Spirited Kids
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Spirited Kids
July 2012
Our four-year-old son is what you call a ''spirited child'' - intense
emotions, high energy, low frustration tolerance (leading to hitting, spitting
etc), and pretty smart. The preschool recommended to send him to a (private)
school with a low student-teacher ratio, where teachers are willing to work
with more difficult kids that need to be challenged intellectually. We are in
the Berkeley Central school district. I'd be grateful for any recommendations
(nothing recent in the files).
Mama of a fiery kid
Sorry, I don't have a school recommendation for you. But I wanted to reach out
because you described our son, and I wanted to share what worked for us. Our
private preschool in Oakland worked with us for our ''spirited'' child, they did
ask that we hire a ''shadow'' to work with him to help redirect his behaviors,
though. It was a costly year but worth it. We also started seeing an occupational
therapist. Having a shadow and the OT, helped us figure out how to help our little
man. If you haven't had your son evaluated by an OT, I strongly suggest it - just
a few little things have made life for everyone better. I don't know if BUSD does
Individualized Education Programs (IEP) for preschool (in OUSD it starts at 3); if
so, they should be able to help with OT and shadows.
We work with Sirena Masket (http://sirenamasketcraniosacral.com/about-me)
Good luck!
Another mama of another fiery kid
February 2007
My 14th month old is very active and very emotional (you know when she's happy, sad,
and especially angry)! She hates being still which means a physical battle for car
seat,
high chair, ciaper changes, clothing changes, and any time we have to stop her activity
or keep her from doing something. Unfortunately I have chronic pain (fibromyalgia/
lupus) and all of this struggle is really causing me a lot of pain. I'd love to hear
what
other parents of spirited kids have done in this situation and also how parents with
pain syndromes deal!
Hurting
You may not like this idea, but it worked for us--give up doing
all that stuff! It's really amazing, but so much of what we do
as parents isn't all that necessary. If you have an easygoing
kid and can get diaper changes regularly, then go for it. If,
however, your kid is ''spirited'' or wahtever you want to call it
and just resists those kinds of things, then skip it. (Of
course, if there are health issues like rashes, then that is
another story, but honestly, you'd be amazed how much pee those
things can hold!). Skip the car whenever possible, don't put
her in a stroller, but try slings or other carriesr that might
work with your chronic pain. THe main thing is to parent in a
way that reduces the struggling, for both of your sakes. I
know, i was there and eventually became totally dissatisfied
with the amount of struggle between my daughter and me. I had
to decide what i REALLY cared about (the list was quite short,
really) and go for those, and blow the rest of it off (ie,
hairbrushing, handwashing, clean clothes, diaper changes,
strollers, unnecessary car rides, wearing jackets, etc.).
I wish you luck, i know it is hard, and this is just the best
way we have figured out how to have a more peaceful home for
everyone in the family.
anon
Hi, I too have fibromyalgia and a very spirited child (now 2.3).
The best advice I can give is to hang in there because it will
get better as your daughter gets older and can understand what
you can and can't do. And she will get more cooperative about
clothes, when she understands the process more and gets
interested in what she wants to wear. I can now say to my
son: ''Mommy needs to put you down because her arms hurt. How
about if we sit on the couch together'' or whatever, and he
seems to get it. I also resort to bribery to get him in the car
seat sometimes--as in, you can have your bottle, pacifier,
snack, toy,etc. in your car seat, because I often just can't
physically force him into it (as his other mom can), and of
course the car seat is non-negotiable. For diaper changes, it
helped a lot to let my son stand up for them (holding on to
something when he was younger and unsteady), and to talk or sing
nonstop while doing it to distract him. I also have resorted to
DVDs (baby Einstein) to keep him distracted so I can get his
clothes on without a struggle. Also, I often wear soft(neoprene)
splints on my hands to stabilize and protect them. These are
available from PT or online/phone (brand: North Coast Medical.
