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Berkeley Parents Network > Advice > Teenagers > Teens & Sleep
We have a 14 yr old who can not self regulate to get 9+
hours of sleep each night. When younger bed time no
problem. Now, doesn't get to bed before 1:00AM. Averages
between 5-6 hours per night. Teen feels it is the only free
time they have. Stays up reading or sneaking the computer.
Have locked up computer but wonder if that really helps
teen to self regulate. Have any suggestions?
concerned parent
A friend with 2 teenagers told me that she doesn't let her
kids sleep past 10am on the weekends - too much 'sleeping
away the day' or something. I've always let my (teenage)
kids sleep until they wake up on the weekends - I figure
they get up early every weekday, their bodies must need the
rest. But now that she mentioned it, I wondered if it's a
good idea. What do you think?
wake up call?
Help! My 12-year-old daughter can't fall asleep on her own! She is taking long-acting medication for ADD so that might be a factor, but the truth is she has never been a good sleeper, and always refuses sleepovers, trips away from home and sleepaway camp because she is worried that she will not fall asleep and will be awake all night in a house/bunk full of sleeping people. She told me just last night (when she couldn't sleep and I wanted to!) that she doesn't ''know how'' to fall asleep. Any ideas? I'd even be willing to take her to a clinic if there is one that deals with such problems. She is starting to really feel bad that she can't spend the night away from us and frankly, my husband and I could use a break too! Mother of a night owl
You may get some responses suggesting behavior changes (afternoon exercise, nighttime reading or stretching or shower, nighttime ritual like talking together, music tapes in the dark, yoga, self-hypnosis, no TV watching before bed, not having a 1st period class so teen can sleep later in the morning) or dietary changes (chamomile tea or warm milk at bedtime, or carbs like fruit or bread, but no protein or sugar, after dinner).
I got a chamomile-based pill called Calm-forte at the natural food store at El Cerrito Plaza that the staff said was appropriate for younger teens. It helped my kids. Now that my son is 16 he occasionally takes melatonin before bed. You can get that cheaply at Trader Joe's. Either pill may be a placebo, but I don't think they're harmful. However, you might want to check with your doctor or pharmacist regarding drug interactions with food or supplements. good luck
I would like to get some feedback and perspective from parents. I have an ongoing concern about sleep deprivation among our teens and how it is impacting their health as well as their performance in school, and would like to get some feedback and perspective from other parents.
Part of the problem is the starting time of many Bay Area high schools, and the scheduling of difficult classes first thing in the morning. Albany High starts at 7:40 am, and many of the more advanced classes which have only one section, such as math, are offered at that hour. These classes require a lot of concentration, at an hour when most teens are still waking up.
Studies have shown that teen's biological clocks shift during puberty, and not only do they need more sleep, but they naturally stay up longer and need to sleep longer. Their brains don't start functioning at peak until later in the morning, around 8:30 or 9:00 am. Sleep deprivation amongst our teens is brought on by the multitude of responsibilities they have and by their own natural sleep cycle, which may be impairing their ability of learn and retain information.
Our high school students are trying to balance their school work in multiple subjects, along with part-time jobs, practice in sports or an arts activity that often goes late into the evening. Our daughter, who is in 11th grade at Albany High, cannot get to her homework until 7 or 8 pm, and works until midnight or 1 am, because the homework load is so heavy. She is seriously tired when she gets up at 6:40 am to get to a 7:40 am class. And this tiredness is cumulative, as sleep deprivation builds up and eventually makes her sick and have to miss school.
I find this kind of scheduling and pressure unhealthy for our kids, and would welcome your comments.
