Berkeley Parents Network: Crying it Out

Berkeley Parents Network

Crying it Out

Berkeley Parents Network > Advice > Sleep > Crying it Out

Cry It Out Guilt

August 2005

Some background: My 11 mo has never been a good sleeper. On a good night, she woke up two or three times. On a bad night, she woke 6-8 times. I never imagined that I'd have to resort to the Ferber method (I read Dr. Ferber's book before starting), but my work life was becoming h*ll, and even going to the store rivaled climbing Mt. Everest in terms of effort. I couldn't carry a conversation and my marriage was reduced to stolen naps and grumpy grunts. Something had to give. I spoke to my ped, had my baby checked before we began the process, and then one evening I rocked her till she was drowsy, then put her down.

The crying was horrible. I sweated. I cried. My husband and I sat on the stairs with clock in hand, ready to time the intervals before going in to soothe her. We did this for four nights. On the third and fourth nights, our baby vomited. This was extremely traumatic for us. We spoke to our pediatrician who said that this happens sometimes, but that if we ever wanted to sleep again, we needed to follow through. (And by the way, we did clean her and the sheets, and soothe her briefly before putting her back.) Our ped also explained that babies have a quick gag reflex and to try not to project our own fears onto our child.

I feel terrible about this process, yet I really didn't see an alternative. Before I get flamed (and I've done enough self- flagellating to last a lifetime), let me say that we tried cosleeping, but our daughter hated it. She'd wake repeatedly and flip, kick, and sometimes cry because she didn't have enough space. I just didn't know what to do. She sleeps so much better now, and is much happier and as loving as can be, and yet I can't help feeling tremendous guilt about this process. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Or, has anyone used the Ferber method, and how did you feel about it afterwards? I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that I'm not Queen Drucilla of Bad Moms. Queen Platypus of Angst-Ridden Moms

Please stop beating yourself up. You have every right to want a good night's sleep -- it's not being selfish or a bad mom. In fact, you'll be a better mom well rested. As horrible as it is now, you and your child will both benefit from sleeping through the night. Your child will not remember crying to sleep nor be traumatized for life (despite the throwing up!). Really! Take Sears, et al that recommend co- sleeping and never letting your kid cry at night with a giant- sized grain of salt. Read instead The Sleep Book for Tired Parents. At the Kaiser Health Education Library. Hang in there. anon

Get over yourself!! There is nothing wrong with cry it out. Your baby will not hate you. She will be happier to go to bed, better rested in the morning, and better able to take on the day, learn new things, etc. You would have had an easier time had you done it sooner--but just think how lucky you are that you didn't wait longer! Crying is OK

I, too, had tremendous guilt about trying the Ferber method. I read every book I could get my hands on and talked to lots of other parents. Nothing worked. Everyone in our household, especially my nine month old baby, was completely exhausted from waking repeatedly EVERY night and completely stressed from the bedtime ''ritual'' which could literlly go on for hours. I think it took about a week (and yes, it was very stressful,I cried, and screamed at my husband if he was even a minute late going in to comfort the baby when it was his turn) but, low and behold, my baby became a terrific little sleeper! He is now two years old and is a very happy, very energetic, very bright little guy who loves his bedtime routine, goes to sleep usually without a fuss, and takes three hour naps. I am just amazed now when he trots off down the hall with his dad at bedtime and says ''Night Night Mom. I love you.'' If anything, now I feel guilty about not doing what needed to be done sooner so that the poor little guy could get some sleep! --Mom of a well rested toddler.

I also used cry-it-out with reluctance, and it was tough, but I look at it this way: as a terribly sleep-deprived person, I was depressed, cried a lot, felt impatient with my baby quite often, and had trouble maintaining interest in playing with him. Not the best basic for a good mother-baby relationship. Now that he is sleeping better (and so am I), I am cheerful, engaged, and have a wonderful time with him most of the time; when he is cranky, my reserves of patience are deep and can handle what he dishes out most of the time. There will always be compromises in mothering, because I am not Superwoman. I think I chose well for myself and my baby, in a compromise that had to be made one way or another. anonymous

Do not feel guilty. It was rough, but you followed through and taught your daughter how to self-soothe and now she's sleeping better. We never had a bad sleeper, but we have to renew the sleep training every few months or so. We never went full hog on the Ferber method, but we've spent quite a few nights sitting in the dark in the room while he works out his anxiety. He never liked cosleeping either. When it go to the point where he was not happy in bed with us, rocking, or in the crib, we decided he'd have to go in the crib and we hung in there with him. He's happy and adjusted. If your child is sleeping and everyone's doing much better you should not feel guilty. Feel proud that you stuck it out. Miss Snoozie

I just want to give you some support. We decided to let our child cry it out too. I felt some guilt, but I got over it because I realized that I am a MUCH better mother when I'm not exhausted. When I don't get to sleep through the night, I am a mean, crabby lady, and that wasn't good for my child! So I chose a few nights of crying (and yes, vomiting) over years of crabby, impatient mothering. It was the right thing for us.