800-821- 9319). And at your daughter's age, the Hip Hammock was
a lifesaver, as it is an easy way to put more of the weight on
hips, rather than arms/shoulders/back. I would keep it on and
when my son wanted to be picked up, it was easy to then put the
support around him for short periods (I could never carry him in
any kind of baby sling for long periods). Some of this may sound
like non-ideal parenting techniques, but the reality is that
using different strategies like these have made me a better,
more versatile and present parent and I seem to have produced a
well-adjusted, smart, verbal, loving and not-too-demanding-for-a-
2-year-old child. Feel free to email me to talk about this more.
I would like to meet more parents with this experience, as I
often feel pretty isolated.
Ellen
I had similar struggles with my daughter, now 2, at the same
age as your child. She would actually frequently cry and
resist carseats, crib and stroller so much she would vomit. I
finally signed up for a Kaiser's Spirited Child Temperment
class when my daughter was 18 months old. It helped a lot, and
I highly recommend it. My daughter just recently became a lot
easier! I know another year is a long time to wait. I also
started my daughter in daycare 3 half days a week because of
how challenging I found parenting a spirited child, and I don't
have any extra medical concerns to consider. So, if you
haven't already, I highly recommend some very part-time daycare
to get you the rest - both physically and emotionally - that
you need. Your daughter will also likely benefit greatly from
having others hold/restrain her (for diaper changes, stroller
rides, carseats, etc.). Good luck! It gets easier!
anon
June 2006
We need help for my 4 y.o. son who is very energetic,
impulsive, moody, prone to tantrums, has a short attention span
and is a poor listener. He also does not look people in the eye
very often. Lately he also seems to be very angry with the
things he says i.e. ''I don't like my Mommy'' ''I wish I had
another Mommy.'' We are absolutely exhausted having to deal with
his behavior. It seems like we are always reprimanding him and
we're so afraid of breaking his spirit with our constant
nagging. He is a wonderful, bright child with a big heart who
is full of life. We are extremely committed to helping our son,
but his behavior is so tiring.
We've had his hearing checked and it is normal. Although we
suspect he may have mild ADD, we're not entirely convinced
because he does focus on many things like sitting in circle
time at school, reading, coloring, working on the computer,
etc.
Has anyone had this experience with their child? What was the
outcome? Did you originally suspect ADD, but have it turn out
to be something else? Are there any therapists that you can
recommend? We're just not sure where to turn for help. Any
advice is greatly appreciated.
-Anon
Your 4-y.o. sounds very similar to my 4.5 y.o.--I hear you; it
is just exhausting! We are exploring therapy with an
Occupational Therapist, for Sensory Integration Dysfunction,
although I can't tell you for sure if it ''works'' because we just
started. The Sensory Integration framework seemed to fit our
son more than ADHD, although that's still a possible diagnosis.
I got my info on Sensory Integation (and recommended therapists)
from this website; the books to read are The Out of Sync Child
and The Sensory Sensitive Child. We are seeing O.T. Kristine
Hubner-Levin in Orinda; it is not covered by insurance and is
not cheap, but we are desperate for some help. I will be eager
to read the other replies you receive. Oh, and as for the
problem of always reprimanding your child, I know it's hard when
there is so much *to* reprimand about! But my husband and I
took a parenting class thru Kaiser last year, and they did
emphasize that these kids especially need to know you love them
and appreciate their good moments/qualities, so find whatever
small things you can to praise: ''Wow, you've been sitting at
the table so well these past few minutes!'' ''I like the way
you've been playing with your brother without screaming!'' Good
luck
Sympathetic Mom
Although my daugher was younger, I had a very similar situation
and was at my wits end also. I got a tremendous amount of help
from a woman named Patty Wipfler, Founding Director, Parents
Leadership Institute in Palo Alto, CA. She does classes at
Habitot sometimes and she will also do consultations by
telephone. Her approach is very different from anything else
that I had heard but it works great and I can see a huge
difference in my daughter.
Patty’s approach is called Stay listening and includes at least
20 minutes of Special time a day. There are also a couple
videos that she did at Bananas that you can rent out.
