk about having mixed feelings about your children. Most parents have times when we don't like our children, just as we all have times we don't like our spouse. In most cases, this is normal, but stirs guilt and shame for people, which can turn into depression. It could be helpful for you to get some perspective from another parent who understands and has compassion for these feelings. Cynthia

What is tough is that there are two things in your way of making this work. Fist, you have trouble with the idea of medication, and second, this particular medication takes a bit of tenacity to get through the initial stages.

Lexapro is highly effective with anxiety and depession. Here was my experience. First few days, weird feelings, fatigue, listlessness. Feeling hungover (without drinking). Enough misery to make most people say ''enough allready!''. Then, after about a week, the clouds lift and sights and sounds are enjoyable. A lightheartedness and sense of fun emerges. If you are afraid of medication, you may not make it through the first few days though.

It does work. Very well. I took it for about 8 months at full dosage and after feeling better I've tapered off. In that time, the life changes from freeing myself from anxiety and depression are remarkable.

I've not only landed a great new job - in less than a year I got a promotion. My social life is fantastic - I make friends easily and am fun to be with. I've lost my insecurities and paranoia - a few things that held me back prior.

If you want to make changes, stick it out. You can take this drug, feel better and then wean yourself off. But the first few days are hard. Talk to your Dr. for the best advice. .

I tried acupuncture and it has helped me maintain my spirit. If I'm really down in the dumps, non-appreciative, not even enjoying vacation time, I schedule two visits a week. This really seems to turn things around, helps me be positive and excited about my life. In my case being depressed is the end result of not pursuing my dreams and ambitions (ambition not as strong now that I'm older). Staying at home takes a toll on all of us, I have many friends who get depressed esp. the ones currently unemployed. I have tried almost everything under the sun to maintain my spirits, pls give acupuncture a try if you've never tried it. I will try anything other than long/short term meds. Right now I drink acai juice in mornings (I think it's called Mona Vie), order this by the case. I buy SAM-e from Costco pretty regular. There are days I don't take Sam-e and drink the juice. The Sam-e does work for me, google it as you should be taking B's along with Sam-e. Also, my rule of thumb is I try to have one good conversation a day with a caring supportive friend. It really seems to help. take good care, Newbie Parent

It's great to try to treat what you're going through in more natural ways, and it sounds like you've made a terrific, serious effort. But medication may now be the best addition to those things to help pull you out of this dark hole. The medications aren't perfect fixes, but they can help and people do sometimes get the response they need and then move on after a short course with them. Please don't write off medication because it's not ''natural.'' This pain you're feeling isn't natural either, and you owe it to yourself and your family to do what you can to break free. All good thoughts and wishes to you

Am I Depressed?

I think something must be wrong with me, but I don't know what. I'm rarely ''happy,'' but I'm also rarely ''sad.'' My life is sort of a straight line, with no real highs or real lows. I don't get a lot of joy out of things; I feel like I'm just kind of going through the motions. I have a three year old son, and I do enjoy my time with him. I do find, though, that I'm not as fully engaged in my time with him as I think I should be. My marriage is fairly blah. I love my husband, but I'm not in love with him and there is zero passion (at least on my end, he says he finds me very attractive, etc.). I'd be fine if I never had sex again. My job is okay - I don't love it, I don't hate it. I don't know if maybe I'm depressed? Has anyone else felt like this? I'd like to live my life more deeply and more passionately, but I don't know how. Thanks! Anon

If you can find something that includes your husband and your child, then that's even better. However, most people have some time to spare, for example, I'm sure I can turn off the TV more and engage my mind and spirit. Peace

The other thing I have done over the years is to volunteer my time with a dog rescue group. Dogs (and all animals) are my passion, and since I can't make a career out of it right now, I do what I can in my spare time to help. A lot of what I do can be done from home on my computer, so it's not that inconvenient. If there is any cause that interests you, and you have a little time to spare, check it out. Even just an hour here or there can help a lot and boost your spirits, and you'll get to meet some new people who share your interests.

As for my relationship, it still needs work, and we are definitely in a rut. I love my husband, and even though the passion is gone, I don't believe that it's irretrievable. I just don't know how to get there, and having a young child around makes it much harder. So I don't have advice for this topic, but just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. I hope some of this helps and that you get some more advice from BPN. I understand

I think being a good parent does mean putting aside the things that sparked our passion in pre-kid days. I also think that after seeing your spouse in their frayed underwear every morning for a few years, the concept of marital passion can seem somewhat ridiculous.

Stop fretting about self-diagnosing ''depression'' and -- sorry about the cliche -- do count your blessings. You say you are married to a man you love, a man who finds you attractive and I assume your son is healthy, yes? I ask because my child is just a little older than yours and she has a very serious life-threatening disorder that has required radiation, chemo and several surgeries. Would it make me ''happy'' if she were to be cured? Of course. Mom of 2

Those early years are very psychically draining. You might want to really think about the things that you would like to do to be more present and live deeply. Join a meditation group, a book club, take a class (online, even). If you have the time, volunteer for something you feel passionate about. New social contacts help you feel less blah.

Definitely give yourself some time and attention, but also give some to your spouse. Try to do things that you think will please him and show your appreciation- being kind to others actually makes us think more kindly of them. It's a positive feedback loop. Talk honestly abt your low libido and ask him to let you ''off the hook'' for sex, but increase your physical affection. Cuddle, hug, and kiss. Taking the pressure off so sex doesn't feel obligatory and making an effort to remain physical can really help re-kindle things.

It might be helpful to have a therapist to be your support and cheerleader as you get your groove back. There are alot of good folks in the archive, but I highly recommend Taryn Thomas- 510- 496-6070. She's in the Berkeley, Albany area.

