Berkeley Parents Network: Breech Baby

Berkeley Parents Network

Breech Baby

Berkeley Parents Network > Advice > Pregnancy & Childbirth > Breech Baby

OB who will do a vaginal breech delivery
Any success using a chiropractor to turn a breech?
Need an OB who can turn a breech
Moxibustion and acupuncture for turning a breech?
Any advice about turning a footling breech?

OB who will do a vaginal breech delivery

June 2006

I need recommendations for OBs in the area (east bay, sf, etc.) who can still do a vaginal breech delivery. I'm only 34 weeks pregnant but it's getting close and I want to plan ahead as much as possible, just in case. I've read past comments/ recommendations, so please don't email me if you are just going to say that baby's health comes first, etc. I am aware of that but also know that a planned vaginal breech, under the right conditions, is just as safe if not safer than all of the c- sections they are performing ( http://valleybirthnetwork.wordpress.com/2006/05/24/vaginal-delivery-of-breech-baby-safe-under-specific-circumstances/ ). What I need is a competent OB who knows how to do a breech delivery (most OBs nowadays don't know how, so that in itself is a risk). I've been doing everything I can to try and turn the baby, too. Thanks in advance for your help! 2nd time mom

You might want to try Dr. Randy Kunhardt. He has an office in San Pablo (delivers at Doctors Hospital, I think) and in Larkspur (delivers at Marin General). He is very amenable to letting the mother guide the birth and he will talk to you about the options. He will do whatever he can to avoid a c-section without putting you or your baby at risk. I decided to try an external version at 35 weeks, and he did it within 15 minutes of me arriving at the hospital. The only pain I experienced was on the skin on my belly from the pulling. Ouch Kunhardt patient

Last year, I was pregnant with twins, and one was breech. I found out that if a breech baby is over 7 pounds, very few, if any, OB's will attempt a vaginal birth. I also was told that the OB's who are older are more likely to be taught and practiced in the art of breech births. Hilary

Madelyn Kahn--CPMC San Francisco. I am a former patient of Dr. Kahn's. I remember from a past conversation that she said she does deliver breech babies. She is a great OB/GYN too! Good luck! T

Dr Hank Streitfeld (private practice, delivers at Alta Bates but I don't know if elsewhere). I found him through BPN where he had excellent reviews. He is a veteran OB who is trained in and will do breech deliveries. I had twins and he was willing to even deliver a breech twin. Luckily baby b turned around. He won't make any guarantees but if anyone can do it he can. You can read more about him on the BPN site. (510) 644-0110 ~ Another Dr Hank Fan

The only place I know of around here that (at least as of 2-3 years ago) is willing to do vaginal breech delivery is UCSF. I did have a friend of a friend who had a vaginal breech delivery there 2-3 years ago. The baby needed life support for the first day and was in the NICU for about a week. However I don't know if those problems were due to UCSF's level of competence and experience with vaginal breech or other factors

Any success using a chiropractor to turn a breech?

August 2003

I'm 34 weeks pregnant and have just learned my baby's breech. I'd like to try everything I can to turn it while there's still time! (I can have an external version at 37 weeks, but I'd rather try other things first.)

I just looked at the recommendations on the website for turning a breech and noticed a few people mentioned chiropractors as being effective, but there were no names or details given. Has anyone had success with chiropractic techniques or have a person to recommend? I've never seen a chiropractor and have no idea what to look for.

Also, any other advice or success stories (acupuncture? weird upside down exercises?) are very welcome. Thank you! Wishing for Upside Down

At 37 weeks, my first baby was breech. My pediatrician had been watching her for a couple weeks before and told me that she would probably turn, but at 37 weeks she thought she was too big to turn. We scheduled an external version for that Monday (38 weeks). Over the weekend, I did the inversion exercises and tried moxibustion (burning Chinese herbs). I didn't really believe it would help... but something must have worked because when I went into the hospital for the version that Monday, the baby had turned!

