Our 7mo is waking many times at night

We love co-sleeping with our wonderful 7-month old son, but he continues to have great difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. We have tried everything from a modified version of Ferber (didn't work at all for us) to cranio-sacral massage (our current and most promising effort). Aletha Solter's ("The Aware Baby") ideas on holding babies while they cry have also been somewhat helpful. But Eli still wakes up many times every night (sometimes 3-4 times in the first 2 hours), and it usually takes 30min to an hour to get him to sleep (often for a nap that only lasts 20-30 minutes).

Most of what I've read on sharing sleep suggests it as a way of solving sleep problems. We do it because of the positive impact on our relationship with our baby, and because it helps a bit, but it certainly doesn't solve our problems. Are there others out there who co-sleep and still have major sleep problems? Have you found anything that really helps? Thanks, Wende

As for your second posting, we have a set-up that has worked really well. We have the crib in a sidecar arrangement with the non-sliding side removed. When our daughter is sleeping alone in her crib, we insert the detached side between the crib mattress and our mattress and attach it with string at the top to the crib frame. I moved our mattress slightly off the box spring and slid cardboard under both mattresses to make a bridge to hold the crib side up. Then when we get into bed we just take the crib side off or slide it down toward the foot of the bed (which is nice because it blocks the open side between the foot of the crib and the foot of the bed). This can be done easily and quietly. I usually nurse or pat her down to sleep lying on the bed while she's in the crib, and then once she's fallen asleep I slide the crib side into place. Good luck! Phyllida

For what it is worth, I think co-sleeping is well intentioned, but it doesn't work for most people, especially if both parents work or if the parent that stays home has a lot to do, and finally if the child is going to eventually go into daycare. I went through about two nights of letting her cry it out when she was 6 months old because I was waking 3-4 times a night. I work full-time and couldn't function well at work. Before we tried this, I was worried that not comforting or not rocking my daughter to sleep would make me a bad mom, and there is a lot of social pressure in Bay Area parenting circles that advocates co-sleeping and implies that you are a bad parent if you let your child cry. I now believe that you are placing your child at a disadvantage when they get to daycare and they cannot put themselves to sleep. When you aren't around, the child really suffers. Also, if there is an emergency and you or your husband can't get to your child for a number of hours, your child really suffers. My daughter doesn't, but our family did for the two nights it took us to allow her to cry so that she could learn that we were not going to pick her up or bring her to bed with us to help her sleep. She learned to get her pacifier or play with her blankie until she nodded off.

When we travel, she sleeps with us. When we get home, we go back to our routine, and if she has to cry it out, I let her. Usually, on our first night home, she cries for about 5 seconds, stops and listens (I hear her playing with her crib toys), then cries again to see if we are coming. She may do this for about 10-15 minutes. The next night, she sleeps 7-9 hours. Every morning, I wake up at 5 AM and she wakes at 5:30. She nurses and we enjoy time together in our bed to play after she has her milk. I get into work early enough so that I'm out by 3 PM so that I can get as many of her awake hours as possible so that I can parent her instead of our daycare provider. She goes to bed between 7-9 PM, and we are happy and lack the stress that I hear about and see in so many families that are afraid of being bad parents because they let their baby cry. You are not a bad parent if you try this method - you are teaching the first lesson of independence that every person must learn in our society at some point - and you do not create a dysfunctional, anti-social, unintelligent, physically stunted infant in the process. Your baby will still be wonderful, and even better, if he gets some sleep and learns to sleep independent of you.

Now, at nine months, he's reverted to waking again every two to three hours, probably because I started nursing him at night a few times, in moments of weakness. So this week I began the modified Ferber program again, and he's already starting to settle himself back down. That is, I go in every five minutes, straighten his blanket, give him his little giraffe, stroke his face, and then cheerfully say, "time for sleep!" and leave. He usually settles down within five mintues.

I love sleeping with babies, and I think the family bed is especially great for newborns, who need so much body contact. But in order to be able to work and be a decent wife and mother, I find it's better for my children to sleep most of the night alone.

My daughter still sleeps with us at 18 months. When she became more active at 7-9 months the advice was to put her in a crib, but I didn't want to and fortunately I also found advice to put a pillow between her kicking little feet and my ribs which helped a lot. It turned out to be a brief phase. Then when she was 14-16 months she began waking every two hours to nurse. This got old! So, we sought advice from other co-sleepers and the La Leche League. We went with a system where baby and dad sleep together for the first part of the night and mom sleeps elsewhere. It was very hard for the first few nights, she cried a lot. But I felt better knowing that she was not alone, she was with her dad. We slowly extended the no-mommy-no-nursing time. Now she goes without nursing until 5 am, at which point I return to the bed. Seven hours of uninterupted sleep is bliss! Our plan is for me to return to the bed next and work on no-nursing while I'm there. Now that she's older and more verbal it's easier to explain that mommy's breasts are asleep and she needs to wait, please put your head on the pillow and close your eyes, rest, etc. . .