My daughter is now 5 and is the most happy, well-adjusted child I know. (I'm biased, but I really do think this!) I certainly don't see any ill effects from crying it out now. Would she be this way if I had spent 2 or more years snapping at her, and not playing with her often, because I was tired and grumpy? No way to tell, but I expect not. anon

Your child is now sleeping through the night? I say pack in the guilt and get a good nights rest. Here's what I've found to be positive about Ferbering my son at 8 months: once he was sleep trained, if he cried in the night, I KNEW something was wrong, i.e. he was sick, or teething. He wasn't just waking from a disrupted sleep cycle. There was no extra layer of guess work, or trying to fix the wrong problem, just jump out of bed and find a solution.

You said you read Ferber, so you know that it's a disrupted sleep cycle that's the issue? You corrected it based on a reasonably humane plan. Continued night waking is not good for children, and if your baby was crying when she woke each time, think of the tears you've spared by teaching her to soothe herself back to sleep. I'm sorry your daughter vomitted, that must have been very, very traumatic, but I'm certain that over the course of her childhood, that's going to seem inconsequential. Forgive yourself and move on. Anon

Your baby is fine! If you want to feel better check Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child out from the library. Dr. Marc Weissbluth presents research showing the importance of good sleep for cognitive and emotional development. So many of the choices we make in parenting are tradeoffs. You chose to have a few very painful nights for you and your child instead of (if your child is like my first one) years of grumpiness and temper tantrums (for both of you if you are like me!) from sleep deprivation.

What you did was incredibly hard. Some people may tell you that it could have lasting harmful effects, but so can years of restless nights for both you. Having a tired and resentful parent and being a cranky and strung out child also have lasting harmful effects. People who chose the no cry route (like me with my first two---still can't steel myself with my third) may think that they are being kind, but I do know that my baby and I were both so much happier when she slept well and often (she slept through the night until recently). My older two daughters were cranky and unmanageable until we figured out how to get them to sleep through the night at around age three. Who knows what we lost over those years because we were all so exhausted and cranky. Anyway, you made a difficult choice and now your baby is happy and you are getting a good night's sleep. Beating yourself up doesn't help you or your child. Go forth and enjoy your days and your child's well-rested happiness! Sleepless in the South Bay

Seems like you are faced with a real problem, and your guilt is making it worse. You said you read Ferber before starting, and I hope you picked up on some of the compassion he had for both parents and children in his book. He's been so maligned, and I think unnecessarily so. If I recall correctly, Ferber is not telling you to torture your child, but he does say that it's not easy. And he says that you are teaching your child to self- sooth so that she can fall asleep by herself. It is natural to wake up several times each night--we ALL do it--but most of us have gotten so good at falling back asleep that we are not even aware that we've woken. However, for the child who has always fallen back asleep with the help fo a parent, it's hard to fall asleep alone. If you can see yourself as teaching your child something that will help her for the rest of her life, you might feel less guilt as she cries, not being used to it. I know it can be torture for a parent to hear her child cry, and that your response is not all together rational. But the lack of sleep you are all suffering is not helpful either. I know families where the husband sent the mother away for a night or two while the baby made the transition. I know other families where the mother cried harder than the child but stayed out of the room. For our family, what seemed to help was to set a plan before we fell asleep so that we did not need to make decisions at the most vulnerable point in the process. I recently read an exerpt from a different book called the No-Cry Method that has other approaches to the problem based on how you need to balance sleeplessness with tearfulness. You might check that out. But please remember that you are not a terrible mother; you are trying to teach your child something that is healthy and sound. For both of you. Veteran with Tear Stains

I just had to write and say, I am so sorry that you have been feeling guilty about doing something to help your child. As for ''crying it out'' . . . it sounds like your baby was crying a lot MORE before you used this sleep method. Now she is happy and well rested (and has more alert and energetic parents). Sometimes we have to decide what is best for our kids, even when they can't understand it right away. I think that most people who are rigidly against the Ferber method probably have not read the book, or else have babies who are better sleepers and just don't understand what it is like. Don't let anyone convince you that you were ''ignoring'' your child's communication; she was probably saying ''Please help me: I keep waking up and freaking out!'' And you responded by helping her overcome her unnecessary sleep anxiety. Ferber is not for everybody, but for some people, it is basically the only thing that works. I have loads of hippie friends who have done it, and my bay area pediatrician's office recommends it. My obstetrician told me that she regrets not doing it sooner, because her child has established poor sleep habits and is still waking up several times a night at age 2. You should feel good about teaching your baby to sleep. I'm sure it was harder on you than on her. Proud Ferber Mom

Feeling guilty is probably not helping you or your child. Sleep training is hard on everyone and it sounds like it was something you had to do. Honestly, what your child needs is parents who are sane and competent during the day as well as at night, and you can't be those things if you can't get any sleep. We ended up letting our daughter cry it out eventually as well, and she is a very happy, healthy, attached, loving and trusting 2.5 year old now (who still needs help going to sleep but sleeps through the night every night). Give yourself and your family the gift of letting this go. Sympathetic

YOU ARE NOT A BAD MOM!! You and your partner did what you needed to do, and it seems like your baby is happier now that she can sleep through. Parenting is not about always doing what your kid wants or thinks she needs - it's about doing what's best for your kid, and it seems like it's best to have you all sleeping well now. Not only that, but your baby can now get herself to sleep, which is a very important skill that becomes much harder to teach later.

