Career as a Therapist/Psychologist
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Career as a Therapist/Psychologist
Feb 2010
Rather than search aimlessly online I am hoping that the BPN community can
help me answer this. My very bright and hard working nanny would like to
become a clinical/counseling psychologist, however she is worried about the
cost of the education, as she does not want to go into debt. I would hate to
see her give up on a dream for financial reasons.
If you can shed light on any or all of the following questions we'd appreciate
your input:
- Do most of the students who enter a PhD or PsyD program already have a
masters degree or is it easy to get into a program right after an undergrad
degree? Does it help to have work experience relevant to the field?
- What are the pros and cons of going to a professional school compared to a
research institution? What are the requirements to get admitted?
- What is the average time to graduation in a PhD/PsyD program (not the
stated length of the program, but actual time it takes).
- Can you recommend some programs here in the Bay Area?
- Is it easy to get financial aid? I am in science and there graduate students
in general do not pay for their education but instead work as teaching and
research assistants during their PhD, is that available in psychology
programs? What about other types of financial aid or alternatives to taking
loans?
- What are the job prospects/expected salary after graduation, do they justify
taking loans?
I am a licensed clinical psychologist with a PhD and I am a researcher at Cal.
So I can answer questions from that perspective (I don't have first-hand
knowledge of professional schools).
PhD and PsyD programs include the Masters degree. Most programs want
applicants with BAs, not MAs. Professional schools are expensive and the
training is not empirically-based or rigorous. However, they are much easier
to get into and do not take so long to complete (maybe 4 yrs. for a
professional school degree compared to an average of 6 yrs. for a PhD from a
university). I don't know about requirements to get into a professional
school. But to get into a university-based PhD program you need good GREs
and great recommendations. You need research experience and you need to
formulate ideas about the research you want to pursue. University-based
programs receive, literally, hundreds and hundreds of applications and
typically accept 5 to 10 students per year. The odds of admission at a
professional school are much higher.
I don't know about financial aid at professional schools, but in a university-
based PhD program there are lots of options for teaching and fellowships,
although these are harder for foreign students to get.
I can't say what her chances are of admission. If she wants to get into a
university program, she needs to find volunteer or paid work as a research
assistant at a place like Cal or UCSF or Stanford. She also needs to study hard
for the GREs.
The real issue is what kind of work she wants to do when she is finished. If
she had NO interest in research, academics, teaching, and wants to be a
clinician (therapist) then the professional school or PsyD would be a better fit
for her. The major down side is that it is very expensive.
And incidentally, the licensure process is completely separate from the grad
school process. Once she has a PhD or PsyD there is another process
involving amassing clinical hours, taking courses, and then sitting for 2
exams that will ultimately result in licensure.
Liz O.
Maybe she could check out some of the open houses that are
offered at some of the local campuses that offer these
sorts of programs? I am a licensed Marriage Family
Therapist and went to school at JFK University in Pleasant
Hill where in my program and in the PsyD program I
remember there being several international students, so
there must be some assistance in not only figuring out how
prior educations transfer as well as financial
assistance. There are several private school options in
the area JFKU, Wright Institute, Argosy University, CIIS,
(more?) as well as the public state schools and
universities in the Bay Area. Another thing for her to
consider is the length of time not only for the university
degree but also the required internship hours and then
state licensing exams, for me to become an MFT from
beginning school to getting licensed took 6 years and that
was doing everything full time (minus a 5 month maternity
leave.) Hope this info is helpful.
Caroline
My experience with this was 10 years ago. But when I
applied to grad school, good clinical Ph.D. programs were
very difficult to get into - they take small numbers of
students and you sort of needed to already have your name
on published research papers and target your application
to a specific faculty member with your interests. That
said, if you get into one of these programs, the financial
situation is good.. there are research funds to support
grad students. PsyD programs are easier to get into, but
cost much more. Overall, my opinion is that this field is
difficult financially - the programs are 6yrs for a
doctorate, then you have to pay for supervision hours and
build a practice. I'd suggest getting a Master's degree
first - it will be quicker to get working and she may find
it's sufficient for what she wants to do. She can always
go back for a doctorate later!
anon
Aug 2008
Hi, for anyone who's gone through the licensure to become a
California MFT in the last several years: I'm trying to get a
sense of how long, once the 3000 clinical hours are completed,
the process of licensure takes: applying, taking the test,
waiting for results, getting the license. If the test isn't
passed and has to be re-taken, how much time does that add to
the process? I'd be glad to hear about anyone's experience.
Getting ready...
