What age do children with August birthdays start K?

Hi, I will be moving to the Bay area, with my two children in October and I'm very confused about what age children there actually start school. My son is 4 and was born in March 2008, here (in the UK) he has already started school (just), and as I understand it he will go back to some kind of Pre K programme over there and then begin Kindergarten in the August of 2013 at age five. My daughter has an August birthday (August 23rd), will she start kindergarten in August 2015, just as she turns 5, or in August 2016, just as she turns 6? What is the cut off date? Sorry for the rather confused question, but I'm just trying to get things straight in my mind. Thanks, Catherine

Redshirting-why?!

Having just moved to the Bay Area with children in elementary school, I'm a bit perplexed by this ''redshirting'' that seems quite popular in our local public school. In our old district, the max age span between children in the same grade was 12 months, but some of the students in my children's current grades are 18 months older than my kids! That's actually the age gap between my 2nd and 3rd children who are two years apart in school. My daughter came home upset because some of her classmates see a separate math teacher who gives them more challenging work...obviously-they are much older than she is. I think what upset her was a comment from the children who said ''the math teacher is for smart kids, and you aren't''. Although our daughter receives the highest grades, I told her that was the work her older brother was doing in his 5th grade class because he is the same age (or a few months apart) from her classmates. I've tried to find some information about the pros/cons of redshirting, but there is a lot of information from both sides of the spectrum. As someone with children who are in the above average category, it's frustrating to have such older children in the class, not only for the teachers having to teach with such a wide gap, but for the other students as well. Anyone have any input or similar experiences in their school? anon

5 or 6 for kindergarten?

My little girl will be 5 in July. Should she start KG or wait until next year when she is 6? She will be the youngest in her class if 5 and oldest if 6. Her school recommends holding kids back if they have summer or fall birthdays.

Parents of kids on the verge of Kindergarten, I implore you to consider the long-term impacts of your decision. State standards and excessive testing have turned Kindergarten curriculum into 1st grade. Any elementary school teacher will tell you that. Ask yourself if your child is ready for 1st grade at 4 (or even a young 5). Also ask yourself if you want him/her to start junior high at 10.

At our first parent-teacher conference in kindergarten, we grilled the kindergarten teacher on how he was doing -- socially and academically, and whether we should have waited a year or should consider having our son repeat kindergarten. His teacher, who had over two decades of kindergarten teaching experience, assured us that our son was right on target and that there was no question he was kindergarten ready and in the correct grade.

In first grade, we noticed that our son was right in the middle of the pack in terms of reading, but that there were many girls who were quite advanced, and we worried again. Other than the reading, he seemed to be doing fine, but we wondered if we should have waited to give him that ''jump start'' that others talked about.

At the beginning of second grade, the reading clicked and he became a voracious reader. He's now in seventh grade and still one of the smallest kids in his class. It doesn't bother him a bit because he focuses on academics and not sports. He's doing exceptionally well in 7th grade -- including in an advanced algebra class. Many of his close friends who are also doing extremely well in middle school also have August, or even fall, birthdays.

This is not to say that there is not some correlation between a late birthday and struggles in school; it is to point out that the correlation does not apply across the board and it depends on each child. Some kids with late birthdays are very strong all through school, and some kids with late birthdays are not. The same can be said of kids with early birthdays, or kids who are ''held back'' a year. It all depends on your child and if you think that your child is ready to start kindergarten, your child probably is. And if it turns out that you made a mistake and your child needs to repeat kindergarten again, it's not the end of the world.

Having watched my son go from kindergarten to 7th grade with many of the same students, and having volunteered in his classroom over the years, I have observed some correlation between the kids who were unable to focus or to do the classwork in kindergarten and first grade and those who struggle in middle school. This correlation seems to be more direct than any correlation between age and middle school academics.

Unfortunately, many parents fight recommendations to hold back students in the early years because of a ''stigma'' that they think is associated with it. (My mother taught first grade and ran into this issue every year, and a child canot be retained without parental agreement.) I admire those parents who opt to have their students repeat kindergarten or first grade because they are putting the interests of their child first -- and not worrying that other parents are judging them or their child by how they did in kindergarten or first grade. (At my children's elementary school, the kids on the playground really don't care and quickly forget who repeated kindergarten or first grade, even though there are a couple of such students each year.) -Good luck with your decision

There are other factors at play in this correlation, not the least of which is that households who are economically challenged are not as likely to pay for that pricey Bridge-K program or an extra year of preschool.

Unfortunately, there is no optimal time for a child born between May and November to enter Kindergarten in our community. Parents who simply seek academic advantage for their children by holding a child with a June birthday back create issues for the rest of our kids. The parents of a child born in July should not have to fear that their child will be the youngest in the class! And a 5 year old entering kindergarten should not have to face a room filled with tall, bored 6.5 year old boys.

Based on the responding teacher's comments, I conclude that any kids who are the youngest in their class will trail the others academically and socially. So what is the solution? Is it really possible to have everyone's child be among the oldest, or even near the average, in a classroom? fed up with redshirting

Age of kindergarten boys in Berkeley pub schools

My son will turn 5 in August, and I hear that things have changed since I was in school. I'm wondering if any current BUSD parents could tell me what the typical age range is for kids starting kindergarten now. A friend who lives elsewhere told me that in her district most boys with summer birthdays are held until the next year, so if we lived where she was, he'd be an outlier. Is this true in Berkeley, too? confused mom

For what it is worth, I am really grateful that my son got to have a terrific last year at preschool where things gelled for him socially. My particular child would have had a really hard kindergarten year had he gone in almost-5. I just couldn't find any reason to risk his first year of ''education'' with those odds.

