Kids & Lying
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Kids & Lying
July 2007
My child is nearly 12. She's been
lying a lot over the past 6 months, mostly around issues of
schoolwork and misplaced or damaged items (primarily clothing).
I've always followed the general advice to make clear that
consequences for lying will be more serious than for the mistake
or wrongdoing at issue. In other words, I didn't want her to be
so afraid of the punishment that she'd lie to avoid it. There's
never been any corporal punishment; consquences have revolved
around TV-watching restrictions. Only about a month ago did I
start curtailing playdates and overnights with friends.
I've talked to her about each incident, why she lied instead of
telling the truth (''I don't know'' is the most consistent
response) and she always promises not to lie any more. That
lasts until the next thing (sometimes only days later). I am at
a loss to know what to do.
I feel I should add that I feel that at some point my daughter
has to learn to deal with the consequences of actions -- that
sometimes in life people will get angry at her for something
she's done or not done. The consequences of mistakes or
forgetting do get more serious. A future employer, for example,
isn't going to worry about scaring her if he or she is angry
because she's missed a deadline or lost a key document.
I'd appreciate suggestions on how to handle both the lying and
guiding my daughter in learning to deal with... well, frankly,
life.
Worried Mom
I would be concerned about what is going on with her school
activities, friendships, activities that might be influencing
her. I know that I started a down-hill trend in the 8th grade;
got involved with who I thought were the ''cool'' kids, started
cutting classes, skipped piano lessons, etcetera. I ended up
dropping out of high school and I won't even go into what
trouble I ultimately got in to. The point is, is your daugher
lying because she's going through a phase? Or is she lying
because she's being influenced by peer pressure and other things
at school? The end result is that you need to be mindful that
her lying might not be something simple, that it might require
you to get more involved with what's going on with her -- and
that her lying might be a lot more than simply ''lies'' -- it
might have to do with what she's getting involved with in her
school life. On the bright side, maybe she's just acting out,
and you should just be strict but open to communication (which
you must be, no matter what she's going through).
Good luck.
Anon
This looks like a perfect place to use ''love and Logic''
techniques. I don't actually like the techniques for my child
(who is 6), but the techniques really deal with the natural
consequences of choices,and really work to get your child to
understand responsibility.
Just google love and logic. They have a book, an email that
comes out every week, and apparently they have a session that you
can attend. A friend of mine loves it.
good luck
I wonder if there isn't something else going on with your daughter. Have
you gone
down the ''check list?'' Unusual stressors, changes in the home, school,
or any other
event or situation that could cause this reaction? I bet she is a pretty
sweet kid...
anon
Oct 2006
We're catching our daughter, a 6th grader, lying a lot lately.
Mostly, she's lying to try to avoid getting in trouble for
something she's done that she knows is wrong or about homework.
What's been a little disturbing, is how easily she does it. She
doesn't seem to think twice about it-- there is no hesitation.
We've done some reflecting about how we might be contributing to
the problem and over the last several weeks have tried to make
sure we don't overreact to issues, one of the ways we thought we
might be contributing to it. Rather than get better, it only
got worse. We think we're catching her most of the time, but
who knows. Any ideas? I'd love to hear from parents who found
things that worked.
Oakland parent
I went through this myself around that age, and it drove my
parents crazy (and eventually got me in big trouble and I was put
in therapy for a year). Over the years I have tried to understand
it, and I think it was both a desire to avoid getting in trouble
(which was a big deal in our household) and an inability to admit
mistakes. I can't say I outgrew it easily, I think it would have
helped tremendously to have parents who tried to really
understand the behavior. So my only advice is keep trying to find
ways to make it easier for your daughter to tell you the truth,
especially if she has made a mistake. Try to examine how you
react when you make a mistake - do you admit it to her, let her
see how you take responsibility for it?
Lying can become second-nature, and it's not a healthy habit to
develop. Try to talk with your daughter about how it makes her
feel to lie, and how it would be different if she could be
honest. Ask her what would help her be comfortable being honest
with you.
