Discipline for 13-month-old in daycare

My 13-month old daughter starts in day-care next month. Overall we were happy with the day-care when we saw the place and met the staff. However, I have a concern about the way they discipline the children. They explained that if a child does something that he or she is not allowed to three times, she has to stand on a ''time-out'' cirkel for 2-3 minutes. This would be in front of the other children. I think small children are not going to learn anything from this and that it is a humiliation of the child. Any experience or thoughts on time- outs/discipline in day-care? Do you think that time-outs are appropriate for older children in a day-care? Concerned Mom

Discipline for a 16-month-old

Our 16 month is displaying the normal behavior of testing his limits and need some advice about the best way to handle it. We have baby-proofed our house to an extent that he is given a lot of freedom, but there are about 3 things that he is not allowed to do (for safety reasons). We have both been consistent about never allowing him to do those things, but he continues to push. We generally just try to redirect his attention but he is so, so determined that is doesn't work. My understanding is that time-outs are not appropriate for someone before two, because they don't understand the punishment as a consequence of their behavior, so I wonder if there is another alternative for this age. Note: we do not believe in spanking or yelling. Any suggestions? anon

Spanking and yelling are pretty much for your benefit anyway, so you are safe in avoiding them. -anon

I am certainly no expert, but I use time outs with my son, and I do see a difference in his behavior. I started the time outs for me, really, just to collect myself when he would get under my skin. I take him away from the temptation and place him in his crib. I had heard ''a minute per year of age,'' so we started at one minute....That's about all it takes. After a minute, he is calm, usually cuddly, and leaves whatever it is alone--for a little while, at least. I'm not sure if it is the best method, but when we both need a break, it seems to work for us.

Just keep consistent and (I have to believe) they will get it eventually. keeping the faith

As for continuous testing, just assume he will find something else to test you with. Sounds like this is their full-time job at this age. Jenny

He loved pulling my books off the bookshelf. At first I'd move him and say, ''No, no, that's a mama book, here's a Renzie book'', and hand him a board book. But he started going right back to do it again. When I found myself getting angry (just a teeny), I thought - you can't get angry at a baby, and I decided to put him in time out (1 minute, crib as restraint, no isolation factor). My sister-in-law said it wouldn't work, since he was so young. It did. He didn't seem to mind the time-out, but he did stop pulling out books. I never got angry about it, he was never sad or mad, and he learned to stop doing it.

It wasn't until he was much older that he started to be unhappy about time-outs. sue

First we(parents and caregiver) got very clear on what he can do and what he can not. The first tier are things that are never ok, ever. (Climbing up on the hearth, touching/pulling plants, etc.) The second was things that are ok sometimes - meaning it is ok to throw the ball but not ok to throw books. We handled these ones differently.

For the serious offences - At the FIRST instant he touched a plant or threw his leg up on the hearth.. ''NO TOUCH'' - in a clear & serious, but not angry tone. Immediately remove him, face him towards an empty wall, not saying anything, holding him firmly for about 20seconds. Even as he starts to move, hold him firmer. Release him, then walk away and ignore him for about 20-30 more seconds. The first few times you do this he will go right back to do the thing, just repeat, don't get exasperated, he just wants to make sure that you will do it again. I would usually go into another room while ignoring him and start to play with something that he could hear. Then he would end up finding me, and was easily distracted and not caught into a loop. This totally works - he quickly understood "No Touch" or "Not for you" away from home too.

For the other situation - it seems a lot of books say treat it all the same way, but we found that ineffective - he was not learning anything. So we started to say "no, no. You can put the book down nicely" and then I'd show him, then have him do it. Sometimes if a ball was nearby I'd say "Here, you can throw the ball. Not the book." This totally worked great for other things too. He started swatting - not quite hitting, but not quite nice. So I started saying - "You can touch nicely" and then pat and pet the object. And he quickly got out of the habit. Good luck! Be consistent and calm. anon

Some people say that time-outs worked for their one-year-olds - so I suppose the right time to introduce this depends upon each individual child. For most kids, however, one is considered too young.

But what I really wanted to address that no one else did was the perception that time-outs are supposed to be a kind of punishment. They are NOT supposed to be used this way! Time-outs are meant to be used with kids who are acting out in response to a situation, in an out-of control way. Time outs were intended to HELP the child get some space away from a difficult situation or feelings and learn how to calm themselves by taking some time away from whatever is stimulating them. Time outs are intended as a tool that a child can learn to use to calm down and get centered. When, as adults, we go for a walk or go in a room alone to ''cool off'' from a heated argument or other situation, we are giving ourselves a time-out. With children, they don't know how to do this themselves, so we are supposed to be guiding and teaching them how to do it by giving them time-outs. Punishment doesn't work

Disciplining a toddler while traveling

First of all, thank you for all of your responses to my "Discipline 101" question. I read them, my husband read them and we culled what worked for us and made a great list.

