Divorce & Custody with Non-US Spouse
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Divorce & Custody with Non-US Spouse
March 2008
I am looking for a divorce lawyer to help a friend who is a
SAHM with no income.
Some quick facts:
- Her husband left her while she was pregnant and went to work
in China for an American company(even though there are many
jobs here he could have taken he claims he couldn't find a
job)
- He has always been verbally and mentally abusive to my friend
and talks down about her to me (I IM with him on a regular
basis but he doesn't know I know what's going on)
- Their son who is now a year old was born full term but had a
long NICU stay and continues to have many issues.
- When he comes to visit he gets upset that the baby cries b/c
he is constipated or sick and hits him and tells him to shut
up
- Since moving to China he has not sent her a penny and has all
his money in a bank in China
- She is living off her savings and some money her mother has
given her
- He has access to her accounts and questions anything she buys
or why money has been taken out
- He is threatening to take the baby away from her and take him
to China and hire 2 full time nannies who he says will do a
better job taking care of him than she does
- Her English is shaky and she is shy and he is taking
advantage of this-trying to keep her down and keeping her in a
constant state of being scared that he will take her son
Can any help me find someone who is low/no cost (or will
accept payment after she gets money from her husband) that
might be able to help her?
Appreciate any help
You can tell her to call the SF Bar Associations VLSP
(http://www.sfbar.org/volunteer/index.aspx) to see if she
qualifies for free legal services. Also they run a lawyer
referral service if she can afford to pay some fees.
anon
Tell your friend to contact Asian Pacific Islander Legal
Outreach. APILO is a public interest, non-profit law firm
that has lawyers that will work with your friend on a
sliding scale basis. They have offices in Oakland
(510/251-2846) and San Francisco (415/567-6255) or email
info[at]apilegaloutreach.org
cme
If your friend's husband is hitting their one year old
child, I would highly recommend she obtain a restraining
order against him. If she qualifies, she could also obtain
temporary custody, child support and spousal support. I
recommend contacting Family Violence Law Center at
510-208-0255. I also recommend attorney Margaret Gannon who
handles a lot of domestic violence/international custody
cases. Her number is (510) 452-1700, but I have no idea if
she could take a no/low fee case.
anon
Sept 2007
My husband is American and I'm Greek. We're talking about divorce. One of our child was
born in Greece, the other here in Berkeley. I don't know what are my rights in case we
decide to live in different countries, what court prevails, what about custody and
alimony, etc... Could you recommend a good lawyer that might have expertise in such
cases? I desperately need legal advice. Thank you very much
anon
hi,
i have enjoyed my affiliation w/ laura basaloco-lapo, who is helping me tie
up the last legal ends of my divorce. i was recommended to her by my dentist, who
was recommended to me here on bpn. i believe she is brazilian and she writes me
that she is about to receive ''letters rogatory'' whatever that is, from brazil so
as to be able to serve papers on an american living in san francisco.
her contact info is: phones: 415:392-2018; direct line: 415:433-6727; email:
lapo2000[at]aol.com.
best of luck.
doug
Sept 2005
Hi, I am going through a divorce, that is quite difficult.
Ihave a 4 year old son and am mostly concerned about him.
We went to mediation and my husband who is very bossy
controlling and manipulative, got his way on everything.
I am a foreigner, so this whole situation feels very
overwhelming, and I got easily intimidated.
Now I decided to get a lawyer, because our son had to witness
animosities anyway and I need to protect myself.
My husband brings him back without shoes and tells my son that I
would throw away the shoes that he bought new.Just one example.
How can I protect my child ?I already suggested to go to
counceling for our childs sake and he declined.Everything I
would say would not be heard.When he finds out I have a lawyer
he will become even angrier.Has somebody been in a similar
situation ?
Are there support groups, maybe among women from other countries
who are stuck here now too ?
worried mom
Try International Institute of the East Bay.
www.iieb.org
They have the Violence Against Women Program. I don't know if it's your
case, but perhaps they can help.
Anon
Being a foreign person myself I totally empathize. I cannot offer any
legal advice, unfortunatly. Your decision to talk to a lawyer is the
right one. If I were in your shoes I wuld contact local associations of
people coming from the same country as you.
I'm sure there are some in the Bay area, probably even a lawyer from
your country and other people who went through the same problem. If
you're thinking about a divorce, it would be a good idea to compare laws
between the 2 countries and bare in mind that the settlement here will
probably force you to leave in California if you want any part in the
custody of your child.
foreign wife
I'm a foreign national male whom has just completed an insane
dissolution involving 2 daughters which took 4.5 yrs. You have
the same rights to your son irregardless of nationality.
Getting a lawyer involved to protect and get back some of your rights
and time with your son is a good start. Everyone goes through a period
of ''temporary insanity'' during the early stages so take it as that.
