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Trouble Falling Asleep
Oct 2009
Ever since my son was an infant he has had difficulty falling asleep.
He has seen a homeopath at the Hanneman Clinic, seen a cranioscral
specialist, taken natural sleep supplements, and tried a sleep
program at the UC Berkeley Psychology Dept., all without success.
My request is if anyone has dealt with sleep issues, esp. in teen-
agers please let me know how you solved them. I feel I have tried
almost everything I know.
as a fellow mom of an insomniac since birth, as well as a sometimes
insomniac myself, i know of what you speak. and you and your son
might not want to hear this, or maybe you will, but it might be time
just to accept it, and realize that maybe, he's just a terrible
sleeper/part of his hardwiring, and you learn to live with it.
that's basically what happened with my son, and he's a pretty
bright, happy, successful kid (he's now 21). one of my very best
friends is also a lifelong insomniac, and she too has a very rich
and rewarding life. sometimes there aren't solutions to problems,
and you just learn to live with them, like taking naps when you can,
sleeping more on weekends, and learning to cope when you feel
tired. might not be what you want to hear, but it hope it helps.
mom of lifelong insomniac
I have a 17 yr old daughter who has struggled with sleep since she
was an infant. She showed a delayed sleep phase, unable to fall
asleep before the wee hours of the morning, something that
interfered big time with school. She would spend hours in bed,
unable to sleep. The above affected her mood, anxiety level,
alertness in school and school performance, weight,and her
relationships with friends. We tried a myriad of medications, for
anxiety, depression, etc. Finally, I had to switch psychiatrists in
order to find a doc who was willing to put her on sleep medication,
Ambien. My daughter is now a different person. She sleeps 8 hours a
night. Her anxiety is much improved, the depression disappeared. She
is no longer falling aleep in class and her social life is one of
good and close friends. Once my daughter started on sleeping
medication, the change in her was remarkable, in all aspects of her
life. I wish I had gone the above route years beforehand.
Peggy
My daughter has had terrible sleep issues since she was an infant. She is now a junior in
college. During high school her lack of sleep was especially difficult for her to deal with.
She finally went to the sleep clinic at Stanford, where she is a student, and received the
best advice she ever got. She was told that for one month she had to get up every
morning by 8:00 am and immediately (within 5 minutes) get outside in the daylight and
exercise for an hour. She was never a serious athlete or exerciser, but for a month she
got up every day and ran or walked for an hour. No matter what time she went to sleep (or
didn't), she had to get up and exercise out in the daylight by 8 am. She was told that if
she missed a day, she would have to start back at day one and then continue for a month.
She also couldn't take more than one nap for 30 minutes during the day. She was so
desperate that she was willing to commit to this regimen, and it made a world of
difference. Now, whenever she falls back into a sleepless state she can get back into this
routine for a few days and she's back to sleeping reasonably well (for a college student!). I
highly recommend that your child give this a try. It may be that you will need a doctor or
other professional to make the recommendation in order for it to be taken seriously
enough to be followed conscientiously.
Mom to a former insomniac
April 2009
Hello, I need advice about my 13 1/2 yr. old daughter's
inablility to fall asleep. She lies awake anxious and fearful
about the dark. She has a nightlight and usually sleeps with
the dog in her room.However, she goes into her little brother's
room and falls asleep in his bed, disturbing him regularly. We
thought she would grow out of it but it seems to be getting
worse. She says there is nothing much she is anxious about at
school, she's got friends and is generally of a happy
disposition. All her fears seem to come out at night, although
she cannot articulate them beyond ''I feel something's going to
come and get me.'' Does she have OCD? Should she see a
therapist? Please advise.
Anxious mom
Hi. Yoga can help her calm her nerves. Also, having her get up at
6 a.m. and going out for a nice walk with her and talking about
things might help her get to sleep as she'll be exhausted from
getting up early. You could also try to lay down with her and
listen to some calming music with her and/or touching her head
gently as she lulls herself to sleep. Yes, she may be 13 years-old
and some of these methods might seem to ''old,'' for her but she's
desiring some companionship at night to help her with her night
terros. Also, emphasizing to her that she's protected, loved, and
cared for may help her with her anxiety. Good luck and cherish
these moments with your daughter. I do these techniques with each
of my sons in particular my 10 year old when he's struggling with
his anxiety fits...good luck!!!
mother, too
Hi,
I recommend the book Sleepless in America by Mary Sheedy Kurchinka
which has lots of good perspective on understanding your individual
child.
You might try out a couple of remedies available at health food
stores--Rescue Sleep (Bach Flower essence)and Calms Forte
(homeopathic). Also consider looking into the Emotional Freedom
Technique--google it--basic instructions can be downloaded, learned at
home and applied if she is motivated. This can be quite effective with
fears. It is relaxing, and in my experience, helps some people fall
asleep easily.
If you and your daughter want further assistance, there are
practitioners around who consult on fears and sleep in brief therapy,
such as Jill Shugart in Berkeley, and myself. (I have an interest in
this area, did research on kids and sleep for sleepgarden.com, with
booklet and CD of guided relaxation,and/or music--Zkids).
You are welcome to contact me to talk things over. Sleepy wishes,
Jenny
Oct 2006
Help! My 12-year-old daughter can't fall asleep on her
own! She is taking long-acting medication for ADD so that
might be a factor, but the truth is she has never been a
good sleeper, and always refuses sleepovers, trips away
from home and sleepaway camp because she is worried that
she will not fall asleep and will be awake all night in a
house/bunk full of sleeping people. She told me just last
night (when she couldn't sleep and I wanted to!) that she
doesn't ''know how'' to fall asleep. Any ideas? I'd even be
willing to take her to a clinic if there is one that deals
with such problems. She is starting to really feel bad
that she can't spend the night away from us and frankly,
my husband and I could use a break too!
Mother of a night owl
Your daughter sounds very much like my 13 year-old son.
He takes medication for ADD but, like your daughter, has
never been a great sleeper. The trick is to get them to
accept that it is OK not to be sleeping and not to feel
all alone if they are awake while others sleep. My son
listens to audio tape books and the sound of the human
voice can feel like company. When he is at friends'
houses or camp, he takes his IPOD. He can listen to music
with headphones and could (but hasn't yet) downloaded
books to listen to. It took him awhile to stop feeling
anxious about being awake and it may be that your daughter
will, as she matures, reach this place. Good luck.
Jocelyn
I have a 12 year old daughter that also has trouble with
falling asleep. We found something by accident recently. For
years, I've been laying down with her when she goes to bed,
and often falling asleep myself. Something that has made a
huge difference (but is an unplanned surprise) is a kitten.
The cat cuddles up to sleep with her every night, and they
are both out in minutes. We also leave a low level light on,
or the computer for light/sound. With the help of the
kitten, she is now quite independent about bed time. Works
much better than the stuffed animals!
anderson
Nothing that a 2 hour daily soccer practice wouldn't cure. Probably'd get her off the
ADD meds too.
Sean
I sympathize. Sleep deprivation is awful, and young teens
already have a hard time with their circadian rhythms
shifting later than the school schedules permit.
You may get some responses suggesting behavior changes
(afternoon exercise, nighttime reading or stretching or
shower, nighttime ritual like talking together, music
tapes in the dark, yoga, self-hypnosis, no TV watching
before bed, not having a 1st period class so teen can
sleep later in the morning) or dietary changes (chamomile
tea or warm milk at bedtime, or carbs like fruit or bread,
but no protein or sugar, after dinner).