(At 34 weeks, you still have plenty of time for your baby to turn on her own. As a matter of fact, if you do the exercises too soon, the baby can turn and then turn back while she is still small enough to have room to move.) a new believer

Talk to Saraswati Devi at Yogalayam Yoga Studio on Alcatraz. When I prenatal yoga with her, she helped some of the other moms who had breached babies. She recommends accupuncture and can probably give you the names of some good accupunturists in the area. BW

My baby was breech and I had a version that worked out wonderfully because my baby stayed put. Timing is the key though, so in case you run out of time, or the other ways don't work, I wanted you to know that a version is not all that bad. It was painful (to the point of tears) for the time it took to do the turn and that was about 3 min. I think. I walked out of the hospital without being sore and with a feeling inside that was very different from when I went in an hour earlier. My baby was finally in the right position! good luck. angela

Hi- I am a doula and I chat online with a bunch of other doulas, so I found this website and see if this helps you. Good luck and if you want info about Doulas, please visit my website, listed underneath. Also- be persistent w/ the methods on the site- hopefully this works for you! http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/breechcl.html Shaana

Traditional Chinese Medicine has some low risk treatments for turning the baby. Try Don Gates at East Bay Traditional Chinese Medicine. http://www.eastbaytcm.com 510-428-9430 jen

I would be scared to death of having a chiropractor ''manipulate'' me and possibly causing my placenta to abrupt. And, know that my second child was breech and then not, breech and then not, and then ''unbreeched'' himself, permanently, at about 37 weeks. I would be inclined to follow the advice of a good and trustworthy obstetrician. Good luck Uncomfortable with chiropractics

My cousin had her breech baby turned by her OB and ended up having a nightmare labor -- he was too big for her pelvis. (I do not know the exact term for what happened to her but her pelvis separated & she was in a wheelchair for a month). In retrospect, the OB thought that *may* have been why he was breech. Both are well now. Random occurance probably. Good luck.

The Bradley Method is the technique used by chiropractors to help turn breech babies. Dr. Elon Bartlett, of Bartlett Chiropactics in Berkeley specializes in pre-and-post natal chiropratics is a well respected local source who might be able to help you. Good luck. Helene Byrne author, ''Exercise After Pregnancy: How to Look and Feel Your Best''

When my baby was breech at week 34 my midwife recommended a treatment called moxibustion, an acupuncture-based traditional Chinese remedy. A recent study in the Journal of American Medicine Association found that 75% of breech-positioned fetuses turned with moxibustion, compared to 50% without. Basicially, it involves someone holding a burning cigar of mugwort (''moxa''), very near to a certain point on the side of your pinkie toes. The heat has a similar effect to acupuncture needles, but much, much gentler (needles are used at this pressure point to speed along a difficult labor).

I went to Marti Lee Kennedy [click for review] ...

Hi, I had a Frank Breech baby. She was the right side down by 32 weeks and suddendly turned breech. I tried everything. I did exercises sticking my abdomen up whilst lying on a pillow. I went to have a moxa stick done on my toes with an accupuncturist. I had a version at 37 weeks. Nothing worked! If the baby wants to turn it will on its own, in fact, even during labour. But if it does not like mine, she will decide the fate of her birth not you. I do not mean to sound negative, just realistic. Try everything, and who knows. You may be lucky. But my word of advice is do not get stressed over it. I went into panic mode, seeing it was my first baby and I was adamant on having a natural, drug free vaginal birth. It was not meant to be. She broke my waters 10 days early, even one week before the scheduled c-section, and that was the end of that. Out she came and it went very well. It was not bad at all. I was out and about that same week, with minor pains on my abdomen, but fine. So, good luck, and I hope your baby turns. Otherwise, remember the most important thing is that the baby comes out healthy and that mommy is fine. anon

i haven't tried it personally but we had a lecture in medical school on the high success rate of moxibustion and acupuncture. worth a try! good luck, pedimama

My daughter was breech at 34 weeks. I tried acupuncture. I also tried putting a cold compress (like a bag of frozen peas) on the lump at the top that is the baby's head. The theory is that the baby will move to get away from the cold. Sorry to say, nothing worked for me. My doctor turned her at 36 weeks - successfully! Then I ended up with a c-section anyway due to other factors. So, try anything but remember you are NOT in control of your baby's birth. It's more important that you and your baby are healthy than that he/she comes out head first. patricia