My parents tried the approach of making me ''earn back'' their
trust. I think that backfired somewhat, I just felt on the
defensive all the time. Only an environment of trust will foster
a child's honesty, and you will need to find a way to punish her
for specific lies (however you do that) without resorting to
calling her a ''liar'' or telling her that you don't believe
anything she says
anon
March 2005
Recently, our second grade daughter stole about $2 in quarters from her
grandmother's state quarters collection. After admitting she was responsible,
my daughter expressed deep remorse, voluntarily gave me ''all the quarters'' to
give back to her grandmother, wrote her grandmother a letter telling her how
ashamed she was and asking what she needed to do to make it up to her
grandmother, and told me that she understood how wrong this was and that
she would never do it again. In addition to returning the quarters, her
grandmother asked her to do certain chores for the next four times she visited.
Then two days later my husband discovered more quarters on top of our
daughter's dresser. It turned out that she had kept part of the money she
took, hiding it inside a shirt. When she decided to wear the shirt she put the
hidden money on top of her dresser where my husband noticed it. So we
talked again, this time stressing even more strongly the consequences of
stealing, everything from loss of her family's trust, to not being able to freely
play or even be welcomed to other people's houses to going to jail for stealing
and how awful it is to live in jail. As we spoke, I started crying. She became
very serious working hard to comfort me. We put her on a month of restricted
privileges. She has been behaving like an angel, observing her restrictions
zealously.
This was her third stealing/lying/hiding incident In the past year. However, it
was the first time that we know for sure that she has stolen outside our home.
In the first two incidents, she first lied unequivocally saying she had not taken
anything and became furious at us for finding out what she had done, telling
her it was stealing, and requiring her to return or pay for what she had taken.
Each of the first two times, she continued to deny having taken anything even
when we knew for sure, making up improbable explanations of why she had
the items in her possession, then exploding with anger when we didn't accept
her stories. After she calmed down and admitted what she had done, she still
expressed anger that we had not believed her. She didn't have the anger
explosion this time.
We believe that there's a worsening pattern of behavior that needs to be
stopped. What have other parents done? How do we handle visits--especially
solo visits--to the homes of relatives and friends? How do we tell if she's
really trying to change her behavior? How and when do we take steps to
rebuild trust? What if she steals or lies to us again?
Worried Mom
I have a confession....I was a 2nd grade thief and liar too. Looking back on the
situation, there were several family issues going on during that time and my
self-psycho-analysis tells me that I wanted some attention. I was the oldest of
2, my parents adopted an OLDER sibling and suddenly I was the middle child.
My grandmother (who preferred my brother over myself simply because he was
male) lived with us and my dad travelled alot for work at the time. It probably
wasn't the best way to get attention, but I was starving for ANY attention,
good, bad, or otherwise. Is there anything going on with your daughter that
would make her feel like she needs some extra attention? What worked for
me? My parents are smart smart people. It took some time, but they figured it
out. We started ''buddy day''. Every Saturday, the 3 of us kids rotated Buddy
Day with Mom or Dad. When it was our turn, we could do anything we wanted
with either mom or dad (I think they rotated days too...) I always chose
McDonalds with my dad for some reason. I clearly remember scraping the
onions off my cheeseburgers....it's a stupid ''activity'' but I simply adored Buddy
Day. Undivided attention. I kinda miss it, just thinking about it again makes
me want to call mom and dad and schedule another buddy day. Again, I don't
know what specific issues or non-issues you, your daughter or your family
have...maybe none or maybe something you thought wasn't a big deal but to
her it is. Mine were clearly huge and your post just reminded me of that little
learning period in my life.
(By the way....I turned out okay!) ;-)
Lying 6-year-olds
1999
My almost 6 year old son has been in the habit lately of "tricking"
us, as he likes to refer to it, although it is basically blantant
lying. My husband and I have explained to him to story behind "crying
wolf" but to no avail, its not working. He will often look straight at
us and lye about things we've asked him, often serious questions --
when we're not playing around. He'll tell us things such as "no, I
didn't do that" or "I didn't say that", etc. when it's perfectly clear
to everyone around him that he did do XYZ. I'm not sure what to do,
or how to handle this. I especially don't want him to get trapped
into a behavior which will make people believe that he is always
"tricking" or never telling the truth. Maybe time will take care of
it once it finally catches up to him, although I would prefer to nip
it now. Thanks.
What we did when our children told us lies.
Each time they were caught, the had to write out the sentence:
"I will not lie to my parents."
And each time they were caught, the number of time that they had to
write it out doubled. This was clearly explained to them.
We started with 25 times and went up from there.
