Helping 10-year-old grand-daughter with her father's suicide

My daughter's husband killed himself after years of severe depression. They have 2 kids, 10 and 7. I would like some advice from people who have had experience with this sort of thing. I have so many questions. Should I be concerned with the 10 year old not grieving outwardly and the 7 year old crying all the time? What's too much help for my daughter? How to help her through this horrible period? Their house is getting foreclosed upon (even before this). Should they move NOW or later? Is it healthy to stay in the house or better to move out? I have rescheduled my whole life so I can be available to her + kids 24/7, but I am only on call so far. She honestly has not used me that much. (She has chosen to be closer to her husband's family because she knows I never approved of her husband and the way he treated her and what he put her through, especially the last few years). It's very complicated. Any suggestions/advice etc. would be appreciated. Frankness and bluntness is no problem. I prefer that.

as they get older they will want to know more about their father at different stages as they will be ready to relate to him differently, even though he is no longer there. if you can remember anything about what he said about them, what he wanted for them, etc., write it down now, so you can tell them then. they will probably want memories of him, if they can forgive him. especially, as fathers are often the source of approval, things that he was proud of them for. your memories of him are an incredible treasure for them now. take care. hang in there

second, when people are grieving, many friends make offers of ''call if you need anything''. rarely does the bereaved person call; they don't want to impose or be a burden. they are mired in their grief and don't have the wherewithall to realize they need help, much less ask for it. it's much better to offer some concrete acts of kindness and create space for an opening or opportunity to share. if someone says, ''i'm going to stop by tonight at 5pm with dinner. i can stay if you need to talk, but don't feel pressured.'' or, ''i'm free to come on thursday from 2-4pm to clean your bathroom, do laundry, etc. will that work for you?'' or, ''let me take the kids to a movie on saturday'' then arrange for someone else to be with the person during that time so they're not alone. most people want to be helpful, but just don't know how to go about it. someone who is going through tragedy or even a new mom or a sick friend hates the idea of being a burden. they don't want to make any decisions.

as their house is being foreclosed, she is likely struggling financially which is stressful on top of dealing with her grief and being a parent. if you are not able to help them financially or she is unwilling to accept that help, buy them groceries, that is one practical way to ease her stress. there are no hard & fast should and should nots in the tangled emotional issues surrounding their foreclosure situation. rather than offer advice either way, you could try facilitating her decisionmaking by asking her open-ended questions instead. trust her to make the best decisions for herself and her family.

third, grief has no language & children in particular don’t innately have the tools or means to articulate their own grief. as adults, we need to guide them & give them safe spaces to share their feelings. with their father suffering mental illness you want to give them better tools for emotional health. you don’t mention gender & that can also impact the way children express/repress sadness. girls in particular may emulate their mother. children should be allowed to witness their parent & elders grieving & crying, so that they can feel free and safe to be present in their own emotions & to share their own sorrow as well. for a boy, encourage him to express his emotions & to cry when he feels sad because social pressure on males to repress emotions played a role in their father’s depression. don’t underestimate the value of touch. just being held while you are sad is healing.

you could trying giving the children a cathartic ritual to creatively express their grief. they could write a letter to their father. you could then make a copy of the letter (saving one copy for for them to revisit & reflect on) & give them the choice of how they would like to send it to their loved one; the child chooses the element that speaks to their own spirit—via the ocean, on the tail of a kite, in a small bonfire, left under a rock or in a tree, at the gravesite, or read out loud in a prayer. if the child is not able to articulate their grief, they could also create something by hand with whatever medium feels comfortable. even for an adult, this little ritual helps to give closure to the raw emotions that the healing may begin. know that grief is a profound emotion that cannot be denied, it leaves a palpable mark on one’s souls. they will live with this loss for their whole lifetimes. your daughter & grandchildren will always feel their loss, every day, every moment, at all life’s rites of passage & meaningful events, they will taste the bittersweet, even as they may also partake in life’s joys. tears of joy & tears of sorrow will be one and the same. there is no contradiction in that. patiently listen to their expressions of grief without judgement or hurry, hold the space for them, hold them, offer them the love and security that they may reflect on their sorrow and move forward in their life.

don't let fear stay your hand or bind your tongue. pause, breathe, open your inner eye, listen to your heart (not your ego) & be love. LN

Forsuicidesurvivors.com has a resource and booklist for spouses, parents and children. The Association of Suicidology is national and has groups in North Oakland, Walnut Creek and San Rafael. http://www.suicidology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=60 Karylofpavo@cs.com is an email for parents surviving suicide & has online support groups. After losing my best friend in graduate school, I found the parents surviving suicide support group to be most helpful, as they took me in, were extremely kind, & do a lot in the community to help with response and legislation. It was empowering to look at how to make it easier for other families.

