Berkeley Parents Network: Teens and Night Clubs

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Teens and Night Clubs

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High school freshman wants to go to an all ages club in SF
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High school freshman wants to go to an all ages club in SF

May 2007

My high school freshman daughter feels I'm the last parent alive who has misgivings about this sort of situation: She and a friend would like to take BART from the East Bay to the SF Mission District(after dark), go to hear live music at an all ages club (which serves alcohol to those 21 & up), then spend the night with the friend's relative (who I haven't met) and then head back home the next day on BART after going to visit other SF friends. I have concerns about her possibly having to deal with older folks who've been drinking in the club, not knowing the young adult who they'd be staying with, etc. She's a smart and common-sense-endowed kid.

What are the thoughts on this in your households? At what age do you feel this is appropriate?

Trying to figure out the balance in life...

I too have a high school freshman girl. I too would have great concerns about the situation you are describing. I would not allow my daughter to take Bart after dark alone. She takes Bart often during the day, with friends or alone, as she is going to the Jewish High School in Sf, and we live in Oakland. But not alone, after dark. Too risky. Secondly, this is a club with alcohol. I believe this is not a good idea for a 15/16 year old. They may not be able to buy the alcohol, but I wouldn't want my daughter in that atmosphere. And lastly, I would never allow my daughter to sleep over anywhere, unless I know the parents..enough to have an idea of what kind of parents they are...do they allow boys in closed rooms with lights off? Do they allow alcohol to be served? Do they tend to be ''away'' when their kids have friends over, or do they stick around and supervise? And by the way, I always ask my daughter to call me when she gets to her destination and I ask to speak with the parents wherever she is staying. Otherwise, she could tell me they are home, but how would I know? My daughter doesn't usually lie..but I like to be sure!!This may all sound strict to a 15 year old girl, but I think it's wise and safe. Protective Mom!

BART to San Francisco, to go to a club where some of the people will be drinking, then going home to a place where her parents won't know whether she's sober or not? No way. Why allow that? She can do it after she's 18.

My kids know that we'll have very little control over how they spend their time...once they're in college. Your daughter still has another 3 years of high school!

If her friends have parents who think this is reasonable... maybe she needs new friends... or maybe her friends need new parents.

Please don't fall for the ''everybody else gets to...'' line... Everybody else doesn't get to do this as a high school student, and its insulting that she thinks you believe that. No Way, and I don't feel Guilty about It.

You are not the last parent alive who would have misgivings about an SF Club. I have two daughters and when they were freshman in high school I would not have let either of the go in that situation, but I might negiotiate with them. I might volunteer that I would drive them to and from the club (yeah I hated the late hour driving but it was worth gaining their trust and knowing they were safe) but that I would only do the late night driving once a year or once a month or whatever worked for my life at the time. They had to go to a late night event with a parent driving, period. I definitely set ground rules and worked to find a way of compromising so the adventure could happen with some oversight by a parent. If the child didn't follow the ground rules,no more trips to clubs or late night outings. I made the ground rules about safety not about control. And I would never let a freshman in high school stay with someone I had not at least talked to on the phone. Call me old fashion but my kids ended up in excellent universities and did have fun along the way but within limits. And as they got older the limits got to be less and less. anonymous

No. Absolutely not. You can not allow your daughter to go. Never mind the fact that you don't know the relative. A club that serves alcohol? That's completely inappropriate for her age. The Mission after dark? Even during the day, it can be dangerous. There are lots of drugs being used in these clubs. It's not a place for teenagers. What she wants to do is for adults. You can not let her go. I would put my foot down on this one and don't budge. Nothing to Debate About Here

Count me among the dinosaur moms. There's NO WAY one of my girls would be allowed to do this in high school. I won't even enumerate the reasons. You know why - and your daughter does, too, deep inside. Stand your ground. mother of two sophomore girls (college and h.s.)

