17-year-old, addicted to pot, is hearing voices

does anyone know about ''hearing voices?'' i have a 17 yr old who is about to be evaluated. he is addicted to pot, i believe is ''self medicating'' with. i have heard pot causes psychosis in some people. he is an inteligent kid, who went downhill fairly quickly. he laughs when there seems to be nothing funny, he seems to be more in his own world. has trouble sleeping at night, sleeps all day. could not get him up to go to school. almost totally unmotivated to do anything. thanks for any insight. anon

hearing voices is a sign of psychosis. i worry that there is something going on that is more than a bad reaction to pot. one possibility is that he is using more than weed; kids who are high can be way out there. (and there is a scary range of possible substances; all manner of street drugs, and even abuse of over the counter cold medications.) another possibility is mental illness -- some of the major mental illnesses tend to kick in between the late teens and early 20's.

this will be hard to sort out unless he is clean. you may want to consider talking with an educational consultant, such as bodin associates. they can help evaluate drug and mental health issues, as well as educational problems and programs to address all these spheres. and, help the family recover -- for kids under 18, the programs work hard to involve the family in the healing process. after 18, the kids are legal adults and it is MUCH harder to find solutions.

my son didn't hear voices, but he had huge behavioral and academic problems, and suddenly went from being the intelligent, sweet, shy boy we knew to acting like a monster. after family therapy and a new school didn't work, we tried thunder mountain, a teen rehab [substance] program in oakland. after he failed the rehab aftercare program rather spectacularly, we used bodin associates to find therapeutic programs for our son. i am convinced that the steps we took saved his life; it was that bad.

i strongly encourage you to act now. it all changes after they are 18; you no longer have the same options. [although, kids who get into a program before 18 have a better chance of continuing after. it is just that you can't make it happen any more once they are adults.]

take care. more kids end up with these hugely challenging problems than you would think. take care. another mom

My daughter used to hear voices when she was much littler, she has grown out of it, but she went through a lot of therapy. We talked about them being her own inner voice, and even though they were saying scary things to her sometimes, I found that they were mostly telling the truth and she needed to learn to trust her inner voice. Sounds like your son might be going through something different and with the pot mixed in there, sounds complicated. Maybe he needs rehab of some sort. Get it started before he's 18 because after that he's on his own and you don't have control over what he does or doesn't do legally. I have a friend whose son was also addicted to pot, she sent him to a school in Montana and it really straightened him up. He was also diagnosed with dyslexia which made school that much harder to deal with. He's doing well now as a young adult. He's a ski instructor in Vermont, has a nice girlfriend, and is happy now. There is light at the end of the tunnel, just might be a little while til you feel like it's NOT the light of an oncoming train! good luck!

(1) Get an appointment at your health care provider's mental health clinic. Note, if you have Kaiser, absolutely go straight to their mental health unit and avoid their scheduled evaluations at the teen clinics. (They are a scheduling disaster.)

(2) Look for signs of abuse of other drugs. Highly recommend searching through room, through car, through all personal possessions. Check small containers without labels. Collect anything that looks like a medication, with or without labels. (Pay special notice to Robitussin, either in gel cap form or as a liquid. It looks innocuous, but this is a highly abused drug that kids can buy over the counter. www.dxmstories.com)

(3) Who is your son hanging out with? All schools have their toxic teens. If you have a gut feeling about a kid, trust that feeling and do not believe your kids stories about them being OK. Start the process of intervening between your son and that kid. Also, talk to that kid's parents directly about any concerns. Ask them if their son/daughter smokes pot. Ask them if they, the parents, are providing it through a medical marijuana prescription.

(4) Do not do this on your own. Get help at the institution in your life that you really trust. That may be, or not be your son's school. Health care provider may be good. Church might be iffy, if it holds extreme tenets. You can call Alcoholics Anonymous, and they know groups that can handle the issue if its drugs for teens. (They are also good at picking up the phone right away 24 hours a day.)

(5) Has the following happened to you, while you were with your son? You are at home, or some other quiet place, and doing ordinary activities. Your son turns to you and asks, ''Mom(/dad), did you hear that?'' Just out of no where, for no reason. Keep that or a related example in mind, when talking to a therapist.