I got a chamomile-based pill called Calm-forte at the
natural food store at El Cerrito Plaza that the staff said
was appropriate for younger teens. It helped my kids. Now
that my son is 16 he occasionally takes melatonin before
bed. You can get that cheaply at Trader Joe's. Either pill
may be a placebo, but I don't think they're harmful.
However, you might want to check with your doctor or
pharmacist regarding drug interactions with food or
supplements.
good luck
I would be concerned as to whether the ADHD medication
dosage is proper. As one who is generally critical of the
use of stimulant drugs in children, I am very sensitive
about kids who, while on this medication, have trouble
with normal sleep cycles. Sleep deprivation (Inormal
cycles) can be as harmful to the learning process as so-
called ADHD.
I would recommend consultation regarding the drug regimen.
Robert
I am appalled by the negative messages about ADHD that
have appeared in the last few newsletters. I am a
psychotherapist who has treated both adults and kids with
ADHD for many years. To say it is ''so called'' ADHD or to
criticize a parent's decision to use medication is just
wrong and uncaring. Try walking around in the shoes of
someone who is dealing with ADHD themselves or parenting a
child with this well documented and real condition before
such criticism is spoken. Medication does help ADHD and
was shown by one of the biggest studies done on children
with the condition (the MTA study funded by the National
Institute of Mental Health) to be the most effective
strategy to use. My belief is anyone who doesn't want to
use it shouldn't but parents of kids with ADHD have a big
enough struggle without others condemning them for using
the most effective treatment for this condition!That said,
it is possible the medication dosage is keeping your child
awake and it is wise to discuss that with your
pediatrician.
Melinda
I did not see the original post, but when my son had trouble
sleeping in 4th/5th grade, I had success with melatonin,
herbal based, avail. only in health food stores, and
generally considered ''safe.'' I find that 1/2 tablet, about
30 min. before bedtime relaxed him enough to allow a good
night's sleep. No side effects (that I can detect). His
only other medicine was for allergy.
Would also recommend physical exercise. If your child does
not do competitive sports, try swimming 3-4x a week. After
swimming lessons, my child no longer has trouble sleeping
and the overall health benefits are tremendous.
Anon.
November 2001
Our daughter, 13, is a high achieving and motivated public school student.
Starting last June, she began to have terrible insomnia. It continued
through the summer, despite being engaged in vigorous physical activities.
She swears that she is not worried about anything (except not sleeping). I
visited the Food Mill (a good source of information on
homeopathic/naturopathic treatments) and began giving her
Passionflower/chamomile tea and Valerian. These seemed to have little or no
effect. She tried adjusting her bedtime and waking time with no change. She
increased her swimming in an effort to fatigue herself. Needless to say, she
was a frustrated and fragile person much of the time; grouchy to her sisters,
dad and me.
We consulted her pediatrician, who was not much help, but did say that she
had seen several kids that week with the same complaint!
I had hoped, that when school began in September, the problem would resolve
itself. It has improved, but she still has nights with little sleep several
times per week. I just don't know what to think. After a day of school, swim
workouts and hours of homework she should be exhausted, but isn't. She is
not a "nervous energy" sort of person. Now I don't know what, if anything, I
can do to help my daughter. She is becoming concerned because she must soon
take the ISEE and other entrance exams for high school admission, and she
wants to do well. Her dad and I are trying to keep all of this as 'low key'
as possible, since we both find the pressures placed on such young kids to be
unreasonable.
Is there anything else I might do to help her? I really don't want her to be
medicated constantly, but she certainly needs more rest. Has anyone else
experienced this with their daughter? Suggestions welcome!
a brief response/query to the mom with the daughter having insomnia -- it
sounded like she was tired and fatigued during the summer, but I wasn't sure if
she's still tired now. I only ask because my son has basically been an
"insomniac" since birth -- he's always gotten much less sleep than his peers.
My son's pattern is that he does fine during the school week, and then on the
weekend he crashes and sleeps a lot (during the week he falls asleep b/t 11:30
and 12 and is up at 7:30, and often says he wakes up in the middle of the
night). If she's functioning okay during the week, I'd just let it ride. Even
though she says she's not feeling worried or stressed, she might be having some
anxiety around the high school entrance exam, or something else, and the sleep
disruption is just how the anxiety is coming out.
asa
To the parent whose 13-year old daughter has insomnia, your daughter
probably IS feeling exhausted, but just is unable to relax or slow down her
brain enough to go to sleep. I remember that I had sleep problems also at
exactly that age. They lasted for several months, and then gradually went
away on their on. I think that was the year when I first began taking
"advanced" classes in school. It is a busy time for kids - lots of new stuff to take
in and deal with, lots of hormones swirling around, school and social issues, and
family too. Your presence probably is a comfort to her, and it sounds good that
you are trying to keep things low key. I remember that I finally would fall
asleep that year around 2 or 3 a.m., usually after I woke up my mother and had
her sit with me for a few minutes while I had a glass of milk and a cookie.
Do you have Kaiser coverage? I know that Kaiser has a program to help people
who are having sleep problems. It is an amazingly common problem. You
might also consult a therapist. While you may not want your daughter to rely
on medication as a permanent thing to get to sleep (completely understandable
concern), she may at this point be feeling so worried and anxious about
whether she will be able to sleep that she is too wound up to let go and get
there. I consulted a psychiatrist at Kaiser when my sleep problems briefly
resurfaced as an adult. He prescribed an antidepressant which he said was not
addictive. I did use it sometimes and it did help. When my sleep problems got
better, I stopped using it without a problem.
I found the sleeping class even more helpful tho' because it gave really good
practical tips on how to help yourself sleep. Here are some of the top tips I
heard there: Try to get up and go to sleep each day at pretty much the same
time - so that is weekdays and weekends alike. If you sleep in on weekends, you
are not as ready to go to sleep at your normal time (say on a Sunday). (I
resisted this advice at first because I dearly love sleeping in on the weekends,
especially after not falling asleep until late or being sleep deprived from the
week, but I finally did try just routinely getting up EVERY day at 7 a.m. or
earlier and it really did seem to help.) If you fall asleep late or have trouble
sleeping at night, still get yourself up early and do NOT take naps. Try to use
your bedroom only for sleeping. If your daughter is doing homework in her
room she may associate the room with thoughts of school and have trouble
relaxing. If she uses her room to watch tv, she is getting used to thinking of it
as a place where she does things other than sleep. It is good to get used to
using the room (and associating it) primarily with sleep. Don't look at the clock
as you are getting ready for bed or while you are in bed or if you are having
trouble sleeping - it just makes you more tense. If you don't fall asleep within a
reasonable time of going to bed (e.g., 10 or 15 minutes) GET UP and go do
something in another room that is not stimulating or stressful - read a book,
whatch tv, sweep the floor - until you begin to relax, then go back to bed and try
again. If you remain in bed for too long not sleeping, it reinforces the notion
that the bed is not a place where you sleep. These things helped me a lot. I
hope that they help your daughter. Hang in there, and good luck! Sleep
problems are a giant bummer but they probably will improve with time.
DMorris
Do you know whether or not your daughter drinks anything caffeinated -
colas, frappacinos, etc.? Some people are mighty sensitive to caffeine.