Now, to the other side! My 5 year old nephew in Portland (who turned 5 in August) started kindergarten a month after his birthday and is having a terrific time. He's also a really social, gregarious, only child and he was really ready. It can feel like a really daunting decision and I wish you the best. Good luck.

Oct birthday - Kindergarten or another year of preschool?

Every day I go back and forth about deciding to send my October birthday 4 year old to Kindergarten or go to a Pre-K program and send her next year. Looking ahead, I would like her to learn to drive as a junior in high school, and graduated when she is 17 almost 18 rather than 18 almost 19 Any words of wisdom out there? Patty

If you feel your daugher is ready socially and academically then enroll her now, but if not then another year may give her an advantage over her class when she starts K. And remember she can always be skipped up a grade but no one wants to be held back. Talk it over with her preschool teacher but ultimately you call the shot. Hope this helps. ENS

We are finishing our ''extra'' year in a preschool, and are very glad we did. Our son ''could have'' gone, but we, and his teachers, sincerely believe that he benefitted from this extra year. His confidence has blossomed, and he's developed more refined social skills as a result. Academically, he's right on track, if not ahead; that was never a concern for us, and between his school and what we do at home we've kept him engaged and challenged.

From what I've seen, girls are *generally* more socially- developed at this age, and can focus for longer periods of time, but I don't know of any girls from our preschool entering kindergarten in the fall who will be under 4 1/2 as of Sept. I have to add that I do believe in giving kids as much time to be kids as possible; it's a bit trite, but every kindergarten teacher I've spoken with has reiterated the same thing. They have seen how much kindergarten has changed over the last 10 years and as most of them are parents too, understand that extra pressures brought to bear on children and families as a result.

Yes, our son will be among the older kids, but it is common enough (esp. among boys) that he is not going to be an odd man out because of his age. I personally don't have a preference as to when my child learns to drive or graduates as long as he's thriving. . You don't mention if you've spoken with your daughter's current teacher; that obviously is a good place to start. Our school does assessments (administered in a very low- key manner) and follow-up meetings with parents to discuss. Teachers have a context for your child's readiness that parents don't, so if your school doesn't offer this, ask for it. Visit the kindergarten she would go to, and consider her friends: are they going now or are they going next year? Finally, trust your instinct and your child. Worth the wait

I hate to sound cynical, or like I'm making excuses, but I suspect (some parents have stated it straight out) that some people put their kids through an extra year of pre-k so their child will have the ''advantage'' of being ''on top'' come grade school and beyond. But honestly, I do believe that the playing field does even out after the first couple years or so. My mother graduated from highschool at 15, and she said she had no problems, socially or otherwise, except that she had no boobs and could not drive. (Selective memory? Who knows. ;-) I would really try not to worry about it. With your encouragement and involvement, your child will be fine whether they start K at 5 or 6. anon

Girls especially are under a lot of social pressure these days, and it only gets worse as they go through each grade. I am stunned at times by the things kids talk about now, not to mention the demands of the curriculum.

My daughter is one of the older kids in her class. She is by far one of the more mature leaders and has not fallen prey to some of the incredible social pressures that kids have today. Even in younger grades, girls can be mean and manipulative and run in like packs. Giving my daughter a bit more time to develop her leadership and coping skills has really been helpful to her and I'm sure it will even become more apparent as she goes through each grade. She is very self-assured, self- aware and compassionate at the same time, and I honestly don't think she would be the same girl had I sent her to school at an earlier age than most of her peers. She's also one of the more popular kids and many teachers (not just hers) have high praise for her social and leadership skills. She just doesn't feel pressured to simply fall in with the crowd and instead is a fun and confident example. This is really something that I know will grow even more important each year.

This is a personal decision, of course, and I only speak from my perspective. If your daughter is happy in preschool and the teachers there can keep her engaged, then the extra year will allow her to enter kindergarten as more of a leader than she may otherwise be. And as she goes through the rest of the grades, she may likely be more prepared to make thoughtful decisions and be less likely to fall prey to peer pressure. Good luck in making a thoughtful decision. Mom of the Class Leader

What will the impact be-- socially, or on her self esteem-- when your child goes through puberty, perhaps earlier than others? Or do you want your freshman in high school driving? Do you want your 18 year old to be able to sign himself out of school when he's a junior or early in his senior year? Will being a bit older be an issue in the kinds of relationships she chooses in high school? I am a high school teacher and yes-- there is an enormous difference between the bodies and even the developmental abilities of 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 , 18 and even 19 year olds. I've seen kids all these ages experience high school, and I sometimes wonder if parents think about the consequences of this choice on their children as teens. They may want their child to be bigger or ''smarter'' when they are 5, but school goes on for a lot of years after that.

Having said all that, I do think that others are certainly correct in saying that the answer differs based on the individual child, and that you should probably listen to the advice of your child's preschool teacher... but I do think these choices should be made based on true ( and realistic) emotional and academic needs... not based on the desire to somehow get an advantage, because that is such a short term choice, and it may not play itself out the way you think it might in years to come. - Just my two cents

I have two kids with late summer birthdays. One I can tell will go straight into Kindergarten with the other kids his age. The other one did a year of DK and it was the best decision ever. Her social skills skyrocketed with the extra year and now I feel great about her starting Kindergarten. If you put your kid in with fingers crossed, and a problem develops in 2nd or 3rd grade that would have been solved by entering kindergarten late, you're SOL. It's devastating to repeat those grades. I also want to address the assumption that this is happening because the parents want bigger, smarter kids. In our case, that's ridiculous. We know she is smart already and she is a tall girl. She just would have totally struggled.

There was a NY Times article on this subject in the last year that was excellent. There were many statistics cited and the kids who started later did better in almost all respects: grades, acceptance to college, etc. I know three other kids repeating kindergarten now because they should have waited and didn't.