(6) I could repeat a bunch of questions here that an evaluator would ask, but that's their job. Just be observant and prepared to provide information.

(7) If and when it comes to medication, make sure you go over the reason for the specific prescription with the psychiatrist in careful detail. Read authoritative sources on it, and discount crazy Internet stories and web site.

That's it from me. Hopefully others can chime in. You have your work cut out for you. Good luck, Experienced_Dad

My advice to you is to first of all do whatever you can to get him off the marijuana. I do not believe the symptoms will ease or go away until he is clean and able to get it out of his system. The longer he smokes the worse the effects and the longer it will take him to recover. Also, you said he was being evaluated which is a great idea but make sure the person evaluating him does a lot of testing to be sure he isn’t either depressed or suffer from an organic psychosis. Chances are it is related to the marijuana. If you have any questions, want just to talk about what you are going through, or desire a reference from the medical persons we used, feel free to email me. Good luck. It is a devastating thing to go through as a parent and watch your son suffer like this. I understand completely. psl

yes, definitely contact other parents in your kid's group, compare notes, try to intervene to the extent you can. i did not have all that much luck with cutting contact with problem kids [they will keep seeing them, perhaps with more vigor if you object]; but it was really helpful to be comparing notes with those parents willing to talk and collaborate. after my son went to a therapeutic program, several other kids in his group also went to programs; a few others ended up in juvie or involuntary programs, and the others got their acts together.

also, someone mentioned searching his room, and i highly recommend that, even if it is hard to preach privacy while not respecting it. he is a minor, and you have cause to be concerned, and you are responsible for his health. BE THOROUGH.

during the month or 2 that my son was in his rehab aftercare program, headed toward the big flunk, we found [among other things]:

* fermenting bottles, under his platform bed, of what could loosely be called wine;

* most of the makings of a methamphetamine lab [''a friend wanted to try it''];

* a lot of CCC [otc cold pills containing dxm, frequently shoplifted];

* other random pills;

* pipes for smoking drugs, roach clips;

* a bunch of rotting mushrooms collected from a nearby hill [''i once tried mushrooms, but i guess these aren't the same kind''];

* used packets of an emergency asthma med meant for use with a nebulizer [and not used with the nebulizer, since he cut up the tubing for his intended meth lab];

* and that's not all. he stole vicodan. there was stuff to cook pills into something that could be inhaled or swallowed. razor blades to chop pills. ack, it is hard to remember.

knowing is better than not knowing. we knew our son was messed up, but didn't know in our hearts how bad it was until we started really searching. best to you. another mom

I'm glad you are having him evaluated. I don't know what type of professional is evaluating him, but it may take several opinions to get a clear picture of what is going on. Don't give up and make sure you are working with someone who you can trust and communicate with. Some psychiatrists out there won't tell the parents anything if they are seeing a 17 year old kid. Find one who will work with you as well as with your son. Definitely when he turns 18 things become more difficult legally so it's good you are getting on this now.

If he does have a mental illness, early treatment can make a huge difference in outcome. It's been shown that the brain is damaged by psychosis, but if medication is prescribed and taken early to control the psychosis the damage is much less.

Support group for parents of kids with mental illness: NAMI, 3rd Tuesday of the month 7 - 9PM Church on the NW corner of Marin and Stannage, Albany totally confidential, great group with facilitators

Best of luck! anon, too

16-year-old son is smoking pot, agrees to counseling

I have a 16 year old son who started experimenting with pot and alcohol last year. He doesn't drink anymore because alcohol makes him sick, but he still is smoking pot. He gets excellent grades and has a good after school job and is generally a really good kid. Over the past 9 months several incidents have occurred and I have had to punish him and they were all weed related. Both my family & his dad's family have a history of substance abusers, so I am terrified that he will end up with a problem even if he doesn't have one now. We have a good relationship and can talk about things openly. He has agreed to see someone with me and go to a drug awareness class. Does anyone know about any classes or good counselors in the east bay? I have switched to Kaiser for next year because I have heard they have good teen programs. I would like to know how other parents have dealt with this problem. Thank you. anon

My daughter and I dealt with the same issues as you, substance abuse being in the family, good grades, etc. Plus, pot is a depressant and she had been struggling with that too. So, we just keep talking about it at home and in therapy. She had some bad experiences and saw what it was doing to her friends, and I bothered her so much about it I think she just doesn't want to deal with me if she comes home stoned! She came to her own realizations about it and made the decision to stop on her own which is really the only way a person can or will stop. Now, she may be pulling the wool over my eyes and smoking at friends houses, but I doubt it.

