Breech Baby
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Breech Baby
Sept 2006
Hi twin parents,
I'm 23 weeks pregnants with twins, and I have a question about
OBs. I am currently seeing a doctor at Alta Bates whom I really
like, but she says that unless both my twins are vertex (head
down), she won't attempt a vaginal delivery. I have heard from
two professionals (a doula who has attended multiple twin births
and an OB nurse at a hospital in Walnut Creek) that some doctors
will allow you to try a vaginal birth as long as twin A (the one
positioned to come out first) is vertex. They tell me that this
is rarely results in the dreaded vaginal twin A followed by
C-section twin B. Frequently the second baby turns by itself once
the first one is out, or it can be turned by manual manipulation.
If the second baby does not turn, a breech extraction can be
performed.
I have two questions: Can anyone share their experiences with a
vertex/breech twin birth? And does anyone know an OB in or near
Berkeley who is comfortable with a vaginal delivery when only the
first twin is vertex?
Thanks
twin mom-to-be
Hi -- I had vertex/vertex twins, and my OB/Gyn Bill Isenberg (at
OB/Gyn Partners for Health-- across the street from Summit
Hospital) was all for vaginal birth if Twin A was vertex. She
was, and remained so until delivery. (I wound up with a c-
section after a failed induction, but that's another matter
entirely!). I loved Dr. Isenberg, and loved his non-alarmist
approach to my pregnancy. He did say that an epidural would be
advisable/necessary in case he wound up needing to do a breech
extraction of Twin B (even if they are vertex initially, when
Twin A is out, there is so much ''extra'' room in there that even
a vertex baby can turn breech). Anyhow, if you are thinking of
changing OBs at this stage, and your insurance permits, I highly
recommend Dr. Isenberg.
Jo
You may try Arzou Ashan. While caring for me/my twins a couple
years ago, she said she would try to deliver both my twins
vaginally and knew of some methods to attempt to turn twin B
around. She recommended that I don't ask a doctor to go out of
his/her comfort zone, should she not be at the delivery. Dr.
Ashan actually didn't deliver my twins, a colleague did, Dr
Nan, who massaged my abdomen until my 2nd twin turned around to
be delivered.
Anon
As a labor and delivery nurse, I have seen successful vaginal
births such as yours occur. I would transfer care to a physician
who is willing to do a vaginal breech birth or allow your baby
to turn, once more room is made by the delivery of baby #1.
Dr. Bill Isenberg is well versed in these kind of deliveries and
may be the person you need to speak to. Good luck. His office
number is (510) 893-1700
June 2006
I need recommendations for OBs in the area (east bay, sf, etc.) who can still do a
vaginal breech delivery. I'm only 34 weeks pregnant but it's getting close and I want
to plan ahead as much as possible, just in case. I've read past comments/
recommendations, so please don't email me if you are just going to say that baby's
health comes first, etc. I am aware of that but also know that a planned vaginal
breech, under the right conditions, is just as safe if not safer than all of the c-
sections they are performing ( http://valleybirthnetwork.wordpress.com/2006/05/24/vaginal-delivery-of-breech-baby-safe-under-specific-circumstances/ ). What I
need is a competent OB who knows how to do a breech delivery (most OBs
nowadays don't know how, so that in itself is a risk). I've been doing everything I
can to try and turn the baby, too. Thanks in advance for your help!
2nd time mom
You might want to try Dr. Randy Kunhardt. He has an office in San Pablo (delivers at Doctors
Hospital, I think) and in Larkspur (delivers at Marin General). He is very amenable to
letting the mother guide the birth and he will talk to you about the options. He will do
whatever he can to avoid a c-section without putting you or your baby at risk. I decided to
try an external version at 35 weeks, and he did it within 15 minutes of me arriving at the
hospital. The only pain I experienced was on the skin on my belly from the pulling. Ouch
Kunhardt patient
Last year, I was pregnant with twins, and one was breech. I found out that if a breech baby
is over 7 pounds, very few, if any, OB's will attempt a vaginal birth. I also was told that
the OB's who are older are more likely to be taught and practiced in the art of breech
births. Hilary
Madelyn Kahn--CPMC San Francisco. I am a former patient of Dr. Kahn's. I remember from a
past conversation that she said she does deliver breech babies. She is a great OB/GYN too!
Good luck!
T
Dr Hank Streitfeld (private practice, delivers at Alta Bates but I don't know if elsewhere).
I found him through BPN where he had excellent reviews. He is a veteran OB who is trained in
and will do breech deliveries. I had twins and he was willing to even deliver a breech twin.
Luckily baby b turned around. He won't make any guarantees but if anyone can do it he can.
You can read more about him on the BPN site. (510) 644-0110 ~ Another Dr Hank Fan
The only place I know of around here that (at least as of 2-3
years ago) is willing to do vaginal breech delivery is UCSF. I
did have a friend of a friend who had a vaginal breech delivery
there 2-3 years ago. The baby needed life support for the first
day and was in the NICU for about a week. However I don't know
if those problems were due to UCSF's level of competence and
experience with vaginal breech or other factors
May 2006
I'm 35 weeks pregnant with my first baby and the baby's still
laying sideways! I REALLY want to avoid a c- section so I'm
trying the excercises my doctor recommended (propping up
pelvis, laying on the floor with my rear in the air) and I'm
wondering if anyone has actually had them work. Has anyone
tried anything else that worked to turn their baby? I'm
willing to try anything! Thanks
Hoping my baby turns
My 5 month old was a breech baby. On my midwife's suggestion, I tried
exercise and accupressure (nothing
worked) but finally I had to turn the baby externally ( external
version). I was very worried and stressed before, but it took only 5
seconds to turn the baby. The entire process takes longer than this
because they monitor the baby before and after. The process wasn't
painful at all.
I was very worried because I only read postings from those who had bad
experiences with turning. The doctor told me that usually it's easy if
the baby is going to turn (1/2 of probability). I highly recommend Dr.
Janet Goldman(n) of east bay prenatal.
Just relax and try as much as you can. If nothing works, you can still
have your baby safely by C-section. I was so worried because like you I
did not want C-section, but anxiety didn't help the baby turn. I've
heard that sometimes babies don't turn because their mom is under
stress.
My labor already started when my advisor signed my ph.D thesis. I
delivered my baby early next morning.
External version worked
My son was ''footling breech'' at around 33 weeks. OB was a bit alarmed.
I did the exercises. He turned a few weeks later, although I can't say
that the exercises are what did it.
I also saw my very skilled yoga instructors working in the prenatal
class with an expectant mom who was trying to get her baby to turn. You
might want to check that out if yoga is for you.
anon
I had a breech baby up until about 37 weeks...I did ALL the traditional
suggestions. I lay on a tilt table upside down for 20 minutes a day
(much more comfortable than laying on the floor, gets a better tilt as
well - you can use an ironing board tilted on the couch if you can't
find a tilt table), I took homeopathic medicine (can't recall what
though...got it from my midwife), I went to several sessions with a
chiropractor for the ''webster technique'' (went to Elon Bartlett in
Berkeley) and went to an acupuncturist as well. Since I was trying
anything and everything I'm not sure what did the magic but something
worked at the very last minute (my son was born a few days after he
flipped into position). Good luck!
Amy
I put ice packs on my tummy on top of my sideways baby's head and she
turned head- down. Perhaps she would have turned anyway, but it's
harmless enough to try.
Baby flipper
I guess we'll both see in the next few weeks if these exercises work as
my baby is still breech too. However, we had a long talk about this with
our midwives yesterday (we're hoping to have a homebirth but can't if it
remains breech.) They were saying that besides sitting/laying with my
hips higher than my back that there are several other things we can try
before trying an external manipulation at 36 weeks. One was simply to
think ''head down'' everytime I think of the baby, to imagine in my mind
seeing it turn, and for my husband to talk to it near my pelvis instead
of up near my chest. They said some people shine a flashlight down near
the pelvis because babies can see and react to light now. They also said
that in 2-4 weeks (I'm a few weeks behind
you) they can recommend some acupuncture and homeopathy that has seemed
to work for others, although I don't know the specifics on this yet.
Finally, they said that breech births don't have to automatically mean
having a c-section, depending on what type of breech it is. They said if
the feet are first, that is the more dangerous type of breech, but the
butt-first breeches aren't that much more risky than head down, you just
have to find a doctor willing to try it. (And they said that's less
risky than a c-section which has a 4x higher maternal mortality rate
than a vaginal delivery.) Supposedly there's a good one at UCSF, Dr.
Pear (not sure of the spelling), an Englishman, who regularly does
vaginal breech births with no problems. They say that in most other
industrialized countries, the doctors have very good success attending
vaginal breech births but the problem here is that doctors are scared of
them and don't try them so they don't
have experience with them.
Good luck!