In short - do the research, talk to others and then follow your instincts and ignore what others say. Either way you go is OK. happy with our decision

Dec 14 birthday - any way to start OUSD at 4>

My son's birthday is December 14th. He is academically advanced (can spell, do basic math, and read some easy books) pretty social with other kids, and can sit still for long periods of time concentrating on whatever he is doing (drawing, playing games, reading books). He's not big or small, just average. I'm thinking he will be ready for Kindergarten when he is still 4. Granted, I need to check in with preschool teacher when the decision time has come, but everything I've read about parents who send their kids early and regret it, do so for reasons I don't think apply to him. Has anyone sent their child to to an Oakland public school with an after Dec 1 birthday before they were 5? If so, how did you do it (ie get approval) and how did it go? Thanks. -Oakland Mom

Now, next year, when you enroll your kid in K, you can get letters, examples of his work, etc. and try to have him put directly into 1st grade. At this point, the OUSD has to take him, so they may listen to you about advancing a grade.

I did this but it was a huge struggle; everyone at the OUSD and the principal of the school fought it. I had an outstanding case for why my kid should go directly into 1st and it was still close to impossible to make it happen.

Now my kid is thriving, socially, emotionally, and academically (best reader in the class by a wide margin), so I am glad I went for it. But make sure it's not just your opinion of your kid - preschool teachers, other people who know him should also be on your side (100%!).

Also, just fyi, I keep hearing that OUSD is considering moving the cutoff date back to September 1, so that may influence your decision. BTDT

Most schools strictly enforce the cut off. If you can swing it, you can find a private school that will admit him early and have him attend K at the private school. Then for first grade, even if he is young, the public school must admit him if he has completed Kindergarten.

Good luck! We are hoping to homeschool our 4 year-old through K, and then either continue homeschooling or have him enter with kids who are more nearly his intellectual peers rather then age-mates.

Can you homeschool? This is a great option for gifted children, especially if they have asynchronous development. Don't buy the delay line!

Our own son was always one of the oldest kids in class, and that's helped him through some rough spots over the years. He was very much on-time or ahead-of-time through third grade, as far as his learning, socialization and physical development went. He was very confident, helpful to the other kids, which we simply loved. When attempts were made to bully him, they only happened once per bully, because he was able to verbally and physically stick up for himself.

When his ADD became very obvious in the 4th grade, we knew that something was wrong almost immediately. I wonder if we would have attributed his learning problems to being behind in age if we had pushed him into school too early.

Now he's graduating from Berkeley High, and he's been able to do pretty well there. The cigarette and weed thing didn't pull on him as hard as it did on me, when I was trying to show how grown up I was. He's experimented a little, but decided it's not for him. If he felt as young as I always did, he might have tried more to 'up' his maturity quotient artificially.

When a guy's voice changes before the other guys, and his face starts looking manly, if not bearded, earlier too, it puts them ahead of the game. He's always been proud of his body, even when he was a skinny little wretch, probably because it was a more grown-up body than a lot of his buddies.

Even if your child's a genius, and you think he'll be bored in school, I'd recommend keeping him in class with other kids his same social and physical age. You'll be surprised at how a classful of kids will keep him interested, and how he'll find one or two things a challenge anyway. If he truly is bored, a good teacher will find extra material for his advanced level.

We're a little sorry our son's already heading off to college, and he started school 11 months behind most of his peers. If you can hang on to him for another year, try to! What's the rush? Kate S

Sending young 5 to kindgergarten

Is there anybody else out there who will be starting their son in kindergarten in the fall, despite a ''late'' birthday? My boy will not turn 5 until October, but my gut is that he is ready for kindergarten, although he is physically small (among the reasons often cited by acquaintances for delaying entry to kindergarten). At any rate, my big concern now is that given the fact that so many children are being held back a year, he will probably be a full year younger than some kids. Anybody else out there in my boat? anxious about bucking the trend

That being said, I know many, many people who have regretted starting their children too early (for several of them, those regrets did not come until their child was in middle school and their social development was out of step with their classmates'). I know none who have that same kind of regret for having waited a year to start their child in school. The primary concern, from my point of view is the child's social development. The reality is that in any given class, there will always be a wide range of academic skills and that even an academically advanced child who waits until they are six to start kindergarten is likely to have academic peers in their class. Also, if the school is doing it's job well (and I believe many in this area are), the students will be taught in a way where they can access the curriculum at a variety of levels. If you steer clear of classrooms where all children are expected to be on the same page at the same time, read at the same level, and solve math problems using the same 3 steps, then the notion of your child being ''bored'' should not be a concern.

In addition to talking to your child's preschool teachers,I would also look carefully at your child's social interactions and friendships to see which cohort of students it makes most sense to start kindergarten with. While it is true that a second year of kindergarten by no means carries the stigma it once did, and that kids at that age do have the ability to adjust well if the situation is presented to them well, not starting kindergarten is ALWAYS smoother and easier on all concerned than repeating it. So, if you have any serious concerns about your child's readiness, my advice is to wait a year. If, on the other hand, you feel confident that your son is ready for kindergarten socially and emotionally as well as academically, go for it. Currently A Kindergarten Teacher

Age to enter kindergarten-Oakland

I think I'm confused about how old a child needs to be to enter kindergarten in Oakland. I always though the cut off was Dec 1, meaning that a child has to turn 5 on or before Dec 1 in the year that enters kindergarten. A friend recently told me that she was told by an Oakland school that a child need only turn 5 by March meaning a child with a mid December birthday can enter when they are 4. I've checked the Oakland Unified website, but couldn't find it there. I've emailed/called without response. What's correct and where can I see it in writing? Confused mom.

January birthday - private school?