I would get back to that pediatrician and ask for a referral to a sleep
clinic. You also might do a psychological evaluation; your daughter may
be more stressed than any of you realize. She's at a very anxious point
in life, when childhood is clearly coming to an end and the direction of
her adult life has not yet come clear.
There are some mental tricks for getting your conscious mind to let go
that she could learn from a psychologist or clinic, or probably find by
researching the internet. I have had insomnia all my life and have had
good results using time-released melatonin (Long's sells it). Another
remedy that has been helpful is Hylands Calms Forte. Hot milk in
combination with one of these works well for my ordinary insomnia
episodes.
Insomnia is one of those things that you deal with intermittently all
your life, if you're one of those people that gets it. You are doing a
very good thing to help your daughter learn how to deal with it. Good
luck; I hope you find her the help she needs.
Louise
I recently went through several health issues resulting in my sleep patterns
getting totally screwed up. My doctor put me on ambien for the next two
weeks to get me back on line. He has done this for me before and it has
helped tremendously. I'll sleep for at least six hours and I don't wake up
groggy. This is not a long term treatment. It is only meant to teach your
body to get back on track.
Find another doctor or mention a short term sleeping aid to help her body
adjust back to its normal cycle. For whatever the reason, your daughter's
sleep cycle has been interrupted and she needs help getting it back. Not
being able to sleep is hard enough on adults. I can only imagine what it's
like for children who need more of it.
marianne
I also have a young teenage female athlete who periodically cannot
unwind. She has found relief through acupuncture and hypnotherapy.
Marilyn Gordon is a resourceful hypnotherapist in Oakland who makes
"custom tapes" for issues like these. She has experience working with
children and teens. Years of experience as a hypnotherapist. Our
daughter was also in the first year of her menstrual cycle. The
acupuncture and herbs were helpful in smoothing out some of the
"raging hormones" that were keeping her restless.
Re: daughter who isn't sleeping.
This sounds biochemical to me. I'd go to a good psychiatrist.
I would like to reply to the parent whose daughter has insomnia:
Our 15 year old son has had sleep difficulties for years, but the problem
became extreme this past summer. He has Tourette's, so our pediatrician
recommended we talk to the neurologist. The neurologist recommended
melatonin. The melatonin works very well - almost too well: on the nights he
takes it, our son falls asleep quickly and sleeps through the night but he is
often dozy and difficult to wake up the next morning. We're still trying to
find the best dose.
Since melatonin is a hormone, it is really important to talk to your
daughter's pediatrician before initiating therapy. As a pharmacist, I would
caution against using prescription sleep medications (Ambien or the various
benzodiazepines, such as Ativan or Restoril). These drugs can cause
dependency and, as such, are inappropriate for use in children and teens.
I recently heard an interesting program on KPFA, on the issue of
sleep. Here are my notes.
We live in a society that does not understand fatigue. We think that
we need sleep when we are sleepy (ie. can no longer focuse,
concentrate or stay awake). That is not correct. By that point, we
have become over tired. We should instead go to sleep when we are
tired. Often, when we pass the threshold of being tired, and stay
awake, we become "wired" and then have a difficult time falling asleep
even though we are more fatigued.
Here were some suggestions:
1) develop regular sleep pattersn. ie go to sleep at a regular time;
2) get more sleep if you wake up fatigued. One should wake up refreshed;
3) Go to sleep feeling pleasant - have a hot bath, do something relaxing.
Do not get into an argument or
exciting conversation, or watch a scary/exciting movie.
4) Have your place of sleep be pleasant and comfortable (good sheets,
bedclothes, mattress)
5) make sure your room is dark. Light will cause sleep disturbances
including night lights
The doctor interviewed considered good sleep a foundation for good health.
I don't have much to add except that my own son often experiences the
same thing. It was MUCH worse last year and the year before while
still in middle school during which he was also increasingly depressed
and seriously at risk of failing. I think kids in public middle and
high schools these days experience more conflict, noise, crowdedness,
pressure, multiple priorities, stress, substance abuse temptation,
aggression, and higher work load than most adults, except perhaps the
understaffed, unsupported teachers and counselors who work with
them. Its an insane environment for anyone.
Now that my son is going to Arrowsmith Academy, he is so much happier,
relaxed and having fun learning than I've ever seen him. It's like a
huge weight has been lifted off our whole small family of three. He
still sometimes stays up too late on weekends with friends, and/or has
trouble getting to bed and waking up in the morning but he is so much
more able to be self-regulating in managing his sleep needs.
I too would love to hear more about sleep deprivation and changing
natural sleep cycles among teens. In particular, I'd like to hear more
about what Eileen Hadidian mentioned in her comment:
"Studies have shown that teen's biological clocks shift during puberty, and
not only do they need more sleep, but they naturally stay up longer and need
to sleep longer. Their brains don't start functioning at peak until later in
the morning, around 8:30 or 9:00 am. Sleep deprivation amongst our teens is
brought on by the multitude of responsibilities they have and by their own
natural sleep cycle, which may be impairing their ability of learn and retain
information."
Thank you for bringing this up.
Tani
Editor Note: there is some info about this research on the web here:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.60579 (WebMD website)
Regarding Ambien, I have used it several times in the last three years to
help me get my sleep cycle back to normal (usually after an illness or too
many allnighters at work). What was not said about it, is that if used as
doctor-directed and for a short period of time (two weeks is normal), it can
help your body adjust to a normal sleep cycle which is what you want. I
found no grogginess in the mornings with it. I slept for six hours and woke
up alert. Don't be afraid of trying something that might help. All drugs
have the potential of misuse, but all of them also are there for a reason.
Definately talk to your doctor.
Mine is up to date on all the medications and procedures and has changed my
prescriptions and treatments a few times because of new things he learned
about, so I trust his opinion. Your doctor will be better able to rule out
causes for the insomnia and figure out what's best for your teen. Good luck.
Marianne
My 14 year old had been complaining of difficulty falling asleep for
about 2 years. She seemed to stay up later and later and getting her
up in the mornings to get to school in time was a nightmare. We tried
everything--giving her the responsibility (and if she missed school,
the onus was on her), helping her wake up, extra-loud alarm clocks
strategically positioned (which she slept through.
Then, she joined the Berkeley High crew team. The afternoon practices
gave her an excuse to stay up later to complete homework. She wanted
to quit crew (which we refused to allow because she had quit every
other sport up to that point) We worried about how she was going to
manage crew, school, and studies once practices shifted to 5:45.
What a surprise! When she had to started getting up at 5:00 a.m. to
get to 5:45 (2 hr) practice sessions, no more sleep problems and no
more complaining about quitting. The change was instanteous. She
gets up on her own so as not to miss her ride and look irresponsible
to her peers (we car pool); she now goes to tutoring after school on
her own volition to get help with 2 of her courses. She comes home,
does several hours more of homework and is in bed (on her own volition
by 10:00 p.m. compared to 12:00 and 1:00 a.m. before) and is asleep
within minutes). She's now a solid "A" student. Go figure. Was it a
change in sleep schedule? A shift in exercise schedule? Peer
pressure?
Not Getting Enough Sleep
July 2011
My son is going on 14, and it's unbelievable how much he
sleeps!! He is sleeping right now, and if i don't go throw
water, ice or something worse on him, he will just stay in bed
until like 1:30pm! True, we got back after 12:10am from
watching fireworks last night, but even @ county fairgrounds he
plunked down on a towel and zonked out @ about 5:30pm.