Our oldest had to write it 200 times for the last lie before she quit,
but that was the end of it.
The second one learned from the first and never had to do it. The third one
has had to do the first 25 so far.
Failure to complete the sentences resluts in total loss of privledges -
TV, radio, stereo, computer, books, games, lessons, homework, sports, nothing
is an acceptable excuse. Basically, "Do it now and no fooling around."
I choose my issues very carefully and this is a VERY BIG issue.
Obviously this is not workable with a child that can't yet write.
For the younger set, I would explain to the child that the behavior is
called a lie, and that it is unacceptable and follow it with a long
time out.
I don't have much in the way of advice regarding your son's behavior, but I
went through this as a child at around this age, too. Maybe it has
something to do with the power of words and the desire to change what
actually is real. (If I say I didn't do it, then maybe I didn't actually do
it...) In any case, after years of getting *found out* in my lies, I came
to the conclusion that lying wasn't worth it. As an adult I find it almost
impossible to lie - I get flushed, and smile a lot, basically totally giving
it away. I have no idea if this reassures you or not, but I'm betting he
grows out of it as well.
Good luck.
Feb 2007
My husband just got the dreaded phone call from my daughter's
(age 4) pre-school asking if we included blueberries in her
lunch (we had not). Apparently, our daughter insisted those were
hers much to the dismay and tears of another girl. Of late, she
has been telling more ''lies'' or stories - like having her hand
in the cookie jar and insisting that it's not hers (and our cat
gets blamed for many things now) - and I get that this is
developmentally normal. It was helpful to read posts on BPN on
this subject. I guess her taking something that does not belong
to her really bothers me. I know that I will not get responses
to this before I pick her up in a few hours, but I did want to
get ideas on how to deal with this in the future. My plan is to
pick her up and ask about the episode and hope that my daughter
can empathize with the other girl's loss/feelings. My hope is to
be calm about this and keep reminding my daughter of our
unconditional love. She tends to be a girl who does not get in
trouble so on the rare incidents when she does something against
the ''rules'' and we talk about it, she shows intense sad and
angry feelings. It helps just to write this and send it off as a
posting but I would love to hear about other's success and
struggles dealing with this issue. Thanks
worried mama
I could have written this post! My daughter recently went
through this same phase, taking things out of the classroom that
did not belong to her, bringing things home in her lunch box. We
had several conversations with her about it, and each time she
got very upset and cried, almost hysterical. I tried to
emphasize that taking things from others makes them feel bad,
and I asked her how it would make her feel if someone took her
precious blanket and didn't tell her. She seemed to respond best
to that. And the behavior just stopped after a couple of weeks,
which will likely be the case with your daughter as well.
Daughter Not Headed for Sing Sing
I felt a little sad for your daughter when I read how you titled
your post ''four year old lies and steals''. I do not think that
it is in the nature of children so young to steal or be
duplicitous in any way. Try to remember that children are
pretty focuced on the present only and what they want at that
given moment in time. Your daughter saw the blueberries in
someone else's lunch and wanted them. The next time something
like this happens, say to your daughter ''oh, the teacher called
and said there was a misunderstanding about the blueberries and
the other little girtl felt really badly. Please don't do that
again. And then, make it light. If you want blueberries in your
lunch, we can get fresh blueberries, blueberry yogurt, blueberry
muffins, in fact, we can have a blueberry festival. But, we
must bring our own food from home. That's the rule so no one
gets confused. O.K.?. And then, DROP it!!! Do not continue to
give your child heavy guilt trips over little things. State the
rule, make it light, state the rule again. And then, follow up
by actually having her get some blueberries or give you
suggestions of what to include in the lunch. Ditto with the
cookies. I think it is actually kind of cute that she has the
imagination to blame it on the cat. If you don't want her
sneaking cookies, put them away. Set up regular cookie and milk
time. Stick to the rules. Tell her that Mr. Puss in Boots is
reminded that cookie hour is at 4:00 and that the milk will be
cold. Try not to be so controlling. Have the conversations with
the Cat yourself. Your daughter will get the messages that you
want to convey by stating the rules, making it fun, and stating
the rules again. ''Oh that was nice cookie time, same time
tomorrow, right Mr. Boots? Oh, and Mr. Boots, if I catch you
sneaking cookies, we really won't be able to do it again
tomorrow because you will already have had your fill and that
would be such a shame because I like to have this time with
you.
a mother of two whose children love it when mr. Cat talks
Lying Three-year-olds
1998
Our three-year-old daughter has started lying recently along the lines
of "I didn't spill my milk" and "I didn't push my brother", when she
did them right in front of me or my husband. I don't think our
response to these acts is harsh or unpredictable. Our response to her
lying, which has been to talk to her about telling the truth and how
that's more important than spilling milk, has not been particularly
effective - at least not visibly. I am wondering if anyone has
anything to say about instilling honesty in children of this age.