I was in your same position 8 months ago. I also posted to this list and got a lot of wonderful suggestions and I tried them all (upside down on the ironing board, leaning forward on a birthing ball, chiropractor, acupunture, etc.) I also had three attempted versions at Alta Bates as I was determined to do absolutely everything I could to get my baby to turn and at least have a chance at a vaginal delivery. In my case it did not work out (my baby was a footling breech and also had the cord wrapped around his neck making it difficult for him to turn), but I do want to share with you that of all the things I tried, Moxibustion (the acupunture technique) was the most sucessful. We went to Dr. Marti Kennedy on Ashby Ave. (recommend to us by my OB Lisa Keller) and she showed us how to do it at home, which we did for two weeks. Several times while doing it my baby tried to turn himself around and got half way before turning back. This was the same amount they were able to get him turned during the versions before he couldn't turn anymore. So I would highly recommend giving moxibustion a try.

Lastly, while I hope your baby turns and you get a chance at the birth experience you want, I want to add that though I was dreading and terrified to have a c-section, we made the most of it and I ended up thinking it was great and that my child birth experience was the greatest ever and not diminished at all. Once you see your baby nothing else matters (such as how he came out). And because it was scheduled and I did not labor, I was relatively rested after the surgery and could enjoy him more that first day. Other benefits -- no tearing, no streching, no urine leakage, etc. And in my case, it was the safest way for him to be born. Mom of healthy 7-month-old

I have no personal experience but remeber my acupuncturist talking about how this was one of the things acupuncture dealt with best. She also spoke about how turning the baby with acupuncture meant the baby would stay positioned until labor, where the manual turning often resulted in turning back to breech before labor. sha

An acupuncturist with over 20 years experience who specializes in pregnancy issues especially turning breech babies and inducing labor is Laurel Brody [click for review].

Hi. My chiropractor, Elon Bartlett specializes in turning breech babies. His number is 510-843-1234 or check him out at bartlettchiropractic.com. good luck! Shari Washburn

Need an OB who can turn a breech

November 2001

I am pregnant with my first baby. We are 34 weeks pregnant (in the 35th week), and Baby is in the breech position. I have tried pretty much every technique to help Baby turn. While I am aware that Baby may still turn on his/her own, I am also preparing for a birth where Baby may remain in this position. Until now I've been planning a home birth, but I now realize we may need to birth in a hospital. I would like recommendations for OBs anywhere in the Bay Area who are experienced at doing external versions and vaginal breech births. I realize that because of liability concerns most OBs are no longer trained in attending vaginal breech births, and that most doctors would prefer to do a c-section with a first time mom's birth because of an"untested pelvis". I KNOW, however, that there are some doctors out there who might work with me to try a vaginal birth (if Baby is in the frank position). Please share any recommendations you have! Thanks! Catherine

My baby was breech up until about the point yours is, and then he flipped for good. I was very concerned, and I had been looking into the possibility of a vaginal breech birth. Even though at that point I really wanted a "natural birth" (I was exercising, doing prenatal yoga, doing all the reading and prepping for a drug-free vaginal birth), I decided that if everything I did didn't work, I'd just go with the cesarean. Part of my rationale was that because it just isn't done very much any more, whoever I found to do the delivery wouldn't be as practiced at it as is desirable. And I was ultimately more concerned about birth injuries to the baby resulting from a vaginal breech birth than I was about my own recovery from a cesarean. It helped me to reexamine my desires and priorities with regard to the birth, and I came to realize that I wasn't as "in control" as I thought I was, and that a healthy baby was my highest priority. In the end, this was useful, because I wound up having an emergency cesarean (for other reasons). But the birth wasn't a traumatizing experience for me because I had accepted that possibility and was ready for it. And I have to say, nearly all of my fears about an abdominal birth were unfounded--it wasn't bad. And the best thing is, my baby is okay. I know this may not be a popular statement, but cesarean births (judiciously prescribed) aren't as bad as you might think. The last thing I can recommend... have you thought of trying acupuncture? I saw Marti Lee Kennedy during my pregnancy, and she was wonderful. Even if the acupuncture doesn't help, you may find it relaxing and helpful for other pregnancy concerns. Kristine

