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Bipolar Children
Sept 2011
Does anyone have experience with either UCSF or Stanford with treatment of a
young child exhibiting bipolar symptoms? Have heard great things about Kiki
Chang at Stanford but was wondering if the department and experience overall
is worth the drive to Palo Alto. Thanks!
anon
I am replying to a post about a young child exhibiting bipolar
symptoms-UCSF or Stanford. My experience with my child who was
diagnosed at the age of five and has been to Stanford, UCSF,
Children's Oakland (CHO) and other places for diagnostic purposes
is: I would recommend that you see Andrew Giammona, MD at CHO.
Currently he is the department head so it may take some time to get
in, but he is smart, thorough, patient, persistent, and caring.
When he takes on your case you and your child are his concern. You
have not entered into a ''clinic'' setting like Stanford or UCSF.
We went to those places for second and third opinions with Dr. G's
blessings after several years of very difficult times with
medications not working and he welcomed the opinions of other
minds. He does not allow ego to get in the way of the care of his
patients. He is a remarkable Dr. My son is still seeing him ten
years later! I can't say enough about him! Blessings to you and
your family on this journey!
J.
Dec 2010
I'm very worried about my 3-year-old son's extreme reactions
in public. On a lesser note, I'm often embarrassed and
frustrated by him and feel confused whether I should avoid
most social situations with him for now. His specific
behaviors include tantruming, aversion to people talking to,
touching or approaching him. Tonight we went to a birthday
party at a kids gym. I was hyper-vigilant with him and did
my best to remove him as soon as he began to tantrum (when
someone picked him up from a chair he was sitting in and I
couldn't get to him in time). I'm probably going to get
suggestions to check for autism or sensory processing
disorder, but I should say that I have a 5-year-old girl who
had this same social aversion and tendency to tantrum. She
has pretty much outgrown this behavior, but not before I had
her evaluated by the Regional Center and by a few
occupational therapists who finally concluded that nothing
was disordered in her.
Like most parents with children with undiagnosed disorders
or whatever this is, I am so worried. I'm even worried that
nothing may be wrong with my boy and I'm worrying for
nothing (again)! I have talked to my child's experienced
preschool teacher, but she isn't worried. He has tantrums
and angry outbursts with her. Like me, she stands firm with
her discipline, and often gets good results from him as I do
at home. Public outings are problematic. I'd probably avoid
them more if I wasn't trying to meet my daughter's needs,
too. My son chews at his fingernails now. He screams when we
give him notice that we are going out. We do our very best
to allow him to approach the new situation when he is ready.
If only I could put a sign on him that says, ''Slow to warm.
Please don't approach. I will approach you.'' Sigh.
My last fear is a big one. My husband's father is bipolar,
and his sister was recently diagnosed bipolar. I wish I
could stop there. On my side of the family, both my half
brothers (not related to each other by blood), have been
diagnosed bipolar. I only knew about one half-brother and
the grandfather before we decided to have children. I'm
getting a bit terrified by the odds now. Is it even possible
for a preschooler to be bipolar? Is it a mistake to diagnose
at this age? I am prepared to go to my boy's pediatrician
(She's new to us and with Kaiser), but I'd like to know of
anyone who has experienced something like this behavior in a
very young child. I'm frankly reluctant to tell her our
family history and have Kaiser misdiagnose my son or suggest
medication.
Beyond Worried
Hi, I can't speak to the question about bipolar disorder.
However, my son has had anxiety issues starting around age
3. Some of the things you mentioned, such as being touched
by strangers, would cause him to completely freak. I
remember feeling that same thing you mentioned: if only I
could put a sign on him that says ''please don't touch.''
We went to a psychiatrist for 2 years to help us all learn
coping techniques for anxiety. One of the many helpful
things the doctor taught us is that the child has a right to
decide who can touch him, and has a right to not be touched
if he doesn't want to be touched. This seems pretty obvious
when I say it, but as you know, adults regularly assume that
it's OK to touch strange children.
I have a few suggestions:
1.. rethink the term ''tantrum'' and replace it in your mind
with ''panic attack'' or ''freakout'' or something that feels
less like a power struggle. I wouldn't think of it as a
discipline issue.
2.. consistently push against your child's anxieties, but
only to the extent that he can handle - otherwise it won't
be therapeutic. For example, if he doesn't want to go to a
party, convince him to at least walk up the front steps. If
that is too hard, have him touch the front gate and count to
10. Repeat it until it's easy, and then try to take it one
step further. We spent literally hundreds of days outside
of friends' houses or outside of parties or events that my
son was too anxious to enter, taking one or or two steps.
Gradually over about 2-3 years he was able to do most things
''normally'' again.
3.. defend your son's right to choose who touches him, who
kisses him etc.. I started telling strangers that he's ill
and can't be touched, and I even tried saying that he was
immunocompromised. Eventually I was more honest and said
bluntly ''he doesn't like to be touched.''
4.. Anxiety can masquerade as other things. If he's acting
angry or evasive, hostile, etc., it might be because he's
putting up barriers, trying to avoid something he's anxious
about. For example, my son would get super uptight about
what clothes to wear, but really he was stalling because he
was anxious about going to school. So keep your eyes open
because it's easy to miss this - and understanding it makes
it much less maddening.
A good doctor can help a lot. things are much better for my
son now. good luck to you,
mom of worrier
Your concerns about your son are well placed and certainly
understandable. If members on both sides of the family have
been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder, then the risks of
his (or your daughter as well) having this is certainly
higher than it would be for a child without this family
history. It is not a certainty, however. Some mental
health professionals are all too eager to use a diagnosis
like this one as 'an answer' to the challenges a child this
age presents because it makes things easier and more readily
solved. Eg, with medication. BUT in my 30 years of
experience as a psychologist a child should not be diagnosed
with this, or any other disorder except for
Autism/Asperger's, at this age. It would be a good idea,
though, for you to get some help to figure out how, and how
much, you can help your son get through these anxieties he
has in the next few years. He might turn out 'fine' as you
daughter has. Or he might need ongoing help thru his
childhood. But getting him evaluated and some help NOW
while he is still younger and more amenable to change is the
best route to go.
Richard
Please, please, don't panic. What you describe sounds
entirely and completely normal and common to me. Both my
children had every single behavior you describe, and no one
ever suggested to me that it was anything to worry about in
terms of their mental health (now, what it did to mine...
just kidding). Three is such a hard age. Both of my kids
seemed to just flip out and switch personalities. It was
hard, hard, hard and often embarrassing. They sometimes
freaked out if they were just looked at. I used to say the
same thing about putting a sign on them telling people not
to try to talk to them. They had huge tantrums-- one of
them very, very frequently and over nothing. Their mood
flipped from happy to outrage in a split second over
nothing. One started to outgrow it in 6 months and the
other took a longer, slower path, but is now 5 and doing
great. I can understand that your family history has you
more worried than you would otherwise be, but please
reassure yourself that what you describe is nothing more
than normal (awful!) 3-year-old behavior and mood swings.
It is so difficult, but with patience and understanding,
you'll be fine. If your son's teacher isn't worried, I
truly believe you have nothing to worry about.
-''Terrible Twos'' got nothing on the ''Terrorizing Threes''
Your son sounds perfectly normal to me. All kids are
different, my son had temper-tantrums at that age, whereas
my others didn't. I would not label him as bipolar or
having a social anxiety, I would label him as a ''normal 3
year old''
mom of 3 boys
Your son is fine. And he's three. And before you take him to his
pediatrician, or a psych doc, please read this
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201012/do-psychiatric-medications-impair-normal-brain-development/comments
And proceed with caution.
Anon
I can't speak to an inherited mental health history [my son
is adopted, and we aren't completely certain of his], but I
sure can commiserate about how incredibly hard it is to have
a child with such severe social anxiety. Our 9 year old has
exhibited behavior similar to what you described since he
was about 3 also, with age 4 - 6 being the toughest [steel
yourself]. He still has his issues, and times can still be
tough, but the tantrums are fewer and shorter, and we've
gotten better at understanding his needs. He still has a
hard time handling crowds, newness, or changes in routine,
but since we're all better at pre-empting the problem
situations, things are less likely to erupt into the
surprise tantrum. Less a tantrum these days than a blast of
an emotional response. I feel really sorry for him, because
he recognizes that he has a harder time than most people,
but it's getting better as he matures. By the way, his
ultra-sensitivity has some perks. He feels things,
including love, very intensely.
-mom
We were very concerned about our son and his behavior from
a very early age. We sought many opinions from
professionals but always did a lot of reading and thinking
for ourselves and were reluctant to use medication unless
it really seemed the wisest thing to do. We discovered
that our horribly acting child was experiencing headaches,
but not able to tell us so. They were a migrane like
headache with a feeling of malaise, but not head pounding
at all so he did not ever say his head hurt. Also, he
felt sick when he ate any soy products, like soy sauce,
soy oil or tofu or soy milk. We never did use medication
in our case but noticed that omega 3 fish oil (high
quality-Ultimate omega from Nordic Naturals) helped a lot
with his focus on school work. So my suggestion is to try
to rule out any food sensitivites and other factors like
headaches before making a mental health diagnoses.