Keep in mind that the court and family court services (mandatory
custodial mediation) will always try to accommodate the needs for the
child to be involved with both parents depending on how the
issues/challenges are framed.
As far as a support group for foreign nationals going through divorce,
Im not aware of one at his time.
DJ
May 2006
My husband and I are in the process of separating and will be
seeking a divorce. I am American. He is European. We have one
daughter, who is 3-years-old. My husband wants to return to
Europe ASAP and wants 50% custody. I would like my daugher to
remain in this country except for 2-3 months in the summer when I
would accompany her to Europe (staying at some distance so that
my husband can have maxiumum time with her alone). What's best
for our daughter? We can't afford lawyers; I've just purchased
all the NOLO Press books on this subject and will consult them.
Any advice or experience from BPW members would be appreciated.
Needing advice
Though a court would probably grant primary custody to you, it makes me
feel very happy that you seem to comprehend that your child should have
a father in her life.
For now, I'm sorry but I don't have a lot of advice. However, once it's
time for school, I think you will have to decide where she attends
school, and where she spends all of her holidays/summers.
Anonymous
Right now your daughter isn't going to school so it's theoretically
possible to have 50/50 custody with that distance (though I don't think
it would work well). Once in school, there's no way 50/50 is in the best
interest of your child. I split with my ex when my child was 5. Though
we have both had times when we would have liked to move, we are
committed to staying in the Bay Area until our child is in college so
that we can maintain our 50/50 custody arrangement. If your ex insists
upon going to Europe, I think he needs to be more realistic about how
much custody he can really have.
Anon
please please please get a lawyer. There should be low cost options and
I am hoping that someone else will post some of these. It is already
difficult enough for children to go through a divorce, but if you throw
distance into the mix you will set yourself up for a disaster and long
life difficulties. 50% custody when both parents are near each other
comes with its difficulties but it can work for many parents. Not sure
how you would see this work when one parent is in Europe. My sons father
lives 200 miles away and I have sole physical custody. My son spends
every other weekend away and most vacations, and half of the summer
vacation. That is as much as I was willing to let my
son go away without completely disrupting his life. If you are
not able to figure things out on your own, and I would absolutely
predict it won't coming from two different cultures, things could get
very nasty. I am European and my son's father is American. I ended up
having to sign in the custody agreement that I would never take my son
to live in Europe, so ultimately if I want to stay with my son, I cannot
leave either but that is a small price to pay. You need someone who can
help you figure out what is best for you and your child. I had no money
but had to put all my lawyers fees on my credit card. It took me many
years to pay it off but in the end it was worth it. This is too big to
handle on your own with ''do it yourself book'' you need to protect your
daughter and yourself.
have been there
I can't comment on your soon-to-be-ex husband going to live in Europe,
but I can say that your daughter at some point will have to go to school
and she can't do half a year here and half a year there, it isn't
practical. I think your solution is good:
summers with him in Europe, the rest of the time with you here (also
other holiday times that either he or you can get to the other
continent). Going such a long time without seeing her dad might be hard
on a little girl. Another thought would be if he waited to go to Europe
full-time until she started school, that way she could get used to the
idea of you guys not being together, and see what it's like going back
and forth from one house to another. I separated from my ex when my
daughter was almost 5. She went back and forth for a while, until we
worked out a different solution. We were only across town from
eachother. You don't say if he is willing to do your plan or not. If he
is, then I suggest going to a mediator to hammer out a plan in detail.
This can be what you use for your divorce. That's what I did. The lawyer
that my ex hired to draw up the papers wanted to change it, but we
insisted that this was what we wanted-unchanged. If he is not willing to
go with your plan, you still might go to mediation to work out a
compromise. It will work out better in the long run than going to
lawyers who can be so aggressive (and expensive). If the woman we went
to is still around you could give her a try, Nancy Foster. She was in
Corte Madera 10 years ago. Good Luck. And get those frequent flyer miles
going!
anon
Although I have no similar experience to draw from, my gut tells me that
shuttling a 3 year old back and forth across continents would be
extremely stressful -- esp. for her, but also for you.
Your plan of 2 - 3 months in the summer sounds much more feasible and
would be, in my opinion, much easier for your child. That your child's
dad would want to flee to Europe as soon as possible
-- away from his child -- is, in my estimation, a poor showing of his
devotion to his daughter (I grant you that I am being highly judgmental
here, since I don't know the specifics of your/his situation). Although
it is understandable that he would want to go ''home'', I just don't get
his wanting 50% custody at the cost of his child being bounced around
the globe like a ping-pong ball. Maybe he is a great dad, but the
situation, as he appears to want it to pan out seems to take little
consideration into how the poor child is going to feel about all of
this. Throw the stress of international travel in the mix, and boy, does
that sound unfair! So my advice is to stick to the 2 - 3 months in the
summer idea, so your child won't get quite so rattled and bewildered by
such enormous change in her life.
