Our Discussions


Killing Defenseless People ... Is It a Parenting Issue?
1 ( a madar)

I forward it to you becaues I think this is very much a parenting issue. Please check out the pictures and judge for yourself. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_952000/952700.stm


2 ( a pedar)

Madar#1 jan:

I saw this on the news yesterday and have not been able to sleep since. I look at the images and I am not sure if it is because we have kids now ourselves or what but I can not imagine this. To me no land or religion is worth this, it makes me mad and very sad. The only difference here is that this has been happening for a long time but all we hear is the numbers and statistics of a child getting killed there but now it is so real. These pictures are horryfying I also have this article which talks about it, it was reported as a crossfire thing as if the palestinians throwing stones and israelies shooting with bullets is considered "crossfire". They did not even respect the ambulance driver. I am so mad and all day thinking about this kid, I can not imagine myself in that situation and thank god we are not.

take care

P.S. It makes a lot of things so meaningless when you see this.


3 ( a madar)

Madar#1 Jan,

This is one of the saddest pictures I have seen. Is there anything we can do to stop violence in that part of the world?


4 ( a madar)

Dear Madar#1,

I know that you felt compelled to send us these pictures. Perhaps you thought it was your responsibility. But I don't think that this is a parenting issue. This is politics at its worst. It is true that politics effects all of us and we all should be aware, but these pictures truely upset me and I feel like I was not given a choice in the matter of seeing them.

I could not tell from your email that there were such graphic pictures. Although the subject line mentioned something, I thought we were dealing with an article and couldn't imagine such heart-wrenching pictures. I for one would be truely grateful if the subject line contained a warning in such a cases.

We are not children and we don't all have the same convictions when it comes to politics or social issues. Since madar-pedar group was meant to deal with parenting issues, we should be careful what we send. I agree that there are times that we should forward other information that might be of use to others, but how about we give others a choice on whether they should see the contents or not?


5 ( a madar)

Madar#4 Jan, thanks for bringing this up.

Dearest Madar#1, it's hard to add to what Madar#4 has already said here but just to reiterate the fact that by having the warning, I for one would not have opened this one!

Without going into details of whether or not this is a parenting issue or not, I simply would appreciate it next time to have the warning and the choice!


6 ( a madar)

It said right in the subject Killing defenseless people and also she mentioned that was pictures. I don't see the big deal about these pictures. They were already all over the papers and TV. Don't you read the paper or watch news on TV.

I personally had no problem with receiving these pictures. And I leave at that because it seems like people don't like to be involved!


7 ( a pedar)

Madar#4 khanom, salam,

I understand that yr visual comfort might have been disturbed by seeing these pictures. But as a photojournalist, I must tell U that taking the pictures of this kind is as dangerous as fighting the soldjers. And if U have never made such pictures, at least help them to go around. In this way U'll help the oppressed people to be heard.

Good luck


8 ( a madar)

Madar#4,

I found myself agreeing with most of things you said except for a few things. No doubt about it that the pictures were heart breaking. I too did not expect to see such thing. I also did not think that it was a parenting issue. However, I had no objection to receiving it. I do not have time (neither the desire) to watch TV (I get my news from the radio and sometimes papers) so it was very shocking to see those pictures not because Madar#1 sent them to us, but because of the clear brutalities that displayed in those pictures. I had to view them 2 or 3 times just come to my senses that this is the reality and these things are really happening. It was also very depressing because it somehow reminded me of the Iran revolution and the war between Iran and Iraq! Some of us lived in the war zone! You are probably right that this is a political issue, but politic is what is ruining the whole world right now and killing innocent people.

Maybe we should have choice as to what we want to view in this site, but then again that won't eliminate the killing and cruelty that goes on on the other side of the world. And, how do you suggest to warn people about what they're going to see or read in the incoming messages? Should we get warning about everything? There are a few things that are not parenting issues and I don't particularly care for and receive a lot of messages about in this site. :)

Have a great one!


9 ( a madar)

Madar#4,

Ofcourse you are free to voice your opinion but I have to say that it is very sad to see people wanting to ignore things that are going on around them thinking the if they ignore them they will go away. Let me tell you something, THEY WILL NOT. This is the reality of life on the other side of the world and not only we need to learn about it, I think as a parent, we are responsible to educate our children about them as well so they don't grow up thinking that if I am well enough why should I care about what is going on anywhere else and how other people's lives are destroyed.