Eileen
Regarding scheduling of hard classes into the morning--I have NO idea why this is done, but it's a bad idea. This happened to my daughter. Her required, difficult, math class was scheduled ONLY at 8am. She is NOT a morning person. Neither are we. The class was a disaster from the start. Despite my pleadings with both her and her counselor that she delay the class to another semester and time, she went ahead and took it. She failed, and the failure in that class caused her to lose confidence, give up, and subsequently fail in every other class, and eventually she attempted suicide over being such a "failure." Rather than have this happen again, we chose to remove her from the school system altogether, and "un-school" her (like homeschooling, but more directed by the student). This is a radical solution, but appears to be one of the few solutions available when no one is listening to the fact that these early hours DO NOT WORK for teens.
BTW: Since she has been unschooling, she's done just fine on a schedule that has her going to sleep at midnight, and leaving for work/classes around 11 am. She's happy, productive, learning lots, and wonderful to be around. An utter contrast from her former tired, cranky, unmotivated self. Good luck convincing the powers that be to change things! Sincerely, Dawn
"Studies show that while fifth and sixth graders can be wide awake all day after about nine hours' sleep, teenagers need 10 hours to be alert all day long, says Richard D. Simon, Jr., MD, medical director of the Kathryn Severyns Dement Sleep Disorder Center in Walla Walla, WashSimon. "The average teenager gets about six hours' sleep, so he's sleep-depriving himself completely," he says. Other researchers put the necessary amount of sleep for teens at about 9 hours and 15 minutes a night. ... In addition, high-school-age children appear to undergo a shift in their biological 'body clock,' which tells them when to rise and go to bed, he says: "There's some evidence that teenagers' biological clock may be programmed to start turning off later at night and turn on later in morning." According to the National Sleep Foundation report, studies have shown that the typical high school student's natural bedtime is 11 p.m. or later."
So an 11pm bedtime, pretty reasonable for teens with homework and after school activities, means that your teen should be sleeping till 8:30 or 9 in the morning, which is impossible for most high schools. Allowing an hour for the teen to have a shower and eat breakfast and wait for the bus, we're looking at an arrival time 10am or so. I think what happens instead is they are forced to get up too early, fall asleep during class, walk through the day like a zombie, and try to catch up on the weekends.
I'm not too optimistic about the schools figuring this problem out in the next 20 years. After all they still think all families have a mommy at home to greet kids at 3pm every day. There are alternatives though. My son just started this year at Berkeley High Independent Study. The jury is still out on whether this change will address his academic "issues". But one huge benefit of BIS is that my night owl son has been able to arrange his schedule so that he can sleep in most mornings. The combination of more sleep and more control over his schedule has really made a big difference in his day-to-day demeanor and in our relationship too. Ginger
The patterns of discipline and study that are set in middle school are "in most cases" the ones that will carry students through high school and college. So teaching good study habits and time management are important skills for later in life. I also think that broadening the base of knowledge in specific subjects is also a postive achievement in middle school. HOWEVER, is there a danger that we are also teaching our children to become "workaholics" or something less negative "do-aholics" by virtue of the fact that we keep them so busy with exercises for the mind?
I question just how wise our culture is in stressing the acquisition of knowledge as a vehicle for self-fulfillment and social success without a complementary emphasis on the cultivation of wisdom. Have we not forgotten to tend to the spirit and introduce qualities and practices that are meant to open our young people to the possibility of wisdom arising from silence and quiet reflection?
I have many more questions than answers; however, this culture seems to have many more answers than questions. The problem arises when questions are no longer encouraged, discussion is had for the sake of hearing oneself and others talk, and political discourse is used to condone the righteousness of one group's values. Wisdom is concealed by efforts at pleasant social intercourse, or worse yet by efforts to establish one point of view as superior to another. I do question the wisdom of excessive homework (busywork) at a time in the world's evolution that calls for a grand leap of understanding of what it is to be an evolving human being?
I hope I stayed close enought to the topic, Eileen. I am wrestling with questions that arise from living with an emerging adolescent and the changes that come with all that, including homework and scheduling.