By the way, we tried letting our son cry it out, and were never able to make it work - he did the same thing, cried for hours and vomited when he got too upset... we had tremendous guilt about even trying it, compounded when he got so upset he vomited. But I wish that we had tried earlier and stuck to it, because it would have meant much less frustration later. Now he is almost 3, and is just now starting to be able to be put down to bed in less than 1.5 hours. He still can't really put himself to sleep - we're working on it. anon

Just wanted to reassure you that you are not the world's worst mom. My son couldn't co-sleep with us either (he woke up every 45 minutes crying!). And just to let you know that there are things far worse than ''crying it out,'' during the time I was waking up many times a night, I was so tired that I got in a head-on collision with a city bus that I did not see.

I repeat, I was so tired that I did not see a city bus. Fortunately, my son was not in the car -- but can you imagine how horrible I'd have felt if he had been?

It is extremely important to get enough sleep, for your child's health and safety as well as for your sanity. It would be much worse had your daughter been injured because of your sleepiness. Have you heard the latest -- that someone who's been without sleep for 24 hours might as well be driving drunk?

You have done the right thing for your daughter. Let go of the guilt. Anyone who flames you doesn't have a clue. Karen

First of all stop feeling guilty. I know that's what moms do and all but you aren't doing anything bad here. Every family has to work this particular thing out for themselves. We co- slept for a long time- using a co-sleeper part of the time and then letting our son come into our bed at some point. We then moved the co-sleeper out and the crib in- so that he was right next to me at night but had his own space. When it was time for the toddler bed we took the crib out and replaced it with the little toddler bed. He slept there most of the night until we talked and decided as a family- our son included- that he could move into his own room. We then made a big deal about big boys sleeping in their own rooms in the own beds. He helped move the toddler bed in there and helped make the bed etc. This transitioning worked for us might not for everyone. I throw it out as an alternative to what seems to be a traumatic situation for your family. Sometimes finding a middle ground helps. Just a thought. Good luck. Juliette

Oh sweetheart! The fact that you care so much about your daughter's discomfort should be all the proof you need that you are a loving mom!! Showing love for your child does not mean that your child will always be happy, or always get exactly what she wants. She had short term discomfort, moving to a new way of sleeping and soothing herself. You did this so she could have long term success in sleeping, and that your family could have long term success in balancing everyone's need to sleep to function. Please please please don't feel guilty about that. It is completely natural to hate for your daughter to have any pain or sadness, however momentary it is (e.g. during a ''cry it out'' transition). So maybe you could let yourself feel SAD that this was necessary (because it was hard). But don't feel GUILTY. You were making the decision out of love for your daughter, and out of the goal to make an environment where everyone gets enough sleep so they can be the best for each other. Anyone who tells you differently (in my opinion) is being ridiculous -- for example, if your daughter was 10 and wanted the keys to the car because it would make her happy, would you give them to her? What if she cried about it for an hour? What if she cried about it every day after school for an hour for a week? The point is (obviously) that sometimes you need to set boundaries so that your child is safe and your family can function. A 10 yr old who wants the keys to the car is asking for something unreasonable. I think it is also fair to say that at some point, an older infant who requires mommy to be up multiple times a night is asking for something unreasonable. You sometimes have to say ''no,'' and set boundaries, in order to protect your child and help them learn to live in the world in a way that is positive. I really hope that you don't feel like anyone would ''flame'' you for your decision. I cannot imagine the audacity and silliness that would be involved in that kind of judgment. You are a good loving mom who is sad that it was hard for her daughter to learn to sleep through the night on her own. Nothing more, nothing less! You need sleep to love!

Dear Queenie,

Please do not feel guilty! I have also been a guilt/angst-ridden mom and it sucks! I have sleep trained both my children using variations on Ferber, Wessibluth. In the end it was the best thing for me and the kids because we all finally got the sleep we desparately needed.

I am slowly realizing that being a good mom is not about absolute self-sacrifice. You must take care of yourself as well. In the end, I believe you become a better mom.

On a larger scale, I wonder why we moms feel so guilty about so many things? I have felt ashamed to admit I sleep trained my kids, for fear of being judged (which I was) by other moms. What we really need to do is support each other to do what is best for us and our family- even if it is different for each family. I am sad that you had to ask not to get ''flamed,'' but not surprised. There is so much judgment in regards to parenting, especially in the supposedly ''progressive'' Bay Area- I actually find it ''oppressive'' when it comes to motherhood- how much judgment there is if you don't let your kids self-wean from breastfeeding, don't co-sleep, feed your kids sugar... I could go on and on.

I am reading a great book called ''Perfect Madness'' by Judith Warner on this very issue of guilt and mothering. How we self-sacrifice to the point of madness and in the end, it isn't necessarily what is best for our kids. weaning from my own guilt

I have no doubt you will get a lot of judgment on this issue, as it is such a sensitive and personal topic for so many. I made the same choice as you did, and went through a very rough week with my son at five months old. I was going through a divorce, needed to go back to work in a month, and the lack of sleep was causing me so much stress that I felt I couldn't parent unless he started sleeping for more than an hour and and a half at a time. Although that week was hell- a few times he cried in a rage for 20-30 minutes (one time was close to an hour) until he finally fell alseep. Several times he couldn't be soothed even when I would go back in, and it felt like torture for both of us. But I stayed consistent and within a week, the results were like magic. He fell alseep on his own with almost no crying.