This started at age 11 (middle school, which he did not like).
He'd been in martial arts but decided to boycott it since he
did not want to get up @ 8:15am anymore on Sat. Now he has no
extra-curricular activities except the computer (to the point
that he had to get glasses this year when all his life
previously he'd had 20/20 vision), occasional bike rides &
visits w/ friends. When I take him out to beach, swimming,
fairs etc. it's a HUMUNGOUS effort to drag him off the bed &
requires threatening, pleading, throwing water etc. until
finally i lock up computer (or threaten to) & that gets him up.
Fortunately he attended ID Tech Camp last 2 years, which is
educational, fun & good use of time (though I'm not sure if
it's sociable, since he didn't make any friends there). I also
get him into summer camps where they go fishing, bowling, 6
Flags, etc. (he often says ''Big whoopee'' sarcastically about
all the above, since he only seems to love the computer). But
between the extended lengths of time in bed & the extended time
sitting on couch using the laptop I am worried that 1) He
doesn't get enough fresh air, exercise & blood circulation, 2)
The computer use is actually making him more lethargic & less
inclined to go out & play (I already know it can cause
insomnia) and 3) he is turning into an old man way before his
time--that is what he seems like, laying in bed or sitting on
the couch all the time.
He is in therapy, but so far I don't see anything changed @ all
and am wondering what the use is or how long before any results
are seen. I took him for a physical & it was normal, no
anemia, nothing but Vitamin D deficiency (I got vitamins).
What is a parent to do? Is this ''normal'', a passing stage?
I did not go thru this @ this age, nor did any of my friends!
Is too much sleep harmful? When it's 4 of July and i have
plans to go to the Fair (he agrees that the rides, shows,
fireworks & all are fun) I cannot even get him up for that & we
end up getting there at 3pm--more than 1/2 the day wasted, & no
time to see animals, etc. There was barely time to go on 3 of
those free rides we all like so much. Any suggestions,
comments?
This can't be normal
What you are experiencing with your son sounds a little familar...
When I was about 11 or 12 I developed a thyroid condition that
zapped me of energy. Before I was diagnosed, when I'd go to a
friends house to play, all I wanted to do was lay on their bed!!!
I was really an athletic kid prior to that.
As an adult female, I still have to monitor my meds to make sure
I'm getting enough or not too much thyroid hormone, etc. Thyroid
conditions are ususally pretty benign but I would encourage you to
have a complete blood work-up done on him and also have his
thyroid levels checked.
He may be experiencing the normal teenage indifference, but it's
worth checking.
Good Luck!
Mom of a Pre-teen
To a certain extent it's normal. The boy needs a week at the
river with no gadgets, just animals.
You might want to have him looked at. It could be depression or
Chronic fatique syndrome. Does he sleep at night?
Reenie
I know your son is going to a therapist, but has he been evaluated
for depression, or anything under the pdd (pervasive developmental
disorder) umbrella? A good psychiatrist for teens is Zena Potash
in Walnut Creek. Her phone number is: 925-934-6238.
Karen
The answer is lots! I slept for about 10 hours a day as a teen and
was an A student and Varsity athelete (and grew up to 5 inches in
one year). Once I headed to college I decided for myself that 10
hours was like spending half of my life asleep and I cut back.
Most kids are sleep deprived, IMHO, these days. Just make sure he
isn't sleeping during the day because he is up all night on the
computer or phone (not unusual).
cocosar
I have sympathy rather than solutions for you, I'm afraid. First,
I do think that kids this age need a lot more sleep. I've had a
few teens through my home (biological, guests and foster) and was
often amused by how they would just conk out on the couch during
family time. Some woke fairly easily, and others just couldn't be
roused. My oldest child (now 21) still typically sleeps until noon
when she can. And at this very moment, I'm wishing my 13-year-old
foster son would get up and get to camp on time.
It is really, really hard and sad when you want to do family
things and your teen or pre-teen won't get up. If you've confirmed
that your son isn't depressed or having a sleep disorder, then you
might have to just accept that this is how it's going to be for a
while. Make sure his bedtime is early enough. If his sleep cycle
seems off, check out Ferber's ''Solve Your Child's Sleep
Problems'' which includes lots of useful info on teen sleep
behavior.
Some tactics: Set limits on how much screen time he gets (we have
a weekly amount, with ways to earn and lose time for good or bad
behavior for our 13-year-old). If he's old enough to be left
alone, then go do things without him--let him know without angst
or anger that you won't wait all day for him. During times when
our son is out of screen time and wants to stay home rather than
go out and have fun, we also quietly put away the computer cords.
Set some minimum requirements for time spent in physical activity
or out of the house or at camp, and use the screen time for
leverage. Since our foster son is very anxious and would rather
hole up at home than interact with the world, he earns double-time
for physical activity (half-hour of ping pong equal an hour of
screen time).
As far as the sarcasm and bad attitude are concerned, those might
be age-related too. My eldest was not like this, but my foster son
sure is, and the feedback I've gotten from this list is that it's
typical. It stinks. Try to let him make his own decisions and pay
his own consequences. Insist on attendance at some things,
especially those not in the morning--we insisted on a baseball
game which our teen loved despite the grumbling and but-whying
beforehand. Let him miss out on the morning things if he won't get
up.
Lord get me through this age
Another possible factor might be how much screen time he gets. A
recent study showed that men who used LEED (flat screen) computer
monitors got exposed to more blue light than the old-fashioned, deep
monitor. For some reason this suppressed their melatonin (sleep
hormone) production and kept them more alert for hours afterwards.
Fluorescent (curly) light bulbs and flat screen TVs also have more
blue light than incandescent bulbs and old-fashioned TVs.
You can't do anything about cell phone and laptop screens.
Good luck!
Nov 2010
When a child is a night owl, stays up half the night to read,
can't wake up in time to go to school on time, is very smart but
getting bad grades because she falls asleep in class, what do you
do?
B.
Sounds like a great time to set some boundaries and ''house''
rules. That means lights out by a certain time; 10 pm 11 pm
whatever fits your family. You might also try no phone calls after
a certain time at night especially on school nights. If they have a
cell phone they can put it in the community drawer along with yours
after a certain time at night. Your teen won't like these rules,
but if you are confident, firm, kind and most of all, consistent,
you have a much greater chance of being successful. School is a
teen's job just like getting up and going to work is a parent's
responsibillity. There is simply no negotiating. If you waiver and
behave inconsistently they will too. A parent's job is to set
boundaries in their household for an acceptable standard of
behavior. Do it now before it gets out of hand. Attach a
consequence, bad grades means no going out on weekends or whatever
you decide. Find other parents you can talk with about raising
teens. Start a parenting group. Perhaps the school can help you.
Most of all and I urge all parents ''DON'T WORRY ABOUT MAKING YOUR
TEEN MAD/ANGRY''. They get mad and angry especially when you enforce
rules but that's your job.
jan
Make her a big cup of coffee in the morning. ;}
Pam
What about something like Berkeley High Independent Study - other
districts might have something similar. The schedule is a lot more
flexible -- the student checks in with each teacher once a week to
get work checked and get new assignments but otherwise studies on
his/her own. This worked well (for a while) for my night owl; he
would schedule his appointments with teachers for the afternoons and
then he could sleep in and study at night on his own time. But this
only works if you have a kid who will get the work done on their
own. Otherwise I think it would be in your kid's best interest to
work on re-calibrating his schedule so he can be awake during the
day.
anon
I am surprised that no-one gave what to me is the obvious reply
- have the child take an afternoon nap!