Lastly, do appreciate what you have. It sounds like you are blessed with a husband who loves you, a wonderful son, and a job that is just fine and pays the bills. See your boredom/blahness for what it represents- stability. You have a wonderful stable base to deepen your relationship with yourself, your partner, your child, and your community. How lucky! Don't let the blahs get you down! Been there, too.

I totally emphasize with the mom, having borne a seriously sick child and having spent way too much time in hospital myself. I have also been depressed for quite a while before I admitted it to myself and finally reached out for professional help.

I don't think it is fair to discount the poster mom's concerns about being depressed just because she may be blessed with a healthy child. Is she therefore not 'entitled' to feel depressed? Any mom deserves to get help when needed, and any child deserves a happy, functioning mom. I suggest to get professional help to check out what the underlying issues are.

I have heard a lot of comments like ''I can't really complain to you, because your situation is so much more serious.'' or ''what am I complaining about, at least I am blessed with a healthy child''' and similar. I always respond that every concern/anxiety is valid and should not be measured for validity by the status of the child's health.

Please be fair and don't let your emotions about your own situation make you dismiss other people's - yes, less serious - issues. Compassionate

Dr. Donald Stanford at 2232 Carleton St. Berkeley. 510-848-5330, was the first of the 5 psychiatrists that I called for help who actually called me back. The other 4 DIDN'T RETURN MY CALLS.....EVER!!! I'd love to post their names here with a ''don't bother'' recommendation. By that point I was thinking very dark thoughts and it was an emergency.

I've realized through Dr. Stanford's gifts in listening, and his attunement to balancing medications and his taking a minimalist approach to meds. that I'm glad the other 4 didn't call back!!! He's Yale trained and quite brilliant as well as intuitive.

I'd most highly recommend him for talk therapy and for carefully balancing any medication that's needed. I've also realized through seeing him (MD Psychiatrist)that in the way one wouldn't go to a general practitioner if one was having a heart attack, that the same applies for psychiatry and psychotropic medical balancing. I'm sure there are some MD's and psychologists who are gifted at it, but you don't want to spend time hunting in the wading pool when you are floundering in the ocean. Aviano

How do you tell if you are depressed?

Hello, I am extremely embarrassed about asking for advice on this, but here it goes. I am a SAHM to 2 wonderful children, a girl 8 years and a boy almost 4 years. Quite often, I experience crying jags--or, right now, I feel like I am in a fog and barely functioning. At least a few times a week I just feel downright blue. My husband tried to give me a pep talk the other day and told me that I needed to be strong. The worst is that I absolutely hate feeling sorry for myself, which makes me even feel more guilty. I feel like I should be enjoying staying home with my children and not wasting my time feeling so down. I also hate to admit this, but although I love my husband tremendously, sometimes his temper and bad moods rub me the wrong way. On the weekends I am scared that he will all of sudden snap at me. A few times he has thrown things (he didn't hurt anyone though) and one time he punched a hole in the wall. He has never hit a person though and is normally a very loving husband and father. So, I am curious. How does one determine if one is actually depressed. I read that you need to feel consistently depressed? I guess I am just so scared of taking any medications. Thank you anon

And things don't sound good with your husband--worrying that he's going to snap at you or punch holes in the wall sounds very stressful and could certainly be a factor in your depression. I have to wonder what's going on with him that he's sometimes loving and sometimes so angry. Counseling could help you figure out what's going on here, as it sounds complicated. Sympathetic

Also sounds as if your husband has a serious anger management issue. That may be making your depression even worse. I also read hints that you have unacknowledged fears that at some point he might hit something other than the wall. Talk therapy may give you a more insight into coping with his behavior.

My experience: 1) Untreated depression is terrible and interferes with everything in your life; 2) it can be very frightening to a child to have a mother who has untreated depression.

Studies show that a combination of talk therapy and medication are most effective in treating depression. Find someone to talk with, and/or a support group, A.A.--whatever you can arrange and afford.

I worked with a great psychiatrist (not local) who said to me: each medication works on 80% of the people who try it, but no one can predict how you personally will react. So what worked for me may not work for you. What that caveat, I'll share my own experience. I too was afraid of medication but I find I do much better with it. It took quite a while to find a drug that worked well for me. Some people only take the medication for a short period of time, in combination with talk therapy, and are able to stop taking it once their depression lifts and they have developed some better coping skills.

Other things I have found to be extremely helpful: regular exercise, especially in daylight (1/2 hour to 1 hour walks with the kids?); eating well; fish oil capsules, Centrum with ginseng and gingko biloba, and B vitamins. I also talk frequently with friends and try to find time to do things that are just for me, although that can be hard to do when you are a mother.

Find what support you can and start to take care of yourself, it is one of the best things you could do for your children. I wish you the best. Good luck

so bottom line i am not sure you are depressed. I think his bad mood/attitude is boggin you down anon

You are to be complimented for taking the first steps to getting help. It sounds like you love him and your children and want things to get better. Once you are all in therapy, things should improve. Anon

''Quite often, I experience crying jags'' ''I feel like I am in a fog and barely functioning.'' ''I just feel downright blue.''

These are classic symptoms. You don't need to feel them every minute to be clinically depressed. Here's what's paralyzing:

''I absolutely hate feeling sorry for myself, which makes me even feel more guilty.'' ''...wasting my time feeling so down'' ''I am just so scared of taking any medications''

Your stiff-upper-lip attitude, reinforced by your husband, is admirable but harmful. Depression is NOT a character flaw to feel guilty about. If you need help, get it or it can worsen. Do it for your children if not for yourself. They're no doubt confused and frightened by your moods.