Within 10 days, he started sleeping 9 hours straight, and two months later he was sleeping 11 hours. That week was the best investment in my mental health and personal sanity I ever made. Not only was I a happier, more energetic, and better mom for it, my son also transformed. Sleeping through the night made him less fussy during the day, and a better napper. Learning to soothe himself at night helped him to fall asleep easily during the day too, which freed up about an hour for me that I used to spend rocking him to sleep, and creeping out of his room hoping he wouldn't wake up (he usually did). Within 10 days, I had a routine for naps and at night. After his story, bath, song etc., I could set my son in the crib while he was still awake but sleepy, and he was out within three minutes, usually without a single cry. For the next two years, I could count on him sleeping without waking me up once for 11-12 hours. (Potty training and fear of the dark in toddlerhood created a new set of issues, but you have a long time to worry about those!) A lot of my friends who couldn't bear to let their child cry it out, or didn't believe in it, had children that didn't start sleeping through the night for years. My feeling is, let go of the guilt. It's hard for a week or so, but in the long run, not only is it necessary for you to be the best mom you can, it's better for your child too. Anon

I'm sure many many people will write to tell you: you have nothing to be guilty about. You did what you thought best for your baby, which not only includes helping her learn to sleep but also helping her have 2 functioning parents in her life! The only thing you did ''wrong'' in my perspective is sitting outside her door listening to her cries. For anyone who chooses this method, once you decide that it is the best thing to do, you don't have to punish yourself by listening closely to every cry. When we did it with our 1st baby, we went in another room and put on some music so we could just barely hear whether she was still crying or not. (BTW, now she is a loving, well-adjusted, good sleeping 6 year old with zero memory of the 3 nights she cried herself to sleep at 14 months.) Congratulations on having a better sleeping, happy, loving baby! --give yourself a break!

Of course you are not a bad mother. I know in the past this topic has sparked some heated and judgmental comments, and I hope you will only receive helpful advice.

Different things work for different people. I will just say that we were in the same situation with our (firstborn and only) daughter and finally did the cry-it-out thing at 14 months, after consulting with our pediatrician and reading several books (pedi recommended Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby). It was incredibly painful--our girl could literally scream for HOURS, and did, the first 3 or 4 nights. I was totally traumatized, but she was fine and happy in the morning. Looking back on it, I still can't believe we really did it; it was a measure of how desperate we were and the toll that sleep deprivation was taking on our marriage that we were willing to try it. It did work. By the end of the week she was sleeping through the night and continued to do so for the next 6 months, until we took her on a trip overseas and screwed everything up, but that's another story...

And for what it's worth, we know a wonderful, loving couple who told us (in our hour of need) that BOTH their children had gone through screaming so hard they threw up. Strong personalities, I guess. Many, many, many people have sleep problems with small children. I think it's unfortunately a large part of the price of parenthood, and you must do what you need to do to have a decent night. Feeling for You!

You're going to get a lot of responses! After agonizing, we decided to let our daughter cry it out, but earlier than you did--which I think made it easier for us. We did this for a few reasons: we knew several children who had terrible sleep patterns, both nap and nighttime, and they scared the bejeezus out of us. I also needed to work and I was a wreck. It was super hard and I had to leave the house a couple of times, my stomach hurt so much. Now, we usually manage to catch her when she's tired but not overtired, she sticks two fingers in her mouth, clutches her blankie, we turn on a little soft music, and out she goes (though at 7.5 mos she still up once a night to nurse then it's right back to sleep). It's not always this simple and there are tough nights. The morning after the first night I was sure she was going to be angry or hate me (projecting), but no, she greeted us with incredible smiles and was well rested. Huh! Basically, I just don't feel bad about a) having done it when or how we did, or b) her occasional crying anymore. A bad night is just that: a bad night. We help her through it and in the morning, smiles! Sleeping Better in Berkeley

You should NEVER feel guilty about doing this. I am currently going through it with my 4, almost 5, month old and he's doing beautifully. I also did it with my 4 year old daugther at aboutt he same age, and she is much better adjusted as a result. Hang in there! Traci

I am sure you will get A LOT of responses, but I just wanted to add my two cents. DON'T FEEL GUILTY. Your baby is sleeping better, her parents are sleeping better, her parents have a healthier marriage--the whole family is better off! Yes, the crying is hard. They are crying because they are frustrated that they don't know how to go to sleep on their own. Now she does and it is better for everyone!! We really struggled with this decision too and now we swear by it. A few nights of struggle and hardship for years of peaceful slumber seems like a good decision to me. I'd say you made the most responsible choice for your whole family. Good job!!!!!! Rebecca

Hi there, I don't know whether we really did Ferber by the book, but we did resort to sleep training when my daughter was about your daughter's age. We had had about 3 months away from home when she'd coslept with me and 'snacked' every two hours. By the end of it, I knew I couldn't physically do it anymore. We did the interval method (2, 5, 10 min, usually not longer than that, and not longer than a good hour, after which we'd abandon it for the night and do whatever to get her to sleep; then started the next night again). She screamed her head off the first two nights, then it became gradually easier and by about a week she was mostly fine (i.e. slept through with maybe one or two short wakings though no longer on a daily basis). She never vomited, though.

We have used it a few times again as needed. I don't like doing it and feel terrible every time we start, but for us it works. It usually doesn't take long for her to 'get it' again, and she is much happier when she sleeps. My thinking is that if I have to do it, better make it short and consistent rather than dragging it out. Don't beat yourself up. firm believer in maternal sanity

OK to let a 5-month-old cry it out?