All my kids were night owls in their teen years, some still are
as adults. I don't think that forcing them to go to bed works.
Even without a cell-phone or a computer they stay up. One likes
to read before falling asleep. One writes poetry in her
journal. One loves to paint and draw till 1 am! and one
composes music till all hours. I think it has to do with the
way the teenage brain develops, that their creativity bursts in
the wee hours.
In addition to healthy food (no sweets), I had them take
vitamins and minerals, plus fish-oil, to make sure their health
is supported. I explained about the importance of 8 hours of
sleep (out of 24)for their brain and body. The afternoon nap
did wonders for them.
If your rules accommodate their quirks, there's a better chance
that they will listen to you.
accommodating mom
This is an interesting podcast on parenting teens. One of the
speakers said that lights affect melatonin production, and even
bedtime texting can disrupt their sleep.
http://www.marinjcc.org/cjlpodcast/
mom of a tired teen
Feb 2008
We have a 14 yr old who can not self regulate to get 9+
hours of sleep each night. When younger bed time no
problem. Now, doesn't get to bed before 1:00AM. Averages
between 5-6 hours per night. Teen feels it is the only free
time they have. Stays up reading or sneaking the computer.
Have locked up computer but wonder if that really helps
teen to self regulate. Have any suggestions?
concerned parent
My advice is not to worry. Most teens only get 5 to 6 hours
a night of sleep anyway and then catch up on the weekends.
It's the same with many adults. When I was a teen I remember
staying up until 1 am listening to the radio (long before
there was an Internet) while doing homework, etc. Locking
the computer is probably a good idea.
Anon
August 2005
My 16-year-old daughter has had sleeping issues all of her life. She
has never been a good sleeper (and when I was pregnant with her I
also had trouble sleeping--the only time that has ever happened in my
life). It's gotten to the point that there are nights when she reports not
sleeping at all, just tossing and turning in bed endlessly. She seems
exhausted in the mornings, but rallies during the day, and by evening is
once again wide awake. She goes to school, does her homework, is
involved in activities, and otherwise leads a normal life, but I know she is
tired much of the time, and both she and we, her parents, are
concerned. Her pediatrician has heard our worries for many years, and
has given advice which has never helped much. At her last visit he
gave her a prescription for sleeping medication (can't remember the
name offhand, and I just took it in to the pharmacy to be filled). She's
hesitant, as are we, to go down this path, but feel powerless to do much
of anything else. She's tried all the usual remedies--keeping to a
routine, drinking warm milk, sleepytime tea, yoga, etc. She says she just
can't turn off her brain at night, and she is a very cerebral kid! Any
advice? I've thought of biofeedback, therapy, meditation, but have no
leads to pursue. Would welcome ideas from anyone who has been
there and found something that helps.
anonymous
I have no personal experience with sleep disorders, but reputedly
the best place in the country is in Stanford:
http://www.med.stanford.edu/school/psychiatry/coe/
''Stanford University Center of Excellence
for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Sleep Disorders''. Your
pediatrician can be expected not to know much about a special
area of medicine like that.
Good luck!
I had insomnia when I was a teen too. I didn't have any good
methods then, but now when I can't sleep, I meditate and it helps
alot. I would have her practice every day just breathing, eyes
closed in a quiet room, and focusing on the way the breath feels
coming out of and going into her body. It does take some
practice to keep your mind quiet but you get better at it with
practice. Then when she wants to go to sleep, she can meditate
herself to sleep - works for me right away every time.
anon
My daughter is 14 and was also having trouble falling asleep. I think it's a sign of
anxiety. I know that she also has many things on her mind. I have been thinking
about us learning meditation together, and want to encourage her to write out her
thoughts earlier, before bedtime. I have given her herbal remedies before with on
and off success. Some of those that might work for your daughter are: a
homoepathic remedy called ''calms forte''; valerian; a combo of tinctures of
passionflower, skullcap, & camomille. But I have to say the best thing that has
worked is when she has been VERY active during the day. She just started long-
distance running and has been falling alseep the minute her head hits the pillow! It's
wonderful! I hope it lasts!!
fingers-crossed mom
Just like your teenager I had problems turning of my brain. I
think it started during my teens and endend somewhere in my
twenties. What helped me was putting a pen and noteblock next to
my bed. Every time a though enterend my mind I would write it
down. Either to remember, I would toss and turn just because I
was afraid to forget something, or to get rid of things that
kept bothering me. Putting it on paper got it out of my system.
It is a simple solution and definetly worked for me. I wish I
had known it earlier. Hope it will help your daughter. Good luck
anon
I too have struggled with insomnia off and on my whole
life. I was very reluctant to try sleeping pills and waited
until I was in my late 40s to have a go. Boy, do I wish I'd
used them earlier! They're certainly not perfect, and have
to be used judiciously. I try to never use them more than
three nights in a row. However, when it's a choice between
lying awake in bed for hours and sleeping, sleeping is much,
much better, no question.
Also, has your daughter tried Melatonin? This also has to be
used with some care, but the timed-release seems to work
pretty well, though not on the worst nights. For that I use
the sleeping pills.
So, my advice is to go slowly and carefully, but use the pills
when they are needed and don't worry about it. Good luck.
Dianna
Try acupuncture! I had insomnia for MANY years and
acupuncture has cured me! Several other family members have
also been helped. We see Carla Cassler in Berkeley. She's
great--both of my kids have gone to her for years, and she's
terrific with teenagers.
No more sleepless nights
hi. I have struggled with insomnia for most of my life,
beginning in my early teens. I don't have much in the way of
advice only to add that I have come to the realization now at
the age of 29 that I just don't need as much sleep as everyone
else. I tried lots of things and I would stay away from drugs
as they do not give the same quality of sleep, they are
addictive, and when weaning yourself off of them the side
effect is insomnia, so in my case for one night of drug induced
4 hours sleep I was sleepless for the next 3 nights getting the
stuff out of my system. What works for me now is exercise
early in the morning, and using ear-plugs and an eye-pillow to
settle myself into sleep at night, and not watching any tv in
the evening to start my mind going. But I still don't sleep
much. If your daughter is have trouble with school or living
her life I would recommend seeing an accupuncturist, Pat Lollis
is the one I went to she's in Albany, at my worst accupuncture
was what worked for me. If she seems to do just fine on no
sleep, get her a hobby like knitting and let her know that in
college the ability to function with less sleep will come in
very handy during finals and even handier if she one day
decides to have children of her own...
sleepless but ok with it
When I read your e-mail it stuck a chord. As a child- and
sometimes still- I had trouble turning my brain off at night. My
mom tried this meditation type of exercise with me that worked
very well- none of the other stuff you mentioned worked for me
either. Basically I just have to close my eyes and imagine
everything from that day that is going on in my head, and then
push it out slowly while taking deep breaths (like elevator doors
opening onto nothingness). I've always imagined a blank white
screen. Whenever something tries to creep in, I just push it
back out- I can't let the thought get in to far or I have to
start over. My mom used to talk me through it in a very soothing
voice when I was young and it would sometimes take awhile, but
over time, I got much better at clearing my mind and making my
thoughts stop. I empathize and wish you luck.- oh one other
mediatation trick that I picked up is to ask yourself ''why can't
I sleep?'' and then follow the chain of questions and answers
until you feel you have come to a concrete answer that can
hopefully be acted upon- for ex. can't sleep b/c I didn't
apologize for ...- I'll get out of bed and write a letter. It
just feels good to take control and sometimes that one action
will make me feel that I did something and the rest can wait till
tomorrow. Sorry this was longwinded- good luck.
anon
I would suggest you look into Calms Forte. You can buy it over the counter at Whole
Foods and similar places. This is what I have recently found to be extraordinarily
effective for my own insomnia. I have exactly the same problem as your daughter - I
can't turn my brain off at night! Calms Forte has, surprisingly to me actually, worked
wonders for me. Your daughter's mileage may vary. Might be worth a try. Good luck!
sleeping MUCH better now :-)
November 2001
I would like to get some feedback and perspective from parents.