Best of luck to you
anon
May 2010
After reviewing posts from 2003 and 2004, I decided to
post my plea for help: my daughter is 7, and has been
diagnosed by 2 different Kaiser psychiatrists as having a
mood disorder. They are reluctant to actually label it
Bipolar, but in confidence, both docs have said that that
is what it is. My daughter is on Risperdal for the
aggression (seems to be working nicely), and after trial
and error of several different mood stabilizers, is
currently beginning a trial of low-dose Lamictal (no idea
so far, just 2 days in). Of course, her mood swings are
problematic, but now her oppositional behavior is also
becoming problematic, both at home and at school
(elementary school in the West Contra Costa School
District). I am having trouble with the I.E.P. and
possibly requesting an aide; we've gone through the first
steps, including requesting formal evaluation from the
school's psychologist (in class) to better understand what
her needs are, but nothing has been done! It's been
almost 3 months since the intial meeting! Also, I am
furious with Kaiser because although I keep requesting
bimonthly one-on-one talk-therapy sessions with a female
provider for my daughter, all they are willing to commit
to is the group therapy, which is not helpful at all!
(The meds doctor is fantastic, however; she's been a real
saving grace through all of this. And, for a while, my
daughter had a fantastic therapist, but since she's gone
on maternity leave, all hell's broken loose!) Also,
encouragement by the psych and MD's for behavior
modification is lovely and all, but what am I to do about
the actual moment where she's screaming and aggressive,
and she really doesn't care that about consequences? She
refuses to do her homework, refuses to do just about
anything, freaks out at the word ''No'', and then add the
irrational fears and mood swings that happen at the drop
of a hat, and it's just horrid! (She's an intelligent,
loving, sweet, sensitive, caring, humorous little girl
with real problems; I love her, and desperately want to
get her more help!) I am trying to be patient with the
school, and with Kaiser, but am feeling like there has to
be more: more help for her, and more support for ME and my
husband as parents of a bipolar child! The online support
group I am a part of is great, but I need real live
people, too! Also, I have tried 3 different times, a few
weeks apart--leaving detailed messages about the issue and
clearly stating my name, phone number, and being a self-
pay person--to Children's Hospital Psychiatry (reputably a
fantastic resource in the Bay Area), with absolutely no
response back. Reprehensible! I understand they are
busy, even backlogged, but really--all I can say is thank
goodness my child isn't suicidal! The bottom line is that
I am appalled by the lack of help for my child and for
myself. As a parent who is trying to be proactive with
these issues, especially for the school's sake, I am
extremely frustrated by the whole situation! I have a 3rd
Student Success Team meeting (2nd for the I.E.P.?) with
the school next Tuesday, and nothing I requested has been
done! The teacher is a saving grace: she has been
patient, and instrumental in implementing a small star
chart to try the behavior modification route, but that
patience (understandably!) seems to have been exhausted!
Even after contacting the Special Ed department as a last
resort, AND faxing a written letter to the Special Ed
department, the district Psych dept, and the elementary
school itself, I still haven't gotten anywhere! I would
appreciate any and almost all advice here: recommendations
for docs for therapy, within or outside of Kaiser, as well
as support groups for parents of young children with mood
disorders. (I can appreciate well-meaning people who
suggest another opinion, but as I have already had 2, and
have lived with my daughter's problems since she was a
toddler, I am confident of the diagnosis, and the
necessity for medication as well as therapy.) I apologize
if it seems like I'm ranting, but well, I am. I am angry
and frustrated, with good reason! I feel like I'm
spinning my wheels with Kaiser, and trying to find help
via the web is throwing up nothing! I am imploring the
Berkeley Parent's Network for help, please!
I'm so sorry you are having such a struggle. I can
imagine it's overwhelming and upsetting. My son may be on
the high-functioning end of the Autism spectrum. I was
surprised, with how much awareness-raising there is around
autism, that when you approach doctors and try to get
help, no one knows what steps you should take, and the
doctors who provide diagnoses on the health insurance
plans have a 1 year wait. You need help and everything
seems to move in slow motion.
Two suggestions -
Call Eileen who is the director of the Family Resource
Network in Oakland. 510-547-7322
If what you are dealing with isn't covered under their
services, they would definitely help connect you with the
right resources. Make and appointment, go in and sit down
and talk with her. I got so many great insights from her
about how to navigate the system and get the right help
for my son; also how to navigate the school system and
IEPs. They can attend meetings and advocate -- and help
you become and advocate for your daughter.
This is their mission statement:
''The purpose of the Family Resource Network is to support
and encourage the positive development of families of
children with a disability or special health care need.
FRN provides family-friendly information and training to
help families access specialized education and health care
for their children. FRN also offers parent to parent
support from another parent who has 'been there'.''
http://www.frnoakland.org/
Second suggestion - get an advocate to work with you on
the school and IEP issues. By law, you can have this
person attend meetings with you and advocate on your
daughter's behalf. Sounds like the people you're trying
to work with need a push. Go onto
http://www.education.com/ and do a search about
advocates. There are a lot of great articles.
I hope you find your answers, and some help. Asking for
help is the right thing to do.
K
This sounds incredibly frustrating, and you are doing the
right thing by seeking additional support and treatment.
Children's Hospital is a great resource but like many
clinics overwhelmed by the demand versus supply. Two other
east bay clinics you could try are the Ann Martin Center
in Piedmont, and WestCoast Children's Clinic in El Cerrito
and Oakland. An excellent child therapist in private
practice is Kate White, MFT. She's in the Piedmont area.
(408)396-5237. Perhaps with greater stability and one-on-
one treatment, maybe a little more maturity, the group
sessions will be of more use to her. The Child and
Adolescent Bipolar Foundation website is an excellent
resource for information, support and advocacy.
www.bpkids.org. Best of luck to you and your family.
Ilene
I am so sorry for all you and your family are going through
and so glad that your daughter has such a great advocate in
you. I am wondering if you have ever talked to anyone at
DREDF. (Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund). They
help individual families get the right IEPs and services for
their children and they MAY also help with access to mental
health services, though I haven't checked that in a while.
Another resource is California's Protection and Advocacy
system, which is now called Disability Rights California.
They do similar work. I wish you the best!
Another mom
I don't know where you're located but we've been working with a private trainer
since our son was 11 yo. and sounded alot like you described your son (now he's
13 yo, Aspergers). I can't say enough wonderful things about his trainer- Luis.
He's a young guy so our son can relate very well to him. he has been patient,
kind and our son's fitness level and self-esteem have improved dramatically.
He's also been a wonderful mentor to our son. Check out www.fithab.com or call
650-454-7979. He comes to our home and it's pricey but totally worth every
penny!
Hope that helps.
BTDT
I missed your original post, but have a good idea of what it
said. I have a 10-year old bipolar child and have been
dealing with all of the ramifications thereof for years.
Here's my advice (sorry if you're already doing this, or
know this): the first priority is to get the child as
medically stable as possible. This is an organic,
biological disease that results in undesirable behaviors.
The behaviors stem from the disease, and will subside, or at
least be treatable, once the underlying medical condition is
addressed.
We have had great success with EMPower Plus
(www.truehope.com), after trialing many, many meds with the
''top'' child psychiatrists. Traditional meds work for some,
but not for my child and caused horrible side effects.
EMPower Plus is quite expensive, and most likely is not
covered by med. insurance. The good news is that you can
work directly with the co. for free and not have to pay a
psychiatrist.
If you prefer to go with a traditional psychiatrist, find
one who works regularly with bpkids. Drs. Paul Abrinko,
Herb Schreier at CHO and Melinda Young have all been
recommended to me. (Dr. Abrinko is WONDERFUL, and works
with EMP, but may not be taking new patients.) I'm taking
my child to see Dr. Scott Shannon in Colorado, who also
works with EMP, and other micronutrient therapies for bp,
anxiety, depression, etc.
If hospitalization becomes necessary, we had good
experiences with John Muir (formerly Mt. Diablo Pavilion) in
Concord under Dr. Kiran Koka's care. Dr. Koka was very
flexible and supportive and willing to work with EMP, rather
than meds -- very unusual. The staff (at least in the
children's wing) was extremely caring and supportive, and
the facilities were pleasant. My child benefitted from the
hospitalizations and it really was nothing to be ashamed of
or to shy away from (far from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
Nest!)
Re psychotherapy, make sure you're working with a therapist
who, again, has extensive experience with bp kids and the
related family issues. Hard to find. Don't bother with any
therapist who hasn't successfully worked with bp kids and
families before. Dr. Ellen Singer in Berkeley is
experienced. She may have other referrals. Dialectical
Behavioral Therapy(DBT)/Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
is the research-based psychotherapy of choice for teens with
bp. The only DBT therapy in the area I know of is at
Clearwater Clinic (http://www.clearwaterclinic.com).
There's a waiting list. Also, read The Explosive Child by
Ross Greene for tips on power struggles, tantrums. If you
haven't read The Bipolar Child by Dr. Demitri Papolos, it's
a Bible.
Re school/IEP issues, contact Donna Gilcher, Ed.D. at
starfishadvocacy.org. She's AMAZING -- used to be the
educational director at Child and Adolescent Bipolar
Foundation (CABP, www.bpkids.org). The absolute best and
works remotely all around the country from her office in
Cleveland. She has changed the trajectory of my child's
academic life from failure to success and really understands
all the learning and school issues that affect bp kids.
Re respite care, contact NAMI, Easter Seals, Family Resource
Center.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, hook up with other parents of bp kids for
support and education. We truly are the most knowledgeable
and informative source of info because we live this 24/7!
CABF (www.bpkids.org) and starfishadvocacy.org (Donna
Gilcher's site) are excellent. There's a local parent
support group for bp kids/teens that meets once per month in
Lafayette, contact, 3kids1dog@comcast.net.
Finally, don't despair. It's a formmidable disease, but
there's hope and support out there. We can definitely
relate to your and your child's distress. I wrote a post a
few years ago begging for help. Help is out there, you just
have to be relentless about finding it! Good luck!