Nov 2004

Hi Parents, I would like to know when you considered it OK to let your baby ''cry it out''. I have a 5 month old (plus a 2 year old and a 3 year old) and I am getting tired of nursing or rocking the baby to sleep. It just isn't practical when I have two other kids to take care of. I really want him to fall asleep on his own, but I don't know if he is too young to cry it out. He is also still waking up 3 times a night, so between the baby and the other two kids I am up constantly. I am already aware of all the different sleep methodologies (over the last 3 years I've accumulated just about every book on sleep) - I would just like to hear personal stories about how ''crying it out'' worked for you. Do you think 5 months is too young? or is that a good age to start? (please don't respond to tell me that you think it is ''cruel'' to let a baby cry). Thanks so much Berkeley Parents! Mom of three

I can't even begin to imagine how little sleep you must be getting. I have personal positive experience with the ''crying out method''. We let our now 3 1/2 yr old boy cry it out, when he was about 1yr. The first night was pure torture - he cried for 2 hours straight (I went out and did night gardening just so I wouldn't have to listen to him). The next night, he cried for 30 minutes, the next night 10 minutes. So, basically, if you endure the 3 or so nights (for some it takes a wk), then you are home free. That was 2 1/2 yrs ago and since then our son has been able to go to sleep by himself at night. We keep the light on for him and leave the room while his eyes are still wide open and he puts himself to sleep. The thing is, you can't cave in. Because that reinforces the behavior that if he cries long enough, then you will come and get him. I did go in and check on him during the time he was crying, but I didn't take him out of the crib. I suggest doing it sooner rather than later, because once they can talk or get out of the crib themselves, it is much much harder.

I now have another child - a 5 month old, like you. And from the very beginning, I have tried not to nurse him to sleep. I put him in the bassinette wide awake and let him put himself to sleep (I happen to be a strong subscriber to the eat-wake time- sleep- schedule (Babywise), which allows one to be pretty accurate in predicting when it is time for him to sleep - therefore, if he does fuss a bit when I put him down, it is never for more than 5 - 10 minutes because I know he is tired and will fall asleep). Just in case you are wondering, my 3 1/2 yr old was breastfed until 14 mos and my 5 mo old has been only breastfed until this point. Best of luck to you - I think the best mommy is a well-rested mommy, and even though it might be a little rough during the transition, the best thing you can do is get your little ones to be able to fall asleep on their own. Lisa

I think five months is old enough to let a baby cry it out. My first was sleeping through the night at that age, so I think they are certainly capable physically. The other equally important part of this equation is when are *you* ready to let the baby cry it out. If you are up for it, then give it a try. And shame on anyone who would make the mother of a 3yo, 2yo and 5mo feel guilty about trying it. Anon

I wanted to let you know that we let our daughter cry it out at 6 months and it worked beautifully. After one awful evening (1.5 hours of crying) she slept through the night. The second night she cried for 20 minutes and then after that just a few minutes or none to fall asleep. At nearly 2 years old, she is a wonderful, well- adjusted child and I have absolutely no evidence that ''crying it out'' traumatized her in any way. In fact, I'm convinced that learning to get a full night's sleep was much better for her. In retrospect, I would have done it a month sooner. I think you should try it now. With three little kids to care for, you need your sleep! This mom supports you 100%

You are pretty amazing to be a Mom right now to that many babies- give yourself a hand. I only have a 1 yr old, and the sleep thing has been the most difficult and frustrating thing for both me and my husband. You know alot about kids by now, so just trust your instinct about this baby. Our guy just was not ready to sleep through the night until he was around 11 months old. It was really awful, because I work part-time doing physically demanding work and my husband works full time and has to be up very early and we both really need our sleep. However, our son did not seem to realize this! We tried all the books, all the ''methods'' and the ''crying it out'' thing. We just ended up trusting out instincts, too, after a while. We would go through the bedtime routine, kiss him and his stuffed animals, and place him in the crib with his nightlight/music. He would cry almost every time, but it depended on the sound and length of the cry as to what would happen next. If he cried for more than 10 or so minutes, or if it became that frantic, hair-raising crying that they can do, we immediately went in and picked him up and let him fall asleep with us, primarily because we really couldn't mess around anymore and miss our sleep. At about 9 months old, he started to cry for only a few minutes and get to sleep in the crib about 80% of the time. At 10 months, he went to sleep almost 100% of the time with only 2-3 minutes of crying and he needed much less rocking, nursing, etc to be successful. At 11 months, something in him matured, so that we can cuddle, nurse, read for 5 minutes, put him in the crib fairly awake, and he will play for up to 30 minutes with his stuffed animals and then go to sleep on his own without any tears. I think that each baby has a particular personality at birth, and this influences the baby's sleeping patterns more than most parents realize. Other parents have criticized us for rewarding our guy for crying by allowing him to come into bed with us. But you know what, he is our son, and there is no way I would let him cry alone in that crib feeling totally deserted and alone. The first year goes by so quickly, and now, we have a loving, secure and very outgoing toddler who loves his crib and falls asleep easily. Good luck to you, it is so difficult, but the end result is way worth it! lou

We started at 4 months, trying to get down to only 2 wake- up/nursings a night, and then went cold turkey at 9 months. If I had to do it over again, I'd wait till about 6 months and go cold turkey.