I have an ongoing concern about sleep deprivation among our teens and how it
is impacting their health as well as their performance in school, and would
like to get some feedback and perspective from other parents.
Part of the problem is the starting time of many Bay Area high schools, and
the scheduling of difficult classes first thing in the morning. Albany High
starts at 7:40 am, and many of the more advanced classes which have only one
section, such as math, are offered at that hour. These classes require a lot
of concentration, at an hour when most teens are still waking up.
Studies have shown that teen's biological clocks shift during puberty, and
not only do they need more sleep, but they naturally stay up longer and need
to sleep longer. Their brains don't start functioning at peak until later in
the morning, around 8:30 or 9:00 am. Sleep deprivation amongst our teens is
brought on by the multitude of responsibilities they have and by their own
natural sleep cycle, which may be impairing their ability of learn and retain
information.
Our high school students are trying to balance their school work in multiple
subjects, along with part-time jobs, practice in sports or an arts activity
that often goes late into the evening. Our daughter, who is in 11th grade at
Albany High, cannot get to her homework until 7 or 8 pm, and works until
midnight or 1 am, because the homework load is so heavy. She is seriously
tired when she gets up at 6:40 am to get to a 7:40 am class. And this
tiredness is cumulative, as sleep deprivation builds up and eventually makes
her sick and have to miss school.
I find this kind of scheduling and pressure unhealthy for our kids, and would
welcome your comments.
Eileen
Hi Eileen!
I must agree with your assessment that school starting times, scheduling of
difficult classes, and teen biological clocks are all in opposition to one
another. My teen (age 17, would be a senior this year) suffered from it
exactly as you describe. The early start hour is silly, given that time is
available after school, when many teens are just hanging out and getting
into trouble (I know she was!). For those who complain that
extracurricular activities must happen then, my question is "why"? What
reason can be given not to put at least some of the extracurricular
activities into the morning slot instead? I clearly remember school
starting at 9am at my HS in San Jose in the late 70's--and just as clearly
remember playing in the orchestra at 8am. It was tough, and I didn't choose
to do it every year. At least that way, the *academic* subjects would be
taught during the time of the students' peak performance. Presumably,
that's what school is about anyway, right? We seemed to do just fine
starting our extracurricular activites at 3:30 or 4pm each day--why can't
they do that now?
Regarding scheduling of hard classes into the morning--I have NO idea why
this is done, but it's a bad idea. This happened to my daughter. Her
required, difficult, math class was scheduled ONLY at 8am. She is NOT a
morning person. Neither are we. The class was a disaster from the start.
Despite my pleadings with both her and her counselor that she delay the
class to another semester and time, she went ahead and took it. She
failed, and the failure in that class caused her to lose confidence, give
up, and subsequently fail in every other class, and eventually she
attempted suicide over being such a "failure." Rather than have this happen
again, we chose to remove her from the school system altogether, and
"un-school" her (like homeschooling, but more directed by the student).
This is a radical solution, but appears to be one of the few solutions
available when no one is listening to the fact that these early hours DO
NOT WORK for teens.
BTW: Since she has been unschooling, she's done just fine on a schedule
that has her going to sleep at midnight, and leaving for work/classes
around 11 am. She's happy, productive, learning lots, and wonderful to be
around. An utter contrast from her former tired, cranky, unmotivated self.
Good luck convincing the powers that be to change things!
Sincerely,
Dawn
I agree with you that sleep deprivation in teens is a big problem that
receives little acknowledgement. From a WebMD summary of the problem at
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.60579
"Studies show that while fifth and sixth graders can be wide awake all
day after about nine hours' sleep, teenagers need 10 hours to be alert
all day long, says Richard D. Simon, Jr., MD, medical director of the
Kathryn Severyns Dement Sleep Disorder Center in Walla Walla, WashSimon.
"The average teenager gets about six hours' sleep, so he's
sleep-depriving himself completely," he says. Other researchers put the
necessary amount of sleep for teens at about 9 hours and 15 minutes a
night. ... In addition, high-school-age children appear to undergo a
shift in their biological 'body clock,' which tells them when to rise
and go to bed, he says: "There's some evidence that teenagers'
biological clock may be programmed to start turning off later at night
and turn on later in morning." According to the National Sleep
Foundation report, studies have shown that the typical high school
student's natural bedtime is 11 p.m. or later."
So an 11pm bedtime, pretty reasonable for teens with homework and
after school activities, means that your teen should be sleeping till
8:30 or 9 in the morning, which is impossible for most high schools.
Allowing an hour for the teen to have a shower and eat breakfast and
wait for the bus, we're looking at an arrival time 10am or so. I think
what happens instead is they are forced to get up too early, fall asleep
during class, walk through the day like a zombie, and try to catch up
on the weekends.
I'm not too optimistic about the schools figuring this problem out in
the next 20 years. After all they still think all families have a
mommy at home to greet kids at 3pm every day. There are alternatives
though. My son just started this year at Berkeley High Independent
Study. The jury is still out on whether this change will address his
academic "issues". But one huge benefit of BIS is that my night owl
son has been able to arrange his schedule so that he can sleep in most
mornings. The combination of more sleep and more control over his
schedule has really made a big difference in his day-to-day demeanor
and in our relationship too.
Ginger
My feeling is that we have schools organized backwards. The academics
should start at 10:30 or 11:00 am and run through until 5:00pm, and
all the extracurricular activities and sports should start early in
the morning. That way, the kids who are not interested in those
things don't have to be to school until later, when their minds and
bodies are awake. In addition, for those kids who are interested in
the extracurricular activities, I'm sure it's easier to do those
activities rather than academics early in the morning.
Martina
I have no doubt that a regular lack of sleep contributes to a myriad
of vulnerabilities in young people which can cause emotional strain
leading to physical illness or mental deterioration. I know for
myself (a middle-aged single Mom) that sleep deprivation on an ongoing
basis contributes to the aging process and certainly influences how
present I can be in interpersonal communication or in basic functions
such as driving and cooking. Children and adolescents (ages 10-18)
are resilient, but over time a lack of sleep robs them of being
present in their lives and handicaps their ability to receive and
process the world around them. I would imagine continued lack of rest
can impair decision-making ability and the receptivity of brain cells
for learning. I have a seventh grader who is a conscientious student
and has been educated through sixth grade in a Montessori environment.
He is self-motivated, interested in learning, quite expressive when
engaged in a conversation geared to his level, and active in sports
and music. This year the time dedicated to homework (in a more
conventional school setting) has probably quadrupled. My biggest
questions are "Does this amount of homework contribute to the
education of my son?" and "Is the loss of sleep resulting from staying
up late to finish homework detrimental to his health and upsetting a
balance in life that makes for a vibrant, caring, creative, and
self-reflective human being?"