Laura Stachel delivered my twins, the second one was breech. Aaron Chinn in her practice is one of the few OB's left in town who has been trained to do breech deliveries, and he delivered my breech twin. I understand that most ob-gyn's do not have he training to do breech deliveries and he was the most experienced MD in Berkeley at that time (1995). There are some good videos out there of breech deliveries, so you'll know what to expect.

To the woman whose baby is in breech position - have you gone to an acupuncturist for the very specific treatment for turning babies? It's an herb that is burned and placed at particular points - sounds kooky but is remarkably effective (two of my friends' babies turned within a week of the treatment; one the next day) - I wish I could remember the name of it, but acupuncturists know it. Hope that is helpful. Janeleslie

UCSF is the place. Try calling the FOG group. (That's Faculty OB/Gyn group). They can talk with you about doing a version. Also, call the main hosp # and ask which medical group Paer Sander, MD is in, if he is still at UCSF. I may be a little off on his name but that's close. I know several women who have had breech births there and have been satisfied with the hospital experience, while they too had been planning home births. Good luck! Shari

You may want to contact Dr. Kent Farney at 510 522 3700 who is affiliated with Alameda Hospital and Marin General. I had also planned on a homebirth but ending up delivering in hospital. Dr. Farney was my OB/GYN, I attended him in addition to my midwives. I am not sure of his experience with breech births but he is worth checking out. I also know of someone who had a home breech birth which was also premature but everything was fine. My experience delivering at Alameda Hospital with Dr. Farney was great, I can't say enough good things about the staff and hospital. Mary

I don't know a local OB, but would like to offer some encouragement - if the baby doesn't turn, and chooses to be born breech, staying upright for the delivery is very important - it helps to speed up the birth; gravity helps the contractions to be fully effective; and the pelvis can open freely in this position...also contractions are less painful when you're in an upright position. these books may help: "Active Birth" by Janet Balaskas "Spiritual Midwifery" by Ina May Gaskin and any writings by Michel Odent. If I were to have another child, here in the states, I would consider going over to Ina May Gaskin's community (The Farm), where you can stay for a few weeks over the birth. However, hopefully there is someone sympathetic locally... One of my children (born in England) weighed 10lbs 13oz, and with a birth in a standing position, all went fine. Here in the US I have been devastated to hear of so many C-sections (and routine epidurals...which perhaps contribute to that). Wishing you good luck and I hope you find birth assistants who will allow you the freedom to give birth as you want to... Janice

My 21/2 year old son was breech. The doctor who helped us was named Lisa Keller and she was amazing. She first sent us to an accupuncturist (I was pleasantly surprised she suggested this) but since we were so near our due date, we didn't have enough time... he got half way around! In any case, we felt that if it requried a fetal heart monitor during the external version, perhaps it was too stressful fo the baby and we would pass this option on. Dr. Keller was completely open to our views and said she would do the version at a fraction of the pressure normally done and the minute I said "ouch", she would stop. SHe was successful! It was not a comfortable experience but it was fast and simple.. She was great. Slykahn

I was in the same position as you - breech until the 39th week, tried everything to turn my baby - and my OB and I had an agreement that, were she the one to attend my birth, she would attempt a vaginal delivery. She did, however, have me do pelvis catscan (ct pelvimetry) first to make sure my pelvis was "big enough" and, as it turned out, it wasn't. In any case, she succeeded on the second try to turn my baby with an external version. Her name is Lisa Keller and she is fantastic, in my opinion, and I have no hesitation in recommending her. The number at her office is 843-7722, but I know she is very popular and thus very busy so I don't know if you would be able to see her. I ended up having a cesarean anyway and would also recommend preparing yourself for that possibility because I believe that my baby had her own reason for needing to come out that way no matter what I did, and believe me, I did everything. Good luck and call or write back if you would like to talk further ( Melissa at 336-2562). M.McM

I highly recommend Dr. Patty Robertson at UCSF Medical Center. Her specialty is high risk pregnancies. If I could deliver twins vaginally, where one was a full breech extraction, so can you. My doula was present with me throughout the birth, and I could not have asked for a safer, more caring environment.