I wanted to ask a follow up. Our situation is that we are abroad in Asia for 6 months with a teeny/crappy kitchen. We also are traveling around a fair amount with our 19 month old. While we can definitely cook more at home (point very well taken), the most difficult part of changing things in terms of throwing or not providing snacks all day is when we are on the go. If we take a train somewhere to eat dinner, our son will scream and whine to get out unless we give him a constant stream of snacks. If we are on a train for several hours and he throws something, there is no place to put him in a time out (and he usually doesn't care about a thing being taken away, he just gets in a throwing mood. It is a tantrum with throwing).

SO, if you wise, wise people could just help me a little bit more, we might be able to drastically improve things over here. So, (A) how do we discipline on the go and (B) how do we not give him constant snacks on the go. OR do we just accept that we have 5 more months here and he won't turn into a delinquent from a few weekends of extra snacks and tolerated throwing. THANK YOU anon

I would say no to ''tolerated throwing''. If he's throwing specifically because he's frustrated, just be sure to keep throwables out of reach and keep saying ''no throwing''. And endless snacks... it soon becomes a habit and an expected way of soothing... too much ''food as comforter'' makes me... uncomfortable. But absolutely still carry them - a few raisins or crackers can go a long way in soothing a cranky growing child.

I think the key thing is to figure out other ways to DISTRACT and ENTERTAIN. If you see the tantrum coming, pull out a toy. Put together a kit of easy to carry things that are for travelling only. Don't use all at once, but rotate them - that way he has ''new'' toys to look forward to on every journey. Small picture books that you don't necessarily have to read but just point out pictures ''Hey, I see a red dog... do you see the red dog? Where is the red dog?''

Small toys - not small enough to put in his mouth, but sturdy little cars ''Let's have a race!'' Action figures/dolls/people/animal toys - They also have the benefit that they can ''talk'' to him when he's tired of mommy and daddy always telling him ''no'' and ''stop''. And even the snacks - you can ''stretch out'' their use by lining crackers up, counting them, ''guess which hand'', playing ''here comes the raisin train...All aboard! Non-stop to the Tunnel of No Return!''

If his fine motor skills are developing, a few crayons and a small notepad. Post-it notes are endless fun even if he doesn't draw - he can safely stick them anywhere.

My kids are 8 and 5, but I still stock up on ''travel toys'' at thrift stores, garage sales and the like. Hide them away until the next time we have a long journey and they've had enough of the scenery... Have fun! Mom of Two

Honestly, when I have been forced to break my own rules (I have a two and four year old and have traveled and eaten out extensively with them since birth), I go for convenience over desire. For instance, there is a restaurant near my home that makes the most fabulous tacos that take about 15-minutes to get to the table. They also make cheese pizza that takes about two minutes to get to the table. When I go their with the girls, I order cheese pizza. When I go with my newspaper and/or my husband, I order the tacos. When I am on an airplane for five hours with the girls (almost always traveling without my husband), I give them anything to keep them happy. Granted, I am playing defense, which is a little harder than outmanning the little creatures. Also, I think kids can sense when you are desperate.

I didn't respond to your first post, but don't stress too much about discipline. Try to work on structure (even if it means spending too much time in your crappy kitchen) at this point -- the same thing at the same time every day, within reason of course. jan

After reading your follow-up post, I have the impression that you and your husband are determined to plow through your usual routines without taking your child's needs into consideration, and are expecting him to comply to fit your set plans. Raising a toddler means sometimes seriously limiting or bringing your plans to a grinding halt, reprioritizing your short-term goals, and lowering your expectations in terms of what you think a 19- month old is capable of handling before melting down. What do they say in AA? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

You don't say why your family is traveling in Asia for the next six months--Work assignment? Leisure travel? Extended family emergency? Whatever the reason, it might help to observe and/or talk with the locals and see how they handle living in apartments with ''teeny/crappy kitchens'' and traveling long distances with a toddler. But I think you and your husband have unrealistic expectations of what can be accomplished with a toddler in tow.

I recommend that you read ''The Epidemic'' by Robert Shaw, MD. It's available online at amazon.com and elsewhere. A Parent

every child is different, so i wouldn't say stop traveling untill your kid is old enough. my now, 4 y.o daughter has been traveling overseas since she was 10 months- she averages an international trip a year. now we also have a 7 month old and we're all headed off to asia again. i honnestly feel that you don't have to stop traveling, but change your style of traveling.

i'm almost giggling because you seem to be more worried about the 5 hr train ride than the 12+ hr plane ride to get to asia. if you can manage the plane ride- no worries. feel free to contact me should you need any advice or comfort. gl

Toddler Discipline 101: what should I let go?

