• Daughter is withdrawn, hostile and negative
• 13-year-old's daily rages, may be bipolar - boarding school?
• My 16-year-old daughter won't speak to me
• Hostile 17-y-o refuses therapy - help for parents?
• My step-daughters, 13 & 17, are angry and violent
• 15-year-old is angry, depressed and fat: help!
• Anger management class for teens
• Hostile Pre-Teens (10-12)
• More Advice about Anger
• Related page: Teens Not Talking to Parents
• Related page: Out of Control Teen
• Advice about Bipolar Disorder

Daughter is withdrawn, hostile and negative

Hello, It seems these days, my teen daughter is often withdrawn, hostile, and/or negative in her interactions with the world--within the family and toward others. Her life is basically good, so am saddened by her armor plate.

She says she wants to do things, but everything in her body language and interactions with the people around her screams she doesn't. It seems like she isn't aware of how her stance will put folks off. They try, but she doesn't often let them in. When I talk with her she doesn't want to listen. She covers her head, plugs her ears.

I'm scarred she's creating a path that will dictate her future in ways she won't be able to change. Any advise on how to talk so they will listen. Feeling helpless. Anon

13-year-old's daily rages, may be bipolar - boarding school?

Since fourth grade we've been trying to deal with a kid who is very angry on a daily basis, who steals, lies, does whatever possible to stir up trouble within our family. We've seen a host of mental health professionals: psychiatrist, evaluator, therapist, group therapist, family counselor, peer counselor, pediatrician specializing in ADHD, tried Depakote and Zoloft, spent thousands of dollars and seen no change or improvement in his behavior. (All of these appointments were researched and made by me; my husband has no faith in mental health professionals and I have to admit none of them so far have been effective.) At this point, I'm ready to get my son out of our home and into a boarding school or therapeutic boarding school. My husband doesn't want to send him away. I realize he's only 13 and that's really young but our family life is hell. He's not ''happy'' unless he's making everyone around him miserable, his daily rages make me cower, literally, and I have no idea what steps to take to change things. I'm open to advice but am especially hoping to hear from parents who have been through this. Could a boarding school improve my son's outlook and behavior or will it make him even harder and less cooperative? Anonymous

Because of the possibility that he would need to attend such a school that is not here in the Bay Area, it would be my advice to consult with the Bodin Associates in Lafayette. They specialize in just the situation you are experiencing. Been There, Done That - with Relative Success anonymous

my son fell apart in high school, and i can definitely relate to wanting to find some relief from the rages, acting out, all the drama in the family.

my husband and i also had a lot of anxiety and differences of opinion about what would help. far before i was willing to consider sending my son away, my husband was talking about that. i had to try various other things -- and it sounds like you have tried many things already.

have you considered consulting an educational therapist? we used bodin associates in lafayette [i think they also have an office on the peninsula], and it made a world of difference having outside people assess the situation and make a variety of recommendations.

bodin has lots of contacts will all sorts of programs -- local and away. we appreciated that the counselor we worked with had visted every place she recommended we consider, and knew people there. the assessment of our son was very individualized -- even though he was not very cooperative, they got records and talked to a lot of people who had worked with us and our son.

the whole process was kind of scary, but not as scary as continuing to live in the disaster our lives had become, and worrying constantly about how much worse it could get. [and it was really bad by the time we went to the consultant -- our son had 3 ER visits for substance problems in the previous year, and an involuntary psych commitment; he was nasty, and regularly went into rages where he tore up the house -- threatening us, kicking holes in walls, breaking things; was escorted home by police and detained by transit police; had bombed out of rehab; run away from home overnight a couple of times; stole from us; was caught with paraphrenalia at his new school; etc.]

the educational consultant recommended that we start with a very good therapeutic wilderness program -- not a boot camp, but a place where the kids learned self-reliance and to begin talking about stuff. even my son thinks that program was excellent. the staff was well trained. he was seen by a great therapist weekly; we exchanged mail via fax weekly; and his dad and i talked to the therapist for an hour weekly. after a few weeks, when he'd calmed down and adjusted, he had a battery of psychological tests. between that excellent report, his work with his group and his therapist, we got a better picture of what would help him along.

when our son was ready, my husband and i attended a ''transition camp'' -- an overnight trip to the wilderness with other kids [and parents] who were ''graduating.''