Patty's Contact information:
Parents Leadership Institute
http://www.parentleaders.org
ph:(650) 322-LEAD (5323)
cerfergirl
First of all, I'm sorry to say that I don't have any advice for
you, since we are dealing with the same thing with our child
(who is now 6 years old). I feel I could have written your
post! We have dealt with the same things you describe. It has
gotten somewhat better as he has gotten older, but not
entirely. I wish I had come out the other side and had some
great help for you, but I haven't! I just wanted you to know
that you are not alone and that I applaud your efforts to find
some help for him NOW (and you - it is SO exhausting) - we feel
like we've waited too long to do something - we kept
thinking ''he'll grow out of it.'' I eagerly await the advice you
receive and wish you the very best
Also exhausted
I got some useful advice when I sought help from a therapist regarding my
daughter's high level of activity, oppositional behavior, difficulty with transitions,
etc.. She recommended I speak with her teacher to see if her behavior differed when
at school vs. at home. Well I got quite the surprise when the teacher gave us the
unsolicited suggestion to have her evaluated for ADHD. It took about a year to
finally take her for an eval with a behavioral pediatrician. (From the reading I'd done
I was already fairly certain she had ADHD, but wanted a formal eval if she needed
any special services at school.So far, she hasn't. ) She was diagnosed with ADHD and
I have used a lot of techniques from the book, From Chaos to Calm Effective
Parenting of Challenging Children with ADHD and Other Behavioral Problems. My
understanding and experience at this point is that parenting will continue to be
extremely challenging.I don't think there is one perfect book, approach, technique
or therapy that will turn everything around. We tried using meds for a few days, but
did not give them a fair trial. We should probably consider another trial of
medication because, to be quite honest, it is difficult to enjoy spending time with
her. Like your son she is moody, so you never know what you're going to get. What
makes her happy one day is the source of discontent the next. She is so
oppositional, so uneager-to-please that I have become increasing short-tempered
with her as I find her behavior intolerable. My husband and I are great at giving her
praise when she is cooperative, so it's not like she only gets negative attention.
What I'm wondering is how other parents cope? I'm also wondering about your son's
social skills. It wasn't until my daughter was in the 2nd grade that the playdate and
birthday invites dropped off dramatically. She thinks being goofy is a real crowd
pleaser and doesn't notice when kids start rolling their eyes and think she's weird.
I guess this was a bit of advice, and a lot of catharsis. I do hope more parents of
ADHD kids will chime in. Hang in there
anonymous
We have a very challenging 4+ year old as well, and boy can it
be stressful. We had more behavioral type problems--temper
tantrums, defiance--than attention deficit problems, but
generally similar situation. We eventually had him evaluated by
a behavioral pediatrician affiliated with Children's Hospital,
to be sure that we weren't missing something like ADD/ADHD or a
sensory type issue, as very often these problems can result in
lots of behavior issues.
Once we were told that he showed no obvious development issues,
we decided to focus on making his life very predictable which
helped a lot. We also consider the book 'raising your spirited
child' to be something of our bible--it's been a huge help in
understanding temperment and trying to work with his innate
characteristics to help him be more successful. (And us to be
more successful parents as well!) We now are very careful not to
overschedule him, to make sure he has some time to himself, to
minimize trips to unknown or child unfriendly situations, and to
be understanding of temperment issues that might make some
situations(parties, visiting relatives, kid events) difficult.
We also tried to orchestrate 'successes' for both our child and
for us as parents. By this I mean things like visits to the park
or zoo at a time that is good for him, playdates with kids he
really did well with, short trips to the store, anything that we
could all come away from feeling successful.
The last thing I would mention, is that with a spirited kid it
is really important to protect the kid and yourselves from well
intentioned people who may not be supportive of a kid having a
very limited schedule. People thought it was lame that we
wouldn't go to restaurants and wouldn't travel with our guy for
about 6 months. But the fact was, those events were very likely
to be unsuccessful which was bad for our kid and bad for us as
parents. I really believe that arranging our lives so that we
could have more successes and fewer ''failures'' with our kid was
critical to all of our health and happiness
anonymous
Another perspective ... when I bought ''Your Explosive Child,''
and it didn't help, I knew that there was something more
than ''spirit'' going on with my daughter. She is twelve now and
taking medication, but when she was a young child unable to
express herself, we had NO CLUE that she had obsessive-
compulsive disorder. She had violent tantrums which would not
respond to anything; she was hyper-senstive to sound and
textures; she barely slept (nor did I!) Our first go-around
with diagnostics when she was five was a disaster - we knew what
behaviors were aberrant, but the therapist wanted to find out
what was ''wrong'' with our homelife. Finally, when she was
eight, we had her diagnosed correctly with OCD. OCD is a horror
to live with - we never took her out to eat, never interacted
with more than a couple of families with young kids, didn't take
her on special outings, etc., all because of the potential of
breakdowns. It's an ostracizing disorder, but not easy to
pinpoint when child is still very young. So ... not to frighten
anyone, but a ''spirited child'' isn't always ADHD, and you really
have to do a lot of learning if you want to rule out other types
of disorders. (By the way, medication can help!) Good luck
Dis-spirited mom!
