4-year college without high school math?

Hello all. I am wondering if my HS junior can possibly get into a 4 year college (probably a state college due to finances) without taking all the maths required (geometry and algebra 2). She has a difficult time with math, even with tutoring. She has A's and B's in all her other classes. Does she have to go thru the community college route, I assume take the 2 maths there, and then transfer? Also, is DVC the best 2 year college around, as I've been hearing or are the other junior colleges just as good (and closer to home). Thanks. mom of junior high schooler

Applying to colleges - close to home or away?

The time has come to apply to colleges. From what I hear, the kids generally want to move out and go to an out of area college. The problem is that I'm not so sure I want my daughter to go far away. She has her sights set on CAL, but it seems there is a lot of pressure at school from friends and even teachers, that it's not cool to stay close to home. What do think?

I am a professor at Cal and my daughter decided to go there. Actually it was the best of the affordable schools that she got in to, though if she really wanted to go somewhere else she had a choice among several fine UCs (I have absolutely NO influence on admissions, let's get that out of the way! and I get no break of any kind). She got in to some private schools and that was grand but way way too expensive. We did not qualify, at any public or private school, for financial aid or interest-free loans. We were offered loans at what I consider a high interest rate and we did not take them. We are unfortunately in a sandwich between being wealthy enough to pay our way to a private school, and ''poor'' enough to qualify for financial aid. The living expenses in the Bay Area, 177% of average, did not seem to impress the various schools we applied to. This does not mean that YOU will not get aid, so try. Most colleges say they are ''needs blind,'' or ''practically needs blind.''

The community college option with a two-year transfer is a good one--really saves money and there are some really good teachers in small classes in the community colleges.

To get back to your question, not only is my daughter close to home, but she is at my place of work, admittedly with 30,000+ other people. So far, this works for us. She lives in the dorms and I stay out of her business. She comes home when she wants to, and I love to see her. We love to see each other once in a while for lunch or snack on campus. I could not be happier, but I have to watch myself. I have to NOT GET INTO HER STUFF. That is hard, as I want her to do well in school and she has had some periods of doubt and unhappiness. She has questioned her choice because it is such a ''BIG' place, but at the same time has wonderful opportunities to do things. She is also outrageously happy with what she is doing at times, and is very involved in extracurricular activities and has lots of friends. So I think she is at the normal for her general personality. She's a homebody and a bit moody.

Do what seems right for you and your child, and accept that once they are off to school, they are adults and should be given privacy with responsibility. I do ask my daughter to prepare a budget for me every semester and I would do that wherever she went.

My second daughter, applying for college right now, is adamant that she wants to go AWAY for college. It is pretty clear in this case what her preferences are and I think we accept that. But I think 100 miles is AWAY, and the east coast means a lot of flight delays. We will see where she gets in and at what price. I really wanted to get AWAY and found that 100 miles was perfect for me. I guess what I am trying to say is that the away vs. close problem pales compared to where the kid gets in and at what price.

I think we need to transmit some crucial info to our kids as soon as possible, and this gets lost in our worries about college this or college that:

1. live within your means (bankrupting yourself for some big name school is not setting a good example).
2. don't borrow money. Start a car fund now. No weird mortgages.
3. save money and live on a budget. Understand compound interest. (and you can start with 10.00 saved by getting a book used, etc.)
4. you are not entitled to anything, you have to earn it.
5. learn about investing your savings.

As to the application process, it is well known that it is the major your kid picks is more important than the college. I know that the kid who is going to Cal Poly in engineering is going to do very well financially compared to the kid who goes to Stanford in drama (and don't get angry with me if drama is your kid's thing--that is just the way it is and who knows they could get lucky but it will be harder with a lot of debt....). What if they went to Cal in engineering and the competition was so fierce they changed majors, while at Cal Poly they are supported and in a more reasonable peer environment? At Cal, to do engineering you have to be in a different college so your choices for alternative majors require a transfer--and if you are in another major and want to transfer into engineering it is very difficult. Perhaps a school that made it easier to choose would be more reasonable. Keep these things in mind. I don't think it is reasonable for a high school senior to know exactly what they want to do. So find a school that has a lot of choices, unless your kid is very focused (and I know one of those this year who has already changed her mind, after 4 weeks of freshman year).