I am the mother of twins, and was anxious to use the CIO method with my kids in the hope that they and we would get some sleep and be saner!! The books say to wait until 6 mo., but we tried successfully at 4 mo. The first night was terrible, because I was listening to them cry in there. After about 35 minutes (going in at the pre-determined times to comfort briefly), they went to sleep. The next night, it took 20 minutes. The next night, there was no crying! They have been great going-to-sleepers ever since (with the exception of when they are sick, or once when we traveled). I have friends who didn't have it so easy (it took many more nights, and a lot more crying), so prepare yourself! Personally, I think it is an important skill for children to have, and not cruel at all--makes them (and parents) much more well rested and better able to learn and play together. I can't imagine having a go-to-bed battle every night. In our house, once they are in bed, they either go to sleep immediately, or occasionally they will play quietly for a few minutes because they aren't quite ready to sleep yet. I think we tried much earlier than if we only had one child--twins are quite a challenge--but hopefully our positive experience will give you courage to try now. Two keys: be very consistent--don't chicken out and pick your child up; and have a consistent bed time routine (ours is bath, bottle, book, bed). Good luck! CIO OK Mom

Hello Mama, Five months is a fine age to start the ''crying it out'' method which I assume you are meaning the ''Ferber'' method. It is important to remember that it is not prudent to attempt this before the baby is 12-15 pounds and a minimum of 12 weeks (adjusted if your baby was a preemie). I run workshops for new mothers of twins and also have a consulting service that helps parents teach their babies good sleep habits, and I nearly always employ Richard Ferber's method. You will have success if you properly understand his methodology and commit to following it. If you don't have his book, you should get it and read it before starting so that you know exactly what ''crying it out'' means. That is the first step for success. Good luck and pleasant dreams!!! Karen

Our doctor gave us some advice when our little one was only a couple of months old (she's now 18 months) -- 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off. When your 5 month old goes down, spend 20 minutes doing everything that makes him happy and comfy to try to have him sleep. After 20 minutes, let him try on his own. This may mean crying it out. If he's still crying after 20 minutes, go back in for 20 minutes and do everything you can again...and continue this pattern. I had a hard time going the full 20 minutes off, at first, so I'd do what I could and build up. We learned that if our daughter was still really upset after about 12-15 minutes, she wouldn't go down, so we ended up doing more of a 15 on, 15 off. We have almost never gone in more than twice since she was a few months old. Good luck!! Beth

You say you have every book...did you read ''Secrets of the Baby Whisper...How to calm, connect and communicate with your Baby''? I found this book to be the most helpful for me in teaching my daughter to fall asleep on her own. better than crying it out

Advice for the mom who wants to know if a 5-month old is too young to ''cry it out.'' Nope, that's a really good time to do it as it only gets more difficult the older they get. We did this with our 5-month old in May and I am SO VERY glad! It was hard and I felt guilty, but now I am well-rested, my son goes to sleep without crying and our entire family is happy & sound sleepers. I HIGHLY recommend you do it! well-rested & happy now

We started our baby on a sleep routine around 3 months and let her start crying it out at 4 months, essentially following the recommendations laid out in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. This worked for us. The first week our daughter cried for about 45 minutes before going to sleep. The next week 20 minutes, now it she usually cries for 5-10 minutes. This was a life saver for me as I was spending three hours or so rocking her to sleep every night. anon

You can let your baby cry it out at 5 months. I am also a mother of 3 (9 months, 2, and 4), and have also read obsessively about this. Every pediatrician I've talked to says that when they weigh 12 lbs, they can make it through the night without eating. With our first kid, we waited for 9 months before going through this. With our second kid, we got her down to one night feeding at 6 months, and sleeping all night at 11 months. With our 3rd, there was no fooling around! We let him cry it out at 5 months. It's just a few bad nights (less than 4 in each case for us.) There were a few ''tune-ups'' after the initial success, but even those nights were better for me than the regular getting up and nursing.

You just have to change the way you're thinking about it. With our first, I was a sap. ''oh, she's scared, it's dark, she's lonely, she wants me, I'm breaking her heart.'' Similarly with our second. But with our third, I had come around to the logic of ''you're giving your baby a gift by teaching them to soothe themselves.'' Also, after the first two, I realized that I would eventually have to let them cry it out, and everyone agrees that the sooner you do it, the easier it is. Last, but certainly not least, you need a good night's sleep. True with one, truer with two, absolutely essential with three.

Now all 3 of my kids are great sleepers, our whole family is better rested and happier, I'm much nicer than I was when the baby was waking up at night. It's a Win-Win-Win. CIO works

My daughter is almost 3 (years old) and I still don't think it's OK to ignore her needs and let her cry out. anon

I know that the original poster made it clear that she wasn't looking for a discussion of whether or not the CIO method is desirable. However, one respondent wrote that ''after the first two, I realized that I would eventually have to let them cry it out.'' I wanted to point out you don't have to choose this method to teach children to sleep, though you may wish to. My 2 1/2 year old daughter never ''cried it out'' and she sleeps through the night just fine.

