Berkeley Parents Network: Medical School Post-Kids?

Berkeley Parents Network

Medical School Post-Kids?

Berkeley Parents Network > Advice > Working & Careers > Medical School Post-Kids?

June 2005

Hi--I have had a realization that I regret not completing my medical school prerequisites and attending medical school after college. At the time it seemed incredibly overwhelming, and that it would be so many years out until I would be a doctor. Now I realize that it's been that many years out anyway--I'm 29 now with a toddler and a full time job with a software company-- and I really don't want to wait another 10 years and think the same thing all over again. I had experience with a loved one's illness recently and it really made me think about the world I wanted to create for myself (and for others). It would take me approximately 7 years (I think) to complete the prereqs, tests, and medical school...And then comes residency. Does anyone have any experience as a ''non-traditional'' med student (or other similar major life/career change)? How did you swing the finances? The time management? The children? How do you feel about your decision? Thank you!
Someday a doctor?

i don't want to be a downer, but here is my experience in the medical profession: I was a paralegal for 10 years but always wanted to be in medicine. After 6 years of night school taking prereqs while working full time, my husband and I moved across the country to afford a Master's program in Physical Therapy (otherwise, it would have cost over $120,000 out here.) As it is, I owe around $40,000 in loans. We delayed kids, and after 5 years moved back here to restart a new career and family. Healthcare changed so much in the time that I was working on getting my license, and I now find that at least for therapists, it is a dismal landscape. I believe that Physicians are feeling the crunch as well, as administrators start crunching numbers and looking at productivity and billables and how much money you are making for them. Plus, the cost of malpractice insurance, especially for some specialties, has skyrocketed and really eats into your income. I work part time, but I basically hate it. The insurers drive so much of what you can do with your patients, and the profit margins seem so narrow, especially if you are dealing with any kind of geriatric population or Medical patients. Don't get me wrong, I love the patients and the families and the best part of my day is when I can make somethig easier for them or help them to be that much closer to going home. But the documentation now is unbelievable, and the rules and regs mean that I spend alot of my time doing the paperwork and compliance crapola while my PT Assistant does most of the hands-on treatment. A good thing is that I have all of the work I could ever want, there are not enough PTs, but I don't want the work in the first place, so there you are. I work with many physicians, and I cannot speak for them, but it seems that they have even more grueling paperwork and regulations to comply with as well as much more harsh hours plus the very fact that if they make one error someone could be harmed irreparably - that is so much responsibility to live with! On the other hand, there is such a rush of power and pleasure when you do something as remarkable as saving someone's life, but it does come with heavy responsibility. My 2 1/2 year program was incredibly grueling with many all-nighters. all-weekenders, and 10 hour sessions spent dissecting cadavers into the wee hours of the morning. Not to mention the fact that when you do your internships, or rotations, you could be sent anywhere, maybe hundreds of miles from home for extended periods of time. All this for no money, while you pay out tons to the school, and spend every waking minute studying, memorizing, and physically practicing skills that you have to be in the school to work on with other students. Again, don't let me rain on your parade, as I did not even go to Med school, just got my Master's degree in PT at a 150-year old medical school. But before you even think of taking the MCAT, find a Physician or P.A. who will let you shadow them for a few days, to get a better feel for what it is like. For me, it was hard enough to even have time for my husband while in school, let alone a toddler. Most of my classmates were single and did lots of partying to de-stress, and there were divorces among the married students. I really admire you for wanting to make a difference in the world, and whatever you decide to do with your future, you have an amazing opportunity right in front of you to raise a healthy, well-adjusted child who will go out and do good things in the world. Like my job but wouldn't do it again

I was a ''traditional'' medical student many years ago and am now in a somewhat ''nontraditonal'' medical career (public health). I have known several ''nontraditional'' students. There were students with children while I was in medical school, as well as others who had children while in residency. I don't know how they did it, but they seemed happy and able to manage as well as us single childless ones (perhaps better). Our previous neighbor here in the East Bay entered medical school at UCSF when her son was a teenager, after a completely different career. I don't know how she did it, as her husband did not have a steady job. Most likely it was a combination of scholarships and loans. She is now a practicing doc for the underserved in another state and was very happy with her decision. One option for you is to look into a public health service committment in return for financial assistance. If this is something you've always wanted to do, go for it. You will manage somehow and be a great role model for your children. Many schools recognize that ''nontraditional'' students bring a lot of experience into their careers. It sounds like you will be going into it with your eyes open regarding the financial and other kinds of juggling you will have to perform. happy to be a doc

Have you considered a Nurse Practitioner route? I am 2/3 of the way through a program at UCSF set up for people going through career changes and moving into advanced practice nursing (nurse practitioner/nurse midwife/clinical nurse specialist.) It is 3 years in total - one year to get the RN license (assuming you have a BA in another field) and an additional 2 years for masters level advanced practice training. I think SF State has a similar program.