Ann
My daughter was breech & I managed to turn her using the upside-down
method. I put headphones on the bottom of my tummy & played soft music &
lay on the floor while I have my hips & legs up on the couch. I think my
acupuncturist may have also done some treatment (it was 4 years ago!) to
help out. At any rate, by her due date she had turned head-down. So it
does work sometimes, though I've heard some babies manage to flip back
to breech again after turning! Good luck!
valerie
best of luck with this! i know it was extremely stressful for my family
when we found out i had a breech at the end of 36 weeks. i was at an
amazing birth facility that was going to let me attempt the vaginal
breech, but when my water broke a week later, and nothing happened for
two days, i ended up with surgery.
i did try two versions. they are extremely painful. neither worked. i
also tried the acupuncture (moxibustion) which was also unsuccessful. i
did end up finding out there was a reason for the breech (bicorunate
uterus) which was a little bit of relief for me. but try the exercises!
i did more swimming that week that i had in years.
just keep in mind there may be a reason for it. i did have a friend who
was breech at the same time and her version was successful, so it is
definitely something to consider.
breech mommy
My first child was breech and I found out around 34 weeks. I layed on
an ironing board, did acupunture (moxibustion), and other various
things. I considered an external version, but my husband and I were
frightened by the possible risks. Ultimately I felt that my daughter
was not going to turn and I accepted the reality of a c-section. I
realized that her health was most important and a c-section is just as
beautiful a birth as a natural birth. I just had my second child via
c-section and had a wonderful experience. I healed so incredibly well
from both births. I know that sometimes the positions and moxibustion
do work; I guess only if your child was meant to turn! Good luck with
your birth...it will be beautiful either way!
Nicole
I missed the original post, but I wanted to say that I learned my first
baby was breech at 34 weeks, and despite my efforts, she never turned.
I tried lying on a tilted board head down, moxibustion, accupuncture,
frozen packs on the top of my belly, music near my pelvis, and all sorts
of combinations of the above. I also tried an external version -- it
did not work. I remember that each new person I consulted told me that
the baby would definitely turn, which added to my frustration that the
baby didn't, so I just wanted to let you know that yours may not, and
that it's perfectly fine if s/he doesn't. I had a c- section, which
wasn't my first choice, but it turned out fine.
Birth is such a small part of bringing a new person into the world.
never turned
Oh, how I remember scouring the archives to find out the same answer! I
tried everything too, as did many of your other respondents -
moxabustion, acupuncture, Webster technique, frozen peas on my belly in
the hot bath, yoga, slant board many times a day, meditation, even a
musical jam session where we all focused on ''turning'' him and played
tunes accordingly (one of the most fun, and probably least effective
methods I tried!). I truly felt that moxabustion was the most effective,
since I could feel the baby be very active almost immediately when
holding the moxa stick to the side of my baby toe nail.
It was amazing, but still, baby didn't turn. And then the morning I was
scheduled for an ECV, my water broke instead, and within two hours when
someone finally examined me I was fully dilated and wanting to push..I
had to be rushed into a C- section. I felt very fortunate that I got to
experience labor, and it was good for my little one's lungs. I had
low-ish amniotic fluid and was being monitored for that towards the end,
and am a small person, so maybe that had something to do with it being
hard for my stubborn little prince to turn. But, what I want to say
most of all is that having a C-section was my worst, worst fear, and it
turned out to be truly not scary at all, with pretty easy recovery. It
didn't cross my mind to freak out on the operating table as I had
feared, and seeing my baby was the most amazing thing. The worst part
was not feeling my legs for a few hours afterwards, but I was still
breastfeeding immediately after and my baby never left me from the time
they wheeled me into the recovery room (this was all at Alta Bates on
Ashby). Please try not to stress too much - if your baby doesn't turn,
there is probably some good reason for that like the shape of your
uterus and cord around his/her neck. One psychodynamic interpretation
is that baby is trying to stay close to momma's heart to comfort her (I
made sure to try to release my baby from any need to care for me
psychologically too, though I didn't buy too much into this
interpretation!) But, whatever happens, it will all still be ok!
Now I'm pregnant again, so we'll see how this one ends up!
-Happy Mom of a Silly Stubborn Baby Who Just Wouldn't Turn, Who Is Now a
Silly Stubborn Adorable Toddler
July 2005
So, I'm at 33 weeks now and my little baby is practically standing up in my belly. My
doctor's giving it a 50/50 chance of him turning before 37 weeks, at which time we
decide to either turn the baby manually (which I understand is neither pleasant nor
particularly effective) or schedule a C.
I'd like to hear from other women who were in similar situations. Did you try having
your doctor turn the baby--and did you have any luck? Did you try acupuncture?
Standing on your head? Doing somersaults in the pool? Sleeping upside-down on an
ironing board propped up against the couch? (I've heard it all.)
Lisa
My daughter was breech and I tried chinese medicine and two versions but
she never turned and I ended up having a C section. (I thought the C
section was just fine and the recovery didn't seem bad.) One thing my
midwife suggested:
after the chinese medicine and first version attempt didn't work out, my
midwife scheduled my c-section for 39 weeks (before my water broke). On
this date, the doc gave me an epidural, and then tried to do another
version attempt on the operating table. It didn't hurt me at all
because of the epidural so they could push really, really hard to try to
turn her. Had my daughter turned I would have gone home after the
epidural wore off and waited for natural labor. She didn't turn, so I
had a c- section right then. Good luck! Definitely try the versions...
it hurts a little bit but not that bad and they'll stop pushing when you
ask them to stop.
happy mama
My baby was breech at 37 weeks and I had the external cephalic version
procedure at 38 weeks. It was not successful (she had dropped a day or
two before) but it was not uncomfortable.
It was like a very firm massage, and I experienced slight soreness
similar to light bruising afterwards. I was nervous, but the doctor who
conducted the procedure told me if it hurt, it was being done wrong and
to let him know. An ultrasound and fetal monitor were used throughout
the procedure.
I've heard of success with acupuncture, however we had an arduous time
getting to that point and decided not to do any procedure off-monitor,
given the risk of fetal distress in turning with little room left in the
uterus.
I did have a scheduled c-section and my daughter was born with her legs
around her ears. It would have been a very difficult birth with greater
risk to her and to me.
At the time, I was very disappointed to miss the vaginal birth, but 6
months later, we have a healthy, happy baby and no regrets. Ultimately,
the healing process from the c-section wasn't that bad.
Good luck, whaever you decide to do!
Been There
My son was breech, too, and I had wanted a drug free vaginal delivery. I
had one session of acupuncture, followed by moxibustion which I did at
home every day. It involved placing an herb between the toes, lighting
it, and letting it get a little hot before removing it. I tried talking
to the baby, asking him to turn, and I tried gently pushing on him while
being in a tilted position. Then, I got really desperate and had the
doctor push on him, but he would not budge. By week 37, he still hadn't
turned, so we ended with a c-section at 38 weeks. Even though I really
wanted a natural birth, I felt that it was overall safer to have the
surgery than to risk brain damage (or worse) from hypoxia. I keep
wondering if he would have flipped on his own, though,if given enough
time, since I've heard they can do that quickly when they're finally
ready. Right now I feel like I did most of those things out of sheer
desperation, but that it really is up to the baby, and may depend on his
physical environment. I know the cord was wrapped around my son's neck
when they took him out, so maybe that was why he wouldn't budge when
they pushed on him earlier, and maybe that was why he couldn't move on
his own.
Susan
Hi - I went through your exact situation. My little girl was found to be
in a frank breech (legs up, head up) position at 34 weeks or so.
I did it all, acupuncture, chiropractic and the evenutal ''version'' -
the doctors turning the baby which was successful, my little one stayed
head down until I went into labor. I really, really wanted to avoid a
c-section. In the end, she never ended up dropping down properly into my
pelvis and I had to have a c-section anyway. I don't know if the version
screwed up her natural ability to drop or what.
It's a very stressful situation to go through particularly because there
are fewer and fewer doctors that even know how to deliver a breech baby
and depending on where you are there might not even be one. Which makes
it's particularly nerve racking should you go into labor and move
quickly, ie the baby starts to come before you're even in the hospital.
If I had to do it all differently I would have done the acupunture and
chiropractic hands down. They both made me healthier and more ready for
labor and they made me much more able to move around toward the end of
my pregnancy when I was very big and heavy.
I would not have done the version. I would have waited until the last
possible moment for her to turn because in retrospect I think she was
going to turn, but wanted to do so in her own time. Versions are old
mid-wife tricks, and my doctors were totally great. The other draw back
for me was that I am RH negative and I needed to get another shot of
Rogam (sp?) after the version. In the future I really want to avoid
getting that many shots of Rogam because it is a vaccine and it does
contain harmful ingredients.
I'm not sure I would have ''scheduled'' a c-section just because if it's
your first baby, the odds weigh heavily on you having a long labor and
delivery in which case you can make it to the hospital and allow your
baby to go through some labor. There are many benefits for the baby and
you in going through
labor. But time is of the essence when your baby is breech.
So long labors aren't beneficial for a breech baby.
hope that helps.
from breech to c-section
From all of the research that I have read, the success of having the
OB/GYN turn the baby is less than the success attributed to
acupuncture- go figure! My bet is for the acupuncture, less stressful
for both of you, and if it does not work, you can still try to have the
M.D.s do it. I do not know about the other methods you have described.