Much like the poster from last week's advice, I am having a hard time figuring out what is important and what is not for my 19 month old. He is very smart, very funny, and a little bandit who tries to get away with a lot. Can some of you more discipline-minded parents whose children are ''spirited'' give me some good guidelines for discipline?

1. Is it worth making him sit before we give him food b/c if we do, we will spend a lot of time having tantrums and doing a tug of war. We eat out almost every night, so we end up chasing him around the restaurants. This seems like what 19 month olds do and that we can't make him sit if he doesn't want to sit.

2. How is he supposed to know the difference between toys that you can throw (balls) and toys you shouldn't throw (giant truck). How do we handle throwing?

3. He wants snacks all day long when we are with him in our teeny apartment. but when he is at daycare, he only gets snacks at certain times and seems fine with that. Here, he just stands at the refrigerator and screams ''YOGURT!'' or ''PRETZELS'' and has a tantrum if we don't give it to him.

Terrified that if we don't discipline him properly he will end up in prison (not really) and out of control. We just don't know what is worth pushing and what is not. Any guidelines? clueless mommy

For example, I don't allow jumping or climbing on the living room furniture - the kids can do whatever they want in their bedrooms, where they throw all the blankets and pillows on the floor and jump off their beds with delight. But this is a rule that's important to me, not one I think everyone's children need to follow. So step one is decide what you do care about.

It does strike me that throwing toys that can hurt someone is about safety and courtesy, and courtesy for the family if they might break the lamp. When and how kids eat is a matter of what the parents think the standard should be, although kids should learn that when they are at someone else's house, they eat when and what is offered, and that it is rude to demand something else. We have set snack times at our house - and all snacks are at the table, no one walks around with food -- because I can't stand constant grazing and wanted to nip that in the bud. I do personally feel that kids in restaurants should be reasonably behaved appropriate to the venue - what's good behavior at Fat Apples is different than Chez Panisse. But no matter where you are, it's unfair to the other patrons if kids are really disruptive.

Step two is to recognize what's reasonable to expect, which you are doing. The answer is a bit about age, but a bit about your kid. And about you. If you consistently set limits and enforce them, you will probably get better behavior, but it may take two or three weeks of being the ''bad guy.'' I say ''probably'' because some kids really are almost impossible at that age. But if you don't try, you won't know what your kid is capable of. And you have to be willing to let them scream and tantrum. Yeah, it hurts. But your kid won't die if they don't get yogurt right that minute. And after a week of more scheduled snacks it should get better.

I also think you are setting yourself up for failure here. Why are you eating out every night? How about at least getting takeout or frozen dinners if you don't want to cook, so you can practice sitting at a table and eating in your own house? That will make it easier to get better behavior at a restaurant. But at that age, maybe ten minutes of sitting at a table is all you can expect. If my kids are getting figety, I leave the table and take them outside to run on the sidewalk. Or we go to the Ikea cafeteria or another place with a play area. I don't just let them run around the restaurant and bother other people, though. We also keep crayons and paper in the diaper bag at all times for restaurant trips.

No throwing trucks? How about no throwing toys in the house, period? It might be hard to explain what toys are OK to throw, and which ones aren't. We don't allow throwing even balls in the house. That's for the backyard and the park. Simple rules are easiest to enforce. Whatever gets thrown gets a ''time out'' on a high shelf.

Is our house a model of perfect order? Of course not. And actually I would hate it that way. But I am glad we can all sit down at the table together and actually have a semblance of a meal, most of the time.

Good luck - you'll need it. Hard-a#@ Mom but OK with it

1. re: eating out. No, it is not reasonable to expect a 19 month old to sit and wait for dinner in a restaurant. Some will and some won't, but expecting this EVERY NIGHT is not reasonable. What about take-out or ordering in? Small kids need quiet and consistency, especially after a hectic day at day care. I think eating out every night is really too much.

2. Just tell him no throwing except for balls. They can understand that. (and don't worry about exceptions like frisbees--he'll figure it out)

3. I think if he wants a snack, and it is healthy, then he should have it. He is growing so much right now, there is no point in limiting snacks--just make sure they are real food--make them available on a low table if you have one.

There will be plenty of unreasonable fits coming in the future, but I think he is behaving very reasonably for his age. It is not spoiling him if you meet his needs for food and quiet time in the evenings.

For throwing, our rule is no throwing any toys inside. Balls can be thrown outside but not at people and we just have to keep saying it over and over.

Snacks and meals work waaaaaay better when scheduled. If you make the clock the boss, there is less you child can argue with (''I know you want yogurt now, but snack time isn't until 10:30. You can have yogurt when it's time.'').