I don't want to seem like the harbinger of doom or pessimistic, but when my daughter was born last September, my midwife had a client due around the same time and who had a baby in a breech presentation that just would not turn. My understanding is that most Bay Area hospitals are not willing to do a vaginal breech, for the same reasons that they are not too keen on vbacs. (I delivered my baby, naturally, as a vbac) I skimmed briefly over the responses and noticed that some of them came from women with five year old and two year olds- a lot has changed form then till now, many practices err on the conservative side, mainly due to malpractice insurance. I think UCSF is one of the only hospitals that will accept vaginal breeches. Others might allow a trial of labor, I am not sure here and might be talking out of my hat. I just called my midwife who told me that Patricia Robertson is the doctor to call at UCSF, meaning that she is someone who might agree to one. Apparently a study just came out a few weeks ago stating that while delivering breech presentations by cesarean section might have not so great on outcome for the mother, breech babies delivered vaginally had more problems. As compared to what, I don't know, and as far as what problems the mother experiences I don't know specifically either- emotionally, physical healing time are probably some factors. Anyway, the study did state that those that were the most experienced in delivering breeches vaginally had the most success, so those birth centers in Europe that deliver breeches frequently had fewer problems. So the study has done to vaginal breech deliveries what a study on pitocin and vabacs did for vbacs- make more conventional doctors shy away from the procedure and follow the path of the familiar and invasive. So as far as a vaginal birth in a hospital, my midwife told me that there are a couple of factors dictating that outcome- firstly you will have to have a CT to measure your pelvis size; then an ultrasound to measure the size of the baby. The baby would have to have a flexed head and weigh less than eight pounds and you would have to be willing to have an epidural during labor. There is no compromise with the epidural, it is for if they have to do manipulations during labor or have to rush off and do a c-section. Of course the best outcome would be for the baby to turn, things you can do to try to turn the baby (forgive me if you have heard some or all of these) a version, shine a bright flashlight down by your pubic bone, place headphones and play music down by your pelvic bone, find a swimming pool and walk on your hands, there are homeopathic remedies, and lastly a chiropractor who can do Webster's Chiropractic technique for baby turning. If you have any questions please feel free to e-mail me and I can pass along my midwife's name and number. Sonya

For the woman seeking information about vaginal breech birth: I recommend you call Dr. Russell Laros at UCSF Medical Center. I am a doula who had clients with a breech baby and they felt very well-cared for by Dr. Laros. Adele

I have been reading with interest the postings regarding vaginal breech birth. I attempted to do it through Kaiser 2 years ago, without success, and since then Kaiser has stopped offering it entirely. I'm glad there are still practitioners out there willing to do it, but I just thought I would put in my two cents. I was very committed to natural childbirth and my baby was small - I had a CT scan beforehand where I was told I was a good candidate for it. I had had an external version (a very unpleasant procedure) and it was unsuccessful. She was my first baby, and I was told labor might be long - I was unprepared for what happened. I labored for 3 days and nights with almost no progress - finally the 3rd night I agreed to a drug cocktail to stop the contractions and to knock me out so I could get rest. When I awoke over 16 hours later, I labored hard for another whole night, and finally got to 3.5 centimeters. I could not imagine being in transition for another 12 hours or so - I had a cesarean finally and my baby was fine. I had a lot of trouble with my milk supply at first, and it the pediatrician suspected it may have had something to do with my exhaustion. Recovery was very tough, because I had worn myself down so much. Anyway, I thought I would share the details because had I known how long my labor was going to be I would not have attempted it. I was told it was because a baby in the breech position does not put enough pressure on the cervix for it to open quickly. Also, I was 37 years old at the time - perhaps age had something to do with it. I am expecting my second child in a few weeks, and sure enough, this one is breech as well. If the version does not work, I will definitely opt for another c-section.