Hi. Alameda school district has a cut off date of 12/5 for public schools. So any child who wants to attend kindergarten in fall of 2008, for example, must turn 5 by 12/5 of 2007. Unfortunately, my daughter's birthday is in Jan. She's only 3 now but I'm looking ahead and thinking by the time she can attend a public kindergarten she'll be 5 year & 8 months old, almost 6 ! I would really love for her to attend in fall 2009 when she'll be 4 yr. & 8 months old, if her pre-school teacher thinks she'll be ready then. Is there any good private kindergarten in Alameda (or somewhere close, say in part of Oakland that's close to Alameda area) that'll take cases like hers - kids who is just a few days shy of making the cut-off date ? Please help. a worried mother

Starting BUSD with a fall birthday

I'm looking for feedback on families with kids who started kindergarten (at a BUSD school, esp) at 4 yrs old (that is, with a fall bday who turned 5 before Dec. bday cutoff). I'm not looking for general pros and cons or why we should hold back, but rather real-life experiences from those whose children have *actually* started at that age or who intend to start this fall at that age. We're on the fence about whether or not to send our child and would love to hear more from others--the good and the bad--in the same boat. anon, please

I also know kids who waited, and so far that's working for most of them, too - although one has clearly been in the wrong grade, and is skipping a grade this year. I was a December kid, the oldest, and I can tell you that my experience was negative with that - I wasn't as challenged as I wish I had been academically, and by high school I was itching to get out in the world earlier than my friends were, and getting in trouble as a result. I also have friends who were a year younger than me in my grade growing up, and they had their own struggles and issues - we all did fine in the end, all went to good colleges and have made good lives for ourselves. I don't think there's a 'right' answer, although there are certainly plenty of people who will act as if there is. When your child is on the cusp, you will have pluses and minuses to either choice. FWIW, the National Association for the Education of Young Children has studies that have led them to say: send your turning-5-kid to K. You can google for their site and see what they have to say.

Follow your gut, talk to your son's preschool, and check out the culture of the school he'd be attending. And then make your decision and relax! Thriving November girl's mom

The short answer is that they are both doing great. They have always been advanced academically and are social and outgoing. What we discovered is that many people, especially professionals (k-teacher, pediatrician) will tell you to put your girl forward, keep your boy back. I can't speak for their middle school years, obviously, but right now with our girl there is no difference between her and her peers. With the boy, he occasionally wets his pants but I have seen this in kids of all ages in kindergarten, so I believe that this is normal. Otherwise, he is reading already, can add and subtract, and has lots of friends. Even plays soccer with the older boys at recess.

Bottom line is, follow your own instincts and know your child. Been there

Albany parents: when to start kindergarten?

We're considering a move to Albany in time for my son to start kindergarten. He will turn 5 in mid-September 2008. For parents with current kindergarteners, what has been your experience with boys with Fall birthdays? If he starts in 2008, will he definitely be one of the youngest? If we wait a year, will he be way older than all his classmates? In general, when people are considering waiting a year for kindergarten, are they thinking about birthdays that fall later in the year than September? Any feedback would be most welcome. Holly

Shy daughter's birthday in November

My daughter (4 y. 2mo.) seems to be ''ready'' for Kindergarten, excellent attention span, obedient to teachers...etc... (note: she is quite small and shy (mude)with ''new'' people (both adults & kids) until she ''warms up'', she also gets tired (=tantrums) after ''long days''. I would prefer that she does not start Kindergarten this year for several reasons, some greatly discussed, and other more personal like the fact that she would be ''closer'' in school years to her almost 2 y.o. brother and also -hopefully- closer in their relationship as siblings by staying longer at home since she now goes to a 3-hour preschool program). I will be staying at home anyway and think will enjoy her a bit more before we ''all'' start the ''school years'' (with its pros and its stresses). But of course I want what it is best for her and we are not sure what to decide! She likes playing with older children (girls) but most preschoolers say so, right?. Some people say she will be bored with younger/more immature children if she waits. Will it be too easy/boring?? We will try the Spanish immersion program at Cragmon (with good chances they say, since she speaks Spanish, very little English). Any advice from families/educators with similar experiences? Thanks!

In talking to others when we made the choice, the sentiment seemed to be unanimous that it was better to hold back than push forward. The only negative I have heard is that when these children reach middle school/high school, they can be self-conscious about maturing physically ahead of other kids. and there can be a down side to your child turning 18 before they graduate high school (if they decide to quit or do anything else you don't approve of, you have lost your legal parental rights to control what they do). Hope this helps. Mhel

Even if she makes it through kindergarten, problems often emerge in first and second grade when the emotional maturity levels will be more pronounced and the academic challenges are greater. My son is now in second grade and in first grade and again this year in second grade children had to repeat - it is far more tramatic for the child when they have to go back and repeat first grade after already moving on to second. If it were me I would not give this a second thought -keep her at home for another year never looked back

Should 6-year-old skip kindergarten?

Hi Everyone - My big six year old boy just started kindergarten in the BUSD and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about moving him up to first grade? He can write his name, knows how to add, subtract, understands fractions, is starting to sound out words, can focus and follow directions. Last year he seemed too young and tender for kindergarten, but now he seems a little out of place. All constructive advice is appreciated! cybermom

At 6 years old, your son is the same age that most kids start the first grade, so he's right on track. If it were me, I would start him in first grade. Sounds like he's ready. Mom of 3 boys

Son with October birthday

Our son will be 5 next October and we are trying to decide when to start him in kindergarden. He is average in size (and we expect he'll be on the short side), does well socially, is able to sit still, follow directions, etc. He has a great vocabulary, but isn't necessarily advanced in terms of learning letters or showing an interest in reading or writing. It seems like everyone I talk to who has a strong opinion thinks we should wait to start him, making him one of the oldest in his class. Does anyone have experiences to share about starting kids (boys, especially) before their 5th birthdays? I was the youngest in my class as a kid and that always made me feel smart. I would hate for him to get the opposite message if we held him back. Thanks!