The biggest thing I've learned from the books I mentioned is how to set limits while still acknowleging your child's feelings. It works if you keep at it and you and your kid will be better for it. been there and still learning

2. How do we handle throwing? Answer: You teach and tell him. When he throws things that are okay to throw, encourage him and play with him (You threw the ball! Good throw! Can you throw it in the pail?) When he throws things he shouldn't tell him, "No. Trucks are not for throwing. Let's push the truck on the ground." If he continues to throw warn him: "No. We do not throw trucks. If you throw the truck again, we have to put it away for now." (AND DO IT!) It's very important to teach toddlers how to use things: "crayons are for paper, not the wall", stand or sit while brushing your teeth; we don't walk or run around while we brush our teeth. For every DON'T, give a DO (e.g. "Don't rip the book. You can turn the pages. You can read the book with Mommy.")

3. He wants snacks all day long Answer: This is a clear case of setting limits. Since he has no problems with scheduled snacks at daycare, he should have no problems at home. Set up a specific schedule for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks. For example, breakfast, morning snack, lunch, nap, afternoon snack, dinner, bath, bed. He will tantrum at first, but stick to the schedule and let him know when it is time for snack/lunch etc. If he screams and tantrums, walk away and ignore the screaming. When he is calm, offer a distraction/play/read a book.

Routine is very good for toddlers because then they know what to expect and this gives them a feeling of control and security. Set limits and boundaries; this also helps a toddler feel secure. Point out all the good things he does; give him praise, lots of attention and lots of playtime. Miss Evelyn

We had a pretty simple rule for our three boys - if you want to eat, you have to sit down. As soon as they got up, food went away. If they got up enough times, food went away until the next meal or snack. I know this is hard because we all worry about our children eating properly, but he will not starve. When he is hungry enough, he will sit down. Same rules apply at home, restaurant, grandma's house. I first told my children this, warned them once, and then just took the food away. Subsequent times, I would just remove the food and try very hard not to scold or lecture.

At 19 months, he will know the difference about what to throw and what not to if you explain it to him. We kept a basket of soft balls that were ok to throw in the house (with some limits - i.e. not around the stove). Nothing else was ok to throw. If it got thrown, it went away for awhile. If it got thrown again, it went away for a longer time (by toddler standards - several days.)

Schedule snack times. Put a paper clock with movable hands on the fridge and set it for the next snack time. You can start to teach him to tell time this way too. He does it with you because he knows you will give in! It is so important to think before you threaten and be willing to follow through with the threat if the behavior merits. Once you establish that you mean business, all aspects of discipline get easier. Good luck Anon

Eating and sitting still. You wrote: This seems like what 19 month olds do and that we can't make him sit if he doesn't want to sit. Yes and no. This is why people use high chairs and going out is usually not preferable. There will be crying and screaming, so that's why one helps one's child to learn correct behavior at home. If eating out almost every night is your thing... I pity the people who will have their dining out experience ruined by your child's completely understandable reaction to discipline. Sitting still is indeed what one does while eating, whether at home or in a restaurant. At home, sitting still for 5 min. can be long enough. In public - no. It sounds like you're just constantly setting all of you up for a miserable experience. Can't you do take out?

2) Believe me, 19 month olds can indeed tell the difference between a ball and truck. Throwing trucks is apparently getting a wilder, more exciting reaction than throwing a ball. Change the response. If a truck gets thrown, say ''Trucks are NOT for throwing. We're going to put this away right now if you're in a throwing mood.'' Bye bye truck.

3) Snacks - obviously he knows the rules at daycare. They don't give in to tantrums and yelling. But hey, mommy does! So follow the daycare rules. Let him have a tantrum. Do NOT GIVE IN. See above.

It will get harder, then easier, then harder, then easier... but stick with it, and yes, one day you too will have a child who sits (sort of) still, who knows how to keep his toys, and says ''May I please?'' Oh, yes... me too!

I would avoid contests, like trying to make him sit in a restaurant. Then you've created a test he cannot pass, and which gives the him the unjust label of disobedient.

If he throws something, put it away. If he tantrums, you support him as he moves through it. Alice

2. When he throws the truck, use the word no and hand him a ball. Constantly. Do not waiver, or think it's cute. No is not a bad word, and he will understand. He wont get the ball/truck connection right away, but stay on it. He will get it.

3. Again, he does it with you because he gets away with it. A snack in between meals is fine, but eating all day means he wont sit for the meal. Do you make him sit for the snack or allow him to graze while playing? I can't understand why people let their kids track food all throughout the house. It will only make life harder as they get older. Why retrain them at 4 when you can train them right the first time now? Discipline is not a bad word

Two GREAT books: Gentle Discipline and...''How to Get Your Kid to Eat, but not too Much''... both are available at Amazon.

I think kids that are under 2 years old are too young for time outs or asking them to ''sit'' in order to get food, etc... Don't say ''you need to sit and eat''. Just say, ''OK, lunch time!'' I am going to put you in your booster or high chair.

I would then simply put him in his high chair or booster chair for 15 minutes. Bring him some food. Offer a few healthy items and include something that you know he likes. (Including a fruit dessert or yogurt, etc...I always offer bread and milk along with a few other things because most kids will eat that.)