I have one major problem with the cry-it-out-alone advice. I don't know how exactly one could tell the difference between a child who has mastered the important skill of putting oneself to sleep and a child who has learned that there is no point in crying because her parents can't/won't come. It just reminds me too much of college psychology and the concept of "learned helplessness" - an animal who learns that it's actions cannot effect it's circumstances (turning off a painful shock for example) gives up trying, and also exhibits behaviors that look like depression. I have no doubt that Ferberization works, but how?

Also, even though my daughter has been nursed to sleep by me for her entire life, when I'm gone to evening classes, she goes to sleep for her father without a fuss at all (he used to use the stroller), and she has gone to sleep for other caregivers also without a fuss. Fear that the child may never be able to fall asleep by herself/for other people may be unfounded.

The bottom line is you may think you doing something great now, but you may end regretting it in the long run. If you are not getting enough sleep, neither is your baby, something that is so vital in the first few years of life. Bonding with your child is even better when they are awake and happy, not tired and cranky. Maybe try putting your child in the crib next to you at night for awile and at least you can see each other through the night. See how much sleep you are all getting and decide if maybe it is better to keep him in your bed or his. -Kerri

Those who have had great success with Ferber sometimes find it hard to believe that it doesn't work for everyone. Even I assumed that when it doesn't work well, the parents must not be doing something right -- until I met my son. I am a psychologist with many years of training and experience as a behavior specialist, and am well-versed in the principles of reinforcement on which these methods are based. And still, it didn't work for us. For those who tried Ferber and were successful in 3 nights - or even a week - I say, you are very lucky to have found something that worked so quickly. There are others who try it for much longer, with very limited success. A friend of mine did it for 6 months before the crying finally tapered off from 1.5-2 hours down to 15-30 minutes. Even radical behaviorists will acknowledge that when the resources required to change a behavior are too great, then the benefits are not worth it. For us, continuing with Ferber would mean crying as a way of life, and we believe that is just not right for us or for our baby.

Even though we still have problems, we settled on co-sleeping because it is MORE effective for us. Our baby sleeps much more now than when he was in his own bed.

Finally, I want to suggest that sleep is not purely a parenting issue. There is so much judgment out there, and when a parent is struggling with an infant sleep problem, that is the last thing he/she needs. Sometimes you can do everything right, and your baby still won't sleep. Wende

I confess that I am not a fan of the cry it out ideas, where ever they come from , Ferber or not, but I know that for some families they have found that (hopefully some modified and kind version of) this works for them. I don't think those families should assume that it will work with other babies and for other families as it did for theirs.. and that families that don't try this are unnecessarily suffering or are missing the correct parenting boat. I also begin to think that co-sleeping is right for every family! But for many, especailly in the first 3-4 months it can be a really nice way to meet a baby's needs and can allow for moms to get a bit more sleep. If it doesn't work for you or your family, if it doesn't feel right to you, whatever the idea or approach... trust yourself and DON'T DO IT!!

I don't think babies that are very young benefit from crying without comfort and it does take time to be able to self comfort, from that point on each family will have to decide what works best for them. We should celebrate and embrace this diversity of approaches as we try to different people rather than let this be so devisive and issue!

I find that up to six months is pretty flexible and that you can gradually introduce the crib starting with naps and/or the first longer stretch of sleep and then bring them to bed with that long stretch over time getting longer. If this doesn't work, I'm sorry but you will through experimentation find the solution that is best at the time for your family. Don't forget to try things again, just because somthing doesn't work the first time it doesn't mean that it won't in the future best of luck getting as much sleep as possible!! Jennifer

FYI & BTW, I also (unsuccessfully) tried a modified "cry it out method" for his naptime in the crib--I ditto the opinion that the Ferber method doesn't work for everyone. And I know plenty of families who "Ferberized" their infants and later on had lots of trouble getting kids to bed and keeping them in bed. Sleep and kids can be challenging no matter what, and things are always changing.

We did have another success story--with our first born we successfully weaned him from night nursing while maintaining the family bed--my husband held and cuddled him while he cried, and this took about 3 nights--but he was over 18 mos. and seemed ready at the time, so this might not be as easy with a younger baby, but is worth trying.