None of these boys is very big. Small to average, I'd say. None of them has needed any protection, because teasing and bullying are not part of the school's culture. That too should be the same at any decent school.

My son's class also has a couple of boys who were 6, or almost 6, when they started K. They're doing fine as well. All the kids in the class play well together despite a one-year age gap between some of them.

All the boys are bright and active but none of them is noticeably ''advanced.'' By the way, I don't think kids make connections like ''I'm younger so I'm smarter,'' unless they hear such things from others. A sensible school will make sure that kids realize that people develop in different ways and that a few months difference in age is no indicator of a difference in intelligence. If possible, take your son to a few schools and talk to the teachers there. That will help you decide what's right for him, not just what's right for a ''Generic Fall Birthday Boy.'' mother of boy with Sept b'day

Daughter with November birthday

At the risk of bringing this up yet again, my little girl will be turning 4 at the end of November and we are wondering if we should send her to kindergarten next year (we live in Berkeley). She is tall, verbal, and quite socialized, and people always think she is older than she is. Her preschool teacher believes she will be ready.

However, we have a son who has a December birthday and will not make the cutoff, and we wonder if there will be a potential problem having them 3 years apart rather than 2 (besides the fact that we will probably get less financial aid when they go to college - but that's still a long way off). Also, lately she has started saying ''I don't want to go to kindergarten'' for no apparent reason except that she hears us talking about it. She has said she's afraid it will be ''too hard'' and she has already shown perfectionist-first child tendencies.

I checked the website and there is a long discussion about boys, but not girls. Any new stories/experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. concerned mom

We deferred to my daughter's pre-school teachers who felt, strongly, that it was wrong for my daughter to ''stay back.'' Time has proven that they were right. And, if I plumb the deep recesses of my brain, I can remember a few moments around 3rd, 4th grade were my daughter stubbornly (immaturely?) insisted on parity and justice in every thing that was metted out. She is sort of the parity and even justice queen, so that might have been a function of her budding Supreme Court Justice personality not a function of her age.

Good luck to you Age not a problem in my doll

Son with August birthday

My son has a 8/31 birthdate. Right now he is the youngest member in his preschool class, which he is doing fairly well in. Developmentally, he plays/interacts/works well with the older 4- 5 yr olds in his class. But kindergarten could be a whole different thing. What is the best age to start a boy in kindergarten? Should I start him at the Sept just after he turns 5 yrs old or wait a year? I would love to here people's thoughts/experiences on this.

We asked for input from his teachers at his school, grandparents, other parents of boys... and the consensus we got for our kid was ''hold him back.'' Every child is unique so you need to really consider what is best for him.

The things that really influenced us to delay K another year:

1) his activity level and interests. He loves to play running games, be very active, and just wants to PLAY. He is only now starting to get into rule-based games and only now has the patience to sit/pay attention for 20 minutes or more at a time.

2) he has very poor motor skills. He has only just learned how to write his name but it is not legible (I only know what it is because I see him writing it). He can read very well, but he just does not have the fine motor skills to write or do small tasks.

3) he has poor impulse control. He still lashes out when he gets mad, instead of using vocabulary.

There is more, but these are the three things that influenced us to keep him in preschool another year. Hope this helps! Laurel

the authors have worked with boys for over 25 years and talk about some of the things they have learned in working with them. but i recommend the book for helping you decide when to put your boy in school because it talks about how boys develop differently than girls.

of course you are their parent and will be the best judge but you may find this will ease your decision if you decide he can wait. good luck anon

Here's what my son has to offer: ''the only time I wished I was a year older instead of younger was for sports. I got bigger slower than most other kids so I would have been better at water polo had I been older. Otherwise I did just fine. It would have been nice to be 18 in my senior year in high school and be a bit bigger for sports but thats it.''

I know what a tough decision it is! I was very grateful that my second child, a girl, was born in February. Sally

In my own classroom I have seen 4-yr-olds, born in November, do exceptionally well, bettering many other children 6 months older than they. A lot of these children have very little, if any, parental support. I think that sometimes you just have to put the child in the environment and see how he/she does. I would be interested to discuss this with you at length if you would like to talk more about it. Good luck with whatever you decide. Elaine

The article differentiates between an outdated view of child development where children are viewed as maturing according to their own time line and a more current view where stimulation, guidance, and instruction are believed to be required for development and learning. Advocates of delaying kindergarten entry generally hold the former view, whereas those who see the benefits of appropriate kindergarten instruction and intervention encourage children to enter kindergarten when they are eligible.

After reviewing the best research available, the article concludes that in general, there are no academic or social advantages to delaying kindergarten entry. Any early differences found generally disappear by Grade 3, and most of the differences found are usually attributable to young age plus low ability or bias in ratings. In fact, there may be disadvantages to delaying kindergarten entry, such as lower self-concept and, by high school, increased drop-outs and behavior problems.