Good Luck and best wishes for a healthy baby, however he decides to come
out.
c-section mommy
Dear Breech,
My daughter was breech and I opted not not have her verted. I was
afraid of the pain and just ''knew'' she'd turn on her own once I
stopped working and had some time to relax. I did try acupuncture and
moxie(?) - which didn't work for me. I ended up having a CSect. In
retrospect, I wish I had tried to have her turned. I was able to have a
VBAC with my second. I thought the vaginal birth, tho painful, was a
fabulous experience. I am so glad I got to push my baby out rather than
have her ''delivered''.
Personally, I think it's worth it to try everything you can to avoid a
CSect (it's also harder to get your stomach muscles back after being
cut). If your baby turns back up, at least you'll have tried everything
possible.
Good Luck and I wish you a Wonderful Birth Experience no matter what you
decide.
My first baby was breech and I tried almost everything. Accupuncture,
standing on my head, sommersaults in the pool, lying almost upside down,
etc. I decided against the manual turning because I kind of figured that
there must be some reason she was moving so much and not turning. Turns
out there was! When they did a detailed ultrasound they found that the
cord was wrapped around her neck and if she turned she'd have strangled
herself. So, c-section it was and it was totally fine and actually a
very positive experience. There really were a lot of benefits to have a
c-section and my recovery was not too much worse than some of my friends
who delivered vaginally but had tears and burst blood vessels. Hope this
helped!
Lynn
In the last trimester of my first pregnancy my yoga enthusiast brother
in law suggested I do a modified shoulder stand against the wall, with
help from another adult to get in position, in order to turn a breech
baby. The first time I got in this position, I felt the baby turn. It
was incredible. Good luck to you.
sarah
I had a baby almost exactly a year ago (7/29/2004). He was breech right
up to about 38 weeks. We found out about the breech at about 37 weeks,
and promptly scheduled a version (manually turning the baby from
outside). But I scheduled the version for about 10 days later, at
really the latest possible time recommended (if you wait too long the
baby is too big to turn).
I then spent in the intervening time trying to get the baby to turn via
other methods. I had acupuncture (Laural Brody, since retired, sorry).
I also laid upside down on a slanted board, with a bag of cold peas on
my tummy (where the head is, to get the guy to turn around), a radio
between my legs (they say they will turn to hear the music), and
moxibustion burning on my little toes. And did I feel a bit ridiculous?
Yes. Also, it is damn hard to get in and out of that position when you
are 9 months pregnant. It was physically impossible for me to put the
moxibustion on my toes myself; my husband had to do it. So, I did this
almost every night for a little over a week. The day that I went in for
my version, the baby had not turned. But, .., when the doctor came in
to do the version, he barely had to touch me. He felt for the baby's
position, then gave one little nudge, and whoosh, he was turned around.
Really, it did not hurt at all, and it was over in about 15 seconds. I
was still waiting for it to start, when the doctor told me the baby was
already turned around. Everyone there -- my midwife, the nurse, and the
doctor, were all amazed at how easy it was. (FYI, this was at Alta
Bates and the doctor was someone I never saw before or since who was
with East Bay Perinatal, I believe. The midwives and nurses say he has
magic hands for these versions. Sorry I cannot remember his name.) So,
my personal theory is that all the other stuff I did, while it did not
actually make the baby turn, laid the groundwork, as it were, so that
the version was quick, simple and completely painless. The baby stayed
turned, and was born vaginally about 2 weeks later. Viola. Do not be
scared.
Chances are the baby will turn, either on its own, or with a version.
Worse case scenario, you will have a c-section. But both
you and your baby will be well, which is what is important.
Kim
My baby was also breech. My doc said to go ahead and try every wive's
tale there is and to definitely do acupuncture (which successfully
induced baby #1). The acupuncture (by Carla Dalton in Berkeley) caused
lots of activity but the baby did not turn.
We also tried the doc doing a version (think I am spelling that
right) which was horribly painful and did not work. I know lots of
women for whom it has, however. When we finally did the C, she was
totally stuck and they had to practically wrestle her out. So basically
nothing would have worked and it was not any failing of the things we
tried. So I would say go ahead and try everything--it is worth a shot.
If the baby is able to turn than one of those methods may work. And also
remember that that baby may turn on its own. Good luck!
Elizabeth
Hi, My daughter is now 3 months old, and when I was 36 weeks we found
out she was breech. I reluctantly made an appointment for a version a
week later and in the mean time tried EVERY other means of turning a
breech baby including all the ones you mentioned. Well... she wasn't
about to budge and I did go in for the version. No, it wasn't fun, but
I have to believe that it was more fun than recovering from a c-section
at least.
Mine was successful and she stayed down, although she was a difficult
labor and delivery because she was face-up. My friend also had a breech
baby and just tried standing on her head in the pool and then coming up
for air quickly. That worked for her so it's obvious that every
pregnancy is different.
Good luck,
CB
I would try ''asking'' the baby to turn mentally/emotionally. If that
didn't work, I'd try moxibustion (something an acupuncturist can do). If
neither of those approaches worked, I would try every other thing in the
book! There are numerous websites with suggestions (just google ''how to
turn a breech baby'').
If nothing works, start looking for a midwife who has experience with
breech deliveries. Many do, and breech vaginal birth can be quite safe.
Suprisingly, obstetricians routinely delivered breech babies vaginally
until the 1970s, when C-sections became more ''convenient.'' Have faith,
statistically, your baby should turn around the closer it gets to being
full term. At this point in pregnancy, about 25% of babies are breech,
while only 3-4% remain breech at full term.
Someone who knows about breech babies
My daughter was breech and I tried it all. In the end nothing worked and
I had a planned C-section. I was very disapointed when I found out, but
in the end I had a healthy baby and was happy. I don't know what the
statistics are on success with accumpuncture, ironing board, upside down
pool posture (which was not easy) but I did try it all. Best of luck.
Gina
I also had a footling breech, except we discovered it at 39 weeks. It
sounds like you still have time for that baby to move. First we tried
Acupuncture, the chinese doctor did moxabustion on my pinky toes. It
felt like the baby was trying to move, but he didn't have room. The dr.
showed my husband how to do it, and we did several more sessions
unsuccessfully. We also tried tilting and handstands in the swimming
pool. Unfortunately, my midwife gave me only two days to try getting
the baby to move on our own before gettting the baby manually turned by
a doctor at Alta Bates. When we got to the hospital, the admitting
nurse asked us if we wanted to stay and be induced if the process did
work. I refused, because I really wanted to go into labor on my own if
we could get the baby to turn. Then the doctor came in and told me that
it doesn't work very often, and it could be traumatic for the baby and
did I want to schedule a c section instead of taking that risk. I felt
like we had to try, and if I had to stay and have a c section then
that's what had to happen. But if there was still a chance to have a
vaginal birth- I wanted it. Well, it worked. It was painful, but not
like childbirth. It caused the baby to drop the next day and I went
into labor immediately. I went on to have a natural childbirth. I'm
glad that I chose to have the external version and didn't schedule a c.
michelle@variablemedia.com
Hi,
I, too, had a breech baby, and she never did end up turning.
(I attempted a breech vaginal delivery at UCSF but ended up with a
c-section). We tried EVERYTHING, from home remedies to alternative
treatments to an eventual external version, but nothing worked. My
advice, though, is to try all that stuff NOW, while your baby is still
small enough that it has room to wiggle and move. We kept being
reassured that most babies move on their own, and by the time the
doctors took it seriously, she was too big to budge. If you decide to
have an external version there is some risk to the procedure, and
there's an outside chance that something will go wrong and you'll have
to have a c-section right then. Therefore, doctors want to wait until
the baby is full-term-ish (I think I had mine at 37 or 38 weeks). But
the flip side (excuse the pun) is that by that time the baby is big and
doesn't have much room to move. My personal theory is that there are
two kinds of breeches: one kind where the baby flips and wiggles all
over the place, which may make it easier for them to turn, and the
second kind, which my daughter was, that stays put in a breech position
and never budges. Who knows why, but my daughter liked being head up,
and that was that. Anyhow, I'm sorry I'm not offering much useful
advice, but I wanted you to know that you're not alone, I swear breech
babies occur more than the official statistics, and I urge you to start
all those turning techniques ASAP, while the baby is small. Good luck!
BreechMama
My baby was breech. I think the doctor know it at my 34/35 week
appointment. At the 35/36 week appt, she did an ultrasound to confirm. I
was then scheduled at 37 weeks to do an external version. I was freaked
out and did some research. I did moxibustion (burning chinese herbs on
the acupressure/acupuncture point for moving baby) and laid with my head
down and hips up. Nothing helped. I found a great journal article on the
internet to give me confidence that the external version will not hurt
my baby. So, I felt better about the procedure. My amazing OB, Ahsan,
came into the room and moved my baby with no problems. It was scary!
However, I know that this does not work for everyone. Trust your ob. The
worst case scenario is that you have a C-section and thankfully we have
great medicine in this area and you and the baby will be healthy. Good
Luck!!