You are not the last parent alive who would not be OK with this. I'm right there with you. My daughter is a year younger, but here's what I might allow in another year. Let her to BART into the city, but I would pick her up from the club and bring her home myself. No matter how smart and how much common sense she has, you don't know the other people involved, and you have no way to know what is really happening- where they are going, staying, with whom, etc... She is still too young for that much freedom. Trust your instincts. in favor of limits

I read your post to my daughter - BHS '96. She graduated from Cal and now lives in SF. Here is her response: All-ages clubs were wierd. I think I went to one or two. They attracted a lot of sketchy guys who knew there would be young girls there. She is 14 years old! She may not want to/plan to drink, but lots of other people there certainly will be. And I may sound like a 'fraidy cat, but I generally don't mess with the Mission unless I'm with a group of people and we have a predetermined, normal destination like a restaurant or bar. Do I sound like the world's youngest fuddy duddy? But there's no way I'd let my freshman daughter do that plan. Nope. Even BART after dark has it's own issues. I'd sooner buy my 14 year old a case of beer and have her invite her friends over to the house than let her loose on BART and in the Mission. I just think that she could be the smartest kid in the world, but go to the places where the bad guys lurk and you're asking for trouble. Feel free to forward my opinion back to that parent... vicki s.

You are not the last parent alive who has misgivings about this sort of situation. I would not allow my daughter, as a freshman, to go with a friend on BART from the East Bay to SF (after dark) to go hear live music at an all ages club. You are absolutely right to have concerns about her possibly having to deal with older folks who've been drinking in the club, not knowing the young adult who they'd be staying with, etc. She's a smart and common-sense-endowed KID - and kids are vulnerable, especially girls. I would recommend small steps toward this level of outing -- has she taken BART with a friend to the city during the day and back? Has she taken public trans w. a friend in the evening near home to a movie and back? Have you taken her on BART to the city, to a show, where you're with her walking along Market dealing with the nighttime street scene? You need to feel secure with the intermediate steps before you go on to the big ones, and you can tell her that. My daughter will be 16 next month, and I would say ''absolutely not'' if she proposed this outing, particularly because of the all-ages-club and the staying-with-an-unknown-adult aspects. Go with your parental instincts:to date they've obviously been very reliable since you have a smart, common-sense endowed daughter who is honest with you. In 3= years she may be leaving home and doing lots of things like this, and these 3= years are your chance to gradually get comfortable with that reality, so do it in stages. It worked with my son who is now at UCLA. You're smart to check with others when you're in doubt, but I say you are right to withhold your permission on this outing. Maybe they can modify it for your comfort. Another Parent Who Cares

I have two sons who are 21 and 24 who go to clubs in SF w/friends on a regular basis. They both occasionally went to clubs to hear music in high school but there were constraints. I wouldn't have let them do what your daughter is proposing. I see this as two separate problems: 1) going to a club at night in SF and 2) staying overnight at the home of someone that you don't know.

Going to a club: I let mine go to Gilman or iMusicast when they were your daughter's age and even a bit younger. These clubs are local, no alcohol is served, the age group tends to be under 21, and I picked them up afterwards. When they were 16/17, they went a couple times to hear music in the city, but a parent drove both ways, or they Barted over and got picked up afterwards by a parent. I think a first-time trip to the City at night for 14/15-year-old's is iffy. My 24-y-o says that ''all ages'' clubs tend to attract younger kids under 21 (he avoids them because of this). They check ID's at the door and give wristbands to over-21's, so assuming there are no fake IDs involved, your daughter would not be able to get alcohol. However, when my kids were at Berkeley High, fake IDs were fairly easy to get, so keep that in mind. There may also be older kids that you don't know involved in the outing. Also, my kids at 18 and 19 got lost in the City several times on the way to and from the Bart station. Once they failed to get to Bart before it closed for the night. I also hear stories from my 24-y-o about not wearing certain colors in the Mission, not making eye contact, dealing with ''crackheads'', and other dicey situations. Can your daughter handle unexpected events? I'm not saying this should deter a trip to the City for a responsible young person to enjoy music or theater, but I'm saying that a 14-year-old may be unprepared to deal with it.

As for sleeping over: no way. If it's someone you know, and that you have talked to, and that you trust, fine. But a sleepover at the home of an unknown person has all kinds of possibilities. Could be a relative who won't be home that night, could be an older teen who has their own place, could be one of those deals where your daughter tells you she's at Tiffany's, and Tiffany tells her mom she's at your place. They all have cell phones, so who will know? After my kids graduated high school, I sometimes woke up on Sunday morning to find kids sleeping on my sofa. I did my best to make sure these were not high school kids, and that their parents knew where they were. I preferred them to be at my house where they were safe than someplace where they weren't. But sometimes I didn't know them, and I had no way of knowing where they had been before they wound up on my sofa. They could have been high school freshmen or sophomores who told their parents they were staying at a friend's house. It's really better for everyone if you take charge of overnights and sleepovers until your daughter is 18.