Can Relate
May 2008
Our son has completed a lengthy neurological assessment from someone I have
been very happy with. Results are pointing to therapy in Reactive Attachment
Disorder, and further exploration with a psychiatrist of a BiPolar disorder. Familiar
w/RAD, but am wondering what the experience on the board here is w/Bipolar?
After 13 difficult hours of exams, reluctant to put him through more testing w/yet
another person. Spend more money ($5300 for neuro-psych). Also, don't want to
label him just because we can, or do drugs unless absolutely necessary.
1.) How do I navigate all the information, and conduct my own concise research that
leaves me equipped to advocate for him in an intelligent way?
2.) Any non-drug therapy treatments?
Divorced dad, and I don't agree, and dad does no research but simply let's other's
words be the deciding factor with little critical thinking or exploration. Feeling
like
Bipolar is the new ADHD, and feeling skeptical about jumping on the diagnosis/drug
bandwagon. It's a critical time and don't want this next phase of our son's life to be
forever characterized by an inaccurate reading.
anon
Join a support group at Herrick Hospital on saturdays.
A variety of people; variety of stages of experience.
You may meet a comrade with a young child, facing the
dilemma. Also NAMI meets monthly in the area.
Alameda County Behavioral Health Care Services has many
locations for services.
trying to help
Wow. You have a lot going on and I'm sure you're feeling
completely overwhelmed.
I am offering you my opinion as a mental health professional
(MFT, RDT, CCFC). Please understand that it is only an
opinion.
First I think it is important to know that diagnosing mental
illness is not a concrete science. It is quite possible to get
different diagnoses from every professional you see.
Secondly, there is definitely a growing trend to diagnose
bipolar in children right now. It used to be very rare to see
this diagnosis in children. I have a friend and colleague who
is a psychiatrist working with adolescents and she has told me
that she would not diagnose bipolar in children unless there is
clearly a genetic component (meaning there is a family history
of mental health issues) because it is such a ''big'' diagnosis -
it means pretty heavy duty meds for a lifetime.
Start with intensive therapy. Participate in the treatment
yourself. Learn what communication styles and discipline styles
are most effective for RAD. A good therapist should be able to
help you with this.
I think having him evaluated by a psychiatrist is good. It is
possible that stabilizing him on some medication will help him
make better use of therapy right now. But a diagnosis is one
professionals opinion. Feel free to get a second opinion.
Don't forget to take care of yourself in the process. Your son
needs you to be at your best, so don't put your needs last.
Good luck.
Carrie
While I applaud your desire not to simply go along with what
might seem like a fad diagnosis without confidence in it, there
is a very legitimate school of thought that the genetic potential
in people to develop bipolar disorder is being activated at
younger and younger ages as children are subjected to constant
electronic stimulation. The brain of a person with latent or
active BP disorder does not have the normal capacity to return to
center after being knocked off-center by stress or
overstimulation, it can get stuck there and lead to depression or
mania.
As someone whose bipolar disorder II began to manifest in my
early 20s, which is classically the most common time of life for
that to happen, this postulation makes perfect sense to me- it
just feels right on.
I am old enough that when I was a kid life was much slower and
relaxing for children- we weren't subjected to all the kinds of
demands and stimulation that children are now. I myself am very
sensitive to things like extended bright light, and pounding loud
noise like heavy metal rock music. When I was in college, the
strobe lights that were popular made me feel crazy.
At the suggestion of a psychiatrist, when I find myself feeling
like I might be headed toward hypomania, if I live with the
natural patterns of light and dark for awhile (no electric
lights, just candle or oil lantern light after dark), it calms me
down and I can bring myself back to center. While that may sound
extreme and difficult to pull off, it's a very relaxing and
charming experience to live that way, and you'd be surprised how
much you can do by just candle and lantern light!
That doctor believed in the school of thought that BP disorder
began to manifest in vulnerable people more frequently after the
advent of electric light because of the increased brain
stimulation. Given that my own great-grandfather manifested it at
the time in history, I find that quite believable.
This theory is explored in this article along with a study
conducted on the subject:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/darkrx.htm which is a
link of of this resource site on BP:
Since it ultimately saved me, I believe in medication when it is
in the hands of a skilled psychiatrist who really knows how to
diagnose the disorder and when it is necessary to bring about
remission. I encourage you, having already gone this far, to
continue on to the psychiatric evaluation. Langley-Porter
Institute at UCSF Medical School is a good place to get a
thorough evaluation in an up-to-date setting at a reasonable
cost. Stanford Medical School also has an excellent Mood
Disorders Clinic.
In the meantime, you might want to experiment with reducing the
amount of stress and electronic stimulation in your child's life
to the degree that you are able, whether or not your doctors are
into this approach. You might want to try out the ''Dark Therapy''-
it can't hurt, and it's natural. High daily doses of Omega-3 fish
oils have also been proven to improve stability in BP disorder,
another non-drug therapy.
While it may be obvious, I'll mention that the stress of a
divorce can be extreme enough for a child to set off a latent
psychiatric disorder, and it sounds like there is continuing
stress as you and your husband disagree over where to go from here.
Best of luck to you and your son.
Anon
I do not know about RAD but I have several friends/relatives with
bipolar or cyclothemia, the gentler version of bipolar. I would
highly recommend ''The Bipolar Child: The Definitive and
Reassuring Guide to Childhood's Most Misunderstood Disorder'' by
Demitri and Janice Papolos. It's a pretty serious book, but it
sounds like you are ready to do some studying, which is good! It
is good to diagnose bipolar sooner than later if possible. There
are some things that can help if this is what he has.
Just as an aside - it seems like the list of behaviors associated
with bipolar in children can also be a list of behaviors from
sexual abuse. You might want to check out ''Miss America by Day:
Lessons Learned from Ultimate Betrayals and Unconditional Love''
by Marilyn Van M. Derbur (the end of the book in particular) to
know what kind of questions to ask your son to make sure that
isn't or wasn't a problem.
From your post, it seems like your child is in good hands with
you. Keep fighting for him and good luck.
Laura
June 2004
I just glanced at a book about bipolar children and was shocked
to find how well this described my 6 year old daughter. Things
are getting worse with her angry rages becoming more frequent,
interspersed with her being the most loveg, affectionate,
outgoing child I know. My question is, what do I do now? I
have no idea. Do I get her evaluated? Should I be asking for
Recommendations instead of Advice? I don't have health
insurance, but I can get some if she is going to need some kind
of therapy. What I don't want is for her to be labeled bipolar
if she isn't. What would happen next? Am I supposed to tell
her school? She seems to be mostly okay at school. Help!
Shocked and Confused
Hi,
It's great that you're aware of the possibility of bipolar, but before
you get
overly concerned, I do want to state that all 6 years olds have rages
and are
alternatively loving and angry. The fact that your child does not
display these
behaviors outside the home is a very, very important and good sign. I
think
seeking consultation is a good first step, and won't be too damaging to
your
budget, and you can do so first without your child. It will be
important for a
therapist to know what you've already tried, and to suggest new
strategies.
How your child has responded and will respond to these approaches will
be
important information. If you find that after consultation and a period
of time
to evaluate what's going on with the assistance of a professional, that
everything is the same and still worrisome, then an assessment may be
in
order. I encourage you to use some time to gather inform! ation about
when the
rages occur, and to look for any patterns. If you did not have concerns
about
bipolar before, and they originated from the book, I think that is also
a good
sign. If you do not have longterm concerns, I would encourage you to
take
things one step at a time. In general, 6 year olds these days have
demanding
and complex lives and it is not unusual for this to show up at home. As
a
parent of two former 6 year olds, there were moments when I thought
they
were Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Again, I don't want to minimize your
concerns,
but rather, I'd like to encourage you to rule out the developmental
approach
first (before you panic) before the pathological one.
Good luck!
Nancy
I've just been through the whole thing--diagnosis, therapy, other
treatment--and have found wonderful success for my 5-year-old
daughter with nutrition therapy through a clinic outside Chicago.
If you contact me at this e-mail address I'd be happy to share
my experience.
Robin
Before you take your daughter to get evaluated, ask your ped if
it couldn't be simply normal six-year-old behavior. I've talked
to several experts on this topic (in the course of my work) who
told me that six-year-olds often start acting out in ways you
haven't seen since the toddler years. They stomp out of rooms,
scream at you, slam doors, etc. I'm told it's because they're
newly in school and have become keenly aware of where they are
in the pecking! order of things. They're not ''big kids'' yet but
they're not ''little kids,'' either. They see that there are new
social rules of being in kindergarten or first grade, but
they're pretty unsavvy when they try to pull them off. They
feel strongly about everything, and you, the parent, feel the
brunt of their righteous indignation. It passes, the experts
promise. In the meantime, you're just supposed to tow the line
and keep the already set-limits in place. Just a thought to
consider before you open that ''diagnosis'' door.
Good luck,
Julie T.
I think the behavior you describe seeing in your daughter is
common and may not necessarily mean that she is bipolar. I
would recommend two things.
1. Consider that children's behavior is almost always a symptom
of something else that is occurring in their lives. I
wholeheartedly recommend you read Hold on to Your Kids by Gordon
Neufeld and Gabor Mati M.D (only available in Canada now at
amazon.ca or visit www.gordonneufeld.com). The authors point out
that children's behavior is
directly rooted in their attachments to their parents and that
when the attachment falters or is threatened their behavior can
change. The authors also directly discuss anger and aggression
(a result of frustration w/ relationships that aren't ''working'')
Addressing the attachment w/ your child is more
important than addressing the behavior itself...the behavior
will fall into line once the attachment is re-solidified. The
book offers a good dose of development psychology as well as
techniques for establishing and maintaining strong att! achments
w/ your children throughout their growing years. Also included
are discipline principles that are accomplished via the
attachment dynamic. The book is not wishy-washy. I wish I
could offer a better synopsis that would encourage you to give
it a read as I would recommend it to any and every parent.