HERE is the important part:

Then sit with him and eat yourself or not. Do NOT make a big deal of any of it. Serve the food up very uncerimoniously. Don't insist that he eat any of it. You can't make a toddler eat!!!!!! Your job is to bring healthy, yummy food into the house and deliver it to him. His job is to eat it or NOT.

The more you insist, the more he will fight you. That is his job as a toddler ;)!!!!! To test boundaries and limits.

He may not like the high chair or booster and may not eat in it the first couple of times. That is ok. Your consistency, gentleness and NOT making a big deal about eating but making it positive is KEY, KEY, KEY!

Offer him foods at meal times and maybe two snack times. He should not have milk or snacks in between that or he will be snacking all day.

If he whines for food, tell him he can have it at snack time or lunch time and MOVE ON! Give him a choice between two activities and redirect him and get him playing.

This is only going to get worse if you give into him.

Having family meals at least once a day really helps. Don't force him to eat. Just offer the food and sit together.

Don't bring him other food if he won't eat what is there. No short order cooking! Always incude something you know he likes but don't bring him a bunch of new stuff if he won't eat what you are offering, otherwise he is in charge and you will be doing this at every meal for the next 5 years!!!

DON'T get into battles with him at this age. Redirect him, give him choices, be firm, don't waiver, move on. Say yes when you can but don't get into back and forth battles. You are only fueling the toddler fire!

As for throwing things, just say: ''We don't throw big things. Would you like to throw this soft bean bag toy or small stuffed animal into the laundry basket??'' Tell him that the large item is not ok and give him another choice. The Gentle Discipline book has other suggestions.

Feel free to email me if you need support. Mimi

1. Sitting during meals. You might want to try this at home before the restaurant or once you've established some discipline elsewhere in his life. Tell him ''today we are going to eat sitting down''. Tell him that it is time for dinner and he needs to sit down. Lift him up and put him in the chair. Sit down and start eating. Ignore tantrums. If he asks for food tell him ''we are going to eat sitting down''. Once he's sitting down tell him ''You're sitting down, now you can eat!'' Give praise.

2. Throwing. This is an easier one. If he throws a truck say ''balls are for throwing outside, trucks stay on the ground''. Give him a ball to throw, or take him outside to throw a ball or roll his truck with him. If he keeps throwing pick up what he throws and put it away so he can't play with it. Ignore tantrums.

3. Wants snacks all the time. This is an easy one too. Just ignore his yelling. When he stands in front of the fridge yelling tell him ''I'm sorry it isn't time for a snack now. You're going to have a snack when we get back from the park (or whenever definite time he'll be able to understand not a time like 3:00).'' Ignore tantrums. Give him snack when you said you would and say ''we just got back from the park NOW it is time for your snack''

He's not going to end up in jail but your whole family including your son will be a lot happier if he feels like there's an adult in charge of his world keeping him safe and setting some limits. He's not old enough to be in charge of a family or his life yet. best wishes

Discipline at 13 months

I am totally and utterly confused about discipline. I truly believe (and have read everywhere) that children who have structure, know what is ok and not ok, and know who is the parent and who is the child are the happiest. I know that when my child sticks his tongue in the outlet that I should say no. I know that when he throws his toys or food I say no. But other than that, I have no clue. I am not sure what to let him know is not acceptable and what I am supposed to ignore.

He often chews on food and then spits it out or drops it directly on the floor. He has started to have some minor tantrums when we stop doing something he likes. He hates getting his diaper changed. All totally normal stuff, I know. It is just how to handle it that mystifies me. Any book suggestions or theories would be very helpful as I do want lots of structure and discipline in the house. Thank you! jenny

I can recommend two books. One called Becoming the Parent you Want to Be. by Davis and Keyser. Also, Natural Childhood. by many, but one main author is John Thompson. Good luck! Jenny

If you want some insight in to this age, along with some tips and tricks on how to deal, I highly, higly recommend ''Your One Year Old'' and all the subsequent books: ''Your Two Year-Old, Three-Year Old, etc... If I'd had that book with my first it would have saved my sanity. One caveat: they were written in the 70s, so the language is a little out of date, but the developmental research in the book holds firm in the present. Good luck!

There is a series of books by Louise Ames that I found helpful in understanding my children's development. Each concentrates on a year of a child's life. It helped be grasp my child's view of the world, normal behaviors/phases and why they were happening, etc. Actually, if you read these books, you will find that all of the behaviors that your child is exibiting are normal and why he is doing them (tantrums...he doesn't have enough vocabulary to communicate his needs/feelings, etc) They were written in the '80s, so some of the wording may seem out of date, but the concepts still remain true.

Choosing what is acceptable to your family and what is not is really up to you. With my younger child (21 months), our limits are pretty much based on safety. I don't care if she is banging her spoon on her plate. I care if she is standing on her booster seat. With my older child (3 1/2), the expectations are greater.