I think that there is a discrepancy as to what people think ''crying it out'' is. Crying it out does not have to mean letting your child scream their head off in the bedroom while you try to ignore it in the living room. I let me daughter cry it out when she was 11 months old, but not by leaving her alone. First, I weaned her from evening nursing. I still kept the morning, but nothing more. The first night, I told her it was time for bed and laid her down in her crib. She stood up and screamed. I stayed with her the entire time and just kept lying her back down and gently saying ''It's time for bed now, lay down''. I never got excited or angry. I kept the same even tone of voice and every time she stood up, I laid her back down. It was awful, but I was there with her, helping her to get through this. When she finally didn't stand up anymore, I patted her back until she fell asleep. The first night, she cried for 2 hours, the next night, 20 minutes. For about a month after that, I sat in her room for about 10 minutes while she fell asleep (she didn't cry). Now, she sleeps from 7:30pm to 7:30 am with a 2 hour nap during the day at 21 months.

The other thing I think this helped was that she stopped waking up in the middle of the night after the first night! I think once babies learn to fall asleep by themselves, when they wake up in the middle of the night, they are able to put thenmselves back to sleep without having to cry for ''help'' falling back to sleep. --been there

We just started sleep training with our 6 mo old by doing a very modified version of CIO. When she cries and it is not feeding time we go to her, pat her, rub her back or just say ''you are ok''. We do not do this constantly but only every few minutes or so and we also do not leave the room. We sit right next to her crib but don't make eye contact or really engage with her. This is so that she can learn to soothe herself. We do the same thing when she goes down for naps and cries at first. We have gotten great results with this and each time it is getting better. She feels secure but is really learning to self soothe with less and less intervention from us. Leaving her alone in the room felt too disconnected for us and we found anytime we went back in she just escalated so this seems to be the best way. Good luck

How long to let 2-year-old cry it out?

April 2004

Help! We had been lying down next to our 2-year-old (she in her crib, we on the floor) to get her to sleep but were growing increasingly tired of the whole process, which took close to two hours. We always follow the same routine -- bath, teeth brush, bottle. To make matters worse, she was sick for more than a week and during that time required us to give her additional bottles and rock her to sleep, so now lying down next to her to get her to sleep no longer works. Instead, she demands more water. I don't think she's really thristy. She just wants mom and dad to hold her and give her the bottle. This is increasingly difficult for me when my husband has to work late because I am 5 months pregnant. We decided after talking to our pediatrician and reading ''Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child'' and Ferber's book to let her ''cry it out.'' The first time we did the Ferber method and she cried starting at 7:30 and was still crying at midnight! We decided it wasn't working. Our pediatrician thought perhaps going in to check per the Ferber plan was setting her off so we tried again without going in (although listening through the moniter to make sure she was OK) Again she was still crying and fussing at midnight and we went in to get her to sleep so that we could sleep. During the whole process, she actually cries a bit and then it's silent for a few minutes so she doesn't seem to get tired. In all the examples in the books, no child cries more than 3 hours. Has anyone had this experience with the cry it out method? Will she eventually go to sleep? Will it be worth it in the end? We don't know what else to do. frustruated parent

dear frusterated parent, we too read the same book, healthy sleep habits...when our daughter was 2 b/c we were desperate to sleep through the night. we let her cry it out on night one and returned her to her bed at least 75 times within 2 hrs without making any eye contact or speaking, at the end of 2 hrs. we closed her door to prevent it from happening anymore and she eventually went to sleep. Night 2 was the same but decreased in half and by night 3 she was going to sleep on her own with the door ajar. She still sleeps with us when she's sick though. It was pretty incredible and we couldn't believe we hadn't done it sooner. With all that said, the same methods doen't work for every child and personality type. I would consider setting a limit of days you felt comfortable with to see if this technique works for you. We felt comfortable with trying it by the book for a week max b/c it is torture to listen to your child wail. Best of luck to you! Jss jss

I think the older the child is, the longer it is going to take to teach her to go to sleep on her own. Try the book ''Secrets of the Baby Whisperer, et al.'' By Tracy Hogg. She has a book for both Babies and Toddlers. I suggest you read both (they're relatively easy reads, and she ads some british humor)so you understand her style fully, and then take what you need from it. It may take you several weeks to get your daughter to go to sleep on her own, but if you don't stick to it, you won't have accomplished anything. My almot 13 y.o. still needs something (parent, TV etc.) to go to sleep and my almost 3 y.o. doesn't b/c I read these books. Been There

You sound like such caring parents! This can be a very vexing problem, because children are so intimately in tune with parental energy that they ''work'' us. Your child has had experience, recently, that you will continue to give energy at the going-to-bed time and so is continuing to ''milk'' this situation. In my experience, you *must* allow her to ''cry it out'' in order to get back on track, where she goes to sleep without turning you and your husband into ''pretzels.'' One of the things I have done is to explain to my child (no matter how young) what I will be doing and why, then stick to the plan without fail! Any deviation from the plan you set out will only make the process take longer. Friends who lived communally several years ago had a child who could cry up to 4 hours (he had been ''trained'' by having various adults go in to check on him when they ran out of patience listening to him cry). On my suggestion, all the adults explained to him what they were going to do, then followed the plan. The first night he cried for 6 hours! Within a week, he was sleeping peacefully and going to bed easily. My best. Ilene

I had your experience with CIO too--although I didn't stick it out even as long as you did. I speed-read Weissbluth's book, only went in maybe 2 times in 3.5 hours, but at midnight, I went in and got my son. Like your daughter, he cried in spurts, but every time I went to check on him, he wasn't lying down, but sleeping standing up, with his elbow hooked over the side of the crib! --and then he'd wake up and cry some more for me. Weissbluth has an upper-limit on time for CIO, but only for younger ages. He has NO limit for older ages (starting at 2, I think). I decided CIO doesn't work for our family. I strongly believe that it works for some families and not for others.