I don't know you or your daughter, of course, so what I've said
above should be taken w/ a grain of salt, I suppose. I have
been reading the book and have found it to have a very positive
impact on my relationship w/ my own ds.
2. See a pediatrician you trust and seek a second opinion if
the doctor recommends meds.
Be loving w/ yourself and your daughter. Best of luck.
Nita
I could have written this post last year! I asked my
daughter's pediatrician who suggested temperment counseling
before the leap to therapy. After filling out a mail-in
survey, we got an appointment with Kaiser's temperment
specialist, Nurse Rona Renner. Rona gave us lots of things to
try as preventative measures and they really worked. If you
are a member of Kaiser this is a free service. If not, maybe
you can investigate other temperment counselors.
Anon
My suggestion is to call Langley Porter Institute (the psychiatric
section) at UCSF and
ask if they evaluate children. They have an Affective Disorders Clinic
where they
offer sliding scale evaluations for adults that are much more extensive
and complete
than you can get fr! om a private psychiatrist without paying thousands
of dollars. If
the don't evaluate children, I'm sure that they can give you leads for
other lower cost
options. Their orientation is to the psychological/therapeutic as well
as the
psychiatric/medical. As a bipolar adult, I know that early evaluation
and treatment is
more effective and successful than waiting until adulthood.
anon
I advise you do get your child evaluated, but don't let her be
labeled as bipolar without thorough evaluation. Our older ADHD
son is subject to rages, and also sweet at other times, but the
'fit' with bipolar is superficial (bipolar rages are
charaterictically very long, destructive, frequent, showing
amazing strength that would exhaust an adult).
From the http://www.bpkids.org/learning/about.htm website:
''However, the illness looks different in children than it does in
adults. Children usually have an ongoing, continuous mood
disturbance that is a mix of mania and depression. This rapid and
severe cycling between moods produces chronic irritability and
few clear periods of wellness between episodes.''
I would look into ADD/ADHD, perhaps combined with sensitivity to
something in her environment (school may be stressing her out,
and she takes it out on you; there may be a hidden dietary
allergy/sensitivity). This CAN cause explosive acting out. It's
hard to manage too, but by identifying issues that cause
problems, it can be managed.
Best of luck to you!
Please don't get caught up with the label. I had to deal with
this about three years ago when a doctor had to give my son an
autism/mental retardation label just so he could get services
from the school district. If I were you, I would be okay with
her getting a label of bipolar if it meant she would get
treatment from the school district.
The school district, if they assess she is bipolar, will give
you the therapy you need at the school site to help her
function. But your concern should be that she is being treated,
not with what they call it.
Hope this helps.
Anonymous
My own daughter was full of apparent rage and then could be
totally spent from some kind of violent ''tantrum'' ... this from
birth, practically. She did not have any discernable problems
at school, other than being shy. We *finally* had her
evaluated when she was eight because I had read enough about
Obesessive-Compulsive Disorder to suspect that she would be
diagnosed with it. She has OCD, and it accounts for much of
the behavior that also looks bipolar, when you read that
literature. If your child is a ''control freak,'' some of the
rage is because she can't control what she needs to control, if
there's something going on underneath, like bipolar disorder,
OCD, or whatever. Here's what I have experienced: if you go
to some kinds of counseling/therapy, you may be pressured for
contact with the child's teachers. If you prefer not to have
her ''labeled,'' do not give permission. I was adamant that a
counselor did not have to talk with my daughter's teachers, and
I know that this counselor felt I was hiding something (the
only thing I was doing was protecting my child from being
labelled!). Some types of therapists seem to automatically
assume problems at home, and will want to treat those problems,
real or imagined, even if you suspect a chemical imbalance or
disorder that is NOT caused by ''family problems.'' Shop
around: not all therapists are a good match for your child
and/or for you. Since you don't have insurance, you don't need
to worry about this, but in case you acquire insurance, you
might want to check: would the process of getting a referral
to a child psychologist (for the purposes of an initial
evaluation) trigger any ''red flags'' within the insurance? In !
my opinion, a medical evaluation will give you peace of mind
and is worth the out-of-pocket expense. You will know, if the
evaluation is medical, what the diagnosis is, what the
treatment options are, and what kinds of therapy, if any, will
be worthwhile. Finally ...... join a support group for
yourself, because dealing with a child who does not fit the
anticipated mold can be exhausting, demoralizing, and
isolating. If you can get validation that others have the same
experience, you will not only benefit from what they share
about treatments, etc., you will also have much-needed empathy.
Best of luck to you
I worked as a special educator for 10 years in public school systems in
CA and MA.
My advice to you is to pursue an evaluation through your child's
pediatrician. The
pediatrician probably can not diagnose whether your child is bipolar or not and you
will likely be referred to a specialist. If your pediatrician
dismisses your concerns, I
would insist on some referrals to specialists... you can't
self-diagnose and the
sooner your child is diagnosed (or not) the sooner you'll know what
action to take.
It sounds like even if she isn't bipolar, she has some behavioral
issues that need to
be dealt with. It may take several weeks/months to get in to see a
specialist. I
would recommend that you try to see someone who has experience
diagnosing/
treating children rather than adults. I would also recommend that you
get medical
insurance ASAP, as you don't know what course you will be taking once
you start
down this path, but if she is bipolar she will likely need treatment,
which may
include therapy and medication. You do not have to let the school know
what's
going on if/until you have a diagnosi! s... but once you do, you would
likely want to
meet with your child's teacher and then likely the special education
team. They
should be willing to help implement the needed behavioral
plan/intervention as
recommended by the outside evaluator (specialist). The school may
offer some kind
of on-site counseling which may help your daughter cope at school,
depending on
her needs. The in-school stuff can be handled with a 504 plan unless
she is found
to also have learning disabilities in which case they'll do some of
their own
evaluating and write up an IEP (Individualized Educational Plan) and
she'll get direct
special education services... but all this IEP stuff only if her
problems are affecting
her ability to learn. I'm sure all this seems overwhelming. Begin by
pursuing an
evaluation. In addition to calling your pediatrician, you might call
the Ann Martin
Center in O! akland... if they can't do the evaluation, they can likely
point you in the
right direction. Best of luck.
a special educator
Feb 2004
Is anyone out there dealing with a young child (6-11 yr range)
who has been diagnosed as being bipolar? I need help. Any
recommendations you could provide regarding treatment, Doctors,
therapies that worked, special parenting classes, medication,
etc. would be greatly appreciated. I would really like to find
a support group (face-to-face) in Oakland, Berkeley (or even
SF). I am feeling overwhelmed with concern for my child's well
being. Thank you very much.
Help!
I don't have experience with Bipolar Disorder, but just want to
suggest that you get another opinion. My child has a social
anxiety disorder that is VERY often misdiagnosed. Fortunately
I've done a lot of my own researach on his stuff so I know for
sure (and knew for sure) before anyone else made any diagnosis.
So often symptoms can overlap and diagnosis can be incorrect.
Good luck to you.
anon
There is a support group for parents of children with mental
illness run by NAMI at a church on the corner of Marin and
(Stannage?) in Albany on the third Tuesday of the month from 7-9
PM. It's truly a wonderful group. Call East Bay NAMI for the
exact location.
Another parent
There's a book called ''If your! Child is Bipolar,'' by Cindy
Singer and Sheryl Gurrentz, published by Pespective Publishing.
You can probably get it on Amazon. It's got a lot of good
information and advice that might prove a good jumping-off
point for you. Good luck!
Julie T.
Call Berkeley Mental Health about support groups. I know there
is one that meets Tuesday evening for parents of bipolar
children. I think mostly the children are over 18 years old but
the facilitator may know of another group for parents of younger
kids. Good luck. It's wonderful you are reaching out for
support.
anon
My son has been on Depakote since August, though Kaiser has not
officially diagnosed him as pipolar, because he fits the
criteria for both ADHD-Hyperactive and bipolar. In any event,
he's moody and difficult to manage at times. I don't have a! ny
solutions, I'm looking for an NPS school for him. He doesn't
have any LD and is very bright.
Max's Mom
Hi,
first of all, with the right medication, your kid will not even
notice he/she is bipolar.
Second, I know of a wonderful doctor who used to be a
pediatrician and now is a psychiatrist. She is a very positive
and very capable woman.
Her name is Virginia Blacklidge, she works in Kensington, and
her number is (510) 525-9116.
Good luck to you.
anon.
While our child does not have Bipolar Disorder, we are part of a parent
support
group which includes 2 families with children with this diagnosis. Feel
free to
email me for more info.
Zach
Hi,
I wonder if your child is taking medication? I'm an Alexander
Technique teacher and develompmental psychologist who works with
adults and children in a holistic, body oriented way. My
approach with children entails a series of physical, mental and
emotional exercises which encourage a child to relax. An
awareness of the breath and body develops, so when the swings
come the child can learn to consciously relate to the stress of
it through his/her own body.
Sincerely,
Susan
You might be interested in attending the workshop that Kiki
Chang, MD is doing in a few Bay Area locations at the end of
this month/ beginning of next month. He is a Stanford doc & is
an expert on childhood & adolescent bipolar disorder. I work in
adolescent psychiatry & several of the doc's that I work with
speak very highly of him & his work. Email me if you are
interested in more information.