Regarding this subject and a recent message, I just wanna say that unlike the woman that had a three days labor to deliver her breech baby, I labored for less than 3 hours! My baby was breech too. I attempted the external version, and many other alternatives to turn her, since I really wanted to deliver vaginally and without drugs, but nothing worked. Instead of scheduling a c-section, I decided to wait for labor, hoping that my baby could turn during labor. After waiting for a week after the due date, my doctor recommended a c-section. We then scheduled the c-section for a Friday, 7:00 AM. Surprisingly, my labor started at 3:15 in that morning, and I arrived in the hospital at 5:30 AM, completely dilated and effaced. My baby was still breech and they had to give me drugs to slow down the contractions, since I started pushing but hadn´t had a CT scan and they didn´t want to risk a vaginal birth. I ended up having an emergency c-section, and my baby was born at 6:15 AM. So, giving my experience, I have to disagree with the information that says that a baby in the breech position does not put enough pressure on the cervix for it to open quickly. Oh yes, Sarah is my first baby. So, labor isn´t always necessarily long for first moms too... I would like to finish by saying that although I had to deliver through a c-section, I was not disappointed with my birth experience, mainly because I had the opportunity to experience labor. I would definitely wait again! Good luck! Leonora

Moxibustion and acupuncture for turning a breech?

1999

I have heard that moxibustion and acupuncture are useful for turning a breech baby. How exactly does one do moxibustion or where can I read about it? Any recommended acupuncturists with experience turning a breech baby? And what is the best time during pregnancy to attempt moxibustion and/or acupuncture? I am now almost 33 weeks pregnant and my midwife has encouraged me to try to turn the baby (though she had only some excercises to try which I've started). Thank you!

I am 37 weeks pregnant, and just found out that my second baby is in a complete breech position. My first baby was breech, and although I tried several different methods to turn him (including an external version attempt), I ended up having a planned c-section. He was over 11 pounds, so there was evidently not enough room for him to change position.

This baby is much smaller, they think, so I am more hopeful that I can get the baby to turn. Does anyone know of any techniques that might be helpful? I know about moxibustion, lying upside-down, and shining a light near the pubic bone, as well as external version at the hospital, but I am hoping someone knows something (or someone) that might help. Thanks!

Moxibustion (http//www.onhealth.com/alternative/briefs/item,33397.asp ) and acupuncture are widely accepted methods of turning a breech baby. I began acupuncture treatment by Laurel Brody LAc (El Cerrito - 524-5995, she's great and supportive!) in my 30th week and treated myself with moxibustion (provided by Laurel) at the request of my OB. The moxibustion is placed on the outside of the little toe and lit on one end. You can feel the heat, which is sometimes intense, and the smoke has a tendency to induce headaches. I suggest doing the treatments in an open space, preferably outside.

There are numerous other exercises and methods used as an alternative to the ECV. Links to these options can be reviewed at http//pregnancy.about.com/health/pregnancy/msubbreech.htm

In my research regarding breech presentation, I found the most widely reported, effective method of turning the baby was found through chiropractic treatment. I cannot personally attest to this, but it may be worth looking in to.

Although the treatments were not effective in turning our son, if you are willing to wait it out, the baby will often turn once contractions begin. Your midwife will undoubtedly be able to provide the best recommendations for your situation. If this is not a first child, most OBs/midwives will consider breech delivery. Some will attempt this with a first child, but not many. Best of luck! J. H.