I also try to keep in mind that discipline is about teaching. I try my best to keep it positive. 'No' is a very effective word when used infrequently (just as rasing your voice can be used very effectively if not done all of the time). For instance, when my child is running at the pool, I will ask her to 'walk slower' rather than tell her 'don't run.' If as we are leaving the pool, my child is running toward the parking lot, I will yell 'STOP.' Because 'no' and 'yelling' are not part of my constant repitoire, I find that when they are used they are obeyed.

The actual type of discipline that you use is really up to your child. I don't mean that you give him a choice, but rather try different techniques to see what works. Redirection worked with my older child very well until she was about two. Now I use both 'think about it time (same as a timeout, but my daughter must 'own' what it is she is doing wrong, i.e., I am going to time out because I took my younger sister's toy and then taunted her with it)' and redirection. With my younger daughter, I've found redirection to be pretty much useless (she is a lot more headstrong). Time-outs (she is too young to really think about it, but I do make sure that I tell her what behavior has gotten her into time-out) and modeling 'good' behavior has worked wonders.

Hope this helps -still there

Too pregnant to chase down strong-willed toddler

I just read the responses to a post for advice about a 17 month old who runs into the street etc. My ultra active, strong-willed daughter hated her stroller at a very early age as well, so I'm very familiar w/this problem. And we thought we had it handled... Now that I am 7 months pregnant with my second, the issue has resurfaced. I would like to know what pregnant moms have done with toddlers who run away because they know mommy can't catch them or pick them up. This happens on the way to the car at the park, on the way to the car at day care, etc. where I have very little recourse in terms of immediate consequence. My daughter is FAST. She's old enough not to go into the street (thank God) although she runs along residential sidewalks where cars can easily come out of driveways and it's very dangerous. If I take her by the hand, she goes limp and I can't drag her even when I want to. Reasoning with her is not working. Of course I realize this may have a lot to do w/ the fact that she's also very aware that a baby is coming and has taken acting out to a whole new level.

I was hoping for some sage disciplinary advice before I go to the last resort--the dreaded leash. I actually broke down and cried on the the street today after she sprinted off downhill toward an intersection at 5:30 pm. I was scared to death. getting desparate

Too soon to start disciplining 17-month-old?

Hi fellow friends and neighbors! Happy Holidays to you all. I have a question that I need some advice from you experienced parents about as far as disciplining my child. I hope you can help me either with your thoughts, suggestions or just support. I have a 16 almost 17-month-old daughter. She is a good kid. Very sweet and well behaved (at least I think so as far as what I noticed in comparison to other kids her age that we know)- by the way, I hate comparisons because I do know that NO two children are alike yet I am just trying to make a vague point. My concern and question to you all is this; what age is it appropriate to start to really discipline a child. NO, I don't mean spanking or anything like that what so ever! I mean "time-outs" or whatever works. I want my daughter to be as well behaved as possible. I know not to expect perfection and I do not yet I also don't want to raise a whiny, spoiled child that kids may not want to play with. I just need to know what some of you think as far as what you did, read, etc. etc. that worked relatively well and successful for you!? Hope you can help me out with this Thanks in advance. Sincerely, A first time Mom that wants to raise a happy, healthy and nice child overall

At around 18 months, I would pick one behavior that I wanted to change (usually something physical -- the inevitable biting or hitting that crops up occasionally). Then I would do two things: 1) Say ''no hitting'' (or whatever) in a very calm tone, and 2) pick a very low-key consequence for it (e.g. hitting mommy resulted in mommy putting him down and leaving the room for 30 sec or so). We didn't use time-outs for a very long time. At 2 and 2.5, he was taken to the couch for a bit of time to ''calm down'' if need be (he didn't see this as a bad thing; we would give him his blanket and his pacifier and allow him to sit, untimed, until he felt better). At that age, almost all of his tantrums were due to being hungry, anyway, so we learned to avoid them by giving him a snack when he seemed cranky, and keeping to a rigid lunchtime and dinnertime schedule.

We didn't begin formal ''time-outs'' (with the label, the timer, and the notion of punishment) until our little scientist started testing, around the time he was 3. Very formally, very systematically doing precisely what we had just told him not to while looking us straight in the eye. Clearly wanting to see what would happen. If there is a logical consequence we use that (e.g. hitting something with his toy hammer when we've just asked him not to results in our putting the hammer away for a while); if there's no obvious consequence, he gets a time-out. Again, very calm, and regardless of his pleading, negotiating, and crying. Actually, it's amazing how suddenly the crying switches off when he figures out it's not doing any good...