My greatest fear for my daughter is that at Cal, the sciences are so packed with highly competitive students that she may give up, while at a smaller school she might stick with it.

Now for the application process: what has happened???? It is such a drag. We did not take this nearly so seriously when I applied to college. You need to try to get good scores, good grades, and for some schools, good recommendations. AP classes, if your kid can do well in them, are good. Some evidence of public service (though not so much and so diverse that it looks contrived) is good. Faking things does not help your kid, who will wind up somewhere he or she does not belong. You need to help them find a school that is going to be right for them. So get some of those books on colleges, or go to spark college on the web, or do several of those things and have the kid look through them and see what is of interest. You will be able to get some idea of the likelihood of your kid getting in from the GPA and scores of students accepted. Look at some college websites. Try not to let all the ''noise'' about xy and z's perfect SAT scores get to you. Just focus on finding a place your kid likes, and put ''away or close'' way down the priority list, unless is it really a big deal for your daughter. Be frank with your kids about what you can afford, but don't let them stop them from applying to places, because you may get an offer that makes it affordable.

It is helpful if you have them take an SAT prep course, I think. My daughter took a week long prep course offered through her school. They need to get used to the test format.

I have used a consultant for 2 meetings per kid, just to reduce some of the tension that gets built up when parents try to do all the advising. The consultant made my daughter aware of where she was likely to get in and where she would not get in, and recommended some schools to her. Your kid should write her OWN essays, and proof read them a lot. You can help with proof reading, but lay off.

There is my 2 cents. local mom

In a big panic about the college application process

Now that the time has come, sure enough I'm in a big panic! I went to a meeting last year at my daughters school and came away with the knowledge that the whole college applicaiton process is very stressful. Of course I've been worrying for a year, but haven't really done too much about it. I'd like to know if there is help out there, what do other parents do? I'm a single mom and was not educated in this country, so I feel like I'm at a disadvantage. Are there inexpensive (or free) ways to find out exactly what you're supposed to do?

We did a very detailed analysis of costs and benefits of private colleges vs University of California, I think a lot of other people are too, considering the numbers entering UC this fall. College Teen Parent

My daughter wants to major Engineering and applying UC schools, CalPoly, and some Ivy schools. Although I didn’t major Engineering, I took several Math and Engineering courses at Cal, so I do not recommend my daughter to go to Cal. When I was a student there, major classes were too crowded. Beginning of each semester, there were hundreds of students sitting down on the floor for first couple months until half of the classmates dropped. These classrooms were made for three hundreds students or so. I also had to wait for a long line, when I wanted ask professors questions and sometimes late for next class. It might be similar for any other classes which are requirement. Classes must be more packed now and next few years.

About private counselors and tutors:
Although my daughter told me several students at her school use private counselors or tutors, not many people can afford them. I can’t. But I don’t think my daughter is behind or doing less than those students. We use any help from our family and friends. I tutored her mathematics through Calculus, and her uncle who is a lawyer helped her history classes. Her father’s friend who is a magazine editor checked her English essays (but he didn’t change a lot). My daughter decided her father (high school English teacher) is not good enough, and her other uncle (high school history teacher) is not willing to help her.

AP classes:
My daughter observed and analyzed (she likes to analyze everything) students/friends who graduated last 2 years, and she is using them as indicators. Some of the indicators are; Science/Engineering students who finished Calculus AB & BC (and or other AP classes) during their junior years tend to go to Cal, while many students who took it during senior years went to CalPoly or State Universities. Among them, who took score 5 on AP Calculus exams were accepted by schools where they wanted to go, such as Stanford and Harvard. Also many of them went to Cal Engineering/Science. I don’t know how schools consider AP classes and scores, but students can demonstrate how they are challenging. If you take AP exams by junior years, you can put scores on the application. It might be similar for other majors, although I don’t know which AP classes are important for them. These indicators helped her decide where she apply, and not to apply.