November 2005
I am in desperate need of advice. I have a very difficult 3YO (in addition to my 1YO).
Things have gotten so bad with my eldest. I don't know whether I should take her to
get evaluated for some physical, mental or emotional problem or whether I am the
problem. I need some perspective. My daughter is tremendously bright, or at least
she used to be. Since her sister was born she has had serious problems. She is
hitting people and has ''forgotten'' how to use the potty. She is constantly screaming
and yelling. She always claims to be getting injured even when nothing happens.
She is scared of EVERYTHING and says she enjoys making people sad. She can't
seem to listen and follow directions anymore. My husband and I both feel like an
alien has abducted our daughter and replaced her with a monster. She was always
willful and focused, but never mean and insane like now. I can't even begin to tell
you how horrible her behaviour is. If you tell her what she's done wrong she
immediately does it again and laughs at you. I've tried everything to get this to stop.
I've tried no reaction and big reactions. I've tried charts and rewards and time outs
and deprivation of favorite toys or treats. I've tried coddling and being tough.
Nothing seems to change any of it. It is just getting worse and worse as time goes
on. What do I do? We were doing better and then all of a sudden - BAM it is so much
worse again. Her sister is so jealous too and between the 2 of them, it is just
screaming and crying all day. I really can't take another day of it. Any ideas?
Desperate Mom
Hi there, so sorry for your dillema. Although I can't comment on you daughter's
behavior, I would like to tell you that we had some similar concerns with my son
when he was around the same age. We didn't feel like he needed a real evaluation,
but we just wanted someone, a professional maybe, to weigh in on some of our
concerns and how to deal with them. We had read all the books, and found that a
really frustrating experience because books tend to assume that all children are
alike, and we wanted some advice that took our son's temperment into
consideration. A friend recommended a local child psychologist who we went to for
one session. She didn't even meet our son, but we described him and the issue in
general, and she was able to identify things that may be the problem and how to
deal with them. We found that really helpful. If it hadn't been helpful, she was also
available to observe our son at preschool, but her intial advice was right on and we
didn't have to go that route.
Her name is Mary Krentz, Phd. Her office is in Oakland and her phone number is 510
652-2629.
anon
Hi -- I'll be interested in hearing the advice from others, as I
am going through a rough time with my 3 year old right now as
well.
We've been following the advice from two books: ''Positive
Discipline'' and ''How to talk to kids so kids will listen, and
listen so kids will talk.''
We're finding that punishment like taking away toys, favorite
items and privileges isn't working. What is working best is
taking our child to her room and locking the children's gate and
then going to the kitchen. It sounds like your daughter might
like the extra attention from her tantrums (especially since she
is sharing the house with a new sibling.) Perhaps you'll get
good results if you move her from you whenever she is acting up
(and then you can play with the other child). I hear that kids
with new siblings often have severe behavior changes while they
adjust.
When we take our daughter to her room, we tell her that she
needs to be by herself until she can calm down and be nice. We
don't allow hitting or being mean and she can come be with us
when she is ready to be nice. Keep the words short and remind
her that you always love her.
