UCB Parents Advice about Preschool-aged Kids

Stubborn 4-year-olds

Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network
Back to: Advice about Preschool-aged Kids
see also: Stubborn 3-year-olds and Stubbornness in school-aged kids
Nov 1999

I need help with my four year old daughter. She is Stubborn! She balks like a mule at every request or suggestion that doesn't involve candy or "Dragon Tales." I feel frustrated, out of control, and at a complete loss. This morning she refused to get out of bed. After thirty minutes of reminders, promises, threats, I just left without her (I was 40 minutes late for work) and had her dad deal with it (even though day care is ten miles out of his way).

I have in the past resorted to physical force on such occasions - picking her up and dressing her kicking and screaming, leaving us both exhausted and miserable for the rest of the morning. I'd naturally prefer a less stressful approach. I have used bribery, the promise of positive reinforcement (a good hug, Trix for breakfast, Barney on TV), and other less effective forms of manipulation. I feel like she's in complete control of me. What works? Will she grow quickly out of what I pray is another unpleasant stage? (she's a very bright, clever, and often sweet child, really!). Or was this morning just a Halloween hangover?


I suggest reading the book Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It has helped me in many ways. It gives you different ways of thinking about your child and keys to help in everyday life.
You don't mention time-outs. We don't use these very often, but when we do they really work. The idea is to present them as time to calm down, not as punishment. Also to use a timer, one minute per year old, and sit somewhere where there is nothing else to do (we do it at the top of the stairs). It's hard to get our child to stay, but we persist in taking her back, and she has so far yelled and stamped her frustration out within the three minutes, and made it possible for us to then hug her and talk calmly with her, and move on.
Four year olds are notorious for drawing lines in the sand; four is "two with attitude." They swing wildly between remarkably reasonable behavior and irrational and arbitrary demands. My older son tested to and beyond the limit with great frequency, and sometimes just needed to make a demand that couldn't be met so he could blow. (My personal favorite: "I want our house to be on the OTHER side of the street!") I think he was struggling with his desire to control his world, the enormity of what that meant, and his need for us to set limits. Things we found helpful: give as much notice of plans as possible, and as many choices as possible without making your own life crazy. So, for example, if your daughter is having trouble with transitions (like getting out of bed) you might try starting on the problem the night before: telling her what time she will be getting up, having her help set her alarm on a digital clock in her room (a good thing for kids this age so your timing decisions do not seem so arbitrary), writing a list (with her input, coloring, stickers or whatever) of what things she will have for breakfast, and picking out her clothes. Put her list on the fridge and her clothes in the place she chooses. We also find that getting an affirmative agreement -- the child's handshake or verbal repetition of the program -- helps. The next morning, she may just get up and surprise you. If not, you might try telling her the race to the kitchen starts in two-minutes, and setting an egg-timer so she can see the time pass; then say (getting her to say it with you if you can) "on your mark, get set, go" and run to the kitchen. My boys never could resist a race. An alternative is a hide and seek game: "Mommy is going to hide in the kitchen. Come find me...." Above all, keep a sense of humor. These four-year-olds really are funny little creatures, and unless we are pressed for time or their behavior is unsafe or unkind, laughter sometimes can be the best detonator. "What, you're not getting out of bed? The cereal is getting lonely on the table all alone." The sillier you can be the better; four year olds just love being silly. But in the end, you will have to be the grown up, set limits, and not cater to every unreasonable whim, or you all will be miserable until this stage passes. And it will pass. My older son, now eight, is a great responsible kid, who would think it absurd to demand that the house be moved. Good luck!
I think it's a mistake to label this issue "Halloween Hangover" -- I think stubbornness is just the fact of life with a four-year-old. I was talking with another mom recently and we were remarking on how popular culture talks a lot about the Terrible Twos but has not a word about how awful the Fours can be. (My own mother used to say that the Fours are parental training for the Teens, not just because of the stubbornness but also the surliness, snottiness, and sarcasm.) I'm sure someone will comment to the list about the dynamic of exploration vs. need for security; I can't remember the whole psychological explanation, just that it's been hell for us.

We use incentives *a lot* and also disincentives, e.g. no "Dragon Tales" if such-&-such is not done -- but you can't use (5:30 p.m.) Dragon Tales for a morning motivator, it has to be closer in time. I do allow a 1/2-hr video in the morning if my kid is dressed 45 min before time to leave; this means breakfast is eaten in front of the video with 10-15 min following for teeth-brushing, putting on shoes & jacket, etc.

My basic advice, which I only sometimes manage to follow, is to keep yourself in control by using bodily force if necessary but keeping your cool to the greatest extent possible. So, for example, on some especially balky mornings I've had to dress my child entirely by myself -- with him fighting me -- but if I can managge to do it without actually getting mad, at least it doesn't ruin my morning. We do talk about "the easy way or the hard way" of doing things, meaning: You will be dressed whether you like it or not; if I dress you it will be "the hard way" and if you dress yourself it will be the easy way.

I also happen to believe that a single pop on the bottom does not constitute child abuse (nor do I believe that this "teaches the child to solve problems through violence," what a crock), and I use it in conjunction with time-outs. I seem to be in the minority on this issue, however, so I'll just remind the moderator here to keep me anonymous.