The patterns of discipline and study that are set in middle school are
"in most cases" the ones that will carry students through high school
and college. So teaching good study habits and time management are
important skills for later in life. I also think that broadening the
base of knowledge in specific subjects is also a postive achievement
in middle school. HOWEVER, is there a danger that we are also
teaching our children to become "workaholics" or something less
negative "do-aholics" by virtue of the fact that we keep them so busy
with exercises for the mind?
I question just how wise our culture is in stressing the acquisition
of knowledge as a vehicle for self-fulfillment and social success
without a complementary emphasis on the cultivation of wisdom. Have
we not forgotten to tend to the spirit and introduce qualities and
practices that are meant to open our young people to the possibility
of wisdom arising from silence and quiet reflection?
I have many more questions than answers; however, this culture seems
to have many more answers than questions. The problem arises when
questions are no longer encouraged, discussion is had for the sake of
hearing oneself and others talk, and political discourse is used to
condone the righteousness of one group's values. Wisdom is concealed
by efforts at pleasant social intercourse, or worse yet by efforts to
establish one point of view as superior to another. I do question the
wisdom of excessive homework (busywork) at a time in the world's
evolution that calls for a grand leap of understanding of what it is
to be an evolving human being?
I hope I stayed close enought to the topic, Eileen. I am wrestling
with questions that arise from living with an emerging adolescent and
the changes that come with all that, including homework and
scheduling.
Suzanne
I would like to chime in regarding sleep deprivation among children and
teens. I notice a dramatic difference in my 15 yr old son's ability to cope
with school, peers, family, the world when he gets enough sleep -- which for
him is 9 to 9 1/2 hours every night. So until school starts later, he is in
bed no later than 10 pm, and usually by 9:30. (and if homework isn't done he
has to do lots of catchup on the weekend)
I think it would be useful if there were a variety of schedules to accomodate
the various internal clocks the kids (hey and teachers too) have. But don't
forget -- if your kid stays up to 11 pm to do homework now when he or she is
getting out of school at 2:45-- would you really be happy with him or her
staying up till 1 am or later to get the same amount of work done because
school didn't end until 5 pm? Maybe we are just allowing our kids to do too
much (school plus sports plus jobs...)
Bedtime Rules and Wake-Up Rules
Feb 2011
My son is having a real hard time getting out of bed in
the morning. He goes to bed pretty early 9:30 pm or 10 pm the
latest. I was told to get up early because it takes a long
time for the teen to really awaken his/her senses...but is it
necessary to wake him more than one hour before he is supposed
to go? He had learning disabilities and attentional/focus
issues and may be experiencing mild to moderate anxiety
because parents recently decided to separate temporarily. He
is seeing a mentor/therapist who is skilled in dealing with
teens.
I am using clear water misting from a water spray bottle, but
he is not a plant. I turn the heat and the lights on full
blast.
Penny for your thoughts, recommendations, suggestions....
my eldest teen found it very hard waking up (she would sleep
through alarms), so we started serving her and her sister
breakfast on a tray in their beds. it felt more effective than
repeatedly visiting her bedroom and asking her to wake up. it
does feel indulgent, but my approach was simply to do what
worked to get her feed and to school. she is now thriving at
university. my girls appreciate the luxury of breakfast in bed
and while you are hovering over them with the tray, they do
roll over and sit up (immediately). i take pride in serving a
delicious breakfast (this morning toasted bagel with peanut
butter, fresh sliced strawberries and apple juice). you could
also ask your son what he would like for breakfast, even taking
him shopping to pick items, to encourage compliance. my
youngest likes a little quite time in the morning to wake up
and get ready. she sometimes reads on her bed before she needs
to leave for school. good luck.
judith
By FAR the best way to get my teen son going in the morning is for
me to walk into his room, ask him what he wants for breakfast, make
it, and bring it into his room. I swear, once he's eaten something,
the beast in him is gone! Before I found this out, we had way too
many shouting matching about 'GETTING UP' and out to school. And
the funny thing is, he never said he was hungry! Just my
experience.
Happier
March 2010
I am a single mother, and my son (15) and I have had what always
seemed to be a happy home life, and done a lot of harmonious traveling
together. But I've also been concerned over the years that he seemed
awfully tired--as if he were oversensitive to Life or something.
Recently I've been learning that for the last five years or more, he
has been politely saying good night... and then spending three hours
or more doing other things, until as late as 1:30 a.m.--reading,
exercising and more recently, being with friends on his iPod. 1. I
know these are not comparatively bad things to do, 2. I know he needs
alone time and space for himself to do things separately from me. I am
very active and appreciate his independence. But A. I am really
shocked by the lying, and for so long, and B. I have no idea how to
impress on him the need for sleep. (C. His doing all this in the
adjacent room also explains my own restless sleep?) He seems to be
telling me that he started lying about it out of a sense of adventure
and wanting privacy, and then couldn't stop. ??? But we've talked
about it very nicely and then he's lied some more. Help me get a
handle on all this?
Kind of Stunned About This
Okay so your son was relaxing at night doing things that teenagers
normally do. Did he really have to tell you what he was doing? He
wasn't breaking any laws, smoking dope, or drinking. He was just doing
the typical things that teenagers do. I agree with you he should get a
little more sleep but then again how much sleep do teenagers really
get? When I was a kid, I was up to 1 am reading, writing, listening to
the radio, etc. This was long before we had desktop computers. I don't
remember telling my parents what I was up to or them asking me.
My advice is for you to let go. We can't control our kids and if we
try, they will rebel and get into all sorts of acting out behavior
much worse than the normal activities your son is doing. Maybe you can
say gee I'm concerned you're not getting enough sleep. However, don't
expect much to change.
If this is unbearable for you, I would then advise you look into
getting some counseling for yourself. It's hard to let go of our kids,
but it's necessary for their growth and ours.
Anon
I agree with the previous poster who said that teens need a private
life. I also think it's not really appropriate to have a bedtime for
teens.
However, if his lack of sleep is having bad effects on his behavior
then I do think you have the right and obligation to step in and help
teach him to manage his time.
So if he is grouchy/rude in the am, late to school, not doing am
chores, skipping after school activities, or if his grades are
slipping, then on nights before school days, when you go to bed, take
his phone and the power cord from the computer(s) into your bedroom!
(be sure to turn off the phone so you don't get woken up...)
Return them in the morning when you get up.
When the behavior improves (which may mean waiting till next report
card, or you can check with teachers), give him another chance.