Anon
You really need to get a lawyer, especially if this is a case where your
husband is a German national.
--make it legal
I received some great advise/words of caution in this column
about going to Europe with my child for the purpose of visiting
her relatives there (I'm American, the father is European, we are
divorcing and our child is 3-years-old). Many of you warned that
I should have a custody agreement in place before doing so. I
spoke with a divorce attorney about this and was told that - in
the end - Calfornia custody agreements are not respected by
European courts; the attorney said that even with one, I would
basically have to trust the good intentions of my husband. Does
this agree with what others have been told?
Grateful again to BPW
I think the main thing to keep in mind is that if your child is away for
your for a longer period of time, your spouse is creating a new center
of living for the child. So, no, a Californian custody agreement might
not work in Europe, because the argument is that your child now lives in
Europe. What is more important is that you are there, too, and that you
have a written agreement from your spouse that he is on VACATION and
plans to RETURN at a SPECIFIED date. This is what I have been told. I am
not a lawyer, and I suggest you clarify this with one prior to any
actual traveling Good luck
Although I am not familiar with international custody law, I do know
that there are US laws that would consider it kidnapping if your husband
does not have authority to keep your daughter (either with a court order
or your agreement), and I do not believe you received accurate advice.
I suggest you contact a few other attorneys to get more information. I
would suggest Margret Gannon, Cynthia Podren, and Dennis Rothaarr. I
would imagine it is hard to prosecute him if he is out of the country,
so it may be true that the other country won't try too hard to return
your child. However, I absolutely believe you will have more protection
with a court order specifying the custody and visitation so that it is
clear if and when he is in violation of that order.
Better safe than sorry.
Hi. I am going through something very similar: I moved here from
Scandinavia with my daughter (who is now three) and must bring her to
Europe this summer. But am worried about legal ramifications if I do
(the father could file papers to keep
her) and if I don't (the father could contest custody due to ''broken
visitation agreement''). Would be great to have somebody who is
experiencing the same thing to connect with.
It has been expensive (lawyers on both continents), stressful,
disillusioning (with respect to international law- lies, mistakes, bad
judges in Alameda county...). Feel free to contact me if you like- to
commiserate, laugh, yell, and just have somebody who understands the
incredible frustration of dealing with international family law
firsthand. I do not know fully what your situation is, but even though
I know I am so lucky to have had the choice to move back to the States
with my small daughter (who was one and a half then), it has not been
an easy adjustment.
tamar
Dec 2001
Has anyone recently dealt with a divorce where the divorce was also
recognized in another country and where there are custody issues? I am
looking mainly for advice right now. My husband is very unhappy and has
been threatening to take off to Europe with our two young children. I
want to know my rights in two situations: 1/ as a parent, if he decides
against my wishes to take the children to Europe temporarily; and, 2/ what
would happen if we were to seek divorce and he wanted to move back to
Europe (he is Spanish, I am American). I was just reviewing the
recommendations for family lawyers and divorce attorneys and didn't see
anything that suggested any of these folks have experience dealing with a
marriage that is recognized in another country.
It doesn't matter what other countries the marriage is recognized in (it
should be recognized everywhere!) -- what matters is that it is recognized
here, and you and your family have established residences here.
That makes it irresponsible and illegal for your husband to return to Europe
with the children unless the terms of the divorce allow for that (this is
why they now have legislation requiring both parents to sign to acquire a
passport for their child). Otherwise you have a right to demand that the
children remain in the country -- and even in the state. This should all be
a part of your divorce arrangements.
That being said, my view is that in setting the legal divorce terms you need
to protect "your interests" (the children being able to be with their mom)
but also be fair to the needs of your husband. If he will have visa issues
and difficulty maintaining work here (or will simply be unhappy here), then
perhaps you should consider an arrangement whereby the kids get to spend
Summers in Spain with their father (at his expense, perhaps).
If you are fair with him then he is more likely to be reasonable with you.
If you think it is likely that he will agree to all this but then refuse to
return the kids to you after their first Summer visit, I don't know what to
tell you, because that could be a potentially costly and difficult legal
process (and it may take a long time) to get them back. If you are worried
about this I think the best place to start may be with an immigration
attorney (there are many good ones in San Francisco). Get up to speed on
your husband's exact status here and what that would mean to him, and to
your family, in the event of a divorce.
Christopher
Run, don't walk, to see Miriam Steinbok in Oakland. 763-5611. I had a
chance to watch her work in the courtroom during my divorce, (where I acted
as my own attorney) and she clearly knows this issue, and if I understood
the conversation she was having with another family law specialist, she has
been actively in the legislature in seeking clarity on this matter for all
of the state.
Had my divorce been more acrimonious, I would have used her regardless of
the fact I had no such issues; she's that good. Also expensive, but
sometimes the very best is barely good enough.
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