the educational consultant was in close touch with us and our son's therapist during the wilderness program, and came up with a lot of good recommendations about what to do next. we chose a therapeutic boarding school that was really good for our son's needs. he is not as enthusiastic about that choice, but it was really good for him -- he completed high school there, learned a lot, had a lot of fun, was able to keep up with his interest in music. he became himself again, only more mature. now he is a functioning, working adult of 19, a decent guy and holding his own. [we had expected he'd be in college, and i think one day he will be -- but he's alive and doing well, and we feared quite a lot that we would lose him, in the dark days.]

long story -- but try an educational consultant. they have so much more access to options than we mere mortal parents do, and it is truly a relief finding some options anonymous mom

If you feel that your child *may* be a danger to himself or others (you included) get in touch with a mental health professional immediately.

I can't judge the situation from here and realize this may sound alarmist. But I am absolutely serious. Given your child's age, the issues of violence and suicide are absolutely real. As someone once said to me, ''it may only be a slight risk, but no one is only slightly dead.''

Now to where I began writing: I deeply sympathize with your plight. I have personal experience with your situation. This parenting experience is terrifying, baffling, emotionally exhausting and endlessly painful. What follows is based on knowledge I'd rather not have acquired. Please bear with its length if you can.

The problem with this kind of advice is the implicit assumption that one knows enough to offer specifics. I will try only to offer information, point out some relevant considerations, and describe what I believe is the best way to get help. There are no absolutes. Every step, every decision, is a judgment call. In particular cases, everything I will say could be dead wrong. With that caveat, here is my advice:

Sending your son to a boarding school will not solve his problems. To do so may be necessary, for reasons of safety or the well-being of your family as a whole. But regardless of where he is, your son's central issue is diagnosis. And placement decisions warrant caution. A wilderness program, for example, could be great for a kid with one set of problems but horribly destructive for a different one.

Thus, diagnosis is the first and critical step. But diagnosis means much more than labeling with a DSM-IV number. It requires a proper understanding of the individual child and the surrounding circumstances, careful observation, and thoughtful, experienced insight.

Without proper diagnosis, treatment is nothing but a random shot in the dark. ''First, do no harm,'' is the physician's maxim for very good reasons. Keep it foremost in your mind. With your child, compassion and tenderness is more likely called for than is ''tough love'' or blind adherence to social norms about how to raise children.

I know you've tried to crack this problem, and I know the financial and personal costs involved, but I strongly believe that you should try again and take a systematic, committed approach to diagnosis and treatment. To me, the fact that you've already tried so much only means that you face a tough problem, need excellent help and need to stay with it over time.

The situation you describe could have many origins, some psychiatric, some not -- an example of the latter is that the impact of neurocognitive or ''learning'' problems could lead to a secondary psychiatric condition like anxiety. Treating the anxiety is a palliative that alone doesn't solve the problem. These conditions are very difficult to understand, and understanding develops over time. Thus, it is better to stick with one team than to keep trying new players. Now some specifics:

1. ''Bipolar disorder'' is not the question, nor is it the answer. At best it is a mere label of convenience, as are all DSM-IV categories. These problems are not one-dimensional. They may involve genetic, biological, physiological, cognitive and social factors. That's why a really good diagnostic team is essential.

2. Fish oil? Please... Your child's life deserves more than voodoo medicine and home remedies. A supplement, maybe... An answer? No way.

3. This IS rocket science. You need to find and work with a team of two highly skilled and specialized professionals: a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist.

4. The clinical psychologist is critically important to diagnosis -- even more than the psychiatrist. That is where to begin. Psychiatrists have a valuable set of skills and knowledge, but they aren't the best place to begin in the search for understanding. That's why in-patient units (like UCSF's Langley-Porter Institute) use a team approach that places the psychologist on an equal footing with the physician.

5. Treatment: I'm certainly not prescribing. All I can say is this... good treatment plans are multi-dimensional. In serious cases, mental health treatment includes a mix of individual and family therapy as well as medications, if called for. When physiological, neurocognitive or learning problems are involved, other components are needed as well.

6. Don't rule out medications just because you've tried some that didn't help. Meds are no panacea, but can be tremendously helpful. Even moderate improvement in your child's condition can make a huge difference in your life and his. But your physician, if competent, will be cautious. A medication regime frequently involves several drugs, and getting the dosages and balance right is complex. Watch closely for side effects. Remember also that the right meds prescribed for the wrong condition can exacerbate rather than alleviate symptoms.