Romy
April 2003
Does anyone know of a good therapeutic day school for a bipolar
fourth grader? Or of any highly recommended residential
programs? Has anyone taken part in a residential study where the
child was taken off their medications? Did the pros outweigh the
cons? The last question is: Does anyone have personal experience
with the Lincoln School in Oakland? Would it be appropriate for
a gifted fourth grade with emotional problems? How are the
staff? academics?
I don't know specifically of a good therapeutic day school for a
4th grader, but I can recommend the NAMI support group for
parents of kids with mental illness. There are people there
who know quite a bit about residential and therapeutic placements
in the area.
The group meets on the third Tuesday of the month, from 7-8:45
at the Albany United Methodist Church, 980 Stannage Avenue at
Marin.
If you would like to talk more with me, call me.
A Mom
Feb 2003
I am looking for a psychiatrist for bipolar disorder.We were assigned a psychiatrist on an emergency basis and are not too happy
with him and want to find someone else to handle his medication and therapy. Does anyone have a recommendation for a psychiatrist *on the Pacificare Behavioral Health* list?
Thanks.
Anonymous
I don't know if he takes your insurance, but Shane McKay did
very well diagnosing and prescribing for my stepdaughter who has
bipolar.
anon
I have experience seeing Rick Trautner MD for bipolar. I recommend him highly for medication management. He is very knowledgeable and up to date on new and old medications. I have also found him to be extremely easy to talk to. He also takes PacifiCare!!! You can reach him at: 510 649-1592. He is located in Berkeley on Dwight Way, across from Alta Bates.
Anon
Bipolar Teens
Jan 2008
Our fourteen-year-old is crashing and
burning. He is constantly angry, steals from us, has few friends because he's
verbally abusive, is purposely failing in school (even though he's tested off the
charts). After years of seeing different therapists and doctors, I think I need a
team
approach. My sister's son has autism and she's had therapists come in who've made
a real difference. How do I compile a bipolar-knowledgeable team to come to our
home and help with his meds, his physical exercise, his relationship issues? I know
this may be dreaming on my part but I think a team of people could really help him
and I'm not sure the alternative our psychiatrist is suggesting (sending him to a
special school) will be best as he is adopted and already has abandoment issues. I
would love your expertise and suggestions to throw this kid a lifeline before he
gets
in big trouble.
Mom who knows Mom is not enough
My daughter is adopted & bipolar. I don't know about someone
coming to your house, but our family sees Virginia Keeler Wolf,
a family therapist.
Virginia focuses on adoption issues and has been much more
helpful than our psychiatrist on how to deal with our
daughter's bipolar issues. Everytime I see Virginia I walk in
with the weight of the world on my shoulders and then walk out
with a plan of attack & a positive attitude. Try her, she's
great!
I know what it's like & it's not pretty.
You do not mention whether your son is fully medicated (for his
bipolar disorder) or not. Generally speaking, ''talk therapy'' or
other psychotherapeutic interventions, are not helpful in
bipolar patients who are not properly medicated. In fact,
such ''talk therapy'' may even make the bipolar behavior worse.
Also, the use of certain ''stimulant'' drugs (either
antidepressants or stimulants themselves) in the absence of
proper medication for mood stabilization, can aggravate bipolar
behavior.
Please discuss this with the psychiatrist (M. D.) who is
managing the medications.
Robert
Please contact Dr. Koran at Stanford Hospital's Department of
Psychiatry. They have excellent adolescent psychiatry and it is
worth the trip.
I know that everyone has different experiences and no one person
or group is 100% effective, but he is definately worth a try.
mom who knows
This isn't what you asked for, but how sure are you that your
son's diagnosis is correct? He does sound like he has some
bipolar symptoms, but those behaviors could be due to something
else. If your sister's child has autism, you might ask a
professional to rule out an autism spectrum disorder in your son,
like Asperger's. (There's a strong genetic component to autism
spectrum disorders.) I'll be curious to hear if others know of
therapeutic team members who come to the house.
A mother and professional in the field
There are programs called ''wrap around'' where social workers and
such come into the home to help with ''issues'' I'm not sure what
the qualifications are for such a program, but you can call
either Fred Finch Youth Center or Seneca Center, both have
programs in Oakland and other Counties. They would know
where/how to direct you.
Good Luck
I have a therapist (psychologist) named Rebecca Epstein, who treats me
for bipolar
disorder, and I truly love her. She has a lot of experience with
children and with
families, is VERY in touch with research and developing knowledge, is
clearly and
competently driven by the desire to help people, and knows psychiatrists
and
psychopharmacologists well enough to have chosen her recommendations to
people
based on their individual personalities and cases. She helped make
suggestions for
my brother-in-law, without seeing him, regarding psychiatrists who are
familiar
with his (unrelated) circumstances, can make home visits, etc. Her
husband, Robert,
is also a psychiatrist in the same office.
I'm not sure whether she's listed, but her outgoing message did not say
anything
about not taking new patients, last time I called. If you don't find
her otherwise, feel
free to email me and I'll see whether I can put you in touch with her.
jmlynn@calpoly.edu
The Bodin Group in Lafayette uses a team approach
http://www.thebodingroup.com/ -- they serve as consultants,
monitors, and advocates for kids and their families. Their focus
is on residential programs, but they have a range of expertise
and relationships with a wide variety of professionals, so they
may be able to help your son. I'm sure they'll let you know if
their services are not a good fit with your intuitions.
mom with son in a Bodin-monitored program
''Parenting Your Out-of-Control Teenager--7 Steps to reclaim authority
and
reestablish love'' by Scott Sells describes how to put a team of family,
school,
community into place to support your efforts to keep your teen alive and
on track.
He says sending kids away places the authority there, outside the
family. So the
same problems start again when the kid comes home because the authority
issues
haven't been dealt with where the kid lives permanently. The best part
is he advises
ways to show love as well as work on the out-control-behaviors. He also
has a
website called The Savannah Family Institute where you can get info
about his
approach. Even though my child (also adopted and bright) is only a
pre-teen, his
book and approach were the first to actually deal with the burgeoning
behaviors--
defiance, stealing, lying, physical violence against parents--and give
me hope that
my child won't end up in jail or murdering family members (no joke).
Good luck.
I have been where you are and by learning the hard way, I am not there
with my now
three other teens. In my opinion (which along with three bucks will buy
you a latte)
there are five KEY elements that you need to focus on:
1) Release this ''abandonment issue'' as a valid crutch to not setting
powerfully
loving boundaries. If picking coffee amoungst the peasants in Costa
Rica is what he
needs, you are not abandoning him. We did not show our first that we
cared
enought to send him to resilience training as we fell victim to the
''abandoned''
game. Now he is in Iraq and quite possibly emotionally irretrievable.
There are several teen programs that I would recommend: Outward bound,
cross
ventures, etc... Go on line to find the right one.
2) Get a fresh horse. The stream is too strong. Call in your brother,
father,
minister. He needs to see some MAJOR strength in you and his tribe. He
is
watching.
3) Get the best therapist specifically for his age. Karen Sprinkel @
Clearwater in
Oakland is an amazing woman that undertands the teen boy.
4) remind your son EVERY DAY that you are positive this is finite, that
every teen
experiences some disequilibrium, and that you will both look back on
this and
laugh. There is NO REASON to not have confidence in his ability to
rebound.
5) Call on the power of your parents, grandparents, great grandparents
and imigrant
ancestors that live dormant in you. They did all this without meds.
Most
importantly, remember THEY are with you.
reenie
December 2006
Am wondering if there are any support groups in the Bay Area for parents/families who have a
teenager who has been
diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder? Our daughter sees a
therapist and is on medication, has been hospitalized, but
no one seems to have any recommendations for a support
group. She's struggled with depression and cutting as well
the past few years.
It is an often lonely journey for families and to be able
to talk to other parents who are living with this illess
24/7 would be extremely helpful. This has also affected
our son who worries about his sister and sees her mood
swings regularly. We've been very honest with him about
her illness as we don't want to add to the stigma that
exists about not talking about mental/nervous disorders. We
go to family therapy, which is helpful, but sometimes it
would just be nice to sit down and chat with other
families.
I've read and done alot of research on the subject, but to
be able to sit down with others on occasion would help my
husband and I to know that we aren't alone in this journey
with our daughter.
Thanks for any suggestions
anonymous
For the parents looking for a support group:
http://www.geocities.com/BerkBipolar/
I attended this group a few times early in 2006 when my
duaghter's 18 year old boyfriend was diagnosed with this
illness. It's run by ''consumers'', folks with bipolar
disorder, many of whom are in fairly good medication
control, but who have horror stories to tell. They break
into groups, usually 3 groups of consumers only, and one
group for family/friends and consumers together. Daughter
and BF attended with me once and we were in the mixed
group, which was the only way they could stay together.
His reaction was that there was no one there he connected
with except a young woman in her early 20's. It was really
heartbreaking to see the families of people hospitalized
upstairs at Herrick Hospital struggling with the revolving
door hospitalizations and downhill course of bright,
talented loved ones. I found it helpful to see that my
perceptions of the situation were for the most part valid,
but quite depressing overall.
They also have meetings/speakers which address various
aspects of dealing with this illness. Useful, including
the consumers' comments and observations.
Free, and worth a try.
Anonymous
Contact NAMI in Albany at namieastbay[at]inreach.com for
information about their monthly support group for parents
of teens and young adults with mental illness. Most of the
families who attend these meetings have teens with bipolar
disorder.
Andrea
There are a couple of support groups for parents of bipolar youth. One
is located in Lafayette/Moraga area, and I know another new one was
starting in the Fremont area. If you go on the website of the Child and Adolescent Bipolar
Foundation (Google it, and you'll find it...)...you can get all sorts of helpful information,
including information on local clinicians who
specialize in working with bipolar, and the parent support groups. I believe the one I mentioned
is sponsored by NAMI (National Alliance of the Mentally Ill)
of Contra costa County.