Repeat as needed!
best wishes
Jan 2010
With our daughter now in 6th grade, it seems like all of a sudden, an enforced bedtime is no
longer working. I am wondering what others do about bedtimes, enforcing it (if you do), and
how these things change from elementary school to middle school. Our daughter does not
handle being tired very well - she loses it easily. At the same time, she sometimes does OK
when she's gone to bed later than I feel is right, so I wonder if this is one of those things that
I just have to loosen up with and go with the flow. My husband believes in being flexible as
long as she is able to handle things in a reasonable manner. Oh yes - she's pulling straight
A's in school and doesn't stay up late watching TV/playing video games. It's reading. It's silly
to get upset about her reading (I LOVE that she is a voracious reader, of course!) - I'm just
concerned about her getting enough sleep and am concerned that I am making too big a deal
of this. I know - pick your battles. :-)
daughter is growing up
I've been through this with my 3 - now 12, 15, 17 years old. Starting middle school
- if
they and you can handle it, and you'll know - give them a later bedtime, say during
non-
school nights first (Fridays-Saturdays, provided there's nothing going on early the
next
day!). You can also relax your times during special occasions like holidays when
there's no
school. Give them anywhere from 1/2 -1 hour beyond their previous bedtime hour (this
depends on what she's currently used to ). My kids still fight the 'lights out' time
occasionally, and the next day admit to wishing they had more time to sleep. My 7th
grader is allowed to stay up later once a week to watch Mythbusters, provided he's
got his
schoolwork done. Make it conditional - it needs to be cool with your expectations
(schoolwork is done, grades are acceptable, no behavior issues, reasonable reasons
for
wanting to stay up later...). It's a time for adjustment, so don't worry about the
fine-
tuning you'll do. While they may think they can handle changes, you've already
experienced how mercurial the results are. They still need lots of sleep, but also
should
be able to handle a little bit more. Remember, you are the one who can extend as
well as
retract those extra minutes!
Norma A.
I have to chuckle, re the teen bedtimes. it seems like so many
parents here just let the kids decide...I just keep thinking of how
their frontal lobes aren't developed until they are 18, I think it
is, and how we have to be their frontal lobes. My Middle Schooler
would stay up late as well reading (I am very very strict on TV etc.
here), but she isn't allowed. I tell her: you will go to bed
earlier and earlier, until we find a time when you can wake up well
at 7 AM to make it on time for music class. Her bedtime is quite
early (8:30!!) and she complains that other kids get to stay up til
midnight. Midnight????? I was eighteen I think before I regularly
stayed up til midnight! New studies just came out how depression is
related to not enough sleep, and they need more rest then any other
age group. Letting Middle Schoolers choose their own bedtime?
certainly not in my house.
Call me Old Fashioned
I think 'tweens still need to have some parental control exerted over
them on arbitrary things, e.g. bedtime, so you still have some
control over them when they're teens. Also, while 'tweens have more
sense than your average toddler, they still don't have all that much,
especially when they get into power struggles with their parents.
Bedtime can and should be negotiated reasonably, recognizing their
growing ability and need to decide things for themselves (i.e.,
avoiding a power struggle). Once a bedtime regime has been negotiated,
you can feel free to encourage your kid to keep to it.
John K
Our kids (now both 13 and in the 7th grade) still have an enforced
bedtime of 9:00 PM. Our daughter needs 9-10 hours of sleep. Our son
doesn't need as much. He occasionally gets up early and reads before
the rest of us get up (we don't allow TV or video games before
breakfast! :) )
They have to get up at 6:30 on weekdays to get ready for school
(their middle school starts at 7:50 AM).
If they have a lot of studying to do and have an afternoon activity
like sports, then sometimes they go to bed around 9:30 PM. But we
limit ''media'' time (TV or video games) to 30 minutes after school,
so they normally have sufficient time to study before dinner.
If they really aren't sleepy, we still have them go to bed and read
for 15 minutes or so then it is lights out.
When they were younger, 8:30 was bedtime. When they are in high
school, We're expecting it to go to 10:00 PM since they go to school
later and will have more homework.
We don't like grumpy kids :)
August 2003
I'm curious what other parents out there do about bedtime for 12-
year olds. The particular girl in question would love to stay
up late and get up late. For school days, obviously, this can't
be too late, even though I think school won't start until 8:30
or 9am this year. I have problems knowing what's acceptable,
because my natural rhythm is to go to bed early and get up
early. I love morning, and I know that's not ''normal''.
So, how late do people out there let their 12-year olds stay up
on weekdays and on weekends? Help!
-early bird parenting a night owl
We try to have lights out for my 12 yr old step-son at 9/9:15pm.
He gets up at 7:45 or 8am to leave the house at 8:30am (school
starts at 8:50am). He too would like to push his bed time later,
but we realize that some of that is a pre-teen power trip. He is
constantly pushing boundries. We are quite adament about getting
to bed at the same time as the routine is still good for him at
this age. Also, since his Dad and I have to get up early and we
like to have some time w/out the kids in the evening. To help in
transition into sleep mode he gets to read in bed for a half-
hour or so. On the weekends he gets to stay up to 10pm at the
most. Any later than that we are dealing w/ a cranky kid all
day. No thanks.
anon
Our soon to be 12-yr-old has a hard time falling asleep. I
think he's just a night owl. He goes to bed between 10 and
10:30 weekends and weeknights. Weekends he gets to sleep in,
but weekdays, he only gets 8 hours of sleep a night. We have
tried getting him to bed earlier but he truly can't fall asleep
until around 10:30PM.
hope this helps
Everyone we have spoken with about this tells us that a pre-
teen/teen's ''clock'' gets set back so that it is natural for them
to go to bed later and wake up later. Unfortunately, they still
need to go to school, camp etc. We let ours stay up later on
Friday and Saturday nights(sometimes even to 11:30) and sleep
in. That seems to tire them out a bit, and by Sunday night they
are ready to fall asleep around 10:00-10:30 PM (they have to
wake up at 7:30 AM). They seem to do well on this schedule,
which is good, because we have never succeeeded in getting them
to fall asleep earlier, even if they are in bed earlier with
lights out.
- parent of night owls
I have a 12 yr. old boy and on the w/e's I let him pretty much
stay up and watch a couple movies we have rented. I do come out
(he stays in the living room during those nights) and have to
turn the DVD player/stereo/TV off after he has fallen asleep,
but my husband gets up around 4 a.m. so it's not any hassle.
I'd say my son goes to sleep probably around 1 a.m. This is
only during the summer or on Fri. eve's. We have to get up
pretty early on Sun's so Sat. eve. we limit the movie to one
with the other two kids we have. It also allows my husband and
I to have our own time. During school time he goes to bed no
later than 9 p.m. mostly because I have 2 other kids to get up
and get ready. And he can ready himself, I wake him up the
last.
pandm
While it will depend on homework load and any afterschool
activities, in room at 9pm (to read or draw or something quiet)
and lights off by 10pm should be reasonable. Adjust these times
if she is having a hard time getting up in the morning or taking
too long to fall asleep at night.
LC
May 2007
A friend with 2 teenagers told me that she doesn't let her
kids sleep past 10am on the weekends - too much 'sleeping
away the day' or something. I've always let my (teenage)
kids sleep until they wake up on the weekends - I figure
they get up early every weekday, their bodies must need the
rest. But now that she mentioned it, I wondered if it's a
good idea. What do you think?
wake up call?
If her schedule permits (she often has commitments), we let
our 15-year-old sleep in until her body tells her she's had
enough. Everyone needs recharging. The only caveat: a
reasonable bedtime (11-11:30) even on weekends, so that her
system doesn't go too much out of sync.
Mom
Oh for crying out loud, let your kids sleep!!! Studies from
NIMH and others suggest that the school schedules of our
kids, versus their natural sleep needs are so whacked out
it's no wonder they can't focus in school. Let them sleep.
Let them get a good night's sleep, if only on weekends. Let
them do what you would do if you were relentlessly asked to
perform. Just Let Them Sleep. They'll get up and they'll be
healthy for it -- when they're ready.
Wish I'd been able to sleep in!
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