All in all, it seems to be working. His preschool teachers really like him, as do our babysitters. Karen

What we've done since she was small is set clear and logical limits (mostly vis a vis things that would hurt her) and enforce them by saying ''no'', physically restraining her if that didn't work or taking the object away if appropriate. For example, she tries to climb into the sofa table, I'll say ''no''. The first couple of times she'll try to test this limit and do it anyway - so I go and stop her from doing it. After that, if she slips, I just need to remind her by saying ''no'' again. The key is to start with few, essential limits and go on from there.

IMHO, our daughter is extremely well behaved for a child her age - but it's important to understand what a child that age can and cannot do. Self-control, for example, doesn't come until later, so you need to be ready to control them and not get mad when they don't do it themselves. Explaining your logic and behavior to them can work wonders, but you also have to be willing to accept their own logic.

Remember that ultimately what matters is that you have a well adjusted child, one who is confident and who doesn't need to missbehave to gain attention or achieve other goals. So don't focus as much on the discipline as on nurturing your child and modeling good behavior. anon

2-year-old pushing and hitting - what can I do?

My 2 year old son has been doing a lot of pushing and hitting when he is around other kids. This started about 4 months ago and I keep thinking it will pass (I know it is normal to some degree) so my discipline has been fairly mild. I typically remove him from the situaiton immediately and talk/explain firmly, but not threateningly our overly loud, about why we don't hit or push. Then we resume play as usual. I'm wondering if I should take a firmer approach and if so how and what do I do (I prefer not to spank). I'm getting to the point where I don't want to go anywhere where we'll be around other kids like parks or birthday parties because I'm tired of following him around in fear he'll harm another child. I'm also tired of treating him like he's a bad kid that has to be watched and can't be trusted. I don't want to tell him ''no'' all day long. He is a sweet, loveable and cooperative child in every other way. Much of this behavior started with the birth of his little sister 4 months ago. How much of this is typical ''terrible twos'' behavior and how much is acting out because of a new sibling in the house? When will it stop and what can I do to enforce consistent and reliable discipline measures? What I'm doing now isn't working. After our talk he will usually go right back and do it again. How do you enforce firm discipline in a 2 year old? anon

My background. I have two kids, one is four and one is five. I won't go into the details but they have all kinds of issues that might have caused them to act this way but I never put up with it. They are generally very well behaved kids -- no hitting, pushing or grabbing and no tantrums. I have an idea for you that does not require yelling, spanking, or saying no repeatedly.

The good news is that you are already half way there! Removing him from the situation immediatly is perfect. But since that and and the 'talking to' is not working I would take it to the next level by telling him that if he hits or pushes there will be no resumption of play.

Here is what I would do. Next time you are about to let him loose in a social situation lay down the law with him before he starts to play. Keep it simple, just ''I can't let you play with others of you hit/push. You can choose to play nicely and we will stay or you can choose to hit/push and we will leave''. The first time you pack him into the car he will be stunned. The second time (and maybe third and fourth...) he will throw a fit. Always be sure to give him the same little speach ''You hit/pushed which means we have to leave''. Don't reinforce the bad behaviour by then going and doing something fun. Just take him and home and say...''okay, now you are going to have to play by yourself''.

At the same time focus on giving him strategies for dealing with frustration that do not involve hitting or pushing. Stuff like, using words to express his feelings, taking turns, walking away or saying 'quit it', getting help from an adult (althought this last one is a slippery slope). He will benefit for the rest of his life from the mastery of these concepts.

As for not wanting to following him around and not trusting him. Unfortunately, for the safety of the other kids and so that *you* can build the trust of the other parents you are going to have to do this until he gets himself under control.

Finally, I recommend that you don't try to figure this out by attaching some sort of an explanation about the arrival of a sibling. Its just a pure waste of time and energy. He's doing what he's doing for what ever reason... you just need to help him understand that its not right and that he has alternatives. hard liner

2.5 year old laughs when I discipline him

When my son was an infant I read in Dr. Sears Baby Book what I thought sounded like great discipline advice - "save your scary, concerned voice for the really important, dangerous messages - e.g. don't run into the street". I'm not a yeller, so it was easy for me to "save that voice" until the appropriate moment - don't play with outlets, don't touch the stove, etc. But from the first moment I used it, my son only LAUGHED at the change in my tone (still does - very frustrating). We do use Time Outs when behavior starts to go too far, but now at 2 1/2, my husband and I are concerned with his lack of appropriate fear/ respect/ danger towards the necessary things in this world. I don't think he's "out of control", and though fairly fearless at the park, I know he does tend to boss other kids around with the phrases he hears. Good habits start early, and if he's doing the same things he is now as a teen, one of us may not survive! Any words of advice, books, etc? Thanks! anonymous please

Our daughter is 19 months old. We don't believe that hitting or other corporal punishment is right for our family, so we are avoiding that as a means of discipline.

Unfortunately, there are times when consequences need to be demonstrated swiftly and decisively. The way I was brought up, a whack across the behind delivered the message. The positive thing about that was that it was over immediately, whereas alternative punishments can drag out for what to a toddler's mind is an interminable duration.