We went to an art therapist at one time and it was really helpful for both of us to get at feelings that you can't put words to. Working with images is really powerful in a way I didn't expect. She's not part of Kaiser. Her name is Ava Charney-Daynesh. She's in El Cerritto.

I heard from my daughter's step-mother that Kaiser has an excellent substance abuse program. It's not a 12-step program. I am not sure, but I think it's open to teens. good luck to both of you!

Daughter is cutting classes and smoking pot

Hi, I'm the parent of a bright, motivated sophomore at BHS. Lately, I discovered that she has been smoking pot. I think this first happened toward the spring of 9th grade and has been fairly sporadic. Recently, though, it's been once a week. This week she skipped a day of school and smoked pot. I'm pretty much at a loss. She keeps up with her school work, and is interested in school (more so this year than last). I'm worried about what I see as a downward trend, though. Anyway -- these are my questions: Is this normal teenage risk-taking behavior? Do all kids at BHS smoke pot, so I should just not worry about it? Since, frankly, I am worried about it, how do I keep her away from all the pot that seems to be freely available at BHS, and from all her friends, who are apparently also all smoking pot? I'm trying to remember what I did as a teenager -- I had sex at 17, drank an occasional beer and smoked a little bit of pot in college. To me, 15 seems much too young for any of this. Am I hopelessly old-fashioned? Isn't this bad for a developing brain? Help! anonymous

I let her know that I didn't think it was a good idea, but that if she was going to do it, to do it in a safe environment, and always know that she could call us, if she ever felt unsafe or uncomfortable. That her safety was more important than the fact that she was drinking or whatever. We also had many conversations about her experiences with friends drinking, getting high, etc. and she gave her opinion and we gave our opinion. Hopefully her comfort level with being able to talk to us about her experiences, as opposed to feeling like she had to hide them, allowed her to see them from a different perspective, and helped her to make more informed choices. The same with cutting classes. She usually calls to let us know if she is missing a class, and why. She knows we don't encourage it on a regular basis, but it's ok once in a while, to take a break. We felt it was more important to be realistic about what she might try, and have some communication about it, rather than ram our expectations down her throat and have no idea what is going on.

We cannot control our kids actions, the best we can do is to let them know that we support them. Good luck with your daughter.

PLEASE....Stand up for your kid's health and safety --- even if it seems like ''everyone is doing it'' (insert activity here...drugs, sex, skipping class, etc.). 15 is too young for a lot of things that your kid will be exposed to at Berkeley High...If you are not willing to draw a line for her between acceptable and unacceptable behavior.... you better believe no one else will do it.

Whatever age you were when you did various things... I think a more appropriate question is whether you later regretted doing some of them, or would have been harmed by NOT doing them in high school. And remember, high school in a time of AIDS and various available drugs isn't really the same mostly benign experience it was for us baby boomers. Peer pressure is strong, but your opinion matters, too. Be clear and consistent.

Here are some of the mantras I mumble throughout my day:

''I don't regret what I didn't (get to) do as a teenager, just some of the things I did.''

''Most of our lives are lived over the age of 18 -- so what's the hurry?''

My favorite, after 17 years, is still:

''Most kids DO grow up'' (the odds really are in your favor...)

Please feel free to contact me for support in being hopelessly old fashioned, and don't be swayed by your parent ''peers''. You owe it to your kids --- even if you're just giving them a firm boundary to step over from time to time. Heather

Good luck, and I look forward to reading the other responses. anon

We caught sophomore son smoking

Don't expect to get help from other parents - most of our son's friends' parents closed their eyes to the problem, especially if their child was successful in school (although since then, we've discovered several kids who had been doing well in school, but were using, are no longer doing well in eleventh grade). There isn't a lot of professional help here in the East Bay, either. I believe the only program for teens is the inpatient program at Thunder Road in Oakland. (I've since learned that outpatient programs, in general, aren't effective, anyway.) It takes serious therapy to change behavior and a long time to integrate that behavior: the problem didn't happen overnight and there are no quick fixes.