Medication, if you need it, does not change you into a different person. It helps return you to the whole, strong, happy person you can and deserve to be. Don't let ignorance and fear keep you from taking this path if that's what's needed.

You have another, very big problem that's also making you depressed: Your husband has an anger problem that could possibly escalate to physical abuse. Even though ''He has never hit a person though and is normally a very loving husband and father,'' that's obviously not enough to keep you from being alarmed. Again, your own words:

''his temper and bad moods..'' ''On the weekends I am scared that he will all of sudden snap'' ''he has thrown things'' ''he punched a hole in the wall''

Even if he is only hitting objects right now --- and even if it never progresses beyond that --- that climate of fear is emotional abuse. Do you really want your young children, who can't protect themselves, to have to live as you do, wondering when the moment will come when he really snaps and punches THEM?

Yes, you are depressed, and so is your husband, and you both need to be undergoing treatment. Even if he refuses, GO YOURSELF. Do it for your sweet children; they need their mom to be happy and strong, and not to be afraid of rages of their father, not matter how loving he can be at other times. Get help NOW

As for your husband's impulse control problems (which may be triggered with pressure and stress), it would be in your best interest to secretly talk with a counselor to see if he's got a large pattern of abuse (hard to tell for sure from your post), and then get some skills or ideas to learn how you can deal with it or what to do next. You might think it's silly, but I suggest call a domestic abuse hotline anonymously and just explain what he does occasionally. See what they have to say about it. Maybe they'l say that's not too bad, or maybe they'll say he's out of line. They should, either way, have some great resources or ideas for how you can handle it. anon

Your feelings are important, it's OK to ''feel sorry for yourself'' (what other ways do you minimize yourself in your speech), don't be embarrassed about any of this, being self- critical will make it that much harder to move through feelings. It's hard being a mother especially with a possibly unsupportive or even emotionally abusive husband. I'd say browse the self-help section of the bookstore for titles on how to tell whether you're in an abusive relationship, AND get therapy. P.S. I've been there, that's how I know. Anon

I think if you're feeling like you might be depressed, then you probably are. While I dont' wnat to jump to conclusions about your husband, I'd say he has his own anger issues and is afraid for you to get help.

You can't just ''snap out of it.'' Babies do things to some of us and we need to seek help now that we have it. I happen to have a friend whose ex wife recently murdered her children and tried to commit suicice. She survived. While I was never that extreme, I hate to say it, but I could understand how if it's severe enough you could rationalize anything. anon

Seeing the right counselor can make a big difference. Anne Marshall was a very good fit for me. She helped me realize that although my (now ex-) husband was a decent person and a loving father, I wasn't getting treated like an equal partner in the relationship, and my needs weren't being treated as legitimate. She also helped me understand longstanding family patters that fed into that. My depression turned out to be situational-my brain chemistry was kicking me when I was down, but once I dealt with the causes, the depression lifted. Anne Marshall's number is 220-0808, and she has offices in Albany and North Oakland. Treat yourself gently, and I wish you the best of luck. anon

Single mom suffering from major depression

Hello.I am a single mom who is suffering with major depression. I can hardly get up in the mornings. I am everyday trying to hold it together, but I feel it slipping away. I am always moody and just disconnected. I love my daughter and I want to show her and I don't want her to see me this way. I'm unorganized in my thinking and my everyday activities.I want to take some time off work and try to deal with this, but I'm afraid of what people might say. Do you think I can work on this without taking time off? I have tried anti-depressants, but they make me so drowsy I can't work. Any adivce would be appreciated. a mom

Please, get treatment. I know it's hard to ask for help when you are in it, but you owe it to yourself and your kids. If your doc doesn't help go to your OB, find a therapist, etc. Keep asking for help until you get it. Trust me, I know how much energy this takes--but you will get there.

If you think there is any chance you may harm your self (or your kids) please call your doc or 911.

If you can't get out of bed in the morning trust me, they are being affected deeply. There's nothing better that you can do for your kids than to teach them that mommy knows how to help herself.

If you need to take time off work do it! You and your kids come first, not others opinions. But please, if you are going to be in the house all day get help along with taking time off-- otherwise you will just sink further into depression.

Please, please get help! Here are a couple places a place to start:

Bay Area: UCSF - Women's Mood and Hormone Clinic www.ucsf.edu/brizlab/ wmhcindex.html

State of California: Postpartum Health Alliance www.postpartumhealthalliance.org/ index.htm Don't Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!

Get out of your typical routine/rut. Stay away from the TV as much as possible. Cover it with a blanket so it isn't staring at you, begging to be turned on. I encourage you to make good use of your break and really explore (yourself, your world, your interests). This is the time where you can reinvent yourself and recreate your life to be more joyful and healthy (in whatever manner appeals). I know the weather is cold, but you can bundle up and go on some easy hikes. You can find lots of free events to go to. You can take long drives in the country, which will still give you the time to think through whatever is up for you right now. One thing that is easy to do when not working, is to become a hermit. Make a realistic plan for each day, that includes leaving the house for at least part of the time. Don't just sit around, because it makes depression worse.

I just started a mini-hiatus: I cut my hours in half. I'm so excited that I can do all the things I never have time or energy for. E.P.

Also, many therapists only work to get you to be ''a functioning member of society,'' rather than truely being set free and transcending your issues. My problem in the end had to do with what society expected of me (or what i viewed those expectations to be), thus simply trying to get me productive part of it did not address the problem...maybe I am rambling about me... but just trying to pass my experience. After 11 years of on again off again therapy and meds and more years of depression, I have been 6 years with no depression and no meds.