I read somewhere that swimming helps turn a breech baby. Can't hurt, in any event. Good luck! Julie

I went to a GREAT acupuncturist for pre-term labor when I was pregnant. Her name is Laurel Brody and she practices in El Cerrito and Sabastapol. I think she is only in El Cerrito 2 days a week now. The majority of her patients are women and most are pregnant women. She worked as a dula before she became an acupuncturist. I would very highly recommend her. I don't have her number on hand but she is listed. Good Luck! Royce

I also know that chiropractic is effective at turning a breech baby. You should go as soon as you can and it can take a couple of weeks for the baby to turn. You will probably have to go at least 3 times each week. Moshe

My husband, Brian Barlay, is an acupuncturist and he has used moxibustion to turn breech babies around. His office is in Berkeley and his phone number is 510.540.0544. I'm sure he would be happy to answer any questions you have. Good Luck! Leah

I'm not sure what moxibustion is, but maybe my experience will my breech baby will help (?). Our doula recommended that I do some exercises which were awkward with my big belly, and only caused by back to hurt more. We had the version (getting baby manually turned around) during my 34th week, and we were blessed that she stayed put. However, I stopped going to prenatal yoga (we did a lot of dipping moves there), and I didn't do anything too athletic for fear she'd pop back around.

My doctor got up on the hospital bed with me, and with one fist on the top of my belly, and the other on the bottom, turned our baby around within a few minutes (she used an ultrasound screen to see where the umbilical cord was).

As far as when is the best time to turn a baby, she said that the baby was small enough at that time in the pregnancy to move her (bigger babies don't always turn because there is less room, and boys are not always successful because they are about 1 pound heavier). Also, she said that there was ample amniotic fluid to do the turn. If your other methods don't work, you may want to also consider a version. It was so worth the try, and it was only painful for a few minutes. I wish you all the luck for a baby that turns around, whichever method you use. Angela

I have a sister-in-law who is studying to be a chiropractor. I remember having a conversation with her a while ago where she told me about a new technique (or maybe it was a study of a technique already in use) where the chiropractor could do some sort of manipulation that would cause the baby to turn. I don't know anything else about it. I don't even know if it is something that I would consider doing myself. BUT if you are interested you could probably call around to find a chiropractor who has experience working with pregnant women to find out about it.

In addition to the methods you mentioned, I also tried lying upside down with headphones on the lower part of my abdomen(the theory is that the baby will turn around to hear the music.) But then, I too had a cesarean.

Call Dr. Lisa Keller at 843-7722. She turned my baby at 42 weeks and 8+ lbs via an external version. She has the best hands in the business!

I was carrying a baby in an "unstable transverse lie" and they scheduled a version, but my family practice doctor suggested I just try acupuncture first. I am pretty agnostic about alternative medicines generally, but for what its worth, I had the acupuncture on friday, then went in for the OB version consult on Monday, and at the ultrasound in his office the OB told me the baby had turned on her own. The acupuncturist was Peter van Arsdale, in Berkeley. Good luck, Allison

Any advice about turning a footling breech?

1998

Hi Does anyone have information, advice or experiences to share re turning a footling breech baby, either by an external version, or other methods? Thanks. Lindy

I had an external version performed to turn my baby, who was also breech (though I don't know if she was a footling breech). The version was unsuccessful, though I am glad I tried it. I believe the average success rate is about 50%, although it gets lower as you get closer to your due date (I don't remember the magic number -- I seem to remember it was at about 37 or 38 weeks that you see a dramatic decrease in the success rate). Also, if the baby has "dropped" into the pelvis, it is less likely to work (obviously). Basically, your doctor and another will massage the heck out of your stomach. The nurse who prepped me for it said, "now, some women find this uncomfortable." That was the understatement of the year. But it was certainly bearable. If you decide to do it, have someone there whose hand you can squeeze to help relieve the pain. I also used the focal point and breathing exercises I had learned in childbirth classes, which also seemed to help. You should also be aware that you'll be very, very sore for a few days afterwards. I think I must have had some tremendous internal bruising. I felt like I had met a couple of thugs in a dark alley. It was excrutiating every time the baby kicked for the next two or three days. But again, I felt that it was worth a try. Good luck! Sarah

I have some experience in this area. Both of my babies turned breech. The second baby turned back on his own, but my first child had to be turned externally. My babies were not 'footling' breech, they were both 'transverse sly' (which means they are spine down), but the experience of turning a baby externally is the same either way.

I had never heard of a baby being turned externally since this was my first pregnancy, so at the time, I knew nothing about it. I did ask the doctor if it would hurt. And her answer was, "Well, not as bad as us cutting you open to get the baby out." To which my answer was, "Go for it!"