Contacts with the support groups may lead you to a group for teens.
The parents in the groups are very savvy about services available.
Also, there is a wonderful resource, Camp New Hope
(www.campnewhope.net) which is an overnight camp held for a weekend in
June at Camp Arroyo in Livermore for kids with a bipolar
diagnosis...Overseen by the Pediatric Mood Disorder Clinic at Stanford.
Good luck
anonymous
There are at least two parent-only groups you could attend.
In Lafayette, there is a support group solely for parents
of bipolar children (though of course no one is excluded
because of uncertain or varied diagnosis) at the Lafayette
Orinda Presbyterian Church ~Rm.#4~. The group meets the
second Monday of each month 7-9pm. No RSVP is needed to
attend. Visit the group's website at
www.newhopesupportgroup.com. I attend this group and it has
been very helpful.
In Albany, there is a parent support group for parents of
mentally ill children (all diagnoses) that meets monthly at
a church on Marin.(I used to attend this group and it was
very helpful, too--I switched because we moved to Contra
Costa County.)
Both these groups are sponsored by NAMI, the National
Alliance for the Mentally Ill, which has chapters in each
county. The phone book lists two numbers for NAMI in Alameda County:(510) 835-5010 and
(510)653-2162. One of these
numbers is bound to lead you to someone who can tell you
when the parent meeting now occurs. NAMI is a great
resource--a Google search might turn up further help.
I know of no support group for the bpteens themselves
Especially with cutters (my son is one too) it would have to
be professionally-led. The New Hope group has talked about
a sibling group but we thought it should be professionally
led, too and it hasn't gotten off the ground.
If anyone has information about such a group, please post it!
Mom of bipolar teen
Jan 2006
I am close to a bright 19 year old young man who has
recently been dual-diagnosed with the above. He has Kaiser
coverage, was hospitalized for a few days with symptoms of
psychosis, then discharged on three psychotropic
medications for the bipolar diagnosis. He attended an
outpatient group briefly, but felt that the other young
people were much sicker than he (and it sounds like he's
right), and stopped going. He stopped one of the meds
without consulting his psychiatrist, and just changed from
a Solano County Kaiser to Oakland Kaiser. He reports
having finally seen a psychiatrist who (he reports) told
him to ''take [his] meds and [he'll] either relapse or
not''. No referral for any other kind of help. No mention
of the chemical dependence issues.
Meanwhile, I've been reading a very good book for people
with bipolar disorder and their families which emphasizes
structure, support and information of all kinds, as well
as a working relationship with health care providers. I've
given him the book, and he felt encouraged upon reading
around in it, so what felt like a rebuff at Kaiser was
hard for him.
Personally, I feel that the mental health diagnosis has to
be adequately addressed before we have a shot at dealing
with the substance abuse issue. He denies active meth use
at this time, but is smoking pot. And I don't know whether
to believe that he's not using meth.
Does anyone have experience dealing with Kaiser around
these two diagnoses? Must we have a fundraiser to see if
he can get help privately? His parents, while concerned,
have their hands somewhat tied due to Kaiser's
confidentiality rules, and do not have the cash it would
take to get private care. The young man has such a high
anxiety level that he can only work 4 hours per day and
sometimes not even that.
Thanks for any help you'll offer.
Anon.
The combination of bipolar disorder and stimulants is a
ticket to disaster. Even traditional antidepressants, in
the absence of mood-stabilizing drugs, can cause bipolar
disorder to worsen irreversibly.
The key to successful treatment of bipolar disorder is
pharmacologic therapy (drugs). A mood stabilizer such as
Lithium, Depakote (or one of the other anticonvulsants
found to be effective) is vital, and psychotherapy (''talk
therapy'') is generally ineffective (and in many cases
actually harmful) until the patient is controlled medically
with the drugs.
Resistance to the medication regimen is common among
sufferers (because the drugs tend to moderate the ''highs''
of the disorder), and it often takes months before the
proper medication regimen is achieved. Also, patients with
bipolar disorder should be managed by a
psychopharmacologist, a psychiatrist (M. D.) with special
training and experience in the area.
I am involved in several Lists for the ''significant others''
(including parents) of persons with bipolar disorder and
can be e-mailed directly (see address below) for more
information. Also, I would suggest surfing:
www.bpso.org
for additional information and links.
Robert
In response to Anon, and the 16 year old with
methamphetamine issues and bipolar. I work for Kaiser, and
have been in the mental health field for 25 years. It would
be very hard for anyone to give advice on this type of
situation without a LOT more information which of course is
inappropriate in this venue. There are so many issues at
play here. One is the substance abuse issue. Often, a
person can be misdiagnosed in the midst of substance abuse.
The symptoms of bipolar, or depression/anxiety can mimic
the side effects of meth/pot/alcohol. So, I think the
substance abuse issue should be dealt with WHILE dealing
with the possible bipolar. While it is certainly not
impossible, I find it hard to believe that a psychiatrist
would overlook or dismiss the substance abuse issue. And
marijuana is mentioned in your letter as a side issue, but
it is not benign. I suggest that this family meet again
with either the psychiatrist OR another psychiatrist at
Kaiser. I have been there 3 years, but have had Kaiser
coverage for many more and find it a very good health care
service. Going outside of Kaiser is going to be expensive
and you will not find the continuum of care that a place
like Kaiser has to offer. Did the parents meet with the
doctor as well? How much family involvement was advised?
So many unanswered questions for a very tough situation.
Hopefully, this can be worked out through the teen's current
Kaiser coverage. I have a very good friend who works only
with children and adolescents. He charges over 1,000.00 for
the initial work up. Granted, he takes several hours to
days, and gathers much information from all sources, but
it's quite expensive. Child and adolescent psychiatry is a
sub specialty and it's tough to find a really good
psychiatrist with openings....they are in great demand.
Kaiser has many.
Diane
A great person at Kaiser Oakland is Kitsy Schoen. She
coordinates support and educational groups that may relate
to what your friend is going through. Her number is 752-7983.
I wish you the best,
Anon.
My son attended Kaiser's Chemical Dependency Program for
teens, New Bridge's youth outpatient program in Walnut
Creek, had an intake at Thunder Road in Oakland, so I have
some experience with the local options for addicted youth.
He said the same thing as your teen: he didn't want to go,
the others are sicker than him, they have different
problems, etc. He didn't like AA meetings or NA meetings
either. I think the Kaiser psychiatrist may be saying that
mostly, addicted teenagers are hard to treat, the success
rate is low and so unpredictable. Long term residential
programs often work, but who can afford that? Your support,
and your sense to look for treatment for the bipolarity is
important. A nonprofit I now work with, Options Recovery S!
ervices in Berkeley, is a free outpatient substance abuse
center for people 18 and over. Many of the clients are
dually diagnosed (have a diagnosis of addiction combined
with trauma, psychosis, or bipolarity), though you don't
know until someone stops using if there is in fact an
underlying mental illness, because drug use can both cause
the symptoms of it, and certainly masks it. In January they
opened a clinic to provide free therapy by marriage and
family therapists and medication monitoring to help those in
the substance abuse program. The success has been amazing.
Relapse rates have declined, and people who were really
suffering found ways to stop self medicating to try to stop
their mood swings, anxiety, etc. I don't know if he would be
interested in this program (the average age is older than he
is), but if he is, the person to call is Dr. Davida Coady,
who was recognized this year for all she has done for the
city. Tom Gorham ru! ns the clinic, is an expert in dual
diagnosis treatment, and may be able to talk to him. And
you, you can do the footwork, but try to let go of the
outcome. After 4 years of putting me on an emotional roller
coaster, my son moved out of Berkeley at age 17 and finally
took control of his life: is living on his own, finishing
high school, and is doing great. I don't think it was
anything that I did; it was his choice to extricate himself
from the stress of the city and the social scene that kept
him in that spiral of use and abuse. Bless you.
Anon
Bipolar Adults
Aug 2011
Does anyone know of a support group in the East Bay for people
diagnosed as Bipolar (BP II preferably but we're not fussy) and/or
spouses of people so diagnosed? Any leads would be great. Thanks.
UKMomma
You can try this national site - http://www.dbsalliance.org - which
should list local bay area support groups. I would also suggest looking
into a meetup group if there is one on meetup.com - and if there isn't,
you can create one. I am sure there would be others out there with the
same interest and support goal.
Anonee
Nov 2009
My siblings and I have been watching somewhat helplessly for years as the mental
health of one of our relatives gets worse and worse. We all are in some
agreement that it is likely our relative is bipolar, and we just don't know how
to get the person diagnosed and/or treated. The relative, who is middle-aged,
has had mental health issues before, and did well on Prozac decades ago, but
somewhere along the way stopped all medical treatment. Gentle suggestions of
getting therapy (talk or pharmacologic) have gone unheeded. Can anyone offer
advice, anecdotes, or resources so that we can help our relative get help?
help!
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation with your relative. We've had a
similar problem with a relative. At one point we had to have him commited for
observation because things were so severe. It is difficult to help someone
when they don't think they need help. What we ended up doing was to find a
really good private therapist that a therapist friend of mine researched and
recommended. We pay for the sessions and he's going regularly. We got him to
go by asking him to commit to try it three times and if he didn't like it or
think it was helping, then he could stop. That was eight months ago. He's
also on medications that Kaiser supplies via their M.D.s. The combination has
made a world of difference. It is a difficult situation so be gentle with
yourself. Sometimes there is only so much we can do for people. Good luck.