If you can afford it, I would work part-time while seeking treatment. Interview different therapists. Look for therapists that are into natural treatments. Unfortunately I lived in Washington when I found the right therapist, so i have no advice on that... not depressed

Does St John's Wort work for anyone?

I'm thinking of taking St John's Wort and wanted to find out if it has worked for anyone. In specific I'd be interested in knowing how long you've taken it, what brand you use, have you experienced any side affects or interactions and anything else that would be useful.

My situation is that I feel overwhelmed and depressed right now. I took Paxil for 1 year about 8 years ago and really liked it but didn't like some of the side affects and also had withdrawal symptoms I didn't like so I thought maybe St John's Wort might be a alternative. anon

If you really don't want to try another prescription anti-depressant, there are psychiatrists & general physicians around the Bay Area who will work with herbal remedies. You may be able to find one through the BPN archives or a reply to your post, but if not, try looking in the yellow pages or inquire at Lhasa Karnak Herb Co. (are two in Berkeley, don't know if they give referrals, but they might be able to start you off in the right direction to find someone).

But- I would suggest, based on my own experience, that you consider trying another prescription anti-depressant first. There are many, many more than Paxil, & many that aren't SSRI's (which is the group that's notorious for sexual side effects, don't know if you had that problem).

SSRI's are handed out like candy these days, especially by general physicians who just don't have enough experience with the variety of ADs available to know what would make sense for you to try next.

St. John's Work has a similar method of action as tri-cyclic ADs, & can have similar side effects. I take a TCAD, tried several SSRIs first, also briefly tried St. John's Wort, & like the TCAD much better both in terms of its effectiveness for me & I don't get the awful inorgasmia that I got with SSRIs. I did get more early side effects from it- dry mouth, felt a bit overall yucky- than from SSRIs but they went away after a couple of weeks, & I got the same kind of side effects from St Johns Wort!

You didn't say if you went off Paxil with the guidance of a physician, but you will get ''withdrawal'' symptoms if you go off any anti-depressant without slowly tapering down- including St. John's Wort. Working your dose up slowly when you begin one is also a very good idea- many people actually get good AD effects at a sub-clinical dose, & the lower the dose the fewer side effects you're likely to get. Anon

All this is not to say it's 100% safe; there are drug interactions possible, and one has to be cautious with any remedy. Good Luck!

Dealing with cyclical, short-term acute depression

Does anyone have experience with or advice for dealing with cyclical, short-term acute depression? I have struggled with general depression for many years and have controlled it through ''talk'' therapy rather than medication (which I prefer to avoid if at all possible). However, over the past year, I have noticed a new phenomenon. I will suddenly and inexplicably suffer, for lack of a better expression, a ''depression attack'' which lasts for a week and then, just as suddenly and inexplicably, lessens or disappears completely. It is like coming down with the flu and then recovering, except that it is a mental, not physical, episode. These attacks are upsetting, not least because they are so debilitating, but also because they are so unpredictable and random. They are very intense--it is all I can do to manage the day-to-day details of parenting and living when they occur. I also never know how long they will last. Anyone with a similar experience out there? Any ideas on how to handle this kind of depression? Thank you so very much.
struggling mom

For 10 years, I worked with antidepressants, talk therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, meditation, yoga, diet, and herbal remedies to try and control the cycles. I got tested for a variety of medical conditions (thyroid, adrenal dysfunction).

Finally, a psychiatrist said he thought I might have bipolar disorder rather than unipolar depression. I added lithium to my antidepressant and have not had an episode since (it has been nearly 12 months, which is a pretty long time for me to go without having an episode).

I still believe diet, exercise, and stress management are key to my health. But I also feel that the lithium and antidepressant together are (so far) critical, too.

I know you said you don't want meds, but I did want to share that what's going on might not be depression.

A great website for information about bipolar II and "soft" bipolar disorders is by Dr. Jim Phelps: www.psycheducation.org. Please take a look at it and see if you find your experience described there! ---Finally feeling hopeful that the cycle will end---

One of the quirky things about Bipolar, II is that your reaction to antidepressents (SSRIs) is not as expected. My husband was diagnosed when he finally went to see an expert psychopharmacologist because a third variety of antidepressant let him down (two did nothing much, the third created a sense of rage that he lived with for months, waiting for the meds to ''start working''). He was taken off the SSRIs and put on a mood stabilizer, and then later -- once he was stablized, the Dr reintroduced an SSRI which improved his baseline.

Before we got into this adventure I'd never heard of the disorder or the treatment. My husband is a brilliant and loving guy who makes big contributions to society... I don't know what his life would have been like without this intervention. He still has the occasional bad day (don't we all?) and seems to react to changing seasons and shorter days... but he is functional and happy and here for me and for his kids.

I'd urge you to see the best doctor you can, and to follow the advice that doctor gives you, even if it includes trying a medication... You'll never know how much better you can feel, unless you start feeling better. I'm only Depressed and Distracted.

Of course, if you don't need medication that's great BUT if you need it don't hesitate to take it. Whatever you do though get professional help. I struggled with depression for 25 years before I decided to go for a long-term treatment.

I've been taking meds for a little over a year which is by far the longest stretch ever. There were some side effects to manage but I have never felt this free. Finally, I'm not controlled by my moods, emotions, and hormones anymore. Good luck! Finally free

I know exactly what you mean by ''depression attack'', and it's one of those things that is difficult for someone who hasn't experienced it themselves to really understand. It's vastly different than the normal ups and downs of life.

What you're describing is a mood disorder, they are biological disorders, and susceptibility to them is now known to be genetic. There are many kinds of mood disorders involving depression, and it takes a skilled and experienced psychiatrist to correctly evaluate a patient and make a well-considered diagnosis.

