Relocating to a great college town - which one?

Hello all, While we love Berkeley - the amazing history of this town, the intellectual community of UC Berkeley, the used bookstores, Amoeba:), the wonderful restaurants, the progressive politics, Monterey Market and Berkeley Bowl:)...as parents, we are finding that continuing to live here is becoming one compromise after another. We are artsy high school educators without the kind of income to ever be homeowners - at least, homeowners in a neighborhood in which we would like to raise our children.

While we have lived most of our adult lives in or near major metropolitan areas - the Bay Area, Los Angeles, Chicago, NYC, DC - we are finding it more challenging to do so as parents. For various reasons, the local public schools are not such a good fit for our two elementary-age children (no disrespect intended for those whose children are in BUSD schools; they just aren't working for our kids). We can't afford to buy a home in a neighborhood in which we would like to raise our family, nor can we afford expensive private schools.

We should mention that one of us grew up in a typical well-off suburban town with excellent public schools, safe neighborhoods, and... rampant consumerism, conservative politics, next to no diversity, and no intellectual life. No used bookstores, no sense of history as a town, no real downtown, no old, historic homes. Very little was walkable. Even if we could afford to move to a wealthy suburban town for the schools and the safe neighborhood, we don't want that kind of environment, either.

Which brings us to this question - are there any true college towns left in the United States? A college town in which... there was a college, natch, with the kind of intellectual environment that a good college would have (cafes, bookstores, an international and diverse community of faculty, staff, and students). The kind of progressive environment one might expect in a college town. An arts community of some kind either associated with the campus or existing independently (artists, musicians, dancers, theatre groups, as well as art spaces like Zellerbach, the PFA, the Julia Morgan Theatre, the Berkeley Rep, Jazzschool, etc.). A food co-op (maybe not the Bowl, but something along those lines...). A walkable, historic downtown (not a strip mall...). Older homes (not just tract housing). REALLY good public schools. Safe, tree-lined streets where kids could grow up much like we did, riding their bikes down the street to a friend's house instead of waiting to be brought to a ''playdate.'' A good variety of restaurants (okay, probably not the Cheeseboard or Cha Am, but not just Applebee's, please). A town where someday we could afford a fixer-upper in a decent neighborhood.

Are we dreaming? Davis is one college town that does come to mind, and we are going to revisit Davis soon and consider the possibilities there. But the cost of living in California, and the way things are looking with our current (and future) budget issues, makes the thought of leaving the state look more attractive, especially as the funding of public education in California is looking more and more dismal. Davis is also part of the greater Bay Area, and as such, is not going to be especially affordable, either...

Any suggestions, BPN-ers? Any overlooked college towns of the type described above? We may not be able to move right away, given the economy, but when things look better, we would like to know that there might be a place out there where we would not have to be working so very hard to survive. We love the Bay Area, but we just can't afford it too much longer...and certain compromises we accepted as part of living here in Berkeley just aren't working anymore now that we have children...

Thanks in advance! Looking for the ''perfect'' college town... anonymous...

If you are really looking for a brand new adventure, I highly recommend the University of Alaska in Fairbanks. You can't find a friendlier community then teh Fbx folks. Because the winters are so harsh, and summers so wonderful people really seek each other out and there is always a lot going on. Fairbanks has a musical theater group, opera group, shakespeare group, many many chorus's, instrumental groups (The univ. has a FABULOUS and very active music dept.) Two of the best Thai restaurants I've ever eaten at (and I've eaten at a LOT) are in Fbx. BEST coffee shop ever...Alaska Coffee Roasting Co. where you never know which friend you'll run into. If I were going to leave the Bay Area I'd go to Fairbanks. (My brother lives there, lots of friends adn my alma mater)..I go back every summer for a music festival). I dont' know all teh public schools in Fbx, but I do know Pearl Creek and a few others are excellent schools. West Valley High also is a great school. Hope this helps. Have fun checking out places. June

The neighborhoods surrounding downtown have lots of beautiful, old houses. Some of the neighborhoods have been taken over by students, but I think there's some good family neighborhoods around too. There's been a lot of new development as the population has grown, but that's on the edges of town, so the center of town has a more historic feel to it. The public schools in Iowa are some of the best in the nation, so you'd have no worries there. The cost of living is high for Iowa, but soooooo much cheaper than here.

The one downside is that it's not very diverse. There's some diversity, due to the college, and it's better than when I was a kid, but it's still pretty lily-white. I sense some racial tension there between IC natives and folks who have relocated there from urban areas (mostly Chicago). Politically, it's very liberal; definitely the most liberal city in Iowa by a long shot.

If it's so great, why did I leave? I grew up and went to college there, and needed a change. I like going back to visit, but we find ourselves a little bored when we're there. Like any smaller city, there ARE things to do, but you have to look harder for them than you do in a place like the Bay Area.