I am an LCSW licenced within the last year and i believe the
process is identical but i'm not 100% sure. Once you finish
your hours, and have taken all your pre-requiste classes, you
are eligible to sit for the part 1 of the exam. my
recollection is that the board has 90 days to get back to you
once all your paperwork is turned in and then you can sit for
the first exam. Once you have passed the first exam (i didn't
pass 2x's and they make you wait 6 months between taking the
exams) you will get a piece of paper saying you passed to send
into the board with your money and then once this is accepted
you are eligible to sit for the second exam (the same 6 months
rule applies for taking the exam again if you do not pass).
The results of the exam are immediate now that you take it on
the computer. Your board is the best best to talk to about
specifics.
anon
Hi,
I finished my licensing process in May, so all of the info is
very fresh!
I'm not sure if you already have your hours, or still need to get
them, but you can be eligible to take the test within about 15
days of submitting your paperwork. You can start studying for
the test before you are done with your hours. However, I found
that to be emotionally pretty stressful--I was so happy to be at
the end of the process, but it was still a hard transition.
Practically speaking the knowledge tested in the two tests is
very similar, but the focus in the first test is more 'name that
tune. The second test has more of a focus on knowing the
difference between theories and the specifics of their treatment
plans. I did Gerry Grossman seminars for both, and found myself
very well prepared. There is a temptation just to take the
practice tests, but I strongly urge you to study the raw
material. A friend used a different system and found the Gerry
Grossman practice exams to be much more like the real test.
I you don't pass the tests the first time you have to wait 180
days (6 months) to take it again. I found it very useful to have
a study partner for the second exam.
Sarah
Feb 2008
I'm considering switching careers, from academia to therapy, but
I need more information before I make the leap. I find my
current job to be quite stressful and incompatible with my desire
to have time and mental energy for my family, or with my desire
to stay in the Bay Area. I think I have a knack for listening,
empathizing, and giving practical advice and would enjoy working
with people one-on-one.
Here are my questions:
1) How should I go about deciding which degree I need (MFT, PsyD,
MSW, PhD...), and which school? Is there a resource online, or a
book that describes the options? I'm particularly interested in
cognitive behavioral therapy, since this is the therapy that I've
found most useful personally.
2) I have a toddler-age daughter and hope to get pregnant again
soon, so I'm eager to find a career that I could build part-time
while my kids are small. Is it possible to obtain a degree and
log the necessary hours of experience on a part-time basis?
3) How much can I expect to make in the Bay Area, once I'm
working full time and have completed interning? My husband has a
well-paid job so I could swing the financial sacrifice for a
while but not indefinitely...
4) Are there sources of stress/unhappiness in this career that I
might not be anticipating? Does it continue to be stimulating
after many years of practice? How difficult is it to build up a
private practice?
If anyone would be willing to talk to me personally, please leave
your e-mail address. Thanks!
anon
I am a licensed therapist and this is a second career for me. I
was formerly a video producer and journalist.
I have worked in schools, pediatric hospice, and mental health
agencies. I currently supervise trainees (graduate school
students) and interns(post grad)at a bay area mental health agency.
I would be happy to share what I know and what I tell my students.
Debra
I'll give you my perspective on question #4. As a therapist in
Berkeley who knows many others in private practice (it sounds like
that's what you're asking about), it is quite difficult to build a
full practice. This is one of the most therapist-saturated areas in
the country (like top 3 or something like that). The majority of
therapists I know (and virtually all of them in their first 10 years
after licensure) are struggling to maintain a full client load
(whether that's full time or part time). That is not to say that many
people don't support themselves nonetheless. I find it difficult as a
mother to figure out a schedule since it's easiest to fill early
morning and evening hours with clients, while these are the hours that
I am least able to work since I have little kids. However, by the
time you'd be licensed, your kids will be bigger. Will you be willing
to work 1 or more evenings? (Almost everyone does.) (Note that it
will take you probably 6 years or more from starting grad school to
being licensed, and most internships are unpaid.) Building a private
practice is easier if you're a networking kind of person, someone who
is willing to put yourself out there, market yourself in some way.
So, it's not an easy or well-paid road. However, I am happy I picked
this field, especially given that my family is not reliant on my
income. I really enjoy the work after 15 years doing it, and still
feel like I have a lot of control over my hours and what interests I
pursue. I can get involved in new projects and areas of focus, so my
interest never wanes. I love the work with clients and the work on
myself which I see as the cornerstone to being a good therapist. Be
prepared to examine yourself constantly and not get paid much!
good luck!!