In my long years of chronic depression, peppered with clinical depressive spells and less frequent hypomanic spells, I did years of therapy. I believe in therapy, it gave me a lot, but I always knew instinctively that something physical was driving my depression and instability, and that therapy couldn't remedy that underlying problem.

I'm not going to push medications given what you said, but I want to share some of my experience with you, and to suggest that you keep an open mind about meds. I think that you'll be selling yourself short if you dismiss them out of hand without getting some real education about them. They've restored thousands of people to a place where life is in proportion and can be enjoyed, and they've (literally) saved the lives of many people.

Even if you remain firm in not wanting to take any medication, please make an appointment with an experienced psychiatrist, get a diagnosis, and get a medical understanding of what's going on with you. Like you've said, it's very scary to be attacked by a debilitating mood and have no idea what's happening or why.

What you decide to do with the info you get is entirely up to you. Knowledge is power. Simply having some info, having a name for your condition, and understanding what's happening with your body chemicals will allow you to do some research on your own, and to seek out support groups.

Good resources to know about in our area are Langley-Porter Institute, (the psych part of UCSF medical school), and Stanford medical center. Both have mood disorder clinics, are cutting edge in terms of being up on the latest research, and offer very thorough evaluations.

If you have Kaiser, I can highly recommend Dr. Jeanne Leventhal in the Oakland Psych Dept. I found her through a post on this list, and she has been the one who has most successfully addressed the depressive aspect of my disorder. She is also a specialist in women's hormonal issues, and includes looking at their influence in her diagnosis and her treatment recommendations.

Hang in there, and take care of yourself! Anon

Depression and anxiety - non-drug options

I am struggling with mild-moderate depression/anxiety. I was on Prozac for 2 years, then recently got off (under MD supervision) to try to get pregnant. Things are going well in my life now (as opposed to when I first got on the drugs). Yet I'm still feeling the depression and anxiety coming back (worse also in these short, winter days), unrelated to any particular external circumstances. I'm funcioning o.k., but hate feeling this way. I know that going back on meds is an option, even while trying to get pregnant, but I want to exhaust all other non-drug options first. Does anyone have advice on alternative ways to manage mild- moderate depression and anxiety? I have already taken some measures such as getting more sleep, cutting out caffeine, exercising more, and trying to cut down on unnecessary work responsibilities. But I still feel bad. Also, I was thinking of seeing a professional to help me in this. My MD will only prescribe drugs. I would like someone who can give practical advice and support, rather than drawn out psychotherapy. Ideally, it would be an expert in these issues who could help coach me in using nutrition, light, stress- reduction techniques and other practical techniques to deal with the symptions. Any advice or recommendations of professional help would be appreciated anon

There are two books I'm reading and following the exercises that have also helped me immensely. They are by the late Australian doctor Claire Weekes. Don't be misled by the fact they were written in the '50s and have some dated language, or by the simplicity of the approach. The approach works, and started working for me right away. One book is called ''Hope and Help for Your Nerves,'' and the other ''Essential Help for your Nerves.''

I wish you the best in getting through your challenge and completely believe you can. Help is out there

On the topic of light and melatonin, don't ever sleep in during the fall and winter months. Get up early and go outside even if you had a late night. You don't want to miss what light there is.

I was also helped by very intense aerobic exercise even though previous regimens of more limited exercise had only modest effect. This may or may not be a practical suggestion for two reasons. First, it takes a lot of time and energy to exercise that seriously. Second, I don't think it's conducive to getting and staying pregnant, at least it wasn't for me. Still, something is better than nothing, so I'd stick with what you're doing. Also, I think outdoor is better than the gym. And massages are great.

Finally, I think the people who tell you to regularize your day (eat, sleep, exercise, etc. at the same times) are right, though this can be hard to do in real life. But try moving in that direction to the extent you can. And good luck. (BTW, I did not have to do much of anything to stay happy the winter I was pregnant, so know that it's possible for the hormonal changes to work in your favor.) Anon

Finally, too much time spent with the TV and computer leaves me less joyful. It's usually mindless entertainment where I zone out. It dulls my creativity, and stops me from thinking, feeling, enjoying, playing, etc. Why not detach somewhat and try gentle walks enjoying the beauty of nature, breathing the fresh air? Also, take up a craft/hobby that you can really get into and do with your hands.

We all need to pursue our creativity, in ways that fill us with joy. Otherwise, it's easier for hopelessness and depression to sneak in. Good health and mood to you!

Depressed when the sun's not shining

When the sun is out, I'm happy and optimistic, for the most part. But when it's foggy (most of the summer here) I get more and more depressed as the days go on. Besides moving away (can't do right now), medication (tried it), and physical activity (which I'm working on increasing), does anyone know of anything specifically to combat SAD? Sunlamps? Yoga?
SAD at the sight of fog

And with the long rainy springs we've been getting lately, it makes dealing with the fog all the more difficult. I have never tried lights to combat Seasonal Effect Disorder, but I've heard they are very helpful. Another thing that helps is to get outside as much as possible on those foggy days. Just bundle up and go for walks out in the open where there is mostly sky above you. You will get more light that way. Don't wear a hat or sunglasses. Avoid dark woodsy walks through redwood tree groves, they can be very dark and very wet on cold foggy days. Avoid spending too much time indoors. Keep all your curtains and blinds open as much as possible when you are inside. Always sit by a window. If you just can't take another day of fog, then try to visit other areas of the Bay Area that are sunny and warm. Go for your walks and run your errands in the sunnier locations. Your mental health is worth the extra driving.