Karen
I was in a similar situation with my daughter. We attempted the external
version which unfortunately did not work. They tried several times and
it was intense. The baby was really stuck up under my rib cage. I tried
acupuncture, moxa, yoga and even the flashlight trick to get the baby to
''follow the light'' down. We wound up having a c-section which was
really actually great.
Recovery was quick. Good luck - try anything and everything, as you
never know what might work for you. And if nothing works, have faith
that the baby is in that particular position for a reason and the
c-section will go just fine!
JenB
My baby was also breech, born last year on July 1st by c- section. I
tried everything you mentioned: acupuncture, moxa, inverted positions
(even with a headset with music playing at the bottom of my belly, I
read that the baby will turn towards the music), handstands and
sumersaults in a pool, and I had two attempts at external versions. He
would not turn. The only thing I did not try was a chiropractor. Since
then I've heard there are some that do special treatments to help a
breech baby turn, so you might look into that. I do know at least two
other women who had external versions that were successful, so don't
rule that out, either. It is a bit uncomfortable, but I didn't think it
was that bad, and was able to breathe through the pain, which only
lasted for a couple of minutes. The thing that makes me upset is that
hospitals won't even attempt to do a vaginal breech birth nowadays due
to liabilities issues. I do know a woman who was able to deliver a
breech baby vaginally at UCSF, and apparently if you get the right OB
there, they will attempt it. But it is a lost art, and most OB students
and residents aren't even taught how to do it. There is an interesting
article about it in a past Mothering Magazine issue (the one that came
out exactly when I was going through this) by Ina May Gaskin (she wrote
Spiritual Midwifery). Well, blessings to you for a safe and healthy
birth, no matter what happens!
Erin
August 2003
I'm 34 weeks pregnant and have just learned my baby's
breech. I'd like to try everything I can to turn it while there's
still time! (I can have an external version at 37 weeks, but I'd
rather try other things first.)
I just looked at the recommendations on the website for
turning a breech and noticed a few people mentioned
chiropractors as being effective, but there were no names or
details given. Has anyone had success with chiropractic
techniques or have a person to recommend? I've never
seen a chiropractor and have no idea what to look for.
Also, any other advice or success stories (acupuncture?
weird upside down exercises?) are very welcome. Thank
you!
Wishing for Upside Down
At 37 weeks, my first baby was breech. My pediatrician had been
watching her for a couple weeks before and told me that she
would probably turn, but at 37 weeks she thought she was too big
to turn. We scheduled an external version for that Monday (38
weeks). Over the weekend, I did the inversion exercises and
tried moxibustion (burning Chinese herbs). I didn't really
believe it would help... but something must have worked because
when I went into the hospital for the version that Monday, the
baby had turned!
(At 34 weeks, you still have plenty of time for your baby to
turn on her own. As a matter of fact, if you do the exercises
too soon, the baby can turn and then turn back while she is
still small enough to have room to move.)
a new believer
My baby was breech and I had a version that worked out
wonderfully because my baby stayed put. Timing is the key
though, so in case you run out of time, or the other ways don't
work, I wanted you to know that a version is not all that bad.
It was painful (to the point of tears) for the time it took to
do the turn and that was about 3 min. I think. I walked out of
the hospital without being sore and with a feeling inside that
was very different from when I went in an hour earlier. My baby
was finally in the right position! good luck.
angela
I would be scared to death of having a chiropractor ''manipulate''
me and possibly causing my placenta to abrupt. And, know that my
second child was breech and then not, breech and then not, and
then ''unbreeched'' himself, permanently, at about 37 weeks.
I would be inclined to follow the advice of a good and
trustworthy obstetrician.
Good luck
Uncomfortable with chiropractics
My cousin had her breech baby turned by her OB and ended up
having a nightmare labor -- he was too big for her pelvis. (I
do not know the exact term for what happened to her but her
pelvis separated & she was in a wheelchair for a month). In
retrospect, the OB thought that *may* have been why he was
breech. Both are well now. Random occurance probably.
Good luck.
When my baby was breech at week 34 my midwife recommended a
treatment called moxibustion, an acupuncture-based traditional
Chinese remedy. A recent study in the Journal of American
Medicine Association found that 75% of breech-positioned fetuses
turned with moxibustion, compared to 50% without. Basicially, it
involves someone holding a burning cigar of mugwort (''moxa''),
very near to a certain point on the side of your pinkie toes.
The heat has a similar effect to acupuncture needles, but much,
much gentler (needles are used at this pressure point to speed
along a difficult labor).
I went to Marti Lee Kennedy, a wonderful acupuncturist who
specializes in women's health issues. She has many other
glowing recommendations on this site and I will add mine to the
chorus. She gave me the first treatment and showed my husband
how to do it so we could do the rest at home. It takes about 45
min per treatment and makes your house smell like a marijuana
farm, but about an hour after the third treatment I felt my
daughter do a somersalt! We were able to have a very smooth
delivery. I wholeheartedly recommend giving Marti a call: 510-
843-5000, at 2615 Ashby Avenue, Berkeley (near Alta Bates).
Tara
Hi,
I had a Frank Breech baby. She was the right side down by 32
weeks and suddendly turned breech. I tried everything. I did
exercises sticking my abdomen up whilst lying on a pillow. I
went to have a moxa stick done on my toes with an
accupuncturist. I had a version at 37 weeks. Nothing worked! If
the baby wants to turn it will on its own, in fact, even during
labour. But if it does not like mine, she will decide the fate
of her birth not you. I do not mean to sound negative, just
realistic. Try everything, and who knows. You may be lucky. But
my word of advice is do not get stressed over it. I went into
panic mode, seeing it was my first baby and I was adamant on
having a natural, drug free vaginal birth. It was not meant to
be. She broke my waters 10 days early, even one week before the
scheduled c-section, and that was the end of that. Out she came
and it went very well. It was not bad at all. I was out and
about that same week, with minor pains on my abdomen, but fine.
So, good luck, and I hope your baby turns. Otherwise, remember
the most important thing is that the baby comes out healthy and
that mommy is fine.
anon
My daughter was breech at 34 weeks. I tried acupuncture. I
also tried putting a cold compress (like a bag of frozen
peas) on the lump at the top that is the baby's head. The
theory is that the baby will move to get away from the cold.
Sorry to say, nothing worked for me. My doctor turned her at
36 weeks - successfully! Then I ended up with a c-section
anyway due to other factors. So, try anything but remember
you are NOT in control of your baby's birth. It's more
important that you and your baby are healthy than that
he/she comes out head first.
patricia
I was in your same position 8 months ago. I also posted to this
list and got a lot of wonderful suggestions and I tried them all
(upside down on the ironing board, leaning forward on a birthing
ball, chiropractor, acupunture, etc.) I also had three attempted
versions at Alta Bates as I was determined to do absolutely
everything I could to get my baby to turn and at least have a
chance at a vaginal delivery. In my case it did not work out (my
baby was a footling breech and also had the cord wrapped around
his neck making it difficult for him to turn), but I do want to
share with you that of all the things I tried, Moxibustion (the
acupunture technique) was the most sucessful. We went to Dr.
Marti Kennedy on Ashby Ave. (recommend to us by my OB Lisa
Keller) and she showed us how to do it at home, which we did for
two weeks. Several times while doing it my baby tried to turn
himself around and got half way before turning back. This was
the same amount they were able to get him turned during the
versions before he couldn't turn anymore. So I would highly
recommend giving moxibustion a try.
Lastly, while I hope your baby turns and you get a chance at the
birth experience you want, I want to add that though I was
dreading and terrified to have a c-section, we made the most of
it and I ended up thinking it was great and that my child birth
experience was the greatest ever and not diminished at all. Once
you see your baby nothing else matters (such as how he came
out). And because it was scheduled and I did not labor, I was
relatively rested after the surgery and could enjoy him more
that first day. Other benefits -- no tearing, no streching, no
urine leakage, etc. And in my case, it was the safest way for
him to be born.
Mom of healthy 7-month-old
Editor Note: 7 other people reported that chiropractors
and/or acupuncturists can turn a breech baby but did not have personal
experience.
Dec 2002
I am 34 weeks pregnant with my first child and my baby has
settled into a head up position which, as far as I can tell, he
has maintained for the last three or four weeks.
I am trying several home techniques to encourage him to turn
(laying with my torso propped above my head, headphones on lower
abdomen, etc.), but if those are unsuccessful by 35 weeks my OB
is recommending I go to an accupunturist for ''moxibustion.'' Does
anyone have any experience with moxibustion for turning a breech
baby and was it successful?
Also, if that does not work, the next step might be for my OB to
try to do an ''external version.'' However, one acquaintance told
me that it was extremely painful, did not work, and she wished
she had not done it and just had the caesarian. Any other
experiences or advice out there? Thanks.
My son was breech at 37 weeks, and I was sent home over the
weekend to see if he turned himself, with the plan being to do
a version on the following Monday if he did not. I tried many
of the ''home remedy'' approaches: lying on my back with my feet
over my head, playing classical music and putting the head
phones near my legs and shining a flashlight in that area as
well. The one I am convinced worked, since I felt a lot of
movement from my son during and after, was sitting in a warm
tub and holding a pack of frozen peas on my stomach in the area
I believed his head to be. Whatever it was, something did the
trick, as I went in for my version and he had already turned!