Public schools or private schools:
Since I can not afford for a private school, we made a deal. My daughter can go to a private school only if she gets full scholarships. If she gets it, I will not complain how far the school is. It will be difficult for me, but I have to have respect for her choice and effort. There were several students from her school who went to Ivy schools with full scholarships last years. Their financial backgrounds vary. At least one of the students has professional parents. However, their performances are alike. They took many AP classes, there were in varsity sports, leaderships or community services. But not all of them were perfect.

I will see what will happen to my daughter, who tries hard but not perfect. If she gets in where she wants, I will help friends’ kids as a free tutor. Teen's mom

Need help getting started with college application

My son is a Senior this year in Albany. He is an African American student seeking to attend a historical Black college. His SAT scores are sort of low but has a strong cummlitive GPA. This is my first child to go to college and I need to make sure we are on the right path with our applications. S

and here www.act.org/

If you child plans to go to a four year college. The Collegeboard site is very helpful, and it is where you register for the SAT test. The Act.org site is for The ACT. Your child needs to take one of these if not both, usually the SAT for most colleges. I would also get out the tea pot, or ice water jug and start sitting down with your senior every week, either after school or after weekend breakfast and have some talks about what they want to do or don't want to do. Four year college is not for everyone, but most work these days is requiring a Bachelors degree. This degree can be helpful even if someone pursues a career in Art or as a Chef, since this will be good preparation for project or business management. If your child wants a training program, you need to look into that, and there may be financial aid depending on the program.

Get your financial records in order and file for Financial aid as soon as they will take it, don't wait for the deadline. Financial packages are often awarded first come first served. As a single mother without a lot of money your child may qualify for a maximum financial award, though this may also involve a rather large loan. Read the paypack terms, since it is best to have no interest while in school or deferred low interest, there is interest while in school, but you pay later and payment after leaving school.

The worst loans are high interest, with fees of all kinds, and require payments immediately, do not take out these loans!

If you do not understand the loan terms, make an appointment with your banker - if you have a checking or a savings account, your bank may help you understand these options, or again speak with the college counselor.

Beware programs for quick easy college loans on the internet. The best ones are usually administered thru the college and are Federally guaranteed. Check and see if the college you are most interested has one bank or a choice of banks. There have been a few situations lately where private colleges were sending all of the loan business to only one bank with terms that were not competitive with other banks. Borrower needs to understand the terms.

California has an amazing system of public colleges: University of California Campuses, California State University campuses, and many, many exceptional community colleges and programs. The University of Texas, the University of Oregon and the University of Vermont and the SUNY system of New York are very worth while to look at for lower costs and excellent opportunities among others. Some of the other state university systems are a little easier to get into than the University of California.

Make an appointment with you child's college counselor as soon as possible. Ask for help from the principal, and her favorite teachers as well. Ask the librarian to help you with resources. There are many books at the library, and you can read through many of the current editions at Barnes and Noble, since they allow browsing.

Make a wall chart and get bizzy. If you cannot afford the application fees or college exam entrance fees you can get waivers, however it is getting pretty late. Your child needs to be scheduled or have taken the exams already. Did it last year, you can too

Advice for high school junior about applying to colleges

My oldest daughter, now 16 and in 11grade, is a hardworking, strong (though not stellar) student. GPA hovering at 3.8. She is not as strong in math and sciences; still searching for her calling in life. She's definitely college bound, however, not one to stray too far from California. We didn't have enough to put away big bucks for the private school of her choice. We're middle class and unlikely to qualify for scholarships or grants. We'd like to hear from parents who have been there and any advice to high school students preparing for college and anything you would have done differently with your own kids to prepare them for the future. Thank you for sharing your insights! Signed, Newbie Parents

First, visit a few local campuses during your 11th grade that represent the different kinds of schools, e.g., small private (U. of Pacific, Mills, St. Mary's,...), big public (Cal, SF State, Chico), urban (Cal, SF State, SJ State), midsize to small town (Davis, Chico, Humboldt). Town and school on same page (Humboldt, Davis). Town and school on separate pages (Mills, Evergreen St.). Residential v. commuter (e.g., most of the above v. Sac. State or SJ State). Do a couple, and she will pretty quickly have a read on size and location, private v. public. Preppy v. broad spectrum.

Really, just a couple visits will do.