Suzanne
I think it would be useful if there were a variety of schedules to accomodate the various internal clocks the kids (hey and teachers too) have. But don't forget -- if your kid stays up to 11 pm to do homework now when he or she is getting out of school at 2:45-- would you really be happy with him or her staying up till 1 am or later to get the same amount of work done because school didn't end until 5 pm? Maybe we are just allowing our kids to do too much (school plus sports plus jobs...)
Our daughter, 13, is a high achieving and motivated public school student. Starting last June, she began to have terrible insomnia. It continued through the summer, despite being engaged in vigorous physical activities. She swears that she is not worried about anything (except not sleeping). I visited the Food Mill (a good source of information on homeopathic/naturopathic treatments) and began giving her Passionflower/chamomile tea and Valerian. These seemed to have little or no effect. She tried adjusting her bedtime and waking time with no change. She increased her swimming in an effort to fatigue herself. Needless to say, she was a frustrated and fragile person much of the time; grouchy to her sisters, dad and me.
We consulted her pediatrician, who was not much help, but did say that she had seen several kids that week with the same complaint!
I had hoped, that when school began in September, the problem would resolve itself. It has improved, but she still has nights with little sleep several times per week. I just don't know what to think. After a day of school, swim workouts and hours of homework she should be exhausted, but isn't. She is not a "nervous energy" sort of person. Now I don't know what, if anything, I can do to help my daughter. She is becoming concerned because she must soon take the ISEE and other entrance exams for high school admission, and she wants to do well. Her dad and I are trying to keep all of this as 'low key' as possible, since we both find the pressures placed on such young kids to be unreasonable.
Is there anything else I might do to help her? I really don't want her to be medicated constantly, but she certainly needs more rest. Has anyone else experienced this with their daughter? Suggestions welcome!
Do you have Kaiser coverage? I know that Kaiser has a program to help people who are having sleep problems. It is an amazingly common problem. You might also consult a therapist. While you may not want your daughter to rely on medication as a permanent thing to get to sleep (completely understandable concern), she may at this point be feeling so worried and anxious about whether she will be able to sleep that she is too wound up to let go and get there. I consulted a psychiatrist at Kaiser when my sleep problems briefly resurfaced as an adult. He prescribed an antidepressant which he said was not addictive. I did use it sometimes and it did help. When my sleep problems got better, I stopped using it without a problem.
I found the sleeping class even more helpful tho' because it gave really good practical tips on how to help yourself sleep. Here are some of the top tips I heard there: Try to get up and go to sleep each day at pretty much the same time - so that is weekdays and weekends alike. If you sleep in on weekends, you are not as ready to go to sleep at your normal time (say on a Sunday). (I resisted this advice at first because I dearly love sleeping in on the weekends, especially after not falling asleep until late or being sleep deprived from the week, but I finally did try just routinely getting up EVERY day at 7 a.m. or earlier and it really did seem to help.) If you fall asleep late or have trouble sleeping at night, still get yourself up early and do NOT take naps. Try to use your bedroom only for sleeping. If your daughter is doing homework in her room she may associate the room with thoughts of school and have trouble relaxing. If she uses her room to watch tv, she is getting used to thinking of it as a place where she does things other than sleep. It is good to get used to using the room (and associating it) primarily with sleep. Don't look at the clock as you are getting ready for bed or while you are in bed or if you are having trouble sleeping - it just makes you more tense. If you don't fall asleep within a reasonable time of going to bed (e.g., 10 or 15 minutes) GET UP and go do something in another room that is not stimulating or stressful - read a book, whatch tv, sweep the floor - until you begin to relax, then go back to bed and try again. If you remain in bed for too long not sleeping, it reinforces the notion that the bed is not a place where you sleep. These things helped me a lot. I hope that they help your daughter. Hang in there, and good luck! Sleep problems are a giant bummer but they probably will improve with time. DMorris
There are some mental tricks for getting your conscious mind to let go that she could learn from a psychologist or clinic, or probably find by researching the internet. I have had insomnia all my life and have had good results using time-released melatonin (Long's sells it). Another remedy that has been helpful is Hylands Calms Forte. Hot milk in combination with one of these works well for my ordinary insomnia episodes.