BTW_ Here is the information about a protest that is scheduled for tomorrow in case anyone is interested and can attend:

Friday, October 6th
in front of Israeli consulate
456 Montgomery st. between California street & Sacramento Street.
12-1pm

Thanks,


10 ( a madar)

Dear all,

I agree with most of the comments regarding the sadness & reality of these pictures. I also agree that as parents and human beings we are responsible adults and need to be aware of violence that is going on all over the world. But, to be fair to Madar#4, this is also a political issue and some people on this alias may not like being involved with politics or simply have a different point of view. I think Madar#1 did give enough warning and it was up to us to decide and open the pictures or not. These pictures are all over the news and I am sure we all have seen it in the news. Lets just value each others opinion and don't shower people with labels and being ignorant or what ever you think they are. We are part of this alias, because we are parents and so far, I think Madar#1 has done a great job of keeping the dignity of this site. If we want to have political discussions or announcements, there are other sites we can sign up for and be part of. Let us be the parents and deal with the parenting issues on this site.


11 ( a madar)

I could not open it so i have no idea what you are talking about however I think Madar#4 is right , it is good to give a warning that way everyone has a choice

Once again I have to say that I am grateful to be a part of madar pedar


12 ( madar#1)

I don't think if bringing every good item to madar-pedar is appropriate. I think we should stick to parenting issues and specially related to Iranian and Iranian-American parents. So, I think I should clarify why I considered the images of horror and helplessness of a 12-yr old Palestinian child right next to his parent, the fear of the child and anguish of his parent, and finally the death of the child next to his parent is a parenting issue. Let me talk about just two reasons:

1- I believe that child rearing is not a personal issue of the parents of the child, but it is a social responsibility of all the people to care for the next generation just as they should preserve the nature and reserve natural resources and provide better care and education for the next generation. So, Madar#4 is right in the sense that as a part of the human society I do feel responsible.

The other side of it is that my children are not only affected by how I treat them at home, but also by what they see outside in the society and in the globe. If we close our eyes to such images, they will be repeated and our children will see them or even could be involved in the reality of such happenings. I think it is the responsibility of us, parents, to make the world a better place for our children. Is it politics? yes, and it is more! it involves all of us whether we acknowledge it or not, it is going on. Sadly, another boy, a 13-yr old, was killed yesterday, and it is going on... Whether we want it or not, we are involved specially as American residents who can have a voice. It is up to us to acknowledge our role or ignore it. Silence is not "not getting involved", but is playing a role, a passive role, which ultimately supports and enforces the misery.

2- I also believe that in order to raise our children with a conscience we should share some issues with them. I don't show those images to my children, but in order to pass on something to my children, I need to be exposed to the reality and learn and face it to be able to gradually pass on some values and knowledge to them. Isn't it what we do with respect to human sexuality? we need to face it even though it is hard, but we need to make sure we know before we feel ready for parenting in that aspect. Can we choose not to tell our children anything about social issues and leave it to politicians? Of course we can just as a group of parents left the list when there was a talk about sexuality and preferred not to be exposed to the facts.

It is a choice, but I think life is too precious to be manipulated by politicians and we should start building a world that is run by the majority of people by taking a proactive role and teaching our children to be proactive.

However, I should add that I believe that a human being, emotionally and physically all together, is a system and every system has its own capacity and threshold. So, I understand when you ask for an appropriate warning.


13 ( madar#4)

Wow, such a harsh reactions to a simple request of letting me be the judge of what I do or don't watch or am subjected to.

"They were already all over the papers and TV. Don't you read the paper or watch news on TV."

It turns out that eventhough I do try to keep up with the world news, I have been working long hours and at night help my children with their homework and other duties, so I haven't had the liesure of watching TV. The little time that I did have, I prefered reading a book. Don't be so quick to judge and to insult, dear Madar#6!

"I understand that yr visual comfort might have been disturbed by seeing these pictures."

Pedar#7 Agha, I am not a photojournalist and don't spend my life in war zones trying to make the oppressed be heard. This does not mean that I don't think that those people are not brave or their job is not worthy, but I do believe that my visual comfort, as you put it, is my business. Not all of us have the same convictions or contribute in the same way.

"it seems like people don't like to be involved!"