Another thing that might help is to try to wear more cheerful, sunny colors. I find that most people in the Bay Area, especially in Berkeley, tend to wear dark, drab colors, and are very casually dressed. This just adds to the foggy depression. Around here it's hard to dress warmly and also stay in touch with the season with the sunny colors. Try to find light and bright colored sweaters.

Mail order might be your best bet. I find that I usually feel much better if I ''spruce-up'' a bit, put something a little nicer and brighter on, and wear lipstick. I may not fit in with the look around here, but at least I feel better. Laurey

If you don't want to move, maybe you could just go to these places on foggy days, if you are a stay at home parent. If you have to go to work, I guess you have to go no matter what. I would also recommend going to a gym. Exercise will improve your mood and you will be inside, so the weather won't really matter. Coffee also helps. anon

Also check out Dr. Norman Rosenthal's landmark book on SAD ''Winter Blues'', which is an inspiring and informative read. You can get it from the library. Good luck and feel free to email me Dyane

The thing that worked somewhat well for me was 1) having a regular sleeping schedule (yes, random!) and 2) turning on every light in the house IMMEDIATELY when I got up. Getting the light right away when I woke up seemed to help switch ''on'' something. Go figure.

It is annoying!
-send me to san diego

Why Am I So Unhappy?

I am not sure if I’m looking for advice, a recommendation or just an outlet for what I’m going through. I have, what would appear on the outside, such a great life. I have a loving husband, a wonderful house and an absolutely adorable son whom I adore with all my heart. Why am I so unhappy? I feel so trapped in a life that is not what I want. And, part of the problem, is I don’t really know what I want. I guess I thought that I would have accomplished so much more with my life than I have. I am depressed almost all the time. I want to sleep all the time. I feel like I’m sleepwalking through every day. The only thing that makes me happy is being with my son - I want to be with him all the time. But, I’m starting to feel like I am unworthy of my son who is so full of life and energy. I have no energy for him. We are strapped for money, mortgaged to the hilt and I have to work full time when I’d rather be with him. But, I almost feel he is better off in preschool without me because even if I was home with him, would it be any better for him? Would I be any better or would I just continue to be depressed and have a negative impact on him? Now I’m looking for work again and I cannot muster even the slightest desire to find it, even though I know we absolutely need me to work in order for us to just pay the bills. I would love to see a therapist, but we have no extra money to spend on one and I hate taking any time away from my time with my son. I feel completely selfish and childish for feeling this way when I know so many people are much worse off. I feel like there is something terribly wrong with me that I can be so completely unhappy when I really shouldn’t be. I don’t know what kind of advise anyone can offer. I just didn’t know where else to turn. I have great friends, but have a hard time talking about this with them (and my husband) because my unhappiness seems so unreasonable. I feel so overwhelmed with it all. anon

Secondly, there are some excellent free or sliding scale services in Alameda County. Check the following website:

http://www.berkeleyfreeclinic.org/download/COunseling%20update%202.pdf for specific information, phone numbers, and contacts. Another place to check would be your local church, synagogue, or mosque. Even if you are not a current member, if you go into a rabbi, priest, or imam, they would be unlikely to turn you away. Generally, there are peer support groups in religious communities that are free and confidential.

As for taking time away from your son by seeking therapy - try to think of therapy as a way for you to be a better parent. It will increase your sense of self and therefore, your confidence in raising your son the way you want to. Think of the time you are unhappy now, while you are with him. Wouldn't you rather take an hour a week to turn this time into time you feel is well spent?

I'm sure your son loves you just the way you are. It sounds like you are a very caring and loving mother. But you need to take care of yourself and work through the important issues that are causing you confusion, sadness, and lack of energy. Also, you may have a chemical imbalance that can be treated through a variety of methods (not necessarily pharmaceuticals) and this could very well turn things around for you.

You have the right idea - talking about this to other people is a great start. Don't stop now! anon

I would also suggest trying Bach Flower Essences. You can read about them at Whole Foods or at Vitamin Express (Shattuck and Rose). They might help your state of mind. Good Luck. anon

I was working part time from home and had a nanny come in to help out when I had to work. It wasn't my ideal, but we ''needed'' the money. I always wanted to stay home. She was wonderful and like a grandmother to our son, but I still felt bad. 3 months after she started, my company shut down their West Coast operation and though I looked for an interviewed in other jobs for which I was qualified, none of them panned out which I believe (due to my religious faith) was no accident. We had no idea how we would live on only my husband's income, since it was less than half of what we were taking in, but we managed. We did even talk about moving, but in the end, due to the lovely refinancing rates, didn't have to. We re-organized our lives, and though are very tight on money, have never been happier.

Just to ice my cake, in a weird way, 2 months after I became a full time mother, my son got the flu and had a seizure from the dehydration. We were at the hospital most of the day having tests run on him, and he wanted nothing but mommy all day. He loves his dad and his dad is VERY involved, but he just wanted his mom. As we sat there throughout the day, we talked about how it just really cemented that what we were doing was right, and how we would have felt getting a call from a nanny or a day care to tell us our son had gone into the ER. (He seemed to have been on the mend for a day the morning it happened, but the docs said this sometimes happens)

So perhaps this is what is bothering you? How you feel is totally OK, what you do about it next is up to you. Susan

First of all, you sound like you are a very caring and good parent, so you deserve tremendous credit for that. It also sounds like you could use an outlet for yourself--a realm in which you can feel good about yourself apart from being a wife/mother. Although you say that you do not wish to burden your friends and husband with your feelings, they are the cheapest (and best!) form of therapy. It seems very important that you open up with them to get some support. Do you fear rejection? Do you think you will be thought less of because of these feelings? Perhaps you have a standard for yourself that is perfectionistic and not reasonable. You also sound very torn--that on one hand you should be advancing your career for financial reasons, but on the other hand you really enjoy being a mother.