So best of luck,
Claire
I had a baby that was breech in the final two months of my
pregnancy. I tried all kinds of alternative and conventional
ways to get her to turn -- everything from standing on my head
in a swimming pool, to rubbing a certain pressure point on my
foot, to an external version. I had the version at 36 weeks. For
me it wasn't really painful but the doctor was unable to
dislodge her from the breech position. Had he been more
successful and actually had been able to turn her, I suspect it
would have been a lot more uncomfortable.
I ended up having a c-section as she was still breech when I
went into labor at 39 weeks. My c-section was horribly painful
and really limited my activities in the first two weeks or so
after the operation (I was fully recovered by about 6 weeks). If
I were you, I would try everything you can including a version.
I would rather have had the discomfort of a version than the
pain of a c-section.
Jenn
I had an external version performed succesfully at 37 weeks, and
I would recommend for anyone. It was performed by my OB at SF
Kaiser and she claimed to have a very high success rate. It was
only a little uncomfortable for me, and I believe that is
because I had read about how much it would hurt, so I was
prepared for a really painful procedure. I was given something
to relax me and the baby and I were both monitored the whole
time. She stayed head down and we had a wonderful (vaginal)
birth 2 weeks later. It is in my opinion a procedure that it
definitely worth a try. Best of luck,
Patty
I too had a breech baby and tried everything, EVERYTHING, to
make her turn. The moxibustion made me quite high and relaxed,
but didn't do a thing for my baby. The chiropractor realigned
my pelvis so I was feeling straighter and taller, but still no
movement. Standing on my head in a swimming pool gave me only
nausea. And finally, the last hope was an external version - a
terribly painful, extremely jarring experience, expensive and
completely uncalled for during my 9 months of blissful
pregnancy. I was bruised and feared for my baby's health. After
all that, I went with the most ''natural'' way she wanted to come
out -- I had a Cesarean and my baby turned out healthy,
beautiful and happy. The healing takes about 2 weeks and the
scarring will diminish.
Don't do it
Our daughter who just turned 11 months old was frank
breech. We tried everything - pelvic lifts, moxibustion,
pulsatilla, acupuncture, and headstands in the swimming
pool... unsuccessfully. We had a manual version at 37 and
39 weeks because she reverted after the first version. It
was momentarily painful but luckily she turned quickly and
on the first try both times. My personal feeling is that it's
best to try everything starting with the least invasive and
gradually moving to the more invasive with a c-section being
a last resort. Acupuncture and moxibustion are painless
and potentially effective... what's there to lose? As for a
version vs. a c-section, I would opt for version in a second.
Healing from the surgery of a c-section is no picnic and
certainly takes a lot longer than the 3 - 20 second attempts
at a manual external version!
CA
To Whitney, who has questions about turning a breech
presentation baby: From what I've read, ''moxabustion'' involves
burning herbs on the skin of the abdomen. I have no idea why
that would necessarily be a solution to your problem and it
sounds risky in general. Having had two breech presentation
babies, I can speak to the issue of external versions. They ARE
EXTREMELY PAINFUL, and yes, often don't work. Mine didn't. C-
sections are far less painful than having someone physically try
to force a baby to turn by pushing and shoving on your abdomen.
In my case, I have a minor uterine anomaly called a ''horn'' which
narrows the area at the top of the uterus and basically wedged
the baby's head into place (this was discovered when the C-
section was performed. Your problem may or may not be similar,
but having a C-section isn't the end of the world. Good luck.
Anonymous
My now 2-year-old daughter was breech and I did have a
successful external version. Before the procedure, I had
heard how painful it could be and was very fearful. Plus, the
whole hospital experience was pretty anxiety-inducing (I
don't know if it's true in every case, but I had to check in to
the hospital in case the attempt caused fetal distress or
preterm labor).
In the end, however, I felt *nothing* apart from the pressure
of my ob's hands and my baby turned head down very
quickly. I think the whole thing lasted less than five minutes.
It is disconcerting to watch the ob actually manipulate the
baby in your belly but I was given a mild sedative (my
husband was more freaked out than I was!). My baby was
pretty big, too (over 9 lbs at birth) so I don't think size was a
factor. I went on to have a quick and relatively easy birth a
few weeks later.
Anyway, I think the experience varies greatly from person to
person. Hope this helps.
Holly H
I had a successful external version with my second son, but in
rather extraordinary circumstances (see details below if you
want the whole story since once I got writing I enjoyed it!)
Yes, the version procedure was painful, but it worked! and the
pain was similar to normal labor just that the MD was moving
things around instead of the uterine muscles! (I was very
anxious about the pain before my first baby but had gotten
through it even with a very long 4 hour pushing period to pop
out a 9.5 pounder and so I was not as fearful on the second
baby). The version allowed me to have natural childbirth which
was really important to me so I would recommend it if you were
psyching yourself up for natural child birth anyway and if you
have a MD/midwife you trust.
The whole story: I was planning a home birth with very
experienced midwives and I also had parallel care throughout my
pregnancy with a back up OB-/GYN who knows my midwives. The baby
was head up and head down and transverse at various times in the
weeks prior to due date - he was smaller than my first boy and
apparently had plenty of room to move around. My last OB/GYN
exam before the due date the baby was head down again (a
Tuesday) and we were optimistic. However, the morning my water
broke (early that Friday am)I could tell the baby had moved into
a transverse position again (my midwives had taught me to
recognize the body parts and figure out where the baby was). I
called the midwives who did not quite trust my judgement, but
they came to the house anyway and did confirm the baby had moved
sideways. The midwives spoke to the MD by phone and he was
willing to try the version even though my water had broken which
leaves less room for the baby and more friction in the uterus.
Once at the hospital we signed all the cesearean permissions and
had to do the procedure in the operating room, which for me was
anxiety producing since I really wanted to do the home birth or
at least a non-intervention natural child birth. (I believe
that a version has the risk of causing the baby distress so they
might have to do an emerg. c-section even if you are not yet due
and I was already in labor anyway.)
The MD requested a wide bed for the procedure so I could move
around better (i.e. not the operating room-type narrow gurneys
but a recovery room bed.) He used ultrasound and a pelvic exam
to see where the baby was, then pushed the outside of my abdomen
to push the baby's head down. The procedure was very quick but
yes, painful. Deep breathing and squeezing my husband's hand
got me through it. A few tears after to release the tension.
My midwife was also with me throughout which helped a great deal
in my understanding the procedure, the options and the risks. I
was lucky she was present because she has such a good working
relationship with the MD - many hospitals are very hostile to
the homebirth midwives and had my MD been unavailable I would
have ended up with the emergency MD, no version and a C-section
I'm sure.
To top off the story - after the version the midwife trick to
keep the baby from turning again was to tuck a rolled up towel
under the girdle the hospital gives you for the heart monitor so
the baby was held head down against one side of my uterus and
could not move back up. We then decided to go home! and proceed
with the home birth. The hospital was against my leaving and
delayed releasing me for an hour and made me sign various
papers. Although my water had broken the contractions were not
coming very often and the MD did not object because he knew I
had had a successful natural birth the first time (though at
with a home-to-hospital transport at 10 centimeters due to
meconium in the water!).
We drove home with me huffing and puffing through the pains and
two hours later had a 7 pound baby at home in the living room!
The baby's umbilical cord had a true knot in it so the
conclusion was yes, he had a lot of room to move around in there
for he had twisted himself at some point in the pregnancy right
through the cord to form the knot!
Apparently we were the talk of the town among midwives who had
never heard of a hospital-to-home transport! (We also called
the hospital to let the nurses know that all went well since
their concern about us leaving was well-intentioned though I did
not appreciate the pressure tactics.)
Anyway, regardless of the home birth aspects it was not your
typical version since most MD's would probably not do the
procedure after the water is broken. Although our experience
was very unusual I feel our success was testimony to being clear
about your goals, being calm through fear and pain, trusting
your health care professionals and knowing your rights.
Thanks for reading and Good luck with whatever you choose!
Margi
Both of my babies were breech near the end of each pregnancy.
With the first the manual version performed by my OB was
unsuccessful, not to mention painful enough to leave bruises
across the top of my belly. We scheduled a c-section and all went
well. Throughout my second pregnancy my healthcare provider ( a
different person ) looked for the baby's position from 28 weeks
and scheduled a version with a doctor who she knew to have a
particularly good success rate. It seems as though the skill of
the doc made the difference as the second baby turned easily and
much less painfully, and stayed down to be delivered v-bac. The
successful turn was at Summit, but I don't remember the doc's
name. I would call and ask the nurses in that department and then
attempt to schedule with the most successful one.
Another breech Mama
There's a great osteopath on Solano Avenue named Catherine
Henderson who, with the most gentle of touch, caused my breech
baby to turn when attempts with other methods had failed.
(Catherine is also very skilled with working with babies who
have had a difficult birth and many other problems).