Insomnia is one of those things that you deal with intermittently all your life, if you're one of those people that gets it. You are doing a very good thing to help your daughter learn how to deal with it. Good luck; I hope you find her the help she needs. Louise
Find another doctor or mention a short term sleeping aid to help her body adjust back to its normal cycle. For whatever the reason, your daughter's sleep cycle has been interrupted and she needs help getting it back. Not being able to sleep is hard enough on adults. I can only imagine what it's like for children who need more of it. marianne
Since melatonin is a hormone, it is really important to talk to your daughter's pediatrician before initiating therapy. As a pharmacist, I would caution against using prescription sleep medications (Ambien or the various benzodiazepines, such as Ativan or Restoril). These drugs can cause dependency and, as such, are inappropriate for use in children and teens.
We live in a society that does not understand fatigue. We think that we need sleep when we are sleepy (ie. can no longer focuse, concentrate or stay awake). That is not correct. By that point, we have become over tired. We should instead go to sleep when we are tired. Often, when we pass the threshold of being tired, and stay awake, we become "wired" and then have a difficult time falling asleep even though we are more fatigued.
Here were some suggestions:
1) develop regular sleep pattersn. ie go to sleep at a regular time;
2) get more sleep if you wake up fatigued. One should wake up refreshed;
3) Go to sleep feeling pleasant - have a hot bath, do something relaxing.
Do not get into an argument or
exciting conversation, or watch a scary/exciting movie.
4) Have your place of sleep be pleasant and comfortable (good sheets,
bedclothes, mattress)
5) make sure your room is dark. Light will cause sleep disturbances
including night lights
The doctor interviewed considered good sleep a foundation for good health.
Now that my son is going to Arrowsmith Academy, he is so much happier, relaxed and having fun learning than I've ever seen him. It's like a huge weight has been lifted off our whole small family of three. He still sometimes stays up too late on weekends with friends, and/or has trouble getting to bed and waking up in the morning but he is so much more able to be self-regulating in managing his sleep needs.
I too would love to hear more about sleep deprivation and changing natural sleep cycles among teens. In particular, I'd like to hear more about what Eileen Hadidian mentioned in her comment:
"Studies have shown that teen's biological clocks shift during puberty, and not only do they need more sleep, but they naturally stay up longer and need to sleep longer. Their brains don't start functioning at peak until later in the morning, around 8:30 or 9:00 am. Sleep deprivation amongst our teens is brought on by the multitude of responsibilities they have and by their own natural sleep cycle, which may be impairing their ability of learn and retain information." Thank you for bringing this up. Tani
Editor Note: there is some info about this research on the web here: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.60579 (WebMD website)
Mine is up to date on all the medications and procedures and has changed my prescriptions and treatments a few times because of new things he learned about, so I trust his opinion. Your doctor will be better able to rule out causes for the insomnia and figure out what's best for your teen. Good luck. Marianne
Then, she joined the Berkeley High crew team. The afternoon practices gave her an excuse to stay up later to complete homework. She wanted to quit crew (which we refused to allow because she had quit every other sport up to that point) We worried about how she was going to manage crew, school, and studies once practices shifted to 5:45.
What a surprise! When she had to started getting up at 5:00 a.m. to get to 5:45 (2 hr) practice sessions, no more sleep problems and no more complaining about quitting. The change was instanteous. She gets up on her own so as not to miss her ride and look irresponsible to her peers (we car pool); she now goes to tutoring after school on her own volition to get help with 2 of her courses. She comes home, does several hours more of homework and is in bed (on her own volition by 10:00 p.m. compared to 12:00 and 1:00 a.m. before) and is asleep within minutes). She's now a solid "A" student. Go figure. Was it a change in sleep schedule? A shift in exercise schedule? Peer pressure?
Last updated: Apr 30, 2008
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