My best advice is to read "Children, the Challenge" by Rudolf Dreikurs, which is available at Cody's. I've mentioned it on this newsgroup several times in the past and can't recommend it enough for how to deal with young children who have you under their control. (And bright, clever, sweet children are often the most capable of putting parents under their control.)

One thing that caught my eye was your use of promises. These also sounds like bribery to me. Positive reinforcement is best used without the child knowing or expecting they will get it.

I know a preschool teacher who once brought her son to preschool in his pyjamas, with his clothes in the bag, because he refused to get dressed. Sometimes picking up and carrying a child or leading them by the hand (without words or show of emotion) is the best way to deal with a situation where they have to go somewhere and they refuse.


My four-year-old "angel" exhibited the same type of behavior and I found it very upsetting. You feel like such a parenting failure. We had quite a few show-downs and happily now, we seem to be growing out of it after about six months. For us, the hardest times were when she was sleepy or hungry or when her routine was changed so that she felt out-of-control in some way. I really felt like we had regressed and found that I had to slow down and let her scream/cry/yell it out every once in awhile. I kept repeatin which behaviors I appreciated and was proud of and what I felt like when she had a meltdown (we had the discussions after every had cooled down). It actually seemed to help to explain why the tantrums were hurtful; almost seemed like a light bulb went on a couple times. I believe it's just another one of those darned phases, because the sweet little kid is returning to us little by little. Whew!
I gave some more thought to my reply. Dreikurs doesn't actually say much about rewards, except in the sense of "You can [do what the child asked to do] after you [do something the parent wants done]." This isn't considered a bribe because it is in response to a child's request for some special thing, such as eating a candy bar or watching TV. In contrast, I often let my son knows he can have some special treat as a reward for good behavior on errands with me, which I guess can be thought of as a bribe. But I let stand my statement about positive reinforcement: at least in the Dreikursian sense, it is an unexpected reward for good behavior. The idea behind it is that a child will behave all the time if they never know when the reward will come. Dreikurs also mentions a different tactic: when the child is misbehaving, unexpectedly give them a big hug. Dreikurs thinks a misbehaving child is a discouraged child (in some sense -- I've known other parents to get upset at this idea) and by giving them a hug, you're giving them some encoragement. I actually do this with my son from time to time when he's refusing to do something and it's become a match of egos.
My now 12 year old daughter showed the same behavior, and she did not change. That is her temperament, but there are ways of working with it. We also have the complication of ADHD and it can be difficult to separate from the temperament issues. Getting up in the morning and going to bed at night are still two of our most difficult times of day, but any transition is difficult. Threats, yelling, peer pressure, didn't work. Bribes sometimes worked, but not in an ongoing way. We have used a behavior chart with some success, with clear expectations, incentives, and little room for negotiating. We work on one behavior at a time, and we started with getting up in the morning. We relaxed out standards on morning grooming also. I am currently reading a book called Your Defiant Child by Russell Barkley and wish it had been written when my child was younger. Check with your pediatrician, Bananas, the Family Forum, or any other referral source for parenting classes for recommendations on classes on managing temperament Kaiser's classes are often open to non-members also.
I don't have any kids yet, but I have babysat two girls (1-1/2 and 4) once a week since they were born. Their parents don't dress them in pjs after their baths on weeknights--they just put them to bed in their clothes for the next day. Seems like this might be a good way of avoiding one of your morning battles!
I, too, have a 4 year old who fancies himself in control. His manifests itself in refusals to get dressed (still a problem), as well as potty training(now accomplished - finally). I agree and appreciated reading the other responses to this issue. What has worked for me:

a) with potty training - a sticker chart with special treats if he got 5 stickers in a day. The best part of this system was that it immediately converted a power struggle situation to a positve reinforcement situation; from my issue to his. The special treats included such things as - play blocks, play legos, blow bubbles, computer time etc. The best treats were those that we could do together in the evening of a 'successful' day - one in which he got a certain number of stickrs - not necessarily that he was perfect. The goal was set low enough so that he obtained a special treat almost every day. It worked.

b) with getting dressed - sometimes just counting eg. you have until I count to 20 to get these clothes on; when this doesn't work at first, sometimes if I then turn my attention to something else he'll startt to get dressed and ask me to count.

The key for him seems to be providing some direct structure, and avoiding the power struggles for as long as time allows.


Regarding power struggles with young children, this is an issue that almost every parent has. Young children are egocentric and unpredictable, which makes them very hard to live with. Please have hope--things will get easier as they grow up.

Getting ready for school is a classic struggle. At the preschool where I teach, I let parents know that all they have to do is put some clothes in a bag and the children in the car seat and drive them here. We will see to it that they get dressed, and we provide breakfast. This takes the pressure off the parents and makes it clear to the children that the real reason to do these things is not to satisfy their parents, but to meet the expectations of the larger society.

Interestingly, only one child has actually shown up at school in her pj's (yes, she refused to get dressed). I had her stay in an area away from where the action was and told her that when she was dressed, she could play. "People at school don't play in pyjamas", I told her. She got dressed pretty quickly and hasn't had difficulty with dressing at home since.


UCB Parents Home Page UCB Parents Recommendations UCB Parents Advice

The opinions and statements expressed on this page are those of parents who belong to the UC Berkeley Parents Network and should not be taken as a position of or endorsement by the University of California, Berkeley.