Alexandra
Nov 2001
I am pregnant with my first baby. We are 34 weeks pregnant
(in the 35th week), and Baby is in the breech position. I have tried
pretty much every technique to help Baby turn. While I am aware that
Baby may still turn on his/her own, I am also preparing for a birth
where Baby may remain in this position. Until now I've been planning
a home birth, but I now realize we may need to birth in a hospital. I would
like recommendations for OBs anywhere in the Bay Area who are
experienced at doing external versions and vaginal breech births.
I realize that because of liability concerns most OBs are no longer
trained in attending vaginal breech births, and that most doctors would
prefer to do a c-section with a first time mom's birth because of
an"untested pelvis". I KNOW, however, that there are some doctors out
there who might work with me to try a vaginal birth (if Baby is in the
frank position). Please share any recommendations you have!
Thanks! Catherine
My baby was breech up until about the point yours is, and then he flipped
for good. I was very concerned, and I had been looking into the possibility
of a vaginal breech birth. Even though at that point I really wanted a
"natural birth" (I was exercising, doing prenatal yoga, doing all the
reading and prepping for a drug-free vaginal birth), I decided that if
everything I did didn't work, I'd just go with the cesarean. Part of my
rationale was that because it just isn't done very much any more, whoever I
found to do the delivery wouldn't be as practiced at it as is desirable.
And I was ultimately more concerned about birth injuries to the baby
resulting from a vaginal breech birth than I was about my own recovery from
a cesarean. It helped me to reexamine my desires and priorities with regard
to the birth, and I came to realize that I wasn't as "in control" as I
thought I was, and that a healthy baby was my highest priority. In the end,
this was useful, because I wound up having an emergency cesarean (for other
reasons). But the birth wasn't a traumatizing experience for me because I
had accepted that possibility and was ready for it. And I have to say,
nearly all of my fears about an abdominal birth were unfounded--it wasn't
bad. And the best thing is, my baby is okay. I know this may not be a
popular statement, but cesarean births (judiciously prescribed) aren't as
bad as you might think. The last thing I can recommend... have you thought
of trying acupuncture? I saw Marti Lee Kennedy during my pregnancy, and she
was wonderful. Even if the acupuncture doesn't help, you may find it
relaxing and helpful for other pregnancy concerns.
Kristine
Laura Stachel delivered my twins, the second one was breech. Aaron Chinn in her practice is one of the few OB's left in town who has been trained to do breech deliveries, and he delivered my breech twin. I understand that most ob-gyn's do not have he training to do breech deliveries and he was the most experienced MD in Berkeley at that time (1995). There are some good videos out there of breech deliveries, so you'll know what to expect.
To the woman whose baby is in breech position - have you gone to an
acupuncturist for the very specific treatment for turning babies? It's an
herb that is burned and placed at particular points - sounds kooky but is
remarkably effective (two of my friends' babies turned within a week of the
treatment; one the next day) - I wish I could remember the name of it, but
acupuncturists know it. Hope that is helpful.
Janeleslie
UCSF is the place. Try calling the FOG group.
(That's Faculty OB/Gyn group). They can talk with
you about doing a version. Also, call the main hosp # and
ask which medical group Paer Sander, MD is in,
if he is still at UCSF. I may be a little off on his name but
that's close. I know several women who have had breech
births there and have been satisfied with the hospital
experience, while they too had been planning home births.
Good luck!
Shari
You may want to contact Dr. Kent Farney at 510 522
3700 who is affiliated with Alameda Hospital and Marin
General. I had also planned on a homebirth but ending
up delivering in hospital. Dr. Farney was my OB/GYN,
I attended him in addition to my midwives. I am not
sure of his experience with breech births but he is
worth checking out. I also know of someone who had a
home breech birth which was also premature but
everything was fine. My experience delivering at
Alameda Hospital with Dr. Farney was great, I can't
say enough good things about the staff and hospital.
Mary
I don't know a local OB, but would like to offer some
encouragement - if the baby doesn't turn, and chooses
to be born breech, staying upright for the delivery is
very important - it helps to speed up the birth;
gravity helps the contractions to be fully effective;
and the pelvis can open freely in this position...also
contractions are less painful when you're in an
upright position.
these books may help:
"Active Birth" by Janet Balaskas
"Spiritual Midwifery" by Ina May Gaskin
and any writings by Michel Odent.
If I were to have another child, here in the states, I
would consider going over to Ina May Gaskin's
community (The Farm), where you can stay for a few
weeks over the birth. However, hopefully there is
someone sympathetic locally...
One of my children (born in England) weighed 10lbs
13oz, and with a birth in a standing position, all
went fine. Here in the US I have been devastated to
hear of so many C-sections (and routine
epidurals...which perhaps contribute to that).
Wishing you good luck and I hope you find birth
assistants who will allow you the freedom to give
birth as you want to...
Janice
My 21/2 year old son was breech. The doctor
who helped us was named Lisa Keller and she was amazing. She
first sent us to an accupuncturist (I was pleasantly surprised
she suggested this) but since we were so near our due date, we didn't
have enough time... he got half way around! In any case, we felt
that if it requried a fetal heart monitor during the external version,
perhaps it was too stressful fo the baby and we would pass this option
on. Dr. Keller was completely open to our views and said she would do
the version at a fraction of the pressure normally done and the minute
I said "ouch", she would stop. SHe was successful! It was not a
comfortable experience but it was fast and simple.. She was great.
Slykahn
I was in the same position as you - breech until the 39th week, tried
everything to turn my baby - and my OB and I had an agreement that, were she
the one to attend my birth, she would attempt a vaginal delivery. She did,
however, have me do pelvis catscan (ct pelvimetry) first to make sure my
pelvis was "big enough" and, as it turned out, it wasn't. In any case, she
succeeded on the second try to turn my baby with an external version. Her
name is Lisa Keller and she is fantastic, in my opinion, and I have no
hesitation in recommending her. The number at her office is 843-7722, but I
know she is very popular and thus very busy so I don't know if you would be
able to see her. I ended up having a cesarean anyway and would also
recommend preparing yourself for that possibility because I believe that my
baby had her own reason for needing to come out that way no matter what I
did, and believe me, I did everything. Good luck and call or write back if
you would like to talk further ( Melissa at 336-2562).
M.McM
I highly recommend Dr. Patty Robertson at UCSF Medical Center. Her
specialty is high risk pregnancies. If I could deliver twins vaginally,
where one was a full breech extraction, so can you. My doula was present
with me throughout the birth, and I could not have asked for a safer, more
caring environment.
I don't want to seem like the harbinger of doom or pessimistic, but when my
daughter was born last September, my midwife had a client due around the
same time and who had a baby in a breech presentation that just would not
turn. My understanding is that most Bay Area hospitals are not willing to
do a vaginal breech, for the same reasons that they are not too keen on
vbacs. (I delivered my baby, naturally, as a vbac)
I skimmed briefly over the responses and noticed that some of them came
from women with five year old and two year olds- a lot has changed form
then till now, many practices err on the conservative side, mainly due to
malpractice insurance. I think UCSF is one of the only hospitals that will
accept vaginal breeches. Others might allow a trial of labor, I am not sure
here and might be talking out of my hat.
I just called my midwife who told me that Patricia Robertson is the doctor
to call at UCSF, meaning that she is someone who might agree to one.
Apparently a study just came out a few weeks ago stating that while
delivering breech presentations by cesarean section might have not so great
on outcome for the mother, breech babies delivered vaginally had more
problems. As compared to what, I don't know, and as far as what problems
the mother experiences I don't know specifically either- emotionally,
physical healing time are probably some factors. Anyway, the study did
state that those that were the most experienced in delivering breeches
vaginally had the most success, so those birth centers in Europe that
deliver breeches frequently had fewer problems. So the study has done to
vaginal breech deliveries what a study on pitocin and vabacs did for vbacs-
make more conventional doctors shy away from the procedure and follow the
path of the familiar and invasive.
So as far as a vaginal birth in a hospital, my midwife told me that there
are a couple of factors dictating that outcome- firstly you will have to
have a CT to measure your pelvis size; then an ultrasound to measure the
size of the baby. The baby would have to have a flexed head and weigh less
than eight pounds and you would have to be willing to have an epidural
during labor. There is no compromise with the epidural, it is for if they
have to do manipulations during labor or have to rush off and do a c-section.
Of course the best outcome would be for the baby to turn, things you can do
to try to turn the baby (forgive me if you have heard some or all of these)
a version, shine a bright flashlight down by your pubic bone, place
headphones and play music down by your pelvic bone, find a swimming pool
and walk on your hands, there are homeopathic remedies, and lastly a
chiropractor who can do Webster's Chiropractic technique for baby turning.
If you have any questions please feel free to e-mail me and I can pass
along my midwife's name and number.
Sonya
For the woman seeking information about vaginal breech birth: I recommend
you call Dr. Russell Laros at UCSF Medical Center. I am a doula who had
clients with a breech baby and they felt very well-cared for by Dr. Laros.
Adele
I have been reading with interest the postings regarding
vaginal breech birth. I attempted to do it through Kaiser
2 years ago, without success, and since then Kaiser has
stopped offering it entirely. I'm glad there are still
practitioners out there willing to do it, but I just
thought I would put in my two cents. I was very committed
to natural childbirth and my baby was small - I had a
CT scan beforehand where I was told I was a good candidate
for it. I had had an external version (a very unpleasant
procedure) and it was unsuccessful.