Among the factors to consider in making a decision are the nature of the kindergarten program and intervention services available for children who may need special help as well as what you would like your child to be like in 10-15 years. Susanna

Fall birthdays from parents of teens perspective

I'm hoping some parents of teens will share their perspective on a decision made a number of years ago: If you have a child with a fall birthday -- October, November, even December -- in retrospect, how did your decision on when to begin school work out for your child -- whether it was to start your child in kindergarten before s/he turned five or to wait a year or even to repeat Kindergarten? My daughter, who turned five in late November, has been in a private kindergarten in a class of eight kids since September and is doing very well. Her teacher says she's ready to transfer to first grade (which will be in a public school) next fall. My concern focuses not on the next year or two but rather the middle and high school years, when peer pressure is strong, hormones are raging, and having as much maturity as possible to make good choices is so important. Obviously, every child is different, but in general, how do you (and your child) feel about the choice you made? And if you did choose to have your child repeat Kindergarten, how did you frame the decision in a positive way for your child? Lorraine

I'm not sure it was the right choice for either one, but if I had to pick the possibly bigger mistake, it was starting the 13-year-old "early." AT 16, my son looks like a grown man, and he feels ready to run his own life. On the other hand, we held him back because of social issues, and he continues to be pretty immature in how he handles responsibilities-- although he is getting better. We would have blamed all his elementary school problems on starting him early had we done so, but he still had social issues when he started a year later. As he has gotten older, his size has actually helped him resist social pressure. No one messes with him, and he seems comfortable in setting his own goals, not following anyone elses (including ours, of course).

My daughter has never fit in socially. Would it have been better if she had started a year later? I don't know--she's just a very private person who doesn't like to share herself with very many people. Academically, in the early years of elementary school, it was clear that she felt she was being pushed too fast. She actually did very well in kindergarten, and seemed well prepared for first grade, but she fell apart when she got there. Everything from "Wednesday folders" to "milk tickets" was a tremendous challenge. We finally took her out of the public school for 2 years and put her in Mills primary school, where the 2/3/4 classroom was set up like a kindergarten, and she felt able to move at her own pace. She returned to public school in 5th grade and has been strugling ever since. On the other hand, she also seems completely able to resist social pressures. There were girls in 5th grade at her school who were "dating" and calling boys on the phone, but my daughter (in 8th grade) still has no interest in these things, and avoids school dances as boring although she's happy to take social dance classes. I think this is a very individual thing, and depends very much on the child's personality.

I don't know if this helps. My one suggestion is to think about your daughter's attitude towards school. You might also check the tendency of the public school. In my youngest child's year (he's a May birthday, what a relief), there are a lot of fall birthday girls. Some of them are strugling a bit with the demands of the school (not so much what they have to learn, but homework and classroom demands for seat work), but socially they seem to do fine, because there are several of them.

I would also advise you to keep your options open every year. I know of several parents of late birthday children whose children did well in the early grades but benefited from repeating 3rd, 4th or 5th grade. The driver in these decisions was social fit not academic success.

In your case, your daughter is doing well in kindergarten, and so I think there is no reason to have her repeat kindergarten. She will be well within the range of the other kids, age-wise and otherwise. I say go for first grade next year.

Sports programs form age groupings by birthday, not by grade level, and the birthday cutoffs do not correspond to grade level cutoffs. The rub comes when most of her classmates, born, say, before Sept. 1, are in the classification above the one she is in. So she is not with her classmates in rec. sports. This has happened in both soccer and softball. There is no getting around it. Obviously, there is a slight advantage to being one of the bigger players in your group, but kids don't really see it that way if it interferes with their social structure.

I think these kinds of issues may crop up again, i.e., when driver's licenses are being obtained by "everyone but me". But basically, because she has friends in grade levels above and below hers, and because she does well academically and socially, Nov. 3 is still a lucky birthday for us.

I always worried that grade school was too easy for him academically, but I tried to supplement school with outside activities. (I've written here before that this might have been a mistake since he still had to spend 7 hours/day not being challenged and was able to slide through.) Maturity-wise, it worked out well.

During middle school I felt that it was a distinct advantage--his friends were younger and therefore he was not being pushed to grow up. He could keep up with the girls who were maturing faster. He was happy with his age/grade at this point and looking forward to driving before his friends.

However, now he's a 17- year-old junior in high school with "senioritis". He's ready to move on with his life in a major way and resents "wasting" his time sitting in class. He never got used to working hard, but now sliding brings B's & C's instead of A's.

I don't know how much of his situation is related to his age/grade. . . . good luck with your decision. Barbara

My son's birthday is at the very end of November and I understand that because of that he must wait to enter public school kindergarten until he is nearly 6 years old. Here is my question: If he were to attend a private school kindergarten the prior year; that is from nearly 5 until nearly 6 would he enter public school as a first grader or repeat kindergarten? Are there subjective or objective criteria? We live in Albany. Thanks.

On the issue of holding back a young boy from starting kindergarten:
I was agonizing myself over this question a few years ago and was
helped out by a long article on this very subject in "Parents Press."
This would have been a spring (April?) issue, 1994.  In the article
not only were several parents interviewed, but also several adults
who as children had been kept back due to "emotional immaturity."
All but one of the latter regretted having been held back for
various reasons.

In my own case my son's birthday is late October, and I opted to
let him start kindergarten at the tender age of 4.  My reasons were
1) he would have had to move from his preschool anyway as they couldn't
   take a child who was legally of age to be in kindergarten.
2) he seemed about average size for boys born his year, though he was
   born towards the end of the year.  He is also quite a strong child.
   I felt this was important especially for boys given the way they
   mix it up on the playground, try to top each other on the climbing
   structures and so forth.
3) he was "academically" ready; a very smart kid who has never had any
   problem with learning to read, do math, etc.


In general I am happy with my decision, although I can see that he is
not quite as far along as many of the other kids in his class in terms
of controlling his temper, acting in a composed and reasonable manner,
etc.  I'm beginning to think that this is just his personality.

It's a tough call and you just have to judge your own kid and how
ready you think he is.

As for private vs. public, I am strongly in favor of public schools;
the ones in Berkeley range from  good to excellent .  Sure
there are a few not-so-good teachers, but I feel life is full of
not-so-good co-workers and bosses, who we all have to deal with
occasionally, so best to learn to cope when one is young.

Good luck.