NP does not confer as much authority as MD, but certainly allows one to do some wonderful work in a wide variety of clinical settings. In many settings NPs work pretty autonomously, have presribing privileges, etc. It is a great path, in my opinion, and one that really emphasizes caring for the whole patient. Plus, when I watch the residents I'm training with slog through their 80-hr weeks for 4 years- well I know that some do it with kids, but it looks awfully hard to me.

As to being in an intense academic program and parenting - there is no question that it is tough. Most people in my program are not parents -- and think those who are are nuts to be doing it. The most important thing for me has been having a supportive partner who can pick up the slack when I have to study. It's not the hours away that are especially tough on me (certainly less than a full time job), it's having to study so much (and write papers, etc) at home. I've become a much more disciplined student than I ever was before; every naptime and bedtime I just have to head straight for my books.

But is it worth it? So far, yes. For me, I know that loving what i do makes a big difference in how I parent. In the big picture I am very very happy with my decision - it's just the day to day that can be tough sometimes. But a big additional plus to the nursing field is that as a female-dominated field it's a lot more family friendly than medicine. So it's reasonable to think you could have a great career and do it less than full time (or odd hours) so that you can be home with your kids more.

I'd be happy to tell you more if your interested. You can email me directly. Kathleen

Medical school is totally doable with children, I have many classmates who have done it and I am actually in the middle of my training with a baby. It is actually easier if you've already had a kid before starting the process than if you decide to do it during training. The key is having good support/childcare and an understanding spouse. If you have any questions feel free to email me. Geetha

I am the spouse of a just-starting-residency doctor. We have been together since before the idea of med school emerged (he was 27). He, like you, spent 7 years doing pre-reqs plus med school, and just started a 3 year residency program yesterday (and this is on the short side of the spectrum - so 10 years total). We had 2 kids during med school, now 2.9 and 7 mos. We moved to one part of the country for med school, and just moved to another part for residency, and will likely move again for his job in 3 years. I have several friends in various stages on the same path.

He (and some of the friends mentioned above) were warned by doctors BEFORE med school that this better be the ONLY thing they can imagine doing - if not, they should do something else. We thought this rather dire, but 7+ years later, I would say the same thing to you. It is a very grueling road - long and unforgiving. I just missed my oldest friends' wedding because I could not do the traveling with the kids on my own and he could not get two days off. He was not around for the bulk of our daughters' first year, and we will see him very little this coming year. A very dear friend, one of the most socially conscious intelligent driven women I know has had the worst year of her life as a first year resident. She cares very little about taking care of others' needs anymore and seeks only to survive the next two years. Another piece of advice we heard is not to go into medicine because you love people, but becuase you love medicine/science. The people we know with this primary interest have enjoyed the process much more than the bleeding hearts (which is not to say that the science lovers do not also have great compassion and social concern!). All this said, my husband is one who could not imagine doing anything else and has loved it all so far, despite the sacrifices. He is one of those who primarily loves solving medical problems, but is also loved by his patients (lots of love all around :) He will MISS his kids over the next 3 years, and has missed having any outside life (including exercise) because of doing both kids and medicine at the same time (something else we heard; you have time for ONE other thing; reading, exercise, family...) But again, he could not and still can not imagine doing anything else - this is key. It is very hard to be the spouse/partner of a med. person in training; I am without him A LOT (he worked as many as 110 hours/week in med school), and take care of everything (kids, house) and miss out on many things I want to do because I have no support (if you move for med school and/or residency it takes time to find a support network, and you may be far from family, as we are). If you would like to talk to him, email us. Good luck with the decision.

My wife wishes that she hadn't gone to med school. She was in medical residency when our first child was born. I was working full time and she had to do 70 hour weeks. She passed all her boards and certifiations - what a struggle! She was boarded in surgical and clinical pathology ... which is said to be good for a parent, since your hours can be closer to normal. Hardly!