I can understand how looking for work sounds depressing when perhaps it is not what you really want. Is there anyway for you 1) to accept that perhaps you are not interested in advancing your career as you think you should be and 2) can work part- time so you can spend more time with your child? If you really need to work full-time, perhaps some career counseling could be useful. Could you be having a bit of a mid-life crisis? It really seems that you are judging yourself very harshly, that you think that you should want other than what you have and yet what you have actually might be what you want. It might be helpful to find a way to explore what you think you should have accomplished by now as well as where that might be coming from. Perhaps you could find a support group through a church or other organization that would not cost you any money. In order to find some joy in your l! ife, and to help you address the question of ''what DO I want?'', think back to what you have enjoyed doing in the past (pre-child--perhaps even pre- marriage). What were your hobbies/interests? Is there some way for you to get plugged into something you enjoy doing? To help you with the depression, if you are not doing so already, I would also suggest some kind of do-able exercise--maybe you can incorporate walking with a friend with talking about how you are feeling right now. It is a known fact that endorphins help combat depression.

I have gone through feelings very simlar to yours--especially around the time when I turned 40 and realized that my life was sort of ''set'' in place. I had to accept that it was okay that I had not written a novel or published a scholarly paper or sat on a board or made a 6-digit income. Our culture puts terrible pressures on us all. Sometimes I think we have all the ingredients to be happy, but we don't know it because it does not fit the American ideal of what we think it should be, and that is sad. I hope you can find the answers to your questions. You certainly are not alone. Been there

I read a book recently that helped me think through a lot of my issues with what I want from life -- wish I could say it was a magic bullet, but I don't think there are any. Its called ''I Could Do Anything If I Only Knew What It Was'' by Barbara Sher. She works from the premise that you have a lot to offer and are inherently talented at something (even if you don't think so) and are totally capable of having any kind of life you want; the only trick is to find what you really want (she helps with that) and how to go about achieving it. Idea is that if you apply yourself and find the help you need, you can get there. Its pretty concrete too - not just touchy-feely stuff. I found the book really enlightening, and enjoyed the website/bulletin boards the author set up for discussion. I'm taking a detour right now - got pregnant before I could really focus on finding the career I reall! y want - but still think this book helped me a lot, and the site is FILLED with supportive people who've been (or are) where you are, no matter what your goal or present situation. I wish you luck! Rebecca

You won't necessarily needs medicine forever (though many people do), but even a while on it can help you see past the never-ending unhappiness and address whatever ''life issues'' might be adding to your depression. Remember you are not alone. Wishing you the best. anon.

PS, there was an article in the NY Times magazine a couple of weeks ago called The Opt-Out Revolution which might interest you. Been there, wishing for better for you

Go to your doctor or clinic and talk to them about how you feel. One of the most important lessons I've learned in motherhood is that we absolutely have to stop the world sometimes to take care of ourselves. It's not selfish in the slightest. It's truly what we have to do. Hang in there. Life can look much brighter. Good luck in you journey. anon

Alas, ''normal'' for first-time, stay-at-home-moms with young children these days can often mean ''depressed.'' We're often alone all day because our partners work long hours, our families live far away, & our friends all have jobs & we can't talk with them anyway because they think we have no right to complain when their biological clocks keep ticking & they haven't even found a partner yet & will never be able to afford a house around here. Oh, & by the way, you don't just ''feel like'' you're ''sleepwalking,'' you ARE sleepwalking! Sleep deprivation does that to you. Why else do you think human rights organizations define it as a form of torture? There's nothing ''wrong'' with you as a person or as a mother. The reason your son is so ''adorable'' & so ''full of life & energy'' is because you're a loving mom who basically enjoys mothering. But you do sound awfully depressed & really do need to take care of yourself. Depression isn't some fake, trendy disease for wimpy whiners & folks who watch Oprah. It's a serious but entirely treatable illness & people who feel for whatever reason that they should be able to deal with it themselves without resorting to therapy suffer needlessly. For what it's worth, here are my scattered thoughts:

(1) PUT THE JOB SEARCH ON HOLD FOR NOW: To hell with money. Sure, it sucks being broke, but some things, like you & your family's well-being, are way more important. Financial worries can really distort things, especially when you're feeling depressed. If you've managed to survive on one income until now, maybe you can squeak by a little longer so you can sort things out. A job might not even help your financial situation much, since working outside of the home can prove quite expensive in terms of commuting costs, daycare, tax liability, added stress, etc.

(2) DO TALK TO A THERAPIST: A therapist can help you talk things out, see things more clearly & help you find ways to cope. They can also prescribe medications, & although it's not for everyone, I must admit that Prozac has helped me a LOT. I haven't undergone a magical transformation from a sloppy, moody, hyperactive art chick with a bad attitude to a cheerful, orderly Stepford wife. But it sure does take the edge off things so I have a little mental space for keeping things in perspective & deflecting those corrosive, negative thoughts. And my ability to communicate my feelings in a constructive way, know my limits & solve problems has improved greatly as a result of seeing a therapist.

Most health insurance plans offer mental health benefits. If you don't have insurance, there are sliding scale programs & teaching hospitals that offer affordable options. Since finding a therapist & navigating the health system can prove overwhelming, I also recommend having your partner or a trusted friend sit down with you for moral support & to help you stay on task with your researching & phone calls, etc. The logistics of keeping appointments are challenging, but do- able. I try to schedule appointments for when my husband can stay with my daughter or after school when I can hire a reasonably-priced teenaged sitter (who can either stay at my house with my daughter or come along & play with my daughter in a nearby park). I also often wind up taking my daughter with me for appointments & my psychiatrist, therapist & the office staff are really cool about that. Although this isn't ideal, it's better than not going at all.