She was my first baby, and I was told labor might be
long - I was unprepared for what happened. I labored
for 3 days and nights with almost no progress - finally
the 3rd night I agreed to a drug cocktail to stop the
contractions and to knock me out so I could get rest.
When I awoke over 16 hours later, I labored hard for
another whole night, and finally got to 3.5 centimeters.
I could not imagine being in transition for another 12
hours or so - I had a cesarean finally and my baby was
fine. I had a lot of trouble with my milk supply at
first, and it the pediatrician suspected it may have
had something to do with my exhaustion.
Recovery was very tough, because I had worn myself down
so much. Anyway, I thought I would share the details
because had I known how long my labor was going to be
I would not have attempted it. I was told it was because
a baby in the breech position does not put enough
pressure on the cervix for it to open quickly. Also,
I was 37 years old at the time - perhaps age had something
to do with it.
I am expecting my second child in a few weeks, and sure
enough, this one is breech as well. If the version does
not work, I will definitely opt for another c-section.
Regarding this subject and a recent message, I just wanna say that
unlike the woman that had a three days labor to deliver her breech
baby, I labored for less than 3 hours! My baby was breech too. I
attempted the external version, and many other alternatives to turn
her, since I really wanted to deliver vaginally and without drugs, but
nothing worked. Instead of scheduling a c-section, I decided to wait
for labor, hoping that my baby could turn during labor. After waiting
for a week after the due date, my doctor recommended a c-section. We
then scheduled the c-section for a Friday, 7:00 AM. Surprisingly, my
labor started at 3:15 in that morning, and I arrived in the hospital at
5:30 AM, completely dilated and effaced. My baby was still breech and
they had to give me drugs to slow down the contractions, since I
started pushing but hadnīt had a CT scan and they didnīt want to risk a
vaginal birth. I ended up having an emergency c-section, and my baby
was born at 6:15 AM. So, giving my experience, I have to disagree with
the information that says that a baby in the breech position does not
put enough pressure on the cervix for it to open quickly. Oh yes, Sarah
is my first baby. So, labor isnīt always necessarily long for first
moms too... I would like to finish by saying that although I had to
deliver through a c-section, I was not disappointed with my birth
experience, mainly because I had the opportunity to experience labor. I
would definitely wait again! Good luck!
Leonora
May 2001
Hi
Does anyone have information, advice or experiences to
share re turning a footling breech baby, either by an
external version, or other methods?
Thanks.
I had an external version performed to turn my baby, who was also breech
(though I don't know if she was a footling breech). The version was
unsuccessful, though I am glad I tried it. I believe the average success
rate is about 50%, although it gets lower as you get closer to your due date (I
don't remember the magic number -- I seem to remember it was at about 37
or 38 weeks that you see a dramatic decrease in the success rate). Also, if the
baby has "dropped" into the pelvis, it is less likely to work (obviously).
Basically, your doctor and another will massage the heck out of your
stomach. The nurse who prepped me for it said, "now, some women find this
uncomfortable." That was the understatement of the year. But it was
certainly bearable. If you decide to do it, have someone there whose hand
you can squeeze to help relieve the pain. I also used the focal point and
breathing exercises I had learned in childbirth classes, which also seemed to
help. You should also be aware that you'll be very, very sore for a few days
afterwards. I think I must have had some tremendous internal bruising. I
felt like I had met a couple of thugs in a dark alley. It was excrutiating every
time the baby kicked for the next two or three days. But again, I felt that it
was worth a try. Good luck!
Sarah
I have some experience in this area. Both of my babies turned breech.
The second baby turned back on his own, but my first child had to be
turned externally. My babies were not 'footling' breech, they were both
'transverse sly' (which means they are spine down), but the experience of
turning a baby externally is the same either way.
I had never heard of a baby being turned externally since this was my
first pregnancy, so at the time, I knew nothing about it. I did ask the
doctor if it would hurt. And her answer was, "Well, not as bad as us
cutting you open to get the baby out." To which my answer was, "Go for
it!"
In any case, there were three adults (a doctor, a nurse and a midwife)
turning the baby while they watched the ultrasound monitor to make sure
she didn't get the cord wrapped around her neck, etc. It was painful for
a few minutes, but it was over very soon. I'm glad I did it because she
stayed turned and I was able to deliver her vaginally a few days later.
Then, 11 1/2 months later when I was in labor with my son, the same thing
happened and I was ready to have them turn him again, when he
miraculously turned back around on his own when they stopped the pitocin.
The reason I mention the second time is for this reason: Even though it
was painful, I decided to go ahead and have him turned because even
though I knew how much it was going to hurt, it was worth it to me to go
through 5 - 10 minutes of pain versus being forced to have a C-Section.
All that to say, it hurts quite a bit for a few short minutes, but it may
allow you to deliver vaginally if the baby decides to stay put after
being moved. I hope this helps. Feel free to email me if you have any
more questions.
April
I am willing to discuss my experiences (privately) with external version (I
tried it twice) and alternative methods for turning a breech baby. Mine would
not turn but I would do it all again...
Sandra
We discovered that our baby was a footling breech around 37 weeks. My dr.
made an appointment for the external version and I immediately called my
accupuncturist. I went in for treatment 2 times before the version
appointment. The day of the appointment I went in and she had turned.
The next day, the ultrasound showed she'd turned breech again. So I did
more accupuncture and lo and behold, at the next version appointment she
was head down, where she stayed until birth. The Alta Bates nurses all
agreed that it was the accupuncture (I'd even stood on my hands in the
YMCA pool, not a pretty sight to say the least) that made her turn and I'd
have to agree. No needles used, rather my practitioner (and later my hubby)
burned moxie sticks near certain points on my body (little toe, hands and
lower legs). Doesn't hurt and it worked! I'd be happy to recommend my
accupuncturist if you need a name.
Good luck
Lucinda
-
Ten years ago my nurse practitioner was unhappy with the feel of my 8
month pregnancy; I was sent for an immediate ultrasound. The baby was
footling breech and (as it was apparently easy to see) a girl.
I had external version by a well-respected, experienced OB-Gyn (Kanwit). It
was extremely uncomfortable and did not work. The baby would only turn
part way and then would shift back when pressure was released. I was pretty
callously informed I would have to have a C-section.
I did not spend any further time looking into version, but I did some research
on footling breeches. Their delivery outcomes were actually pretty normal
when the condition was recognized in advance and with
an experienced practitioner. However, no hospital in the Bay Area (I tried as
far as Stanford) would let me deliver; from this I concluded the odds of
finding a doctor who had actually delivered a footling
breech were pretty damn small.
The C-section was terrifying but completely uneventful. I made Kanwit
verify she was still breech before I would let them give me the spinal (I am
terrified of needles.) The down foot was apparently very easy
to feel in a pelvic!
My beautiful daughter had a full head of black hair, lungs like a stevedore
---and an umbilical cord wrapped three times around her neck. Trying a
normal delivery would have been a disaster. Per Kanwit,
the cord wrapped around her neck was probably what kept her from turning.
Although I only had the one section, I have to say that compared to friends
who had them after going into labor, recovery was much better. You're
prepared (if not ready), not exhausted, your systems start
functioning again more quickly so they let you do neat things like eat and
get out of bed. Faced with similar circumstances I think I would prefer to just
have the C-section and not bother with version. HOWEVER, ultrasound
technology has gotten so much better they may be able to visualize the cord
now, which would have removed this risk factor; if they can, I might be
willing to try external version. I would not
try any method without monitoring, as you want to avoid going into labor as
long as possible.
Chris
PS She's dishwater blonde now but the lungs remain!
I don't know what you mean exactly by footling breech, but my baby was still
breech at 37 weeks. I had started with Brian Barlay Acupuncturist (510 540
0544, 1720 Bancroft Way) at 35 weeks with a treatment that had a high
success in China. He's had some success with it. It didn't work with me, nor
did the special tea he prepared. I ended up at Alta Bates where the baby was
turned. It was over in a few minutes, the preparations took longer than the
actual turning. It wasn't painful for me. The baby stayed head down (I went
to a step class right after and kept walking the rest of the day).
Anneke
1999
I have heard that moxibustion and acupuncture are useful
for turning a breech baby. How exactly does one do
moxibustion or where can I read about it? Any recommended
acupuncturists with experience turning a breech baby?
And what is the best time during pregnancy to attempt
moxibustion and/or acupuncture? I am now almost 33 weeks
pregnant and my midwife has encouraged me to try to turn
the baby (though she had only some excercises to try which
I've started). Thank you!
I am 37 weeks pregnant, and just found out that my second baby is in a
complete breech position. My first baby was breech, and although I
tried several different methods to turn him (including an external
version attempt), I ended up having a planned c-section. He was over
11 pounds, so there was evidently not enough room for him to change
position.
This baby is much smaller, they think, so I am more hopeful that I can
get the baby to turn. Does anyone know of any techniques that might
be helpful? I know about moxibustion, lying upside-down, and shining
a light near the pubic bone, as well as external version at the
hospital, but I am hoping someone knows something (or someone) that
might help. Thanks!