I had the same question as you. I talked to several therapists
about the same thing. Basically, I decided not to go into it
because of the financial component. Getting hours is difficult
and takes a lot more time than the coursework. Also, you don't
get paid well while working. It's very hard to build a private
practice with the intense competition here in the Bay Area where
therapists are a dime a dozen. Most of the jobs are with
socioeconomically disadvantaged populations and involve a lot of
triage, not much depth work which is what most people think of
when they think of therapy. One therapist I talked to had to work
a lot of part time jobs outside of therapy just to survive and
when choosing a job in therapy, had to settle for one in a jail.
As far as getting a doctorate, one therapist who worked years to
get it, said even with the Phd, it was extremely difficult to get
a decent salaried position and building a private practice was
just as hard as with a MFT. Incidentally, this person is
supported by a spouse and can pick and choose, so you might be
able to do the same thing as well. However, getting a salaried
position where you actually get to do real therapy is very hard
no matter what the circumstances.
Glad I Didn't Go That Route
Dear Anon
Both my wife and I are psychotherapists in the E Bay. We have
practiced in an HMO, County Govt., NonProfits, Schools, Criminal
Justice Agencies, Hospice,and Private Practice. My youngest
daughter is attending an MSW Program out of state. Our combined
years of practice in the Bay exceed 60 years. We both have felt
rewarded and honored to participate in the lives of others as
therapists.
Your knack for empathizing and desire to work one on one is a
good match with the profession. Most of my hours practicing do
not include "giving practical advice" but does include giving out
info. Work can be quite stressful due in part to the settings.
However, the work is often with flexible schedules. I encourage
you to try a volunteer experience to further explore the fit.
I recommend Family Paths, Hotline Volunteer. Good training too.
We agree with our daughter's decision to get an MSW because
it is more portable and flexible than the MFT. Employment
opportunities exist for the MSW (LCSW is the license) that do not
exist for the MFT. LCSW is qualified for all MFT positions.
Cheaper than a PhD that probably costs 150,000 by now and
takes many more years. Getting into MSW programs are tough, apply
to all in the area. I will discuss this more with you if you wish
I do not know of online or books to read about this. Your
interest in CBT is good. CBT is the best practice and evidence
based treatment for many things. License will not dictate what
you learn in the long run. Yes part time work and training is
possible.
Range of income in Bay at the Masters Level is 40 to 80 K
FTE my best guess
I will talk more with you about the upside and down side. But, we
have never gotten bored or lost excitement in our work.
Jim
Sept 2004
Can anyone give some advice about getting a Masters in
Counseling in the Bay area, and/or input about what it's like
to be a counselor? I am interested in all kinds of counseling,
guidance, marriage and family, genetics etc. Is it hard to get
a job once you get out of school?
career change
The UC Berkeley Extension is offering a course this fall called
''Counseling and Psychotherapy as a Career Option.'' I'm planning
on taking the one offered in November. It seems like this class
should answer the questions you are asking.
Good luck to you!
anon
I have a Masters in Counseling and am working as an intern in a
non-profit organizaton in San Leandro. I received my degree
form USF, which I thought had a good program. I would recomend
you looking into a social work degree (MSW). This is especially
helpful if you ever plan to move out of state as this degree is
more recognized in other states. Also, with an MSW, and if you
plan to become licensed, you can do all things, including
therapy, with the degree. Good luck.
anonymous
The MFT track is a long and not so well paying journey, but
also a calling and work you might enjoy well if you are drawn
to it. MSW training differs from MFT, in general I'd say MFT
emphasizes more therapy, family counseling whereas MSW more on
social agencies- casework, case management, though this is in
general and there are areas of overlap. MSW is slightly more
well regarded in the overall medical community and may be more
highly paid if you are not in private practice (was the case a
few years ago.) I had a great experience at JFK and loved the
program; however the post-master's internship hours (often very
low pay, stipend only, or unpaid,) required for licensing have
been very daunting for me and after a 2 year break from it to
raise my little ones, I now find I cannot afford to go back as
a (post-grad.) intern because I will get paid less than the
cost of childcare and have no time to complete my notes. It is
not always this way, but the Bay area is flooded with
therapists and so abyssmally low pay, especially for interns is
the norm. Friends in the PsyD track said they could obtain
their PsyD (don't need a separate master's first) in the same
time someone could start an MFT program and become licensed. I
believe this is true, you may want to look at PsyD options as
well. It is a newer type of degree but well-regarded thus far,
more therapy than a PHD or MD, more psych. testing than an MFT,
is my take on it. JFK may offer info on counseling careers and
help deciding on which track to pursue. I believe they may
offer educational counseling degrees as well, and St. Mary's
College in Moraga definitely does. I would say JFK and CIIS
(San Francisco) are the most process-oriented of the counseling
programs that I know of.
anon
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