One thing that did work for our family after this was a very set routine--stories (books), 3 specific songs in specific order while rocking, then down for bed. It worked very well (but not 100% of the time), for a while, then things changed & I had to change the routine.

You might check into ''Secrets of the Baby Whisperer for Toddlers''. I think there is another non-CIO sleeping book. A funny note: during this period, I got childcare and went to one of the seminars at Bananas with Meg Zweiback, hoping for some good advice. I nearly cried when someone asked a sleep question and Meg answered that we wouldn't be covering sleep questions, as that was too vast a topic. I got some good ideas on other topics, but was SO upset by that answer! Good luck; that was a very hard time for me. Jennie, a single mom

My child doesn't do well with the ''cry it out method'' either. He will cry for four or more hours like your child. It's frustrating to read the books when they say that your child should be asleep after an hour or so. That's just not the case! We've tried doing all the things they say like putting them to bed while they are awake to teach them to fall asleep on their own, etc. But it's so awful when your kid is coughing and crying for 4 hours or so.. it feels so abusive even if the experts say its not. I used to get 3 or 4 hours of sleep and that was it! (and I'm a full time teacher). My son is now 16 months and we still deal with this. We decided it was easier to have him fall asleep with us than screaming in his crib. We just rock him to sleep with a great lullaby cd, then put him down while he's asleep. He used to not transfer very well, so we had to rub his back. Alot! When he wakes back up after a few hours we rock him again. On the good nights he doesn't wake up. That's about 50% of the time. I'm not sure if this helped at all, but at least you know you're not alone!! If you want a recommendation for the cd, email me. He has listened to it every night of his life and loves it! margaret

Wow -- I feel for you. I will be interested to hear from others who have struggled with similar issues with a 2 + year old. I have had these struggles with younger children only. However, I do have a friend who is working on similar issues with a 3 + year old and thought I might chime in a bit. I'm wondering if Ferber and Weissbluth systems aren't more suited to younger (prelanguage) children. I'm intrigued that your child is crying and not yelling for you and/or getting up (is she still in a a crib? that's a help, I think). That suggests she is tired and is trying to get to sleep. What you might try is a more gradual approach with lots of talk about what is happening (you're a big girl now, etc. --- apeall to whatever vanity she has). For example -- mommy will lie here until you sleep tonight, but tomorrow she'll just llie here for a few minutes and do that for a few days or a week and then mommy will sit here for a moment...etc. You may have already tried this kind of thing, but I thought I'd offer it for what it's worth. I haven't read it but people also rave about the ''no cry sleep solution'' by elizabeth pantley. (not sure of spelling). Please don't feel criticized -- I've let all three of my kids ''cry it out'' so I'm not judging you, just trying to help you find something that works! sabrina

Instead of letting our daughter *cry it out*, we tried a method recommended by our pediatrician. First, we did the bedtime routine and then laid her in her crib. She was old enough to stand up, so as soon as we laid her down, she would stand back up. I spent hours the first night laying her back down as soon as she stood up. I would say ''It's time to go to sleep now, lay down, mommy's right here.'' She was screaming, but she knew I was there. It took a few hours that first night to continue to lay her back down as soon as she stood up and it was awful. Finally, she got the point and didn't try to get back up. The next night it was only an hour, and now I sit in her room until she falls asleep, which is usually only about 10 minutes. If she diverts back to standing up and crying, I go over and lay her back down gently and she remembers the drill. I think it worked better than just letting her cry b/c she knew I was still there and hadn't abandoned her. Good luck!!

I know exactly what you are going through, because we also did the ''cry it out'' method. First, let me say that we have three children, and all three were different. So, what works perfectly for one may simply not work for the other. That being said, I will admit that we did learn with each child. That is, we, too slept on the floor with our first baby, sat with her, rocked her, and it was exhausting! She never slept with us, as neither she nor we enjoyed it nor could any of us sleep in a ''family bed.'' We did NOT sleep on the floor with the other two! Here is what we found:
1. Babies and children are creatures of habit.
2. They CAN sleep alone, and can do so happily.
3. You cannot give up. Don't start the ''cry it out'' process until you are committed to making it work and sticking with it, because if you give in, you have to start over the next time.
4. Tell you baby before she goes to sleep that you will not sleep on her floor, and that she must sleep in her crib. Tell her that you will come in and check on her. Give her some warning during the day of what you expect during the night, and what she can expect. For some babies/children, the cry-it-out method works perfectly. For others, you must go in and rub their back or something additional. Find out what works for you and your baby. I really tried to NOT go in, but it was just too hard for me to hear my baby cry. I sent my husband in instead. For some reason, the babies respond much better to my husband, who would go in and tell them firmly but lovingly that they must go to sleep, and no more crying. I would not go in.
5. For our first baby, it took at least a week for her to get the hang of it; for our third baby, it took two days. Everyone sleeps through the night now, our babies loved their cribs and found them to be a place of comfort (our two year old asks to go in his crib when he is tired, or when he is having a temper tantrum. He never wakes up during the night).
6. It works, and they do stop crying. This will all become a distant memory, and then you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner! Mary

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