Re: holding him back I don't think it makes a great deal of difference either way - your child will either be one of the oldest in the class or one of the youngest. My son, now a teen, had a November birthday and we decided to wait the extra year. If I had it to do over, I would probably not do this now, especially since he has always attended public school. I would definitely do Berkeley public schools again, and have been very happy with them. But probably not the holding back part unless I thought my child was way below the level of other kids his age. There is such a range of skills in public school that the slight disadvantage in age & maturity, relative to other skills, is not that big a deal. And you may find that a child who is older than his classmates is understimulated academically.

On the other hand, a lot of parents, especially fathers, have told me that physical size is an issue for boys as they get older. So maybe if you have a kid who is on the small size already, this would be a reason for waiting the extra year.

I think your decision should be based on the child. My birthday is late in August, and my parents chose to allow me to wait until I was 6 to start kindergarten. Apparently, this was at least partially due to the fact that I was afraid of the road I needed to walk down (about a quarter mile dirt road) to get to the school bus when I was 5. As far as growing up on the older edge of the class, I appreciated it until I was in high school, at which point I would have preferred to be done a year early! Being older (and hence more mature) gives you an advantage over the other kids, although this is probably most relevant in the early years. As far as being challenged by school work, starting your child a year earlier won't solve that- if s/he's smart, the next grade up won't be sufficient to keep busy- I think you need to supplement with other activities, whether at home or during school hours. One program I came across that was very useful was a tutoring program where I (as a 5th grader) was allowed to go help struggling 3rd graders in English and Math after my own work was done. Don't know if anything like that exists here.

When to start school-- I held my son back in the first grade because he was not able to read even simple words like "the" and "and". In retrospect I wished that I would have kept him in Montessori pre-school one year longer and thus delayed kindergarten. He had a huge catch up time somewhere along the way, junior high, I think, graduated with a 4.0 and is now attending UC Berkeley! If he can read, send him on. There are lots of immature kids in even later grades.

Re: starting kindergarten. My information is that the cut-off date in California is Dec. 1. So if your son's birthday is late November, he should be able to start K while still four years old. I have also been told that if a child attends a private K, they can then go on to 1st grade in public schools even if their birthday is after the cut off.

Regarding putting your son in a private school in order to get around the age requirements in the public schools. I strongly suggest that you wait. Even a very mature child would benefit from starting school later rather than earlier.

My daughter's birthday is in early January so she went into kindergarten at about age 5 1/2. My son's birthday is at the end of October so he started school at about age 4 1/2. Although my children are nearly 2 years apart chronologically, they are only one year apart in school. My daughter is now a Sophomore in high school, my son is a Freshman.

I really regret letting my son start school young. It has been so difficult for him academically and he is still smaller than most of his classmates. If I had the decision to make all over again, I would wait until he was nearly 6 to let him start kindergarten.

My daughter however is a little older than many of her friends who are in the same grade. She is so thrilled that she'll be able to get her driver's license sooner than many of her friends so, clearly, being older does not bother her at all. Her academic performance is much better than her brother's making his difficulties that much more salient.

You might want to talk to your pediatrician about this idea. Mine told me (after my son had already started school and was struggling), that he thought all boys should wait until they are 6 years of age and more mature before they begin school. He informed me that boys frequently develop more slowly than girls during the early stages, (both physically and emotionally). He also said that it isn't a good thing to try to teach kids to read when their visual abilities aren't developed enough to facilitate it.

I'm sorry if I sound too insistent about this but I hate the idea of any child having to go through the difficulties that my son has experienced if it can be prevented. Once you've put a child in school, retaining them can be equally traumatic (something we've been struggling with for 10 years now). I'll say it again, make this decision carefully.

Our daughter's birthday is also at the end of November (she just turned 5), and is now attending kindergarten in Albany. The cutoff date is December 2 in California; so your son could start kindergarten before he turns 5 if you want him to. And if you sent him to private school for kindergarten, he would be able to enter 1st grade at 5 3/4.

I believe it has been discussed here whether kids with October or November birthdays should be held back (and in fact one of Alia's classmates turned 6 before she turned 5), but we are very happy with our decision to start her in kindergarten this year.

My son, born 10-26-91, is in Kindergarten now. We waited a year, until he was almost 6, and are so glad we did. He was definately more ready in every way this year. Our daughter, born 9-4-93, will be almost 5 at the start of next school year. We are torn - should we wait a year with her too? Even though she is, by virtue of having an older brother, so much more interested than he was at this age? Any related experiences would be appreciated.

I agree whole heartedly with Susan. I put my son into school early because the preschool teachers said he was well-adjusted and smart. He continues to be well-adjusted and smart, but the one year of maturity that he lacks has kept him from attaining his full potential. Being able to sit, concentrate, and focus all comes with maturity. Boys tend to mature slower than girls anyway. It does make a difference and over the years I have regretted our choice.

I've been seeing a lot of people suggesting a younger child be held back from kindergarten; I was planning to send my son when he was four, almost five (he has a Nov. birthday) but now I'm wondering if that's a good idea. My son has been going to a Montessori preschool since age 2 1/2, and has done well there. His verbal skills are good, he is social and cooperative, and he pays attention to the activities at hand. He is a little on the small side, but well-proportioned and good-looking (not at all scrawny, just a bit small).

Has anyone had a good experience with enrolling a younger child, especially a boy? I don't want him to be ahead of all his classmates and bored, nor do I want to rush him if waiting would be better. Please help! This is my oldest child, I've never done this before.

We did it both ways: our daughter went to kindergarten when she was 4 years 11 months old (her birthday is September 27), but our son had to wait until he was 6. I think we made the right decision both times. Our girl at almost 5 was plainly ready in terms of emotional maturity, attention span, interest, etc. Our boy at 5 was plainly not ready; even at 6 he had plenty of challenges--it was a successful year for him, but he had to work for it--which I guess is what you aim for.