(3) GET OUT OF THE HOUSE & MEET OTHER MOMS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD: No matter what kind of social circles you moved in before, you ABSOLUTELY NEED mommy friends with kids who are about your child's age. One cool mommy friend with whom you can visit, plan outings, trade favors, laugh with & talk about pretty much *any*thing can make a world of difference. Even more casual friendships with other moms with kids of similar ages can make your life much more fun. Eventually, you & the mom you keep seeing at the park will take turns watching the little ones while the other one sneaks off to grab a couple cups of coffee or actually use the restroom ALONE. Finally, the day will come when one of your mommy friends drops by during one of those dreaded late afternoons that drag on & on & the two of you enjoy adult conversation & a nice glass of wine or cup of tea while the little monsters trash the living ! room. From that point on, everything somehow gets much better. It's hard to drag your sorry a** out of the house, take your child to the park or library or wherever stay-at-home parents hang out, strike up conversations, exchange phone numbers & call people up for outings & play dates when you feel so horrible you want to crawl under a rock & die. It was even hard for me, & I'm an extremely extraverted person. But the effort is well worth it. I've made some wonderful new friends & I didn't know a single one of them when I first moved here a couple of years ago. And now I can enjoy hanging out with friends from my previous life without wishing they understood what I'm going through.

If you're scared of rejection, try to remember that most new moms feel isolated & enjoy being invited to do things (even if they can't go or have trouble getting out of the house) & also feel shy about reaching out.

(4) LIVE CHEAP, LIVE WELL (SORT OF): Some moms really need to work outside of the home for personal as well as financial reasons. But going back to work often feels conflicted & wrenching even for women who totally love their jobs, have strong career ambitions, AND really need the money in order to pay the rent & put food on the table. In your situation, I think going back to work would stress you out & make you more unhappy. I would sit down with your husband to work out a budget & cut as many corners as possible so you can afford to stay home. Do you really need Cable TV? Or to buy books instead of borrowing from the library? Or new clothes, toys, housewares, etc. when you can buy them from a thrift store or yard sale? Can you lower your monthly bills by conserving energy, changing your calling plans, switching insurance providers, etc.? Can your husband brown bag his lunch instead of grabbing! a sandwich from the deli next door? Can you save more on groceries by buying in bulk, taking advantage of sales, etc. Can you buy memberships to museums & facilities you frequent (like SF MOMA, Habitot or Lawrence Hall of Science) so you don't have to pay every time? You'll be amazed at what you can cut back on or do without & still live well. Although rents & mortgages are insanely expensive around here, we're blessed with lots of beautiful parks, good public libraries with fun programs for kids, free or inexpensive events, etc. for grownups as well as kids.

(5) FIND SOME AFFORDABLE PART-TIME DAYCARE: It's good for toddlers & preschoolers to socialize & enjoy activities & learning opportunities within a structured & regular settings. And it's good for you to have some free time that you can count on each week. Options include trading off with another mom, a good home daycare provider in a less expensive neighborhood, a daycare coop, or a coop playgroup are all good options.

(6) SLEEP IN ONCE A WEEK: On Saturday mornings, have Daddy take your son out for a couple hours so they can bond while you catch up on some sleep or burrow under the covers & read.

(7) DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF ON A REGULAR BASIS: You need to re-energize & have something to look forward to every week. It can be something simple but luxurious, like a massage or manicure, or hanging out with the girls, sipping coffee in a cafe while scribbling in your notebook. Or you can take a class. Your local YMCA has lots of exercise & yoga & dance classes & a Child Watch program where you can drop off your son & where he'll have a good time. I've also heard about a Yoga school with Child Watch services. Or you can take inexpensive courses in things that interest you through your local community college or adult education program in the evenings when your husband will (hopefully) be home.

(8) CUT BACK ON HOUSEWORK AND/OR OTHER TASKS YOU HATE OR THAT TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR TIME WITH YOUR CHILD: Your floor doesn't need to be clean enough to eat from -- after all, our kids do need to build up their immunity systems ;^). It's okay to serve macaroni & cheese, peanut butter sandwiches, frozen pizza or pre-prepared skillet meals for dinner sometimes instead of making everything from scratch with fresh, organic ingredients all the time. Try using an online bill-paying service (usually available free or cheap from your bank) to automate some of your payments.

Have your son help you with some tasks. Of course this makes tasks take 10 times as long than doing them yourself, but it'll make household chores way more fun & will pay off down the road. I've been pleasantly surprised to find that a toddler (my daughter is 22 months old) can cut soft fruits & vegetables with a blunt plastic knife, put some types of dishes & utensils in the dishwasher, sweep stuff into your dustpan with a tot- sized broom, pick things up from the floor & toss them into a wastebasket or other container, stir things, transfer spoon or cup fulls of ingredients into a bowl, weed the garden (though they may also pull up plants you want along with the weeds), & wipe off a small spill or stain with a sponge. Our house usually looks like a bomb hit it, but at least my daughter & I have fun & I'm (usually) cheerful but exhausted when my husband comes home.

I think that since many of us moms had successful careers before having kids that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to achieve an unattainable level of perfection & that we set goals for ourselves in our new roles as homemakers even though we lack the years of housekeeping, cooking, & childcare experience required to set realistic goals. The fact is that 10, 20 & 30 years from now, you & your family will fondly remember good times spent together & meals & experiences shared, not the sparkling cleanliness of your house or the timely handling of your bills & paperwork. I hope this helps! Believe me, I've been there & have (mostly) made it through. And please feel free to email me. if you want or need to chat. Been There, Done That!