Talk to your son openly; see if you can find out more about what's going on, what's driving his use of marijuana, and how much and how often he's using. He may hate the situation he's in and not know how to get out of it. See if you can restrict him from seeing the friends he smokes with (this is not easy; peers are everything). Also, I would let his friends' parents know the situation, although they may not be willing to support you (ie., they may continue allow your son at their house even if you don't want him there, or not supervise the kids even if you request they do). In our situation, we found that, while our son was living at home, restricting privileges didn't work. He got around any restrictions by running away. For the same reason, consequences didn't work: he wasn't around to suffer them. If you're serious, you have to step up your own vigilence. However, my experience tells me that if your son is flaunting your authority or lying to you, whatever you attempt at this point (at home) is too little, too late. In my son's case, he had to be put in a truly restrictive environment, with positively no way out, before change was possible. I'm sure you will get lots of other advice, but this is mine in a worst-case scenario.

13-year-old has been smoking with his friends

This is what we learned:

1. "Experimenting" is defined as trying pot 5 or 6 times and then stopping use. Using 2 or 4 times a month on some sort of regular basis puts one at risk of chronic use and dependence.

2. The pot that our kids are smoking is 5 to 14 times stronger than the stuff we were smoking in the 60's. Most of the studies that have been done so far on effects of marijuana use are based on the older, lower strengths of the drug.

3. Younger adolescents are at highest risk of substance abuse. The respiratory tracts of adolescents are more susceptible to damage from carcinogens and other pollutants in marijuana smoke. New studies show that the human brain is still developing until the mid-20's. The last areas to develop are those that involve judgement and reasoning. Marijuana impairs the development of these areas of the brain. Also, because it targets and affects certain mood-altering neurotransmitters it can more quickly create dependence/addiction in a younger brain that is still developing.

4. Susceptibility to dependence/addiction can be hereditary. A family with a history of depression or other mood disorders or alcohol/drug abuse can mean that the child is more at risk. Using marijuana or other external substances as a "crutch" for dealing with anxiety or depression impedes the child's development of their own internal resources.

Our family rules are based on "health and safety" issues - when necessary, these areas are pretty broadly defined. We had some long discussions with our daughter about the above information and used it as the basis for our position that she must abstain from all mood-altering substances. We had discussions with all the parents involved and learned to our dismay that most were unwilling to intercede in their children's behavior or else talked a good line about strict supervision but never followed through. We learned that one parent allowed the kids to smoke in the home while she was there. As a result, we have had to enforce some pretty strict rules about certain homes being off limits and adult supervision required in those that weren't off limits.

We have committed to abstinence ourselves (previously drank occasional beer or wine at home) to support our child's commitment to abstinence and also to better understand her motivations. We are participating in family counseling to deal with the stressors which she says led her to look to pot for relaxation and she is enjoying yoga and meditation classes.

The last year has been challenging but we have definitely seen a payoff. Our family relationships are better and more open. Our daughter continues to do well in school and has on her own pulled loose from the problematic friends as she has watched them slide downhill. She protested loudly in the beginning that we were overreacting to normal adolescent behavior but at the same time seemed comforted that we did care enough to intercede.

In answer to your question about consequences: the restrictions on unsupervised time was the main consequence we imposed. Other parents we talked with have required attendance at 12-step meetings so that the child can hear first hand other teens' experiences with the consequences of chemical dependence, and have used random drug screening as a safety net (they say it gives their child an "out" when pressured by peers to participate).

We still struggle with occasional self-doubt about the way in which we interceded (and I think a big part of this is related to the lack of support we got from other parents) but I commend you for taking this seriously at an early stage and hope that by doing so you will be spared some of the heartache that we've seen other families endure.

The original letter did make me think about our responsibility for other peoples' kids. No parent wants to be the unwitting host of activities that are forbidden by other parents. I have talked to the parents of my kids' closest friends about marijuana and alcohol and I've we have called each other when we've made "discoveries" at home. In general we've come pretty close to having the same approach. What would I do if another parent phoned me whose approach was very different from mine? I'd respect their opinion, and I'd pass the word on to my kids, but I would give them my own opinion too, and hope that my opinion would receive the same respect that theirs gets.