A move to a place like IC would be a BIG change from the Bay Area, but maybe that's what you're looking for. Other similar college towns you might consider are Madison, Boulder (not cheap though), Charlottesville, Durham/Chapel Hill, and Asheville. All good places. Good luck! Betsy

We liked Ithaca a lot and considered staying, but my husband's mood was really sensitive to the grey weather (and locals said it was a relatively sunny year!); don't underestimate that. Also, it is a small town (around 30,000) in the middle of nowhere. It's just 4 hours drive to NY, but an hour of that is reaching a freeway. If you visit, don't miss the Cornell Dairy for great ice cream! Check out http://www.downtownithaca.com/ and http://www.visitithaca.com/ R.K.

Or Bloomington, Indiana, if you can handle the near-south and mostly flat landscapes & somewhat less-liberal people. They have a lovely twangy accent there. Property is cheaper - one can get a huge house for the price of a teeny one here. Good luck! Cass Duggan

The schools in the area are fantastic and also liberal. Amherst High has made national news for their theatrical production of Vagina Monologues. And this year there is a cross-dressed Taming of the Shrew. The schools are also very competitive because of University course options, design-your-own courses, and other interactions with the town and gown.

If you haven't grown up with winter, it's an adjustment but loads of fun Think: skiing and sledding. If there's a good overnight snow, schools and colleges are closed and many people slowly migrate to town coffee shops on skis and snowshoes. It's ridiculously quaint at times.

Of course we're a short drive to much more: 2 hrs to Boston, 3 hrs to NYC, 1 hr to the Berkshire Mountains, 2 hrs to Dartmouth, 3 hrs to Cape Cod, 2.5 hrs to Maine.

Drop me a line if you want any specific details. rebecca

Homesick and regretful we left the Bay Area

We moved across the country to pursue a career opportunity for my husband. We wanted to buy a home, which was not an option in Oakland. In retrospect, I had all I ever wanted & needed in life before our move. I miss our rented home, close friends & family, neighbors & the Oakland/ Berkeley area terribly. I miss the cafes, the parks, the liberal culture, the diversity, the weather… Perhaps the emptiness that I feel is spiritual, perhaps it is some sort of post-partum depression (our 2nd was born just before our move)? I acknowledge that I wrapped what I did & where I lived into my identity, & I don’t want to define myself based on what I do or where I live anymore. I am sick of returning to the same subjects over & over… I hate our new home, our mortgage, & our new suburban east coast life. We have not made connections in our neighborhood, where people do not pick up after their dogs, & leave cigarette butts & trash on the ground at the park. Our town is filled with cookie cutter developments, new luxury condos, tall skinny townhomes & Mcmansions. Our town lacks recycle containers & dog parks. I feel alone in using cloth diapers, picking up other people’s trash, creating a balance between home & part-time work, & hating the barriers in our new community created by class, race, & language. WHAT I HATE MOST IS THAT WE CHOSE THIS FOR OURSELVES. I feel that we were materialistic in wanting to own a home so badly, & that we gave up too much for it. In surrounding ourselves with folks who have more, who seem less conscious of their effects on the environment, & less prone to volunteerism I feel that I have less “good” influences, & will slowly fall prey to human tendencies to want more & care less about the consequences. I feel it happening already, & don’t know how to stop it. We came here with a plan to return if we were not happy, but it doesn’t seem as possible in reality as it did in theory. I feel trapped. To ask my husband to leave his dream job would leave him as unhappy as I have been, plus we’d suffer a huge financial set-back. The solution seems to be a change in attitude, but it is easier said than done. Do I need to admit my weaknesses & see a therapist? Are there ways to transform this deep anger, longing & sadness? Lost

If you are definitely stuck in your current house, I'd check out the library and see if they have something like the ''baby bounce'' here, and book groups. You could also look for places where you can do the things you enjoyed here -- i.e. the Y, or a place to take classes.

I moved here from New York and hated it for about a year and a half, but now can't imagine moving city kid

Whenever I make a move, I ask my friends and aquaintences for the numbers of anyone they have ever met who is living in the area to which I am moving. I call them when I arrive. I take them to lunch, or ask their advice on schools, neighborhoods, hair salons, volunteer opportunities, etc. I contact the local affiliate of every group of which I am a member. I go to their meetings. I find someplace to volunteer. I take a class. I join a church. Somewhere along the way, I find someone who I sort of like and I find something that I like to do. The ball gets rolling and before I know it, there I am happy and part of the community.