Deborah
I have a 3 & 1/4 year old and am looking forward to the answers. I looked
in a couple of my books last night. Brazelton's Touchpoints and Leach's
Birth to 5 years. What I could glean was that a preschoolers very active
fantasy life mixes up with reality, plus there is the development of
concious and guilt. So the statement of "I didn't do it" may arise out of
a very strong wish that she/he hadn't done it...and it becomes reality for
a moment. Both books talk about not making an emotional big deal about it
just being matter-of-fact that you saw something occur (and it sounds like
you are being successfully low-key about it). The significance of truth vs
lie become more important at about age 6 or so. Right now it is more of an
issue of (truth) reality vs fantasy. Last night was thinking about your
question, I spilled a cup of water on the floor. So I remarked to my
daughter "look what I just did..oops." There are so many instances when we
wish we had done something differently. It must be hard to discern (from a
3 year old point of view) which situations really need to be different (ie
hitting someone or being deliberately mean) vs situations that are nice to
avoid but not serious (ie spilling on the floor by mistake). Let us know
what works for your family.
Karen
I have concerns about truth-telling too. My 3 year old daughter sometimes
makes up stories along the same lines, although usually to do with kids at
school so I haven't witnessed the (alleged) event. Usually, I try to get
her to explain the whole story, so I can make sure I'm not accusing her of
dishonesty if something really has happened that made her feel bad. If
something is clearly not true, I ask her why she has said it happened, and
tell her it is not nice say something not true about someone else. She has
a vivid imagination, and often acts out scenes from books and videos. She
has also been known to state that she has painted/made that flower, sky,
picture, necklace, etc., I think "testing" us for our "gullibility factor"
because she looks for a reaction, so I make a neutral statement like "it's
beautiful," or "how did you do that?" I did once ask the doctor about
"instilling honesty," and was told that conscience doesn't usually kick in
until about 4-5 years old. At 3, children are usually learning about
fantasy, and it takes a while to sort out what's "real" and what's not.
The advice was to do what you are already doing: calmly explain the basic
value of telling the truth, and it will take hold as circumstances/examples
add up. (My husband is in child development and works with 2-5 year olds,
so he knows a lot more about this than I do!). I guess the issue for me is
how to teach important values while encouraging a developing imagination.
Laura
My little boy is 7 now but I have handle the issue of lying in a way that
has helped in his early years and is still working. I've consistently
stressed to him that if he tells the truth - he doesn't get punished. Of
course I will find out or see if he is lying so I will know what is a lie
or what is the truth. He might get a stern talking to and lecture, but no
punishment. If I find out that he has lied then there is punishment which
has taken the form of sending him to his room to "think about his actions",
me manifesting a non understanding and exasperated mood and expressing my
strong dissatisfaction, no treats, or whatever has seems appropriate at the
age. It has never really got to any REAL punishment because it has worked
quite well. Positive reinforcement about truth telling in his early years -
regardless of the severity of the action - has worked. I have told him
that telling the truth is sometimes the hardest thing and that we always
will have to talk about it (no real getting off), but that he should not be
fearful of the ramifications of truth telling. Even now, when I ask him if
things like if he threw his lunch away or ate it, he will tell me exactly
why and what he threw away and what he ate. Sometime, it takes a little
coercion and a reminder of the "no punishment for truth " rule, but the
decision almost always is to avoid the P word. Hope this helps.
Andrea
I don't think this is really lying -- I think they are testing the limits
of their control. Can the kid change reality by saying it's different than
it is? I think they learn whether or not to lie from the actions of those
around them. If the adults are truthful (that is saying it will hurt when
it does and not saying it won't hurt when it will; not pretending things
are ok when they are not, etc) the kids will learn they have nothing to
lose by telling the truth.
This is based only on personal experience and anecdotal evidence.
Margy
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