In any case, there were three adults (a doctor, a nurse and a midwife) turning the baby while they watched the ultrasound monitor to make sure she didn't get the cord wrapped around her neck, etc. It was painful for a few minutes, but it was over very soon. I'm glad I did it because she stayed turned and I was able to deliver her vaginally a few days later.

Then, 11 1/2 months later when I was in labor with my son, the same thing happened and I was ready to have them turn him again, when he miraculously turned back around on his own when they stopped the pitocin. The reason I mention the second time is for this reason: Even though it was painful, I decided to go ahead and have him turned because even though I knew how much it was going to hurt, it was worth it to me to go through 5 - 10 minutes of pain versus being forced to have a C-Section.

All that to say, it hurts quite a bit for a few short minutes, but it may allow you to deliver vaginally if the baby decides to stay put after being moved. I hope this helps. April

I am willing to discuss my experiences (privately) with external version (I tried it twice) and alternative methods for turning a breech baby. Mine would not turn but I would do it all again... Sandra

We discovered that our baby was a footling breech around 37 weeks. My dr. made an appointment for the external version and I immediately called my accupuncturist. I went in for treatment 2 times before the version appointment. The day of the appointment I went in and she had turned. The next day, the ultrasound showed she'd turned breech again. So I did more accupuncture and lo and behold, at the next version appointment she was head down, where she stayed until birth. The Alta Bates nurses all agreed that it was the accupuncture (I'd even stood on my hands in the YMCA pool, not a pretty sight to say the least) that made her turn and I'd have to agree. No needles used, rather my practitioner (and later my hubby) burned moxie sticks near certain points on my body (little toe, hands and lower legs). Doesn't hurt and it worked! I'd be happy to recommend my accupuncturist if you need a name. Good luck Lucinda

Ten years ago my nurse practitioner was unhappy with the feel of my 8 month pregnancy; I was sent for an immediate ultrasound. The baby was footling breech and (as it was apparently easy to see) a girl.

I had external version by a well-respected, experienced OB-Gyn (Kanwit). It was extremely uncomfortable and did not work. The baby would only turn part way and then would shift back when pressure was released. I was pretty callously informed I would have to have a C-section.

I did not spend any further time looking into version, but I did some research on footling breeches. Their delivery outcomes were actually pretty normal when the condition was recognized in advance and with an experienced practitioner. However, no hospital in the Bay Area (I tried as far as Stanford) would let me deliver; from this I concluded the odds of finding a doctor who had actually delivered a footling breech were pretty damn small.

The C-section was terrifying but completely uneventful. I made Kanwit verify she was still breech before I would let them give me the spinal (I am terrified of needles.) The down foot was apparently very easy to feel in a pelvic!

My beautiful daughter had a full head of black hair, lungs like a stevedore ---and an umbilical cord wrapped three times around her neck. Trying a normal delivery would have been a disaster. Per Kanwit, the cord wrapped around her neck was probably what kept her from turning.

Although I only had the one section, I have to say that compared to friends who had them after going into labor, recovery was much better. You're prepared (if not ready), not exhausted, your systems start functioning again more quickly so they let you do neat things like eat and get out of bed. Faced with similar circumstances I think I would prefer to just have the C-section and not bother with version. HOWEVER, ultrasound technology has gotten so much better they may be able to visualize the cord now, which would have removed this risk factor; if they can, I might be willing to try external version. I would not try any method without monitoring, as you want to avoid going into labor as long as possible. Chris

PS She's dishwater blonde now but the lungs remain!

I don't know what you mean exactly by footling breech, but my baby was still breech at 37 weeks. I had started with Brian Barlay Acupuncturist (510 540 0544, 1720 Bancroft Way) at 35 weeks with a treatment that had a high success in China. He's had some success with it. It didn't work with me, nor did the special tea he prepared. I ended up at Alta Bates where the baby was turned. It was over in a few minutes, the preparations took longer than the actual turning. It wasn't painful for me. The baby stayed head down (I went to a step class right after and kept walking the rest of the day). Anneke

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