After almost three years of farming our daughter to nurseries and daycare, we slowly realized that our daughter hardly knew us. We had too little time with our daughter, and were exhausted when we were home. Our kids (two of them by now) spent more time away from us than with us. We were missing the best part of being parents. We met several physicians whose kids were nannied full time, and were turning out troubled.

The money? Went straight to the med school loans and childcare.

We looked at each other one night and decided to call it quits. My wife quit her high-stress, high pay job. I backed down to half-time. With a great effort, we paid off the loans (ask a medical student about the loansharks that circle medical schools!).

We haven't looked back.

My wife still has her medical license and keeps up with her CME's, but she says she'll never work in a hospital again. Indeed, she points out that it would be malpractice for her to work since she hasn't done medicine in seven years.

Seven years? Yep -- it's been that long since she walked away from doctoring. What a difference in our lives: Low income, but low stress and we *know* our kids. We have plenty of time together. Heck, we cook our breakfasts together most mornings! Our days aren't tightly scheduled. Sure, we have our problems, but we've never missed a class play or picnic.

As an aside, my wife went out of her way to *not* get a license to prescribe heavy-duty drugs -- friends would hit her up for prescriptions. Then, too, she won't diagnose medical problems within our family. She's told me repeatedly, ''The doctor who diagnoses herself has a fool as a patient.'' And being a physician doesn't help much when you need medical care --last month we went to Alta Bates emergency room and had the same dreadful experience that everyone else has. Berkeley Dad

I didn't see your original post, but had to respond to the topic. I had a baby in 4th year of medical school, and am now just starting my second year of residency in psychiatry. I had one classmate who began medical school with a small baby, and several others who had babies at various times during school. It is certainly do-able -- it requires a flexible and supportive spouse, good childcare, and a creative approach...much like any other time intensive job. Medical schools are increasingly interested in ''nontraditional students'' (I was out of school for 7 yrs prior to med school). I have loved my medical training, love the work, and feel so fortunate to be able to combine parenting with work that feels really meaningful -- it is terribly hard to leave a baby to go to work, but so much easier when the work itself feels really compelling. Please feel free to email with questions, I love to talk about this topic. -- Emily

I've been slow to respond but after reading the depressing posts in the 6/29 newsletter I have to answer! I started medical school at 27 and am now finishing my first year of residency at 33 with a two year old. What you're proposing is not easy but is definitely do-able. The pre-reqs and first two years of medical school are classes, so finding time to study would probably be your challenge -- but as you can study any time, you can work that around whatever schedules you need to. You didn't say that you're a single parent, so I'll assume you have a partner (obviously it's much harder if you don't). From third year of medical school onwards, you basically have a job with very long hours and no to low pay. Not the greatest but there's plenty of people out there who do it. Unlike many who have to deal with that situation, we have the reassurance that someday we can work however many hours we want and have relatively high pay.

I didn't have my daughter until after medical school, so I can't comment on that part. But I just finished intern year (generally regarded to be the hardest year of medical training) and I've certainly survived. I don't feel at all like I've missed out on a year of her life. My entire life is working or being with my family -- no exercise, no social life to speak of -- but I can deal with this for a few years. Yes, I'm tired and sometimes I feel totally tapped out, but I still usually enjoy what I do. And don't forget, I'm talking about intern year -- your prereqs and first 2 years of medical school are classes and studying, fourth year of medical school is less demanding, and so you're looking at your 3rd year of medical school and residency being like what I just described.

Your partner needs to be completely on board with the plan or you're headed for trouble, because it will be very demanding on him/her. During some rotations in medical school and most of your residency you spend every 4th night away from home. My husband and daughter often come to visit me in the hospital those nights. It's very helpful to have extended family support. Probably all your choices around where to go to medical school and do residency will revolve around making it work for your family.

Obviously, it's an enormous investment. But if the payoff weren't greater, I wouldn't be doing it. It's just plain amazing work. You have a place of incredible privilege in so many people's lives, and every once in a while you get the tremendous satisfaction of really having an impact on someone. (I disagree with the person who said the ''bleeding hearts'' don't enjoy it as much as the scientists.) On a practical level, it's flexible work that you can do part-time or full-time, and it pays pretty darn well -- maybe not like a top lawyer or businessperson, but far better than most professions. There aren't very many careers that allow you to make a livable salary in this area doing part-time work that you're passionate about, but this is one of them.

Feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk more. Kate

The opinions and statements expressed on this website are those of parents who subscribe to the Berkeley Parents Network. Please see Disclaimer & Usage for information about using content on this website.