What do you call being involved? Do you really know me or know what I do or don't do or how involved I am? I bet I do more for my fellow humans that many people and perhaps even you. And these pictures effect us each differently. I happen to be the type of person that will dream about these pictures for days and the images stick with me for a lifetime. I see too much cruelty in this world and if I were to spend that much time and energy over each of them, I would have nothing left for myself, my husband or my children. Call it what you will, not enough heart or too much heart!

"how do you suggest to warn people about what they're going to see or read in the incoming messages? Should we get warning about everything?"

I simply suggest this for the subect line: "WARNING: The contents may be too graphic or too violent!"

"it is very sad to see people wanting to ignore things that are going on around them thinking the if they ignore them they will go away."

It turns out Madar#9 jan that every morning I go to the iwon web site and look specifically for the update on the middle east issue. The issue is not being ignored. I just would rather not be witness to visually seeing a little boy die in his father's arm, eventhough I know that the death toll on this conflict is 68 so far, all but three of the dead were Arabs -- 56 Palestinians and nine Israeli Arabs, as well as an Israeli soldier, a border guard and a Jewish civilian. I also know that the latest cease-fire has not worked and the violence and killing is continuing as we speak. Believe it or not, I don't even have any objection to your letting us know about the protest and I encourage it. Being involved orignoring our role is not the same as seeing every heart wrenching picture there is.

So, dear parents, if this is not a political discussion, I don't know what is. As Madar#10 jan said, let's keep this a parenting site. I can't believe how harshly some of you judge when someone asks to be simply left to their own conscious and judgement. Perhaps, this is another one of the characteristics of discussing politics. Are we going to judge and treat our children this harshly if they don't agree or follow our convictions? Don't make assumptions when you don't know all the facts and please don't try to push your ideas and ideals on others.


14 (a madar)

Salam Madar#12 Jaan,

Beautifully said. I like to thank you and congratulate all of us for creating this opportunity to talk to each other, hear one another and grow together to become a better person.

Thanks again,

Love you all,


15 (a madar)

Dear Madar#13,

For someone who said "Don't be so quick to judge and to insult" you sure did assume that I have nothing better to do than watch TV.

My dear I have a full time job, husband and three kids and an active volunteer in 10 different organizations.

I like to let you know that I did not meant to insult you. But I just want To say that I think Sohiela is being doing a wonderful job.

I think for people who don't want to get all these e-mails about poem about children (refering to To My Child ... ) or subject like this which they think is not a parenting issue maybe the solution is not to be on the mailing list and just go to the web site and pick the area that is the interest to them and they can get involve with the discussion if they choose too.


16 (a pedar)

Hello Soheila! anybody ... please help !!!!

A R E W E S T R E S S E D or what

it must be the end of the month, bills piled up or what ever!!!!

please children... I hear them at home and hear them here too,,

lets put a stop on all of these non-sense attacks on each others characters, mis-judging, pre-judging

lets focus on the issues and not the personal prefrences.

Its beautiful if a madar sends a poem a day all about loving kids (even every minute is not enough). (referring to To My Child ... )

Its OK if a pedar feels this stuff is too much or less. its up to him to read or not read, to join or not join in, I was glad to see that finally more pedars are responding, its all about emotions ... we Pedars are always asked why we dont express ourselves, well here is why. Its just fine for the other madar to post these kind of issues. My son and I were watching news early in the afternoon and my son asks " Dad is that real! are the military guys are really killing those people? what is a WAR?"

I was not sure what to answer back, "Dad aren't the military men and policemen the good guys?" he continued asking. We always tell our kids that policemen and men in uniform are to help you when needed.

Please lets talk about these matters and stay on track.

Regards


17 (a madar)

Please everyone Don't get personal

Smile And Have a good day or night


18 (a madar)

We have to keep in mind that it's hard to transfer the tone of voice and facial expression over the e-mail. Some people manage to do so by the right choice of word and some don't! I think that is one reason that sometimes things get out of hand and we start taking the comments personal, but I don't think this should stop us from making comments or react to each other's comments or poems.

Pedar#16 is right, let's not stop talking about these issues. These are issues worth to discuss. I think Madar#4 did the right thing to bring up what she brought up. She might have not appreciated all of our comments and reactions, but I for one appreciated her and others' input. I think that goes for that madar's poem and that pedar's reaction. (refering to To My Child ... )

Let's all take a deep breathe and start all over!! :)



Please send your replies and/or opinions regarding this subject to madar-pedar@surya.eecs.berkeley.edu.

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