7. Educational consultants? Yikes! This is way premature for the reasons above. Beyond that, and without commenting specifically on the one(s) mentioned (of whom I have no personal knowledge), I advise you to be cautious. I've heard more than one story about consultants who knew less than the parents who were paying them.

8. ATesting is the clinical psychologist's job, not that of an educational consultant. It is folly to rely on an ed consultant for diagnostic work.

9. I suspect your child may be having problems in school. Ask your school district for an evaluation of your child for special ed. You have that right even if he is in a private school. If you disagree with the district's evaluation you have the right to an independent evaluation at the school district's expense. This is a little-known right, but important for diagnostic as well as financial reasons. Special ed professionals will admit -- off the record -- that they don't have the tools or the time to do a full evaluation in difficult cases. Since an evaluation and simple report by a clinical psychologist runs $1500 to $3000 and up (well worth it), you may as well get the district to bear some of the burden. You've already spent tens of thousands, I suspect.

10. Some fear that special ed status stigmatizes their child. I disagree -- the impacts on self-esteem and social relationships of the problems that get children to special ed are far more harmful than any stigma that results. Special ed is by no means a perfect system, nor is it easy to navigate, but you can get significant financial help, including payment for a residential placement, if you work your way through the system. Here too, a clinical psychologist can help tremendously.

Finally, I can't say strongly enough how important it is to get top people on your child's team, especially given your description of the situation. Here are some recommendations to get you started. These are people I know and have confidence in. Obviously, there are others:

Clinical psychologists: Michelle Horton, Ph.D. (985-2958); Terry Doyle, Ph.D. (594-1926).

Psychiatrists: Robert Epstein, M.D. (848-0900); Shane MacKay (540-1746).

If it would be helpful, you may contact me through the Parents of Teens moderators -- Anonymous for now.

one point, though, was a ''yikes!'' about finding an educational consultant. i'm one of the parents who suggested an educational consultant, and it was truly a turning point for us.

but i want to clarify, that is not where we started -- i made that suggestion because the parent asking about options for her son had already tried a lot of things. we tried talking to teachers, a family therapist, adolescent rehab, a new school that was very focused on students. we found a great adolescent psychiatrist -- but could not find a way to make our son go see that great doctor.

a year's worth of self-help yielded: 3 ER visits, one involuntary psych hospitalization, failing grades in 2/3 of our very bright son's classes, a 30 day inpatient rehab, his failing the outpatient rehab followup, several brushes with the police, being caught with paraphrenalia at his new school, being fired from the band he founded with good friends some years earlier, etc. the screaming. the holes in the walls. stuff he stole. the runaways. it was a complete nightmare. and i have a smart, very decent kid -- he lost himself, and we could not bring him back without serious help.

we turned to educational consultants when we had no more decent options, and it opened doors. we could not even get a good assessment of what was going on with our son, because he would not comply or cooperate on an outpatient basis. and our family life was in flames for quite a long time -- the worst part lasted a full year, even with the best interventions we could invent and patch together.

there is no down side to talking with an educational consultant. they have heard it all. there is no way for parents to easily navigate the local or away options without some help from people who know about programs -- and one piece of the programs they can suggest involves getting a handle on diagnosis.

to answer another issue -- the ed consultants do NOT do diagnosis themselves. they can recommend appropriate people, or see that a kid gets the appropriate evaluation at where ever he or she goes.

my own son had two kinds of very excellent evaluations at his therapeutic wilderness camp, where he spent 9 weeks -- one from a therapist who saw him weekly, was in close contact with the people who saw my son constantly, and also consulted with us -- and probably the best psychological evaluation based on testing that i've ever seen [and i see quite a few in my work]. the wilderness place was extremely supportive. i still feel that we could have struggled for years more, and never gotten as decent an assessment at home. my son, too, feels the therapeutic wilderness experience was really, really good for him -- he sees it more as a chance he had to grow and to believe in himself. [he was NOT happy about going there, but was VERY happy with how far he had come by the time he left, 9 weeks later.] anonymous mom

My 16-year-old daughter won't speak to me

I'm having a horrible time with my 16 year old daughter. She has done nothing but glare, snarl and refuse to speak to me for over a month now.