I would definitely base my decision on the child herself, not her date of birth. The differences between children continue to surprise me; it's amazing how little you can predict from chronological age.

Hi Jennifer,

It sounds like our situations our similar. Our daughter also has a November birthday, and she attended a Montessori preschool for 2 years, starting at 2 1/2. She is also quite verbal, has a long attention span and is generally eager to learn. Alia is now in kindergarten, and has just turned 5. So far we're very happy with our decision to start her at this age. Despite her age, she is still more than holding her own academically. I would expect this to be true for your son as well, given his Montessori background. I think the concern expressed about starting kindergarten before the age of 5, especially for boys, relate to inability of some to sit still and focus on the task at hand. From your description of your son, this doesn't seem to be a problem, and it sounds as if he would do fine starting kindergarten when he's 4.

The only concern we had going in was whether Alia mature enough socially. We have been pleasantly suprised in that regard; she seems reasonably popular, and has developed a nice little circle of friends. But she is intensely aware that she is the youngest in her class (one boy turned 6 before she turned 5), and she was thrilled when she finally turned 5 and could say she was the same age as the other kids. Now she gets to watch the others turn 6, one by one--I don't know how she'll react to that!

Having said all this, I would have to agree with an earlier poster that the decision on when to start kindergarten should be based on the individual child. As I said, we feel good about our choice. Although I expect Alia's immaturity will occasionally cause problems for her, these problems would be outweighed by the likelihood that she would have been bored if we had held her back a year.

Both our daughters either turned or will turn 6 in kindergarten (one has a November and one a February birthday), and for both of them I think it was the right decision. Both are pretty smart (I'm their mother, but I think that's true) and were capable of sitting still and paying attention at age 4, but I was worried about the social stresses of elementary school more than the academic. In both their cases, I think we made the right decision. They are both very confident and self-assured. They don't have to struggle to keep up, either socially or academically. They pretty much take school on their own terms.

In our case, both my daughters attended a Montessori pre-school, so there was academically enough available to them that I knew they wouldn't be bored. Especially our November daughter watched a lot of her friends go off to kindergarten while she stayed behind, but she did have other friends, and make other friends, and she definitely enjoyed a year as one of the oldest kids there.

Also, they went on to a Montessori elementary school where again, I knew they wouldn't be bored in years to come.

I'm quite sure we made the right decision, and I know of other kids who went a year early who I think would be a lot more comfortable if they had waited a year, but to be fair I know other kids who went a year early who seem perfectly fine.

September seems a particularly difficult decision, because they really are very close to being the "right" age.

Good luck!

I would like to make a comment regarding when to start boys in kindergarten. I am a mother of three boys, the last one is in 1st grade now, and feel my experience mirrored everyone else's out there who had boys and responded. I agreed with what they had to say because they spoke from experience. I can say unequivocally, that boys should not start kindergarten as early as 4 years old, or sometimes even 5 years old. Depending on the child's nature, some boys need more time to develop their own sense of themselves and how to deal with others. Being verbal and having a long attention span is a small part of it. I believe you have to deal with the ramifications to the child when he gets to those most emotionally unstable years...the teen years. My oldest son started kindergarten at the 'right' age of 5, but due to my own ignorance about how to deal with teachers and such I agreed to let him skip a grade. He went straight to third grade from first grade. The rest of his school career he was always the youngest in the class. Academically he did excellently, but always felt 'out of it' because all the other boys started getting interested in girls before he did, started driving before he could, and basically felt a bit insecure about all of his abilities. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have skipped that grade. Boys need an added chance to feel good about themselves. Needless to say, I've made sure my other two boys are emotionally secure and able to handle dealing with life situations first before I worry about them academically (Luckily, they've been good students too). Just my two cents worth.

The long and short of it is that we placed our daughter in Step One's (terrific) bridge kindergarten program after her two years at parent coop nursery school, then she started kindergarten at Jefferson when she was turning six. I made this decision largely because I knew she would benefit from not being the youngest (she is the youngest at home, and doesn't like it much) and because she's so sensitive, stubborn, resistant to change, etc. She's also intellectually very bright, but this I think is so much less important in school starting age than social maturity, adaptability, etc. For us, waiting the extra year seems like the best decision we've ever made for her.

I talked to a lot of people about this, and while lots of my teacher friends said "why wait?" (knowing her brother, and us, and looking forward to her entrance into school), but a highly respected retiring principal friend and another retiring colleague both said they'd never met a child who waited who was sorry in the end.

I asked my 14-year-old (who had just turned 6 when he started Kindergarten) if he thought it had been a good idea to have him wait. His response:

1. Look how skinny I am--could you imagine me in 9th grade now?
2. Other kids look up to me because I'll be able to drive before they do. [We'll see about that--Mom]

My ideas: He's certainly able to handle the 13-year-old girls better than his 13-yr-old boy friends can! I also think that he'll have another year to develop judgement before facing issues as they come up for his grade. He was asked by his teacher when he was in a 2-3 combination years ago if he wanted to start the year in 2nd grade and go with the 3rd graders for the second semester and he declined then. I figured that if he was smart when he was 5, he'd still be smart at 6. He has always needed to find academic challenges, but that's certainly easier than struggling to keep up.

My son's birthday is September 27th. He attended the three and the four year old programs at the UC Child Study Center and went into the Oakland public schools for kindergarten just before his fifth birthday. It worked well for him; he hasn't had any problems socially or academically that appear to be age/maturity related. His best friend is a week younger (and physically smaller) and started kindergarten at the same time at a private school in Oakland; his parents opted to hold him back for a second year of kindergarten which seems to be working best for him...