Give it some time. Don't mourn for the Bay Area so much. Its a great place, but Oakland cannot possibly have as much grass as you are trying to make green. And, it really does have as much dog poop along the street as anywhere -can live anywhere and like it

What turned my perspective and helped me start to breathe again and not live with knots in my stomach was when, after 6 months, I joined a parent support group (''Parents Again'' was the name of the class at a non-profit parent support organization) for parents with a new baby and at least one older child. 2 hours a week of empathy, sharing, structured parent education from the coordinator, and beginning friendships led to one very close and fast friendship for the next 6 months, before we found the financial means and job opportunity to move back to the Bay Area. So... have a old friend or trusted relative visit to help you explore your new community with fresh, positive eyes. Join a parent support group. Join a mom's stroller exercise group or join the Y to get exercise to change your outlook. And make sure the sunshine can get into your house (open blinds, install a skylight, etc.) . New moms need sunshine when cooped up with children who nap many hours. I sure did! Get outside and walk in any woods you can , kick some fall leaves, find out what tourists would love to see in your new hometown. Kids are often free at many museums. Go explore!... with your new friends from the Y or from the parent group! it does get better

Get involved-- or better, be a leader-- and get to work with your local synagogue/church/temple, city recreation department/planning council, schools, etc. and lead by example, teaching one by one, to wake up, smell the coffee, pick up the garbage and raise consciousness about enviromental/class/race issues in your community. WAKE THEM UP, for Pete's sake!

You'll find a way to get the ball of creativity rolling-- hold a Community Clean Up day and get your local county board of Realtors to sponsor it-- it benefits real estate sales to have a clean community. Heck, have local businesses sponsor it. Get groups to go into local schools and churches and remind the kids that they need to ''clean their rooms'' at the end of the day, and remind all those good Christians in America that their god told them to be good stewards of the earth, so let's start now, already! Marin Mover and Shaker

I know a woman in New Mexico who hated the 4wheeling offroaders that tore up the fragile bosque environment. She was very discouraged, but decided to work against it and said she would quit at the first sign of confrontation or anger. Well, almost magically, nothing ever stopped her and she passed a ban on offroading - all by herself!

The point is that we are all doomed if what we love about the Bay stays only in the Bay. It's a big world, and there are a lot of improvements to be made. So maybe it would be easier on you if you looked around at all the things that you hate in your new home and told yourself: ''well, that's another thing we'll have to work on.''

Idealistic, maybe. Difficult, probably. But maybe that's why you're out there! And at least you don't have to worry about money, what with your husband's new salary - we're out here in Berkeley, with a new baby, and short of winning the lottery, can't possibly afford a home in this wonderful area.

Good luck, stay sane, don't give in to the meaningless materialism. I pick up litter in N.Berkeley too!

They marveled at our new environment. They commented on the friendly people, the natural beauty, the charm of our new town. It made us see it in a whole new light. They also told us that if we always had one foot in Connecticut and one foot in California, we would never be happy in either place. To some degree I think we may have romanticized the reality of living in CA. My husband and I talked very candidly when they left about our decision to move here. We decided to take the next 2 years and make the most of this experience. I have joined a Newcomers group and met other transplants. That helped me meet other like minded people. Long term, it is our intent to return to the Bay Area. We realize that there will have to be some sacrifices made by both of us, but feel strongly that that is ultimately where we belong. My advice to you is this: make the most of your experience while it is happening, realize that the Bay Area will always be there for you, and talk to your husband about what you want in the future. If you would like to chat, I would love to commisserate with you! myers

One thing I've noticed about the people that live here is an intense pride in the area, which is good, that translates into an tendancy to look down one everybody else in the country, which is bad. People don't even want to give other areas a chance to be cool. And frankly, people in some parts of the country (i.e. the Northwest) really dislike people from the Bay Area because all they talk about is how much everything sucks compared to what you can get in the Bay Area.

I would suggest taking the time to really explore your new town. If you've already alienated your current neighbors, then start chatting with shopkeepers and waitstaff. Find out what they think is cool. Every city has punk rockers, hippies, a music scene, recent immigrants, and artists. You just have to find them. Go find the cool neighborhoods and when you've found a good one, sell your house and move. Writing off the entire rest of the country, or even the entire East Coast, based on your experience in one suburban area is ridiculous. I lived in North Carolina for a few years and I can assure you that they have a left wing eco-hippie community that would rival that of even Berkeley's. In fact, I found them more interesting because since they were in a red state they had real issues to fight that went well beyond requiring fair-trade coffee in every cafe within city limits. Nomad

Start small so you can feel that sense of accomplishment sooner. Some action-ariented organizations you could try to find chapters for in your local area are the League of Women Voters (lots of great women and a few great men doing good and thoughtful local work - and more), the Audubon Society (lots of folks who love birds a other nature stuff), the Isaac Walton League (sp?) (lots of folks who love taking care of rivers and creeks). Perhaps there is a science teacher or garden teacher at your kids school who would like help with a small school site project? Perhaps there is a local park that you can help ''beautify''. Perhps there is a local public/neighborhood vegetabel patch? Pick something small and have a great time. You can make such a HUGE difference by taking your seeds from the East Bay, and sowing them in your new home. YOU GO!