Second, make sure she sits in on classes by herself to get a read on the school. Have a meal in the cafeteria. Possibly spend a night in the dorm. The more personal contact, the better. She can look through a couple department offerings and email the teachers to see if it is ok to sit in. Most cases will welcome you.

Third, go when your high school is out of session and the college is in session. E.g., Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, Thanksgiving week, President's Day Weekend, etc.

Do not put too much weight in the organized visits arranged by the colleges. They give you tours of buildings, led by a couple of peppy kids. You miss the real nitty gritty of seeing the teachers and kids in action. Your daughter will get ton's out of this, which cannot be conveyed at the college's organized events.

Also, if you can help it, avoid driving through a campus on a weekend ''just to see the place'' is a very distorted view - one that is just a bunch of buildings.

Note also that if you take one college walking tour, you have probably taken all of them. You can start one, but in 5 minutes you will see the same picture from the previous one.

Fourth, if you can afford the $500 to 800, get the services of a college applications consultant. That can help a lot, mainly by taking you out of the picture. That financial investment is small compared to a year's wasted tuition at the wrong school.

Fifth, get validation that your daughter is ready for college and wants to go. Very important. Consider options. If you can afford $600, I recommend the Johnson O'Connor Research Institute in San Francisco. They do a two day evaluation of interests and capabilities using written and manual tests and interviews. The stuff they get will blow your mind, stuff you'll never get from an academic setting. This experience really opened up the options and vision for our daughter.

Sixth, consider alternative college formats, e.g., at Evergreen State (in Olympia, Washington) and Colorado College (in Colorado Springs, CO). Evergreen may be 50 to 100 years ahead of all the rest of the colleges in the country.

There are probably other idea's you will get from others on the board. I wish you the very best of luck. Nathan

My youngest is in 10th grade now, and her dream school is $30000 a year. We have saved some money, but nothing like that. We have already told our kids that we expect them to pick up some of the tab by taking out student loans and working part time. Good luck. The next couple of years are full of transitions and changes. Our kids think they're grown up, but sometimes they just need to come home and be tucked in and have a bedtime talk. jenny

How much should I help ADD teen with college apps?

My son is a senior at Berkeley High Independent Study. He has a dx of ADD, though is not on meds for it. He is attempting to complete some online high school courses to make up for some earlier bad grades. He says he wants to go to college but won't see the college counselor,won't finish his online courses, won't even pick a college to send ACT scores to, etc. Time management is an issue with his ADD. I want to help him get to college but feel that I'm having to push too much. If I don't push I don't think he'll get to a 4yr college next year, but if I do push will he even be ready for a 4yr college? Hope someone has some experience with this. Thanks.
uncertain

I know theres a certain prestige when your child gets into Berkeley or NYU, but you have to remember when they turn 18, they are adults and have to make their own decisions. We can decide if we will support them financially, but they have to have their own goals.

I know several adults with ADD or ADHD, and they tend to be the ''go-getters''. Some, like my brother, went off medication in his mid-teens, and it took a few years after high school for him to get started, but he's doing quite well now. Good luck to you and your son Jenny

That said, you're right that you can only help as much as you expect to be able to help once he's in college -- unless he will be attending a school that will offer the help he needs. If that's an option (Landmark College actually specializes in ADD and LD kids, many schools offer support services) than do what it takes to keep him on track, knowing that increased maturity will also help him next year.
ADD Mom to ADD kids

Where to start in college application process

Can anyone tell me what the standard procedures are for a high-schooler headed for college? Evidently all my sons friends took the PSAT this month, but my son did not. I wasn't aware that sophomores - which he is - took PSAT's. He's a great student and I see college as a definite. His high school is just so middle of the road - College Park High in Pleasant Hill. It isn't one of the top schools in the area, nor is it one of the worst, where a college might actively do some outreach.

I went to college in Florida where kids were guaranteed placement in college and my husband is foreign so neither of us had to deal with tests, competition, or applying to various colleges. So, during the high school years, just what should a kid be doing to get into college? (Evidently taking the PSAT is one of them.) I remember taking the ACT test to get into college, yet I never hear about it around here. When should a student take a PSAT, the SAT, ACT? How soon do you start applying to college? How, when and where does one go to apply for scholarships, grants, financial aid? Some kind of time line and what steps should be taken would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.