We're trying to set up firm limits too! Our child really needs
to make decisions and be in charge so we give her a few
options... but if she doesn't act on one of the options in a
reasonable amount of time, then we pick her up and take her to
her room (alone) until she is ready to cooperate. We're also
letting her help decide the options and we give her as much
control as we can unless her safety is at stake. We don't yell
or talk down to her. We do all we can to stay calm and
respectful to her... but we're trying real hard to make sure she
knows the rules and we make sure to be extremely firm and follow
through with discipline. It's hard when we go places, and
honestly I'm trying to stay home as much as possible right now
while we work on establishing order again. We talk about
behavior before we leave the house, and she knows that we'll
leave wherever we are immediately if she has a tantrum and we
talk about not being able to do fun things if she can't behave.
We're also making sure to avoid sugar and we are giving her lots
of snacks to eat. I notice that a lot of the tantrums occur if
she hasn't eaten in the past hour.
Can't wait to get more advice from others!
Good Luck!
We were in a similar situation with our son when he was 3 yrs
old. I thought it was his pre-school, which allowed him to run
wild, but then with a little perspective I realized that it was
a phase. And as hard as it was, it too has passed. We had such
difficult behavior problems that when he would scream and throw
hair raising tantrums I had to lock him in the house and sit
with my 3 month old baby outside the front door b/c I thought
he would damage my youngest son's ears!
Use time outs if you can. My son would continue to act out
during his time outs. My rule was and still is: if you continue
to scream you get an extra minute, if you throw toys you get an
extra minute for every toy thrown. I use my oven timer for time
outs and my kids can here the ''beeps'' for every minute I add!
Then the privaleges were taken away: videos, play dates, etc.
So hang in there. Be tough, and know that it just a rough
phase. Try not to do things you might regret (i.e. spank out of
anger etc.) and stay CALM. My son was returned by aliens and
now is a good humored, sensitive, better behaved and easy going
kid now.
Anon
On a friend's recommendation I'm reading How to Talk So Your
Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk.
I'm reading as it instructs - one
chapter and then practice for a week or more before moving on.
I saw a change in my almost 3YO daughter's behaviour and our
interactions after trying the first ''lesson''. Doesn't prevent
all disagreements, but it's teaching me a new way to
communicate and making a noticable difference.
anon
Sounds like your daughter has some strong feelings about being a big sister and is
trying really hard to express it in her own special way. I would recommend a very
good book by Aletha Solter called ''Helping Young Children Flourish.'' It provides a
different approach to looking at what we traditionally see as ''misbehavior'' and gives
some great ideas for addressing it in a supportive and positive way. I know it's hard
to take, but if you can remember that your daughter is just trying to communicate
something challenging with you, it might be helpful to all of you. Remember that
she's only 3 years old, with a limited understanding of how the world works and
how to try and be heard and comforted. Take a look at this book and you can also
check out her website at www.awareparenting.com
All the best to you all
November 2003
I wanted to pose an interesting question to the group. We
have a very high energy two-year old- yes, I know all two year
olds are energetic, but ours is more so than most. We love
her enthusiasm, but she seems to have difficulty with her
impulses (again, more than other two year olds,) so that
affection like hugs and kisses turns into hurting others very
quickly. She fidgets constantly, and needs to be moving all
the time or she gets very tense. Often I can see her trying to
rein herself in, but she almost shakes with the effort of
controlling her impulses, and she seems to have a very
hard time settling down or relaxing at all. She is in a
preschool where there is lots of 'running around' time, and
that helps her tremendously, but I'd like to give her some
other strategies for channeling or dealing with her energy.
Her dad is also has lots of nervous energy as well (people
often comment on his fidgeting,) but he is still working on
ways to deal with it, so he can't offer her much yet.
Anyone have a child with similar issues, or any other high
energy adults that can weigh in on this? I'm thinking of
things like deep breathing or tensing and relaxing parts of
her body. I'm looking for age-appropriate things, but if you
have anything that has worked for older kids that we could
try in the future, that would be great. Thanks!
mom of a firecracker
i believe the book ''how to raise your spirited child'' might
have some good advice. good luck!
anon
A few things I'd look into: diet first, see if she's more
settled and happy without certain foods. You may have to
eliminate a few things you suspect (sugar? dairy? artificial
colors? yeast? wheat?) and then reintroduce one at a time to see
if that causes a behavior change. You may also want to try
bodywork, my very active kids seemed to settle and feel more in
control of themselves with Jin Shin Jyitsu (spelling?)
treatments. I've also heard good things about Bach Flower
essences for this kind of thing. Good luck.