Our daughter, when reprimanded, will "escalate" the encounter, running through all the things she knows we have prohibited, usually ending with her spitting. (Gets a good reaction from us!) This process is quite normal, and it doesn't bother me per se: She is only retesting the boundaries. But I need a firm way of reaffirming the boundaries.

My sister, as I recall, took a middle ground with her kids (all grown now.) She would very deliberately, and in a calm, measured way, draw the child aside and administer a token slap - more a tap, really - on the hand. I don't know how she did it, but they always got the clear message that it was "punishment", even though it was clearly neither painful nor frightening.

I tried this approach with my daughter, but she considers the tap on the hand a big joke, and launches into the gamut of prohibited activities, winding up with a good spit. I tried restraining her arms when she was engaging in bad behavior - just hold her hands and tell her to stop. That turned into a battle of wills, to see who could struggle the longest. I gave that up after a few tries. It really did not feel right to be that embattled. So how do you do it? How does one deliver an instant and clear message that certain behavior will not be tolerated, without hitting?

I think the period from 18 to 24 months is the hardest for this kind of thing, but trust me, be patient and she will learn. I noticed after a while that my kid only occasionally hangs up the phone while I'm on the portable, and hardly ever climbs on the coffee table any more (except if we have guests -- surprise, surprise! It took me a while to figure out this is not coincidence!). They have so much to learn, and I truly believe that with imagination and patience, we can teach them without hitting them. Best of luck.

This is getting to be a real problem between us. I imagine some of you have been in a similar situation, and I'd like to know how you dealt with it. Thanks in advance.

Discipline for Life - Getting it Right with Children, By Madeline Swift and Smart Love by Martha Heineman Piper and William Piper

The Smart Love book starts with infancy - and while i don't necessarily agree with all the specific recommendations about weaning and sleeping, overall the book advocates an extremeley tender, perceptive, forgiving approach to what they call "Loving Regulation" as opposed to discipline. They have a psychology background and the book definitely has an emphasis on long-term psycological well-being. They are decidedly anti-permissive, so that may please your husband - and they are also extremely anti-harsh-discipline. I think you'll like the book!

The Discipline for Life book has lots of concrete examples of situations from preschool age on up (I don't remember any infant/young toddler stuff, but your child will be an older toddler very soon!) and I believe there is a training program/packet that one can order from the back of the book - but I haven't seen that. The gist of this book is building life-long self-discipline in your child, as opposed to handign down discipline that actually erodes self-discipline in the long run. It was also very helpful to me and several people I know who read it. Good luck! Lyla

However, you raise another issue, that of both parents agreeing on what is appropriate. I agree, it might be more productive to go to a class or a "consultant" than to a book. However, having taken a few seminars at Banana's, I can tell you that you can find teachers who run the whole spectrum of harsh to gentle disciplne just like the parenting books. So, what I would recomend to you is a couples/parents therapist. If you husband won't go, go by yourself. I did this, and it is helping both of us a lot. See the web site for recomendations, or e-mail me. I think it is OK to have different levels of strictness, but it is ideal if both parents agree that neither is out of line. Good luck! Lisa

In the Bay Area, seven trainers (including me) teach a process called Nonviolent Communication that has been successfully used internationally to help couples, families, schools, organizations and warring nations to reach a deeper connection and understanding. Its basic premise is that the deepest level of understanding between people or peoples can be reached by connecting with the feelings and needs that motivate our actions, rather than with our thoughts and ideas alone. It is a profound, simple, challenging process, which has been of tremendous help to me as a parent and in relationship with my partner, so much so that I have decided I want to share what I've learned. I am now in the midst of creating special workshops in Nonviolent Communication for parents. Check out the organization's web site at www.cnvc.org. Inbal

One other thing we learned from this class: You can't teach a drowning person to swim. You can't teach a life lesson to a child (or husband) who is upset. Work things out during calm times. Talk in advance about how to handle a situation before it arises (when, in Diane's language, "intensity is low.") If you know that you can't bear to have your kids "cry it out," (which is true for me), let that be known. My husband hates it when I intervene, but I tell him in advance that he can do what he can works things out his own way up until the time he walks away, leaving hurt feelings behind, and at that point I will need to take action, even if it means interfering. But now he knows that about me, and understands that is how things will need to be. Best of luck.

When the child loses control, he wants the parent to step in and help him. Your husband loves his son and is trying to do what he thinks is best. To ignore your child's inappropriate behavior by distracting him is abandoning him morally. Don't be so sensitive, he is not fragile and your husband is not trying to destroy the kid's self image. Don't project your own bad childhood experiences on your son. Time-out is not cruel torture, it is appropriate discipline to the behavior. Trust your husband. He is not the same as your father. Amy