Kathy
You might check out these non-profits for advice and info:
1. www.nami.org - Nat. Alliance on Mental Illness
2. depressive bipolar support alliance or www.dbsa.org
There are active chapters for family/friends all over.
Take Care.
Monica
May 2008
My sister's husband (age 38) has recently been diagnosed with
bipolar disorder. I would like to find out more about it - to
try and understand what he would be experiencing as well as to
reason with some of my family members who think she should
divorce him because of all the hurt that has been caused as a
result. Can anyone recommend a good book for this?
Anon.
Kay Redfield Jamison's Unquiet Mind is a good start.
been there
There are are a couple of good informative websites that would
be a place to start:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/index.shtml
http://www.nmha.org/
Good luck. Coping with bipolar is difficult for all those
involved. It sounds like your brother-in-law must be getting
some treatment (he received a diagnosis from someone), but I
hope your sister is getting some support too. This can put a
real strain on marriages and she will need a place to talk
about her experiences and feelings.
I wish your family the best.
Carrie
Here are a couple of useful resources for you:
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.html
http://www.psycheducation.org/index.html
Obviously, as you recognize, it is your sister's own business
what she does. If he is actively seeking and complying with
treatment, and if she loves him, and if she is a compassionate
person, why wouldn't she give treatment a chance to see if he can
become his best self again?
Anon
I was an untreated bipolar for 36 years. At my best, I was a near
genius, especially in the art world. At my worst, I left a trail
of chaos behind me wherever I went. When I was just 18, I was
admitted to a psychiatric facility and identified as a
manic-depressive, the old term for BP. I left after several
months declaring to my fellow patients that, ''the difference
between me and you is that you don't like being crazy, and I
do.''. A bipolar often loves his/her condition. It is only after a
lifetime of the shattering ups and downs, the alcohol and drug
abuse, that I realized I needed help. It is very common for BP
sufferers to seek help in their late thirties and up. All is not
lost! Bipolar is eminently treatable. After receiving mood
stabilizing medications, my life was almost instantly changed. My
disturbingly mercurial nature was tamed and I was finally able to
start repairing my life. A pill was not the sole answer however,I
have to work with a psychiatrist on a monthly basis to monitor my
condition and visit a therapist weekly who has helped me undo the
ingrained patterns that I developed over a lifetime of craziness.
Recovering from the effects of my condition require daily work
and attention. The result? I have friends for the first time in
twenty years. I went to college for the first time and have a
nearly 4.0 grade average (I had never received an A in my life
before). I can stay employed for more than a few months for the
first time in my life. I can be a caring and loving husband now.
In short, I can do things I never thought possible with my life
and I can dream of better things. I only regret that I could have
accepted my condition sooner and sought treatment. Who knows what
might have been? Don't give up on loved ones with BP and don't be
dismayed when they refuse treatment at first.
A really good book that has helped me immensely is ''The Bipolar
Advantage'' by Tom Wooton, who is himself, bipolar. His website is
http://www.bipolaradvantage.com/ and he also conducts great
seminars.
I am in a similar situation. These books were recommended by
my mother's psychopharmacologist; The Bipolar Disorder Survival
Guide by David Miklowitz, Why Am I Still Depressed by Jim
Phelps and Bipolar Disorder, a guide for patients and families
(Mondimore). Despite the cheesy title, the doctor recommended
the first one most highly and I am finding it helpful.
hope this helps
Oct 2007
I have a problem that is probably too complex for this forum,
but it's worth a shot. My sister is diagnosed with bi-polar
disorder. Despite this lifelong affliction, she has managed to
become a successful professional and functioned exceptionally
well in society until about a year ago. Around this time (I
think) she starting seeing a new psychiatrist. Soon after she
was put on medical leave from her job and has undergone
evaulations from the office psychiatrist there saying she was
not ready to come back to work. This has left her finances in
chaos, as you can imagine.
After her husband moved out and her house was foreclosed, she
moved in with her psychiatrist! They are now a couple. We have
never met him but find it highly unethical, especially since
she seems no better psychologically. There seems no end to the
downward spiral and we are not sure what to do. She can be very
hostile when confronted with anything and only wants to hear
praise and support, but my patience has really run out. I can't
help but think this psychiatrist has something to do with this
dramatic downturn. I actually hope this, because then there's a
chance that she can become the charming responsible person she
once was.
Any advice or similar experiences would be appreciated.
anon
I'm sure you will get a lot of responses to this. This is not
only unethical it is completely illegal. This person should be
reported to the licensing board immediately. His license will be
revoked for this, and should be. I'm not sure of the exact place
you should call, but hopefully someone else will post here with
that information. For your sisters sake and for the sake of the
other people this person is treating, he MUST be reported.
Anon
NOT OK! This is unethical at the least, and, if the psychiatrist
began the romantic relationship while your sister was his
patient, it is also illegal. I would recommend that you report
him to the medical board. You can also inform your sister that
his behavior is illegal, though it might not help. Unfortunately
for you in this situation, your sister is a grown adult, able to
consent on her own. She may continue the relationship even if
the psychiatrist loses his license to practice. You might want
to try to gently encourage her to find a new psychiatrist for her
medication management, and to express your concern for her given
what you know of the legal/ethical issues and her downturn.
She is going to need to get out of this relationship on her own,
and will need your support if and when she does that. As a
therapist, I am so horrified when I hear of these situations. It
is a total abuse of power on the psychiatrist's part, and so
damaging to the patient. I'm so sorry for you and your sister.
concerned therapist
I am a psychologist and according to our ethical principles, a
therapist should never date a patient. There is some
flexibility (although still very frowned upon) that after two
years post-treatment termination, a therapist can have a
personal relationship with a former client. I am not certain
but would be very shocked if the American Psychiatric
Association had different ethics. All said, you should report
the psychiatrist to his state licensing board. He will be
reprimanded and could lose his license if found to be guilty of
this type of egregious malpractice. Good luck!
Therapist for Ethical Practice
You will be swamped with responses, likely from many others like myself in the
mental health field.
''Highly unethical'' is right. You have not met him but I hope you know his name, at
least. Go to the California Medical Board, www.medbd.ca.gov - click on ''consumer
info'' and ''complaint info'' for guidance on how to file a complaint about him for
investigation. You can download the consumer complaint form, and there is a
section where you can check ''sexual misconduct''. Do this for your sister's sake and
for the sake of other patients he might have (in past or future) treated similarly.
This appears to be grounds for removal of his professional license.
Good luck.
Kate
Hi there- Although I do not really know fully how to respond
to your posting, from what I understand, this guy is indeed
unethical, to say the least. My recommendation would be to
check w/the American Psychiatric Assoc. and the Board of
Behavioral Science Examiners (the ones who license him) about
what to do. I have been a social worker for 10+ yrs and there
are very strict codes of ethics which those of us in the
counseling fields must abide by in order to get licensed and
sleeping with ones clients are at the top of the ''no, no''
list. Dealing with family members who are mentally ill can be
very frustrating and exhausting and you also may want to check
with the Nat'l Alliance for the Mentally Ill regarding family
support groups. Good Luck, Anon
anon
Your sister is very lucky to have such a caring and supportive
relative in her life. It sounds like the psychiatrist is
violating his professional code of conduct. Having a dual
relationship is very harmful and confusing to patients. An
ethical and solid clinician would hold this as the foundation
for the treatment. I am more familiar with the legal/ethical
codes for my own profession (MFT), but I believe similar rules
apply for psychiatrists.
Therapy NEVER involves sex and it is damaging to enter into a
romantic relationship with a current or newly terminated client
(under 2 years). Period. This rule is very clear for MFT's. This
is a very well known code for therapists in other fields.
If she is a current patient or newly terminated one, his conduct
should be reported immediately to his professional board. IMHO,
a therapist should NEVER enter into a romantic relationship EVER
with a former client. It is only a recipe for disaster for the
client.
Amy
I am a Marriage Family Therapist and in my profession it is
highly unethical to begin a romantic relationship with a
patient. In fact it is suggested that the therapist/client
relationship be ended at least two years before a personal
relationship can begin. I would recommend you report
this ''psychiatrist'' to the American Medical Association. He is
acting very unprofessionally and is harming his patient in ways
you may not even suspect. You can report w/o telling your
sister, that's up to you, but I would report no matter what.
Good luck-she's lucky to have a sister who cares so much...
A Marriage Family Therapist
I bet you're going to get a hurricane of advice/input about this
one. Here's mine: It IS unethical and unprofessional for a
psychiatrist to become involved with a patient in any personal
way, even on a friend-only basis. This kind of infraction really
takes the cake. It is possible, even, that if the AMA/APA got
ahold of this information, that this psych. could lose his
license. It is also against the law for a physician to prescribe
medications to his/her family. Whether or not your sister falls
into the ''family'' category, I don't know, but I would check if
this guy is prescribing to your sister and report it if he is,
because your sister's physical andmental health is at stake,
this ''professional'' is taking advantage of her, knowing her
diagnoses, and this kind of relationship is potentially harmful
to your sister in all kinds of ways. Of course the consequences
could include your sister finding out and thus your relationship
w/ her being seriously jeopardized.