I think it's good for teens to be ready for independence before they are 18 by having some experiences they don;t quite know how to deal with, but they need boundaries too. - Mom who somehow made it thru the teens

No way would I go for this plan. I've got a 16yr old hs sophmore son, who has to date demonstrated responsible behavior and I still wouldn't go for it. The part I didn't like was the overnight plan. Too many unknowns for my comfort. I would however, and have, allowed my son to go to clubs in the city, but there has always been a parent pick up from the club (no BART returns) and a return home that night. i wouldn't allow it

First off, please, please be assured that you are not the only parent, or the last remaining parent, who has questions and doubts about how to handle a situation with your daughter. The very existence of this website speaks to the questions and concerns that we all have about ourselves and our children and how to parent them. So with your permission, I'll share my opinion.

No, your daughter should not be allowed to go to SF at night without an adult chaperone, spend the night at the home of unknown people and then visit around the city without your supervision. She is too young and there are too many random possibilities for a problem to occur. This has nothing to do with your daughter's maturity, trustworthiness, clear headedness etc. The problem lies in what I call the ''random nature of the universe'' - where kids (and adults) find themselves in situations which they do not have the experience or equipment to handle.

My first advice to you if to follow your gut feelings and your own sense of what limits you are comfortable with. Do think through your limits, and understand what things make you uncomfortable or concerned - and what does not. Then see if there is a way to support your daughter's desires. In this instance for example, can you take her to the club, listen to the show, take her home? Can you give her a ride to visit the friends in the city, go shopping, visit your own friend and meet up later? This is a perfect opportunity to talk with your daughter, and begin to develop a more collaborative relationship with her. My husband and I took our now junior daughter and her friends to many performances in the city freshman and sophomore years-found seats in the back: most venues have seating in the back somewhere, took earplugs, and then gave rides home. It worked pretty well, the performances weren't as bad as we thought, and it gave us a better understanding our our daughter and her friends.

There is an inborn conflict here between your need to keep your child safe (one of the primary duties of a parent), and her need to expand her universe. We have to find a way to balance those unmeeting needs so that they can stretch and explore while we learn to give up control. By figuring out what the core concern is in each situation, you open up the possibilities for a resolution. I think you need to keep up a continuous dialogue with your daughter about why each decision is made, and look for ways to compromise. GIving her a ride is just one solution.

As she gains more experience and maturity, you can let her have more adventures without you present, but only as you determine that you are comfortable with her maturity and responsibility. As she sees that you are willing to listen,think, evaluate and communicate, you'll build the basis for communication if or when more complex issues arise.

So - yes - rely on your values, opnions and common sense. Just be willing to analyze your feelings, to find the core of the concern and address that. There is often a way for both of you to get what you want. Carolyn

You are not the last parent alive who would be anxious with letting thier HS age daughter go out to a club in the city... there are at least two of us! 8-)

My daughter is a responsible & smart sophmore and I still will not let her go out to the city past 8:00, nor will I allow her to go to a club that serves alcohol or spend the night ANYWHERE if I have not spoken to the adult in the house. I would be quite concerned about letting her go stay at someones house that I did not know. Can you talk to her friends parents about this relative?? How will they get home from the club?

My feeling is that if you have worries, and she is being honest about the plan, then you should be able to double check with the ADULTS involved, as the main thing is to make sure your daughter is in a safe environment.

I ask LOTS of questions when my daughter comes to me with a plan to go out and a lot of the time she has not clearly thought thru all of the plans and if I am not comfortable with the plan - or lack there of - I will tell her no. I got in to a lot of trouble in SF when I was in high school, and most of the time it was when I was hanging out with older people.

Best of luck to you & your daughter! Gina

I didn't let my daughter go to one of these clubs until she was a senior. She was with a group of 3 other girls celebrating her friends 18th birthday. The club she went to was south of Market and I was very wary. She said it was very crowded, the guys were ''creepy'', and she hasn't gone back since. jenny

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