CK
Hi,
I can totally relate to being the Mom of an active 2 year old.
I have (mostly) solved this problem by introducing as much
physical activity on a daily basis as we can viably manage. I
would say for the past 1.5 years (my son will be 3 soon) he has
gone to the park virtually daily and many times twice a day,
just to ''get it out'' (nanny takes him during the day, then I
will take him again at night, weather and daylight permitting).
I've also purchased a fold-up large piece of foam so he can just
jump at home--on and on--which he did tonight for over an hour
after he got up from his nap (actually, since we just purchased
his new ''big boy bed'', tonight he was jumping onto his old crib
mattress, now stored under the bed). He jumps, and every once
in a while I throw in a jump or two (I'm no spring chicken!)and
a great time is had by all! We also have this bouncy ball he
received a! s a gift-that is often good for 1/2 hour of solid
jumping, and works in the house. It is very noticeable when he
doesn't get in some serious physical outlet during the day-
becoming cranky and angst filled ... I can't recommend it
highly enough to preserve sanity!
Janice
May 1998
A spirited child is a child
who, for whatever reason, may be difficult or challenging to
deal with in a "typical" way. Children may experience tantrumming,
explosive anger, temperment problems, or many other symptoms.
I strongly recommend a book by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, "Raising Your
Spirited Child". If your child is spirited, which seems likely,
parenting is quite different than it would be if he isn't. This book
covers it pretty well and is very readable. I'm reading parts of it
over again. My daughter is gradually getting easier to be with and
seems happier, thanks to some counseling, discussions with preschool
staff, and this book. I know the demands will change as she grows,
but really understanding the fundamentals about this temperament is
our key. It's not easy, but spirited children can be so creative and
joyful, I'm sure it's more than worth all the effort.
nancy
"Spirited" kids, by definition, tend to be very intense about their
emotions, very high-energy, extremely assertive and ... in circumstances
when a child of a different temperment might just go along and accept a
rebuke ... for example, a mild spanking, which would cause many kids to
just "stop" ... a "spirited" kid will often start hitting back. (So
effectively disciplining such a child, without starting a huge spiraling
effect, takes special strategies.) There are other ways in which spirited
kid also typically fight back. My almost three-year-old daughter, for
example, has been evaluated as "spirited." She is one of the smallest in
her class, but if another child tries to take something away from her, she
will hang onto the toy and as a result has been bitten, pushed down and hit
many times by various two-year-old boys. Nothing phases her, she continues
to be assertive and in fact is great friends with these boys. It's just
that many children would back down in certain situations and she just
won't, no matter what the outcome. She does the same thing with me at
home. So ... one thing is ... if this boy is at home all the time, mom may
be experiencing ALL the assertive, intense, moody behaviour that (for
example) my daughter distributes freely between her teachers, peers, and
me. (Alicia can also be generous, kind and utterly charming. But she is,
her teachers say, "challenging" in her behaviours.)
There are specific, learnable strategies for setting limits with, and
disciplining, a "spirited" child so that the limits are effective and not
the beginning of an all out battle. I'd recommend calling Bananas and
asking when their next class is (they co-sponsor ... with Kaiser ... a
class for parents taught by a child psychologist.) The psychologist will
call the parent and interview the parent over the phone, as a screening
process ... to make sure this really is the appropriate class and the
parent isn't wasting their time and money. I took the class and recommend
it highly.
In all
fairness, I should say I've also seen her grab stuff from and push
other kids ... and she bites me sometimes (although not other kids ... just
Mommy. how special) The point is not whether or not she is being the
"agressor" or the "victim," "good"" or "bad" ... two year olds don't even
think in those terms, and she continues to be close friends with those she
has pushed as well as those she hasn't, and they all share cupcakes and
hugs in their mellow moments. The POINT is that children with stubborn,
highly emotional, determined tempermanets are that way INHERENTLY and they
don't really change ... one has to come up with workable strategies for a
kid of that nature, which is no mean feat.
MC
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