This started with an increase number of unexcussed absences at school. I responded by cutting off her cell phone (I thought just until she started going back to classes regularly). She responded with even worse attendance (she's missed at least one class a day for almost six weeks now and is failing at least two classes as a result) and has refused to talk to me at all. I'm just gritting my teeth and trying to cope with living with a continuous stream of hatred.

There have been a number of substantial stresses at home, so this problem is not 100% out of the blue. I've suggested counseling, but she became enraged at that idea and took off. I ultimately called the police to help find her that night. Any suggestions? anonymous

I ask you this: 1) take a step back - what is your relationship with her, she is obviously in need of attention and help but does she have an outlet for that (if not you, an aunt or someone)?

2) are the only/most interactions between you two hostile and negative?

My suggestion is this - Discipline w/out ANGER. Give her consequences for her actions, set the expectations clearly (no missing class, or no new clothes or cell, allowance for a SET amount of time, take away again if she re- offends). Tell her when she is capable of making her own decisions she will be allowed to do so, but right now she is not showing that ability.

The part kids hate is the unexpectedness we often impose in our punishments and the LASHING out and BERATING we end up doing out of FEAR and WORRY - they don't see fear and worry as love, they just see/hear the ANGER and ''you don't understand me'' parts.

Then you have to grin and bear her negative behavior and show her you are not affected by it and her escalating that will not affect you either (so it's not beneficial to her to continue it). Your ''matter of fact'' attitude will yield shock and dividends in terms of her NOT knowing how to react. Even the title of your post shows us she is pushing your buttons well - Don't focus on her NOT talking to YOU, Focus on your child having a bad time at making the right decisions.

also, don't let your fear run you ragged - we can drive ourselves nuts sometimes and the kids always think we are overreacting.

Then at all possible times, give her encouragement, point out what she is doing well.

Good luck to you - try meditation, reading good books on meditation and some ''you'' time as well let your love shine thru

My step-daughters, 13 & 17, are angry and violent

We have 3 teen daughters, 13, 15, 17. My bio daughter, 15, is 60% here and 40% with her Dad. Good Dad. My 2 stepdaughters, 13 & 17, live with us full time, have been and continue to be abandoned by their mother. She has no custody of the 17 yr old, and every other weekend of the 13 yr old, for which she often doesn't show. Or suddenly brings them back after 2 hours. They are very angry, screaming, throwing things, violent, have left bruises on me. We told them they would have to attend anger management classes (yet to be found) (we would go too). They refused, screaming ''make me'', grabbing my arm and even trying to force me out of the house. My husband backs me up but the situation is untenable. We need help fast. Have called the police once already. It mostly seems like huge power struggles. Groups for teens for anger management/blendedfamily issues? Thanks. Waiting for the next time. Things are calm at this moment, but cycles of anger. Any advice or suggestions for classes, groups, therapists very much appreciated.

Although this person is talking about Ohio, I'm betting it works similarly here. You might want to research it a bit. If you can avoid the criminal justice system, you are more likely to have a successful outcome and get your family the support it needs. Good luck and hang in there. Diane

15-year-old is angry, depressed and fat: help!

We live in Marin and my son is a l5 year old H.S. sophomore. He is opposed to any kind of intervention and gets extremely angry when any suggestions are sent his way. He's been diagnosed with depression and takes lexapro. His psychiatrist went to Kaiser last year and my son will not see anyone else. His grades are poor and he was recently caught cheating at school. Has anyone had experience with psych. testing or neuropsych. testing - would it provide some useable information about my son? I already know what's wrong: just not how to engage him into making things better. He defines the word ''resistant''.

She did have psychological testing and I think it was most UNHELPFUL. In my opinion, it doesn't help to have a disinterested outsider add some labels to an already difficult situation.

What does help? Well, if you can find an adult (teacher, religious leader, school counselor, life coach) that your son does trust, perhaps even bribe or cajole him to see a couple, that would be great.

Exercise---is there anything or anyone he likes to get outside with? (dogs, horses?) Teen meditation at Spirit Rock (a very accepting environment).

My daughter really resented the notion that she needed ''therapy''. Perhaps a good ''life coach'' if your son reacts positively to the notion of ''coaching.'' Good luck. Hang in there. Keep him safe. Try not to judge him. Love him. Love yourself. We mostly all make it through the teenage years---painful as they may be.

Wish there were an instruction manual