For now, soak in knowledge but know on some level it won't make sense. You may continue to feel helpless, because it brings that out in people. It's a terrible time for her. Be humble and open. Put any judgment or competitive feelings (with the inlaws) aside if they exist. Apologize for the past. Emphasize your love for her and her children. (Btw, the oldest child may be in shock or have complicated grief and may not be able to cry). I wouldn't ask 'what's too much help', because this is one of the worst things a person can go through. But she has to let you in, so get support and advice there on how to approach and hopefully improve your relationship with her. Not knowing details about the house, how much time she has, how recent this is, how close you live to each other, you may need to help line up a place to go and be there during a move to protect her things. I had to move just after the death on my own and was robbed. Just make sure she has a good team around her. I'm very sorry for this loss. Please understand that if this is very recent, things may change as you may all still be in some degree of shock, which can last for months. I'm happy to provide other resources. You can contact the moderator for my email. Finally, don't put your entire life on hold; continue to take care of yourself. anon

How to explain family suicides to children

My husband and I both have a family history of depression and suicide. My older brother (age 19), my husband's mother (age 42), and my grandfather--long before I was born--(50-ish?) all took their own lives. Our daughters, ages 6 and 10, don't know about this yet. They have asked questions from time to time about my brother's death (they have seen his pictures) and my husband's mother (they love his father's current wife, their Grandma). So far, we have only explained that they died from illness, and didn't go any further than that. How and when do we explain suicide to our daughters? I should mention that our daughters are both adopted, so our family's mental illness is not part of their health history. Our 10-year-old daughter in particularly is extremely sensitive, and doesn't like to hear sad and painful stories. But we don't want to keep ''secrets'' (my own family did that when my brother died, telling lies--and asking us to tell lies--about his death to all our close relatives and friends, including many of my siblings who did not find out for years). My grandfather's suicide was always a secret, and would have remained a secret -- until one of my siblings found a death certificate with suspicious language. What do you think -- when is the right time, and how to talk about it? --Still grieving after 35 years

This is fitting for me; hope it helps you: Offering a reason with accompanied solution along with the explantion, thereby leaving hope. For example, ''Your grandpa took his own life, because back then they didn't know that they could ask for help/talk to someone/etc when they were sad'' or ''...because they didn't grow up in a home like ours where feelings are talked about and respected''.... Love, Sister Sue

Tell children about their dad's suicide?

My children's (12 1/2, 16) dad recently committed suicide as a result of bipolar illness (manic-depression.) Do I tell them he committed suicide? Do I tell them how he did it? Right now they just know he died and the medical examiner is determining cause of death. Now they're at greater risk of suicide -- what do I do about that? Thanks for your advice.

My father killed himself when I was 29, 3 years ago. I did the above support group within 3 months of his death. Our group has been meeting once a month on our own now for 3 years and it's become much less informal, but we're a great souce of support for one another. We've seen us all go from being completely heartbroken to putting our lives back together and laughing and smiling.

I also would insist that you (and your children depending on what the above counselors advise) do EMDR therapy asap. This is Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy and it succeeds in taking the charge off of traumatic memories and images such that your life isn't permanently disabled by them. The best such therapist in this area is Harriet Sage, LCSW at 510.527.6100. She's a certified trainer of this method and an excellent therapist. You can also get other referrals to therapists from www.emdr.org and calling the number listed, but Harriet's great and will be able to refer you so call her asap.