Anon
My heart goes out to you as you suffer the loss of the dear, sweet sister you knew,
and watch helplessly while she descends into the chaos caused by her condition. I
hope that she will get the right kind of help. A serious Bipolar Disorder is awful for
the patients and for their families. Of course what the psychiatrist has done is
considered unethical in every state. If reported to the appropriate authorities, it will
have severe consequences for him. As to whether or not working with him caused
your sister's problems, it is impossible to say. Losses can trigger depression. Fear or
anxiety almost always aggravates an underlying bipolar manic condition. Other
factors are said to be important in manic states as well, including medical
conditions and the use of certain medications, as well as ''uppers''. Impulsivity is
commonly seen in manic states. As to her marriage, it may have been falling apart
already, or being ''crazy in love'' with the psychiatrist may have wrecked it. He may
be unethical but desperate to help her and have terrible judgement in these matters,
or he may be just plain wreckless. In any case, he's not helping, but who will take
her in when he's out of the picture? I suggest you talk with a good psychiatrist who
is an expert in bipolar disorders and who can help you know what could help your
sister. Such a person can also help you to decide how to contact the appropriate
authorities, if you wish. I don't have enough information about your sister or the
expertise to help, but if you want to contact me offline, I'll try to help you find a
good local person to help you. First you might want to Google the local or national
headquarters of the Depression/Manic Depression association. It is, or at least was,
made up of those living with the condition who are helpful and know good sources
of information. And Stanford has a good program. Kay Jamison may still be there. In
the rural Sacramento/ Northern CA area, there is a man, John Preston, Psy. D., who
gives talks and courses various places on the topic for professionals. He sometimes
admits family members of those who are bipolar. If you want some insight into what
your sister is going through, read the two books by Kay Jamison, M.D., (see Amazon
under books for descriptions). One an old but professional description and the other
a gripping personal narrative of her own bipolar condition, which she and a network
of friends and professional work to keep under control. Hope you find help and
support. It is excruciating to be the family member of someone who is bipolar and
cannot control it. But the right kind of help can be very beneficial.
Judith
He should be reported to the AMA (American Medical
Association). He could/should lose his license over this.
The most you can do for your sister, otherwise, is show your
concern for her, and your perspective on the sitution, and hope
she makes healthier choices for herself.
anon
June 2007
I am not sure if I am suffering from depression or if I am bipolar. I would like an
accurate diagnosis so that I can start an appropriate therapy. Does anyone know of a
psychiatrist who specializes in this area?
Thanks!
Anxious
I recommend that you contact the Mood Disorders Clinic at Langley-Porter
Institute at UCSF. They offer diagnostic evaluations that are much more
thorough than most private psychiatrists can offer. I went there years ago
and finally got an accurate diagnosis (which in my case was Bi-Polar II) for
a complicated depressive cycling that had gone on for years.
I don't know if it's structured exactly the same way now, but I met four
times with a last year psychiatric resident who was overseen by a team of the
best teaching psychiatrists in the country. As it happened, I didn't like the
first resident I met with, and after the first session requested an
appointment with someone different. The second resident, who I then had a
full four sessions with, was exceptional, and I followed him into private
practice for treatment after he was done with his residency.
I've heard that Stanford also has an excellent mood disorders clinic.
Anon
I highly recommend Dr. Shane McKay at Berkeley Therapy Institute, 841-8484.
He's an expert on bipolar disorder.
Good luck -
I highly recommend Dr. Shane MacKay of the Berkeley Therapy Institute for
this problem -- he specializes in bipolar spectrum disorders. I had on and
off, but fairly serious, problems with depression since high school that
medication never really took care of. He rediagnosed me as bipolar 2 (small
highs, big lows) and prescribed Wellbutrin rather than an SSRI. (I had tried
four or five of the usual suspects.) It has been working for me for 4+ years
after more than a decade of struggle. He is very up to date on the latest
research and let me tell you, I am a different person today. Good luck in
finding a solution that works for you.
Been there
Sept 2005
I was diagnosed with having Bipolar II a few months ago. Since
then I've been on Depakote ER and Celexa. I have had it with
the side effects that these meds are causing! I've also tried
Wellbutrin and Topamax both of which I was allergic too! I
talked to my Nurse at Kaiser and told her I've had enough and
want to get off them and try a natural approach, of course she
was skeptical about the idea. I have gained 21 pounds in 2
months I'm dizzy all the time and my mind just doesn't work
like it used to I have no energy for anything, it's all I can
do to just get up in the morning. I wasn't like that before!
Frankly I feel worse now then I did before I started taking
these darn drugs! I was wondering if anyone knows of a good
Holistic Practioner that can help me figure out what do
naturaly and safely. I've never sought out one and I don't know
what to look for. Also if anyone has Bipolar and are being
treated the natural way I'd love hear know what you are taking
and how it's working for you.
Thanks, Anonymous
Try looking at the icarus project site http://theicarusproject.net/
There should be alot of info as well as personal stories there
that could be helpful.
I don't know about natural methods but if you can afford it, I
would go to a psychiatrist outside of Kaiser to get your meds
right. Sometimes the difference between feeling awful and
feeling great is a half a milligram or a cocktail of drugs. In
my experience, Kaiser is just not the place to make the slight
adjustments that can make the difference. They have an all or
nothing approach and just put you on and pull you off drugs
abruptly and without making subtle adjustments. I have had this
experience personally as well as seen how they medicate my dad
and other friends. Your frustration with drugs may simply be
because they are being administered poorly. Good luck to you!
5 milligrams difference between zombie and happy
Hi. I do not have an answer, but I share your experiences and
would love to find a way to help myself. I am currently off
medication and now, I can get out of bed in the morning, and I
can enjoy myself and not just be in a funk, but the bads come
more often and are much more severe! My mother has seen them at
various times for various reasons and what I noticed, was that in
addition to over $100 a visit (at least once a week) she was
spending $100s of on bottles and bottles of suppliments and
treatments - even $2 a liter for a more pure water. She has
usually been happy with her experiences, and when she is not, I
guess what she has invested is not a loss for her because she
just moves on to the next person. That said, I do believe there
is help out there, I just don't think I can afford it.
Affordable things I have tried, include adding omega 3 to my
diet, adding magnizium to my diet, meditating, group therapy
(kaiser - Cognative Behavioral Group Therepy, this was a valuable
group, but somehow not something I am willing to continue because
I have been given the tools, now it is up to me to impliment them
which can be very difficult when on a down cycle. In general, I
have been pretty disappointed with my doctors at Kaiser, they
seem to have little/no concern for my mental well being and for
helping me find answers)....however, with all of the things I
have tried, I have yet to find one that I felt was doing enough
to continue. I am currently researaching cortisol (a chimical
our brain produces) and how to manage it. Please feel free to
contact me if you wish.
Briefly (feel free to e-mail me directly for more). A good over-
view book for natural treatment for bi-polar (I also am
diagnosed with bi-polar 11) is ''The Natural Medicine Guide to
Bipolar Disorder'' by Stephanie Marohon........I have experience
with different practictioners and methods. I'm most impressed
with homeopathy which I am working with now. Barbara Osawa is
very experienced and my friend who had really BIG bi-polar 1 has
had such a life turn around with her.........Barbara Osawa 707-
257-6752...homeopathy is the most wholistic ''way'' I''ve come to.
Treating the whole specific person, not a ''label'' that could
cover everyone. The ''title'' bi-polar too big an umbrella for
that.......Also website with a pretty wide range is
www.theicarusproject.net ...... I won't go on.....good
luck......Diana
Just a brief thought -- before you reject conventional medical treatment
for Bipolar II, you might want to invest in a really good doctor who can
tune your meds appropriately, even if that Dr. is not on your medical
plan. You will find that it makes a huge difference.
My husband was diagnosed by Shane McKay, and pays out of pocket to
see him. Given that proper treatment may save my husband's life, and
improve quality of life for our whole family.... the expense of seeing the
right specialist is comparatively minor.
Type II Wife
It would be akin to medical malpractice for a doc or nurse
practicioner not to strongly recommend meds for you. The problem
is that bipolar is a cyclical illness and sometimes when it comes
back it can lead to serious life problems ( dropping out of
school, relationship problems, incapacitating depression, loosing
jobs, suicidal thoughts or attempts) These problems can lead to
BIG TIME redirections in your life that you might not want, so it
would be best to continue to work with your nurse practitioner to
find something that works but isn't intolerable to you. Maybe ask
for a second opinion or a review of your case by a psychiatrist.
Bipolar disorder is a serious illness. Consider it like diabetes-
it can kill you.
By the way, even with the best of treatment some folks have
recurrences of the depression but these are fewer and milder than
they would be if you went untreated ( or used only alternative
treatments).
Just my 10 cents and, yup, I'm a psychiatrist.
Good luck,
JM
I was also diagnosed with bipolar II eight months ago. I am very
empathetic for what you're feeling. I really wanted to get off
the side effect roller coaster, too. There are some things you
can do, like taking supplements and omega-3, which I think will
help, but I'd still suggest you stick with a medical approach to
this for awhile. Bipolar isn't something you can work through
with vitamins and therapy.
I'm not that familiar with Kaiser, but what concerned me is that
you're talking with a *nurse* about your situation. Why are you
not talking with a psychiatrist? I've been given a very different
group of drugs from what you've listed and I can't help but
wonder if you're working with someone who doesn't have sufficient
knowledge of a very complex area of medicine. I think my
psychiatrist saved my life, my therapist dragged alot of money
out of me, my regular doctor is helpful but would have referred
me to a psychiatrist, and no nurse I've ever had would have had a
clue. I'd really push to talk to a doctor who specializes in
psychopharmocology.
I've been on Risperdal, Geodon, Zoloft and Lamictal. It took me
six months to go through all that, and there were some pretty
awful side effects, but Lamictal has been amazing. There are so
many drugs that are considered effective that you haven't tried.
Some of the side effects I had a few months ago were worse than
the disease. I've gotten to the point now that I can hardly
remember what it was like being bipolar I feel so good.
Check out www.crazymeds.org (some course language, but good
information) and www.remedyfind.com. These are both good
resources you can use when talking with doctors.
All the best to you.
anon
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