Get involved, and give thanks for the blessings you have in your life. How fun that your husband was hired for his dream job, you own a home, can play in warm rain with your children, and soon enough skip through autumn leaves! That sounds mighty blissful to me!

I had this issue when I moved to Berkeley years ago. I felt that most people I met, while nice and well-meaning, were just too serious, p.c. and tv-eschewing for me to really connect with. When it became apparent that we were settling here, I made a conscious effort to lose the attitude. When I became more accepting I started making friends with funnier folks with whom I can obsess about Project Runway. I still have moments of sadness when no one besides me gets my husband's jokes at parties, but what are you going to do.

Also, I would just give it time. The two coasts really are so different in vibe--it's totally normal to experience major culture shock before you find your tribe. Best of luck! anon

Where would you live if you couldn't afford the Bay Area?

Like many others (judging from all the ''moving to ... '' posts on the BPN) my husband and I are thinking about whether we should leave the Bay Area. We were both raised here and have lived here most of our lives. But though we love it, we're growing increasingly weary of the astronomical cost of living and the stress that making our ''monthly nut'' puts on our family. We own a modest home that we have a lot of equity in now, and the idea of ''getting out of dodge'' and moving somewhere less expensive has a great deal of appeal. The problem is, we don't know *where* to go. We don't have family anywhere (other than here) that we'd consider living, and don't have the money to travel willy nilly to see what appeals. So I'd love to ask BPN members who've lived and/or visited places they've loved, ''Where would you live if you couldn't be here?'' We're looking for a vibrant small city or cool college town anywhere in the USA or Canada (my husband has dual citizenship, courtesy of his Canadian mother) that: * Is significantly less expensive than the Bay Area * Isn't suburban tract-house hell; a place that has nice in-town neighborhoods filled with vintage (teens, '20s, '30s) homes on tree-lined streets * Has a cultural life -- concerts, readings, community events, writers, artists, weirdos, etc. * Has a decent economy; I freelance from home, but my husband would need to find a job (his background is in retail management) * Has a good public school system (through high school) * Is somewhat politically and socially progressive; we know that the redneck and ''Red State'' factor will be an issue pretty much anywhere we go, but we need to be somewhere we could find a community of like-minded friends * Isn't 100 in the shade or 0 degrees three-quarters of the year Are we dreaming? Some of the places that sound promising, but that we've never actually *been* to include Eureka, CA; Portland, Ashland, or Eugene, OR; Amherst or Northampton, MA; Chapel Hill, SC; and Denver or Boulder, CO. Any other places we should add to the list? Thanks so much for any and all input! Anonymous

Good luck! Trying to stick-it-out in the Bay Area

Plan B for us, if that doesn't work out might be Corvalis, OR. It's a University town with Berkeley ''mentality''. Also not that far from the shore and Portland. Houses there are also cheap and big (decent 2 story for about $300,000 or less. More rain of course but I'm actually tired of the long dry seasons here. I've lived in the Bay Area for 25 years. anon

I lived in Columbus, OH for 8 years, and really liked it. Ohio State is there, and there are a number of close-in communities and suburbs that are progressive. There is a large gay community there, and the University has tons to offer. It is also a huge retail mecca (Les Wexner, who owns The Limited and other stores, is based in Columbus, and lots of retail stores are tested out there).

You get all 4 seasons, some snow, but not enough that you need a snow blower. The worst part is the humidity. If you have lived in the Bay Area your whole life, you REALLY need to test out the humidity factor before moving away from the Western US. Some people actually like it, but most hate it!

And remember, Ohio was almost a Blue State!!

Good luck with your search!
Sitting on Serious Equity Myself!

Trapped in the Bay Area rat race - where to live?

My husband and I are trapped in the Bay Area rat race. He works too many hours at a job he doesn't like just so we can afford a cramped house for us and our two young kids. Before we had kids, we thought it was worth it. We love the Bay Area, but now that we have kids, the compromises that we must make to live here are just too much. And -- frankly -- the traffic and congestion are really getting to us. When we think about what we really want for our family, this isn't it. We have this idea that there is another way to live -- in which the community is family friendly and affordable and welcoming and broad-minded. I'd love to live in a modest and affordable home on a tree-lined street where my children could walk to a neighborhood school that I am proud of. I'd like work and shops to be either a walk or a short drive away. To me, this sounds like a small town or a small city, but I'm at a loss as to where it is. Do any of you have ideas about where to go to afford a good honest life in a place that doesn't break your bank? Homesick