Your kids do not have to be at risk for suicide. They will need to understand it and get access to the tools to be sure they can live their lives in a much healthier manner than their father was able to. My mother and 2 of my 3 sisters and I have all done a combination of support group and EMDR therapy and we're all in a much better place now. Our lives are forever changed, but not in a hopeless way. We are all stronger than we've ever been and deeper people than we've ever been.

You will get through this. Surround yourself with the safe resources above as quickly as you can. Be VERY gentle with yourself and your family. And please write back to say how things are going.

My experience with this is having lost a brother to suicide about 11 years ago. He had a daughter who was under a year at the time, and I believe my sister-in-law told her when she was 8 or 9 years old. (Prior to that she simply said that he had died and was vague about specifics.) I plan to do the same with my own children who are still very young. I can't imagine that you can avoid telling your children about this (including the "how", if they ask), given their ages (12 1/2 and 16).

My sympathies to you and your children in this painful time. My niece is doing quite well, by the way -- she has plenty of friends and is doing well in school.

This past summer, my younger son's soccer coach (father of 3 children) committed suicide. A group called PediatriCare provided a (free) grief-counseling group for the boys on the team (many of whom were also classmates); and I understand they also provide other services. The kids who attended the session (it was kids only) felt it was very helpful. Their phone number is (510) 531-7551. The address is 2540 Charleston Street, Oakland, CA 94602.

Ten years ago, my brother committed suicide at age 35. At the time, I told my son, who was 4 years old, that his uncle had died in a car accident (in fact, he drove off a cliff). The topic of my brother's death continued to come up over the years. When my son was about 10, I gave him more specific information telling him that his uncle committed suicide as a way of seeking relief from desperate emotional pain for which he had been unable to find any other solution. More recently, a woman friend of mine who was terminally ill committed suicide by overdosing on sleeping pills. Her ex-husband decided not to tell their children (ages 12 and 17) because he thought they would feel that their mother had abandoned them. The children knew she was dying, but her death was oddly sudden all the same. What remains in that family, two years later, is the sense of a secret in the closet. It's my belief that the denial of what happened (ostensibly to protect the children) will return to haunt those kids over and over.

There have been others close to my son who have died: of cancer, asthma, old age, and by murder. On each occasion, I tell him in an age-appropriate manner what happened and then we find ways to honor the memories and spirits of the dead. Suicide is, sadly, a common response to chronic mental illness. As a society, we are primitives in dealing with this issue. Shame and stigma are still attached to anyone who suffers from emotional or mental imbalances. I think it would be really important to remind your children that their father's death is not about them, but a result of his own internal anguish. Allowing them to know what really happened and then giving them time and space to grieve (in all its stages) will probably be the best antidote to any risk category this might place them in. I wish you courage and strength however you handle this situation.

As for your children being more at risk to kill themselves, it is my firm belief that the risk is intensified by the level of secrecy and shame. So the more you can talk about the situation honestly, the less they will have to wonder about themselves. Also get them some therapy now.....that will help alot. I haven't seen the research but I bet that once children of suicides have children themselves, the risk of their committing suicide goes way down...they know how awful it is for the survivors. There are some good books about children and traumatic deaths....the main point, and this is reinforced by my experience, is that the shame and guilt of the surviving adults makes the death far more traumatic. One last thing: Because my mother killed herself, people were uptight about talking about her. So her death defined her life. None of the adults in my life ever helped me to understand her life, and what would lead her to take it. So try, in your pain, to remember their father by more than his last act.

As far as your children being at increased risk, there is still alot unknown about how heredity works with Bipolar Disorder. Most family members never develop any form of the illness. Your children's best bet is to educate themselves about the illness, and for other family members to be vigilant about noticing any early symptoms. There is much new research being done in this area, and it is really possible that in the next few years there could be new treatments that are more effective. The best way to keep up with these issues might be through NAMI, a grassroots organization devoted to mental health, they have a website at http://www.nami.org/. My best wishes are with you.

There is much good literature available on surviving suicide, and the county offers grief support groups for people who have had a loved one commit suicide. You can call the suicide prevention hotline for the number - its in the book. I recommend the grief groups because suicide is such a unique and devastating loss. Churches also offer grief counselling groups. There might be something you could attend as a family. Ultimately your kids will want to know how their father died, and the truth is the best policy.