Moxibustion (http//www.onhealth.com/alternative/briefs/item,33397.asp )
and acupuncture are widely accepted methods of turning a breech baby.
I began acupuncture treatment by Laurel Brody LAc (El Cerrito -
524-5995, she's great and supportive!) in my 30th week and treated
myself with moxibustion (provided by Laurel) at the request of my
OB. The moxibustion is placed on the outside of the little toe and
lit on one end. You can feel the heat, which is sometimes intense,
and the smoke has a tendency to induce headaches. I suggest doing
the treatments in an open space, preferably outside.
There are numerous other exercises and methods used as an alternative
to the ECV. Links to these options can be reviewed at
http//pregnancy.about.com/health/pregnancy/msubbreech.htm
In my research regarding breech presentation, I found the most
widely reported, effective method of turning the baby was found
through chiropractic treatment. I cannot personally attest to this,
but it may be worth looking in to.
Although the treatments were not effective in turning our son, if
you are willing to wait it out, the baby will often turn once
contractions begin. Your midwife will undoubtedly be able to
provide the best recommendations for your situation. If this is
not a first child, most OBs/midwives will consider breech delivery.
Some will attempt this with a first child, but not many.
Best of luck!
J. H.
I read somewhere that swimming helps turn a breech baby. Can't
hurt, in any event. Good luck!
Julie
I went to a GREAT acupuncturist for pre-term labor when I was
pregnant. Her name is Laurel Brody and she practices in El Cerrito
and Sabastapol. I think she is only in El Cerrito 2 days a week now.
The majority of her patients are women and most are pregnant women.
She worked as a dula before she became an acupuncturist. I would
very highly recommend her. I don't have her number on hand but she
is listed. Good Luck!
Royce
I also know that chiropractic is effective at turning a breech
baby. You should go as soon as you can and it can take a couple
of weeks for the baby to turn. You will probably have to go at
least 3 times each week. Moshe
My husband, Brian Barlay, is an acupuncturist and he has
used moxibustion to turn breech babies around. His office
is in Berkeley and his phone number is 510.540.0544. I'm
sure he would be happy to answer any questions you have.
Good Luck!
Leah
I'm not sure what moxibustion is, but maybe my experience
will my breech baby will help (?). Our doula recommended
that I do some exercises which were awkward with my big
belly, and only caused by back to hurt more. We had the
version (getting baby manually turned around) during my
34th week, and we were blessed that she stayed put. However,
I stopped going to prenatal yoga (we did a lot of dipping
moves there), and I didn't do anything too athletic for
fear she'd pop back around.
My doctor got up on the hospital bed with me, and with one
fist on the top of my belly, and the other on the bottom,
turned our baby around within a few minutes (she used an
ultrasound screen to see where the umbilical cord was).
As far as when is the best time to turn a baby, she said
that the baby was small enough at that time in the pregnancy
to move her (bigger babies don't always turn because there
is less room, and boys are not always successful because
they are about 1 pound heavier). Also, she said that
there was ample amniotic fluid to do the turn. If your
other methods don't work, you may want to also consider a
version. It was so worth the try, and it was only painful
for a few minutes. I wish you all the luck for a baby that
turns around, whichever method you use.
Angela
I have a sister-in-law who is studying to be a chiropractor. I remember
having a conversation with her a while ago where she told me about a new
technique (or maybe it was a study of a technique already in use) where the
chiropractor could do some sort of manipulation that would cause the baby to
turn. I don't know anything else about it. I don't even know if it is
something that I would consider doing myself. BUT if you are interested you
could probably call around to find a chiropractor who has experience working
with pregnant women to find out about it.
In addition to the methods you mentioned, I also tried lying
upside down with headphones on the lower part of my abdomen(the theory is
that the baby will turn around to hear the music.) But then, I too had a
cesarean.
Call Dr. Lisa Keller at 843-7722. She turned my baby at 42 weeks and 8+ lbs via an
external version. She has the best hands in the business!
I was carrying a baby in an "unstable transverse lie" and they scheduled a
version, but my family practice doctor suggested I just try acupuncture
first. I am pretty agnostic about alternative medicines generally, but
for what its worth, I had the acupuncture on friday, then went in for the
OB version consult on Monday, and at the ultrasound in his office the OB
told me the baby had turned on her own. The acupuncturist was Peter van
Arsdale, in Berkeley. Good luck, Allison
1998
Hi
Does anyone have information, advice or experiences to
share re turning a footling breech baby, either by an
external version, or other methods?
Thanks.
Lindy
I had an external version performed to turn my baby, who was also breech
(though I don't know if she was a footling breech). The version was
unsuccessful, though I am glad I tried it. I believe the average success
rate is about 50%, although it gets lower as you get closer to your due date (I
don't remember the magic number -- I seem to remember it was at about 37
or 38 weeks that you see a dramatic decrease in the success rate). Also, if the
baby has "dropped" into the pelvis, it is less likely to work (obviously).
Basically, your doctor and another will massage the heck out of your
stomach. The nurse who prepped me for it said, "now, some women find this
uncomfortable." That was the understatement of the year. But it was
certainly bearable. If you decide to do it, have someone there whose hand
you can squeeze to help relieve the pain. I also used the focal point and
breathing exercises I had learned in childbirth classes, which also seemed to
help. You should also be aware that you'll be very, very sore for a few days
afterwards. I think I must have had some tremendous internal bruising. I
felt like I had met a couple of thugs in a dark alley. It was excrutiating every
time the baby kicked for the next two or three days. But again, I felt that it
was worth a try. Good luck!
Sarah
I have some experience in this area. Both of my babies turned breech.
The second baby turned back on his own, but my first child had to be
turned externally. My babies were not 'footling' breech, they were both
'transverse sly' (which means they are spine down), but the experience of
turning a baby externally is the same either way.
I had never heard of a baby being turned externally since this was my
first pregnancy, so at the time, I knew nothing about it. I did ask the
doctor if it would hurt. And her answer was, "Well, not as bad as us
cutting you open to get the baby out." To which my answer was, "Go for
it!"
In any case, there were three adults (a doctor, a nurse and a midwife)
turning the baby while they watched the ultrasound monitor to make sure
she didn't get the cord wrapped around her neck, etc. It was painful for
a few minutes, but it was over very soon. I'm glad I did it because she
stayed turned and I was able to deliver her vaginally a few days later.
Then, 11 1/2 months later when I was in labor with my son, the same thing
happened and I was ready to have them turn him again, when he
miraculously turned back around on his own when they stopped the pitocin.
The reason I mention the second time is for this reason: Even though it
was painful, I decided to go ahead and have him turned because even
though I knew how much it was going to hurt, it was worth it to me to go
through 5 - 10 minutes of pain versus being forced to have a C-Section.
All that to say, it hurts quite a bit for a few short minutes, but it may
allow you to deliver vaginally if the baby decides to stay put after
being moved. I hope this helps.
April
I am willing to discuss my experiences (privately) with external version (I
tried it twice) and alternative methods for turning a breech baby. Mine would
not turn but I would do it all again...
Sandra
We discovered that our baby was a footling breech around 37 weeks. My dr.
made an appointment for the external version and I immediately called my
accupuncturist. I went in for treatment 2 times before the version
appointment. The day of the appointment I went in and she had turned.
The next day, the ultrasound showed she'd turned breech again. So I did
more accupuncture and lo and behold, at the next version appointment she
was head down, where she stayed until birth. The Alta Bates nurses all
agreed that it was the accupuncture (I'd even stood on my hands in the
YMCA pool, not a pretty sight to say the least) that made her turn and I'd
have to agree. No needles used, rather my practitioner (and later my hubby)
burned moxie sticks near certain points on my body (little toe, hands and
lower legs). Doesn't hurt and it worked! I'd be happy to recommend my
accupuncturist if you need a name.
Good luck
Lucinda
Ten years ago my nurse practitioner was unhappy with the feel of my 8
month pregnancy; I was sent for an immediate ultrasound. The baby was
footling breech and (as it was apparently easy to see) a girl.
I had external version by a well-respected, experienced OB-Gyn (Kanwit). It
was extremely uncomfortable and did not work. The baby would only turn
part way and then would shift back when pressure was released. I was pretty
callously informed I would have to have a C-section.
I did not spend any further time looking into version, but I did some research
on footling breeches. Their delivery outcomes were actually pretty normal
when the condition was recognized in advance and with
an experienced practitioner. However, no hospital in the Bay Area (I tried as
far as Stanford) would let me deliver; from this I concluded the odds of
finding a doctor who had actually delivered a footling
breech were pretty damn small.
The C-section was terrifying but completely uneventful. I made Kanwit
verify she was still breech before I would let them give me the spinal (I am
terrified of needles.) The down foot was apparently very easy
to feel in a pelvic!
My beautiful daughter had a full head of black hair, lungs like a stevedore
---and an umbilical cord wrapped three times around her neck. Trying a
normal delivery would have been a disaster. Per Kanwit,
the cord wrapped around her neck was probably what kept