13 yr old - hormones flaring

Our just-turned-13 yr old daughter is new to the public school system. We have never talked to her about dating, sex, relationships etc. She has mentioned many times that ''she knows everything''. we accidentally came upon some of her emails - from which it seems that she is somewhat obsessed by boys/sex. She has not been on a date so far. But she has told us that all of her friends in school have had boyfriends. so looks like we have to have some long overdue conversations with her. we need some advice:

what realistic limits can we set (and expect her to obey) on dating and sex. I am looking for guidelines that have worked (or not) for you.

- is no dating till high school a realistic limit?
- is no sex of any kind till 16/17 a realistic limit?

we definitely want emphasize to her that relationships with boys is not restricted to sex. we want to be supportive as she explores new horizons but at the same time we want to educate her about her responsibilities.

- would allowing her to meet more boys - either in a group environment or one-one-one - help her appreciate non- sexual realtionships.

we were under the impression that we would not have to deal with this situation until high school. how many of you have had to deal with this in 7th grade?

please help Concerned Dad

What has actually changed between my generation and my daughter's is that we have to talk to each other, and be honest about expectations and why they are appropriate. You will find the public schools to be your ally in this, as your daughter's classmates self-destruct under the pressure of being teenagers with parents who have either given up, or think their morality is obsolete... or hold their kids only to the standards they remember from the '60s (a very different time). My daughter has had friends hospitalized for drugs and depression, for cutting and for attempted suicide. She has had teen friends get pregnant and either have or not have a baby. She has had friends throw up on her, go to jail, go to rehab, go to character-building boarding schools... and one just went crazy.

The excitement wears thin pretty fast... and despite parents who think its just the way it is... all these examples supported our expectations and request that she not drink or do drugs, or have sex, in high school. Yes, she and her friends stepped over the line from time to time -- but where would they have been if there were no line??? My heart breaks for her friends who flamed out trying to react against parents who wanted to be cool and figured nothing they said would matter. Or whose parents weren't even paying enough attention to know what was going on.

I would encourage you to start talking with your daughter about the future, and the fact that she HAS one... Make your expectations known to her on a routine basis -- by talking about other kids, or things in the news. My daughter and I used to watch Jerry Springer and the Maury Povitch Show when she was home sick... with the spoken rule that she would NEVER DO ANYTHING that would get her on a show like that. Don't talk about your own foibles -- its dull and in my case would have involved some ''don't do what I did''...even though what I did was not much by modern standards...

My mantra when my daughter was your daughter's age was ''No one told me how much of my life I'd be OVER 18....what was the hurry?'' Anonymous for the sake of my Good Girl

My advice to you is to start hanging out with her. Take her to something that you want to do. Girls will tolerate even ball parks with Dad if it's one on one. You sound great and I am sure she adores you. So talk about everything. Talk about STDs and crazy sex things like 10 year old mothers. Talk about what guys think about girls......about the paradox of nice girls and girls who are nice and about names girls can get called if they have too many boy friends, wear too much make up etc.. and about infatuation/love and talk talk talk...she will roll her eyes but take everything in.

Tell her stories about people you have known.... Moms are great but she is so lucky to have a Dad so for her. The voice of experience

Something this limit also does is give the girls an excuse if they're not ready to put the blame on their parents (my parents are So Strict, they won't let me date until I'm 16!)

Good luck. Its an important job we have to bring strong young women into adulthood. Jenny

I think the number one thing to do is keep the channels of communication open between you all. Let her know that she can talk to you about stuff, be open and without criticism. You are helping to guide her now and you want her to come to you to ask for help or advice, not to sneak around behind your back because she's too afraid to bring something up. If you have another woman family member who she is close to, maybe sugest to her that she talk to her also for another point of view. It's so sweet and sad to hear the stories they tell!

Even if she says she ''knows everything'', I'm sure she doesn't as she's only 13. You can talk about sex without assuming that she's having it or giving your okay for her to have sex. It's just a conversation about real life issues. Don't be afraid to talk to her, just start talking even if she squeels! A good book for you and her to have is ''Out Bodies, Our Selves''. It has lots of very practical information, and can be a good conversation starter. Let her keep it in her room so she can look at it without you.

There are few things for young teens to do in Berkeley, but some of them are fun like ice skating, going to Mel's Diner for a snack, the movies, swimming in the summer, etc. are things they can do as a group. Let her lead, you don't need to organize stuff for her, but you can suggest things if she seems at a loss.

For me, going through this bittersweet time with my daughter brings back a lot from my past. It's a good lesson to look back and try to remember how you felt and what you wish had or hadn't happened! It's her passage to womanhood, help her do it as joyfully and safely as possible. been there and returned!

My daughter's first date was in 7th grade, we insisted it be chaperoned by us. we all went out to dinner and then a movie. We tried not to hover or be geeks. They broke up in 2 weeks. Relationships do not last very long in middle school

Next bf lived in neighborhood so we knew him better, he was at our house a lot! We specified group dates-Notice we are getting more lenient as she has been responsible.

Keep in mind that in middle school conforming to the trend is what's comfortable maybe her school is date crazy-frankly TV etc. shows nothing but dating, teens HATE to be different in their social circle, they may be rebelling against you but they want to be doing, talking and dressing like their friends, if you try to mess with that you are making her be the outcast.

That said you want to help her make good choices so provide her with reading material about responsible sexual behaviour, relationships etc. Then have your wife discuss it with her, don't push too hard and don't freak out, stay calm and state the facts.

Inform her that prior to having sex she will need to be examined by a Gynecologist, explain what the 1st exam is like. This seems to slow girls down, they respect the doctor (just like you get a physical every year before school starts) and they really don't like the idea of the speculum! It helps them wait.

Expect and understand that you will be out of the loop on this-she probably does not want to talk to you or your wife about sex or the boys she likes.

All boys my daughter knows are terrified of her dad, my husband. He does not threaten them in any way but all his dealings w/them are very old school, father knows bestish. One boy was disrespectfull to our property after a breakup and my husband let him and his mom know in no uncertain terms that itt was unacceptable. This boy still is around (again relationships move fast! They went from ''dating'' to friends to flirting again) and he behaves toward us and my daughter much more appropriately. I thought this was awful at first-but it seems to keep those boys respectfull-so your wife is their pal, you make them sweat.

We let her know we will be her bad guy if she feels pressured, ie if she doesn't want to do something I take the blame by saying she can't. This gives her an out that saves face in teen world. good luck! feeling your pain

For quite a few years, in many teen-friendly clinics, teens have had access to birth control methods (including birth control pills) without pelvic exams of any kind. Testing for common sexually transmitted diseases (i.e. gonorrhea/chlamydia)can also done with just a urine specimen.

SO.....if one does want to use fear tactics, it might be better to be accurate.Accurate information helps build trust. There are many genuine risks that teens face when making the decision to become sexually acitve.For instance: adolescents are the fastest growing group of persons newly diagnosed with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). It's important that adolescents get to discuss the pros and cons of sexual activity with people who care about them, in an honest, respectful way. Lori

12.5 y-o daughter: How do I parent a teenager?

I could really use some advice - and some support - on managing my own feelings as I adjust to our daughter's adolescence. To begin with, she's a great, smart, literate kid, a terrific student, a loving big sister, nothing has gone at all wrong - thankfully - in the big picture. Now 12 1/2, she's probably right on schedule, which is to say that: she always runs late, she's become a total slob, she never helps around the house without a huge amount of cajoling, she wouldn't take a bath for a month without our insistence, she is often morose, grumpy, overhungry, bored, totally picky when it comes to food, and would rather just eat an ice cream sundae for dinner if given the option. And it wasn't so long ago that she was a sweet, happy, flexible kid! I find my very long fuse getting shorter by the day. I don't want to engage in huge power struggles with her. I want to respect her privacy. I don't want to pick her laundry up from the floor every time I enter her room. I guess I just want her back. And of course, time marches forward, and I need to march forward with it into her adolescence. Additionally, we moved about a year and half ago from the Bay Area, and she left her fabulous school at the end of fourth grade, and she has yet to make new buddies in our new home. We also moved away from a big city, and there's a lot less to do in our new setting, so she's home a tremendous amount with a lot of time on her hands. She is actively pissed off about being here, and I can't tell if it's because she really doesn't like it or it's age- related (probably a mix of the two). I keep trying to suggest activities, but she's too teen-age now, and most everything lacks appeal. So we rub up together a lot, and that is just a feature of where we live now. So, I'd really like some tips as to how to maintain my patience, save the power struggles for the things that really matter, and keep my loving cool as we plunge into the next few years. Thanks!! surviving ophelia

I'm the mom of three girls, two in college, one still in high school. When the oldest reached puberty, my husband and I realized that because of our own histories, neither of us had any idea at all of how to be the parents of teens. It took some time to figure out, but here are the strageties we used and are still using to get through the challenging teen years. First, let me recommend any book written by Michael Riera - his writings on the subject of raising and parenting teens was invaluable to us.

We bagan with a daughter who went off the deep end in eighth grade - counseling didn't help - it just made us all angry. We came up with a number of strageties based on Michael Riera's books - sorry I can't remember the name of the book. But he was pretty popular then, I'm sure you can find one.

Basically we set some rules, changed our own behavior and attitudes and committed to being the safety net no matter what. What follows is a list of our strategies and rules.

1. We were honest with the girls, and told them that we had no idea of what good parents of teens did. But that we would make desicions based on our own thoughts, opinions and through discussion with them. So, we required that they ask permission of us, that they know all the details of who, what, when and where before asking, and committed to giving a reasoned answer. Sometimes we had to think things over, so they learned that to push us meant an automatic ''no'', but that letting us discuss and think usually meant des''would follow, although often with limits. We learned to listen to them. We also learned that many plans fell apart last minute, so it was easy to say ''yes'' and set limits.

2. Dinner together on school nights (Sunday through Thursday) was required, and dinner was scheduled at 7. Eventually they each took a night to cook a meal. We made sure to ask everyone the news of the day, and made sure to talk things through, listen to opinions, not to judge ideas, but to ask for more information. It took a looooong time for them and us to get used to talking and listening. But we stuck with it. When each one took responsibility for a nightly meal, we all agreed that it was not ok to criticize the cook. We agreed that ''Thank you for this nice meal.'' was required, especially on those nights where the new cook (or the old one - me- screwed up.)

3. We told them, and we meant it, that we would pick them up any time, any place with no questions until everyone was calm. And we did that. We've picked up our kids, and other peopli's kids in many odd places over the years. But they know that they are safe. A corollary to the rule became that if someone threw up in the car they had to clean it before noon the next day. That only happened twice. But there was more than one occasion where one of the kids scared themselves and we were able to help out. We really did wait a few days to discuss these disasters, and then took the approach of asking what happened, what they would have done differently and listening.

4. Understand that as they get older that you become the ''consultant'' more than the guide. This is key. We listened, shared ideas and opinions, pointed out problems with logic and asked questions. We also shared our own experience - as appropriate. Most kids can figure out what their mistake was, and in fact, you may find that the quality of the childs logic and processing is a good indicator of their readiness for more (or less) freedom. These discussions ranged from the big subjects like drugs, alcohol, sex, abusive parents or boy/girl friends, the nature of trust and friendship to politics, teachers, school issues or the small but critical issues of flip flops versus sandals or sweatshirst versus hoodie or pierced versus clip on earrings.

5. Chores were required. We explained that our family is a team that cannot function without the participation of all concerned. And we cleaned house together every Sunday morning for quite awhile, eventually one daughter asked if she could be responsible for the laundry only. Sure! It was easier for her schedule, and she was better at not mixing the reds with the whites than I am. We didn't insist on them cleaning their rooms, just the public areas and our bedroom (the perk of being the parent).

6. Finally, we told them that we wouldn't ask a question that we didn't want the answer to, and that lying to us would have worse consequences than the action itself, no matter how simple or serious. We haven't always liked the answers to the questions we asked. But having committed to listen and discuss later, there have been few blow ups. And we committed to punishing the lie, not the mistaken action itself. Doesn't mean that there weren't consequences, but that the most serious consequences came for the lie.

7. Another small but critical item. When daughter number 1 fell apart I made sure to go into her room every night for just a few minutes of private time. It began as mundane ''how's it going?'' and eventually became time for discussion. Yes she resented it and thought I was wierd, but those discussions became the breakthrough when she confessed to drug and alcohol use and asked for help. Ever since then I have spent a few moments with each child on their own before going to sleep. THose 5 minutes have become critical in my relationship with the other two girls - they have become the forum for some very personal discussions as well as some downright silliness on our part.

8. Looking this over, it seems like i'm saying that this was easy. It was not. We were lucky. Although most kids get through adolescence without too much trauma, some do not and it isn't easy to predict who will or won't be harmed, or how serious the damage will be. So keep your eyes and ears open, stay involved and stay aware. Some of the most involved parents still ended up with children in serious trouble. What saved them was that they were involved.

Take my opinion and ideas for what they are worth. Things weren't always smooth or simple, the girls did lie to us and misinform us, we did have to intervene and set limits, but we always tried to reason things through, to have reasons for our decisions and to respect their growing intelligence and maturity. And sometimes we just had to say ''because I'm not comfortable, and can't think of a reason, so no.'' The two older ones tell us that we did a good job and were good parents. They call us and talk to us daily even now, so I feel like in our family at least our strategies worked.

Take this for what it's worth, use what you can, ignore the rest, adjust what doesn't feel right. Have faith in your daughter.

One last thing, never let a day go by without telling her that you love her and complementing her on a good choice, an accomplilshment, a mature decision. Let her know you care. Carolyn

The only thing I can think of to tell you is to talk about responsibility. If they went to school, did their chores, let you know where they were, came home on time, etc. I would let them know that I was giving them permission to do XXX because they had shown that they were being responsible and using good judgement. Demonstrating more responsibility leads to more privileges. Coming out the other end

Our boys were a lot easier than our daughter. Girls mature earlier and they can be more interested in having boyfriends in high school than boys. Nevertheless, we were there to pick our our daughter at any time and we did rescue her from a situation she felt too young to take part of. Our boys are in frequent contact with us now and often call to run things by us, something they did not want to do in high school. If you get through the tough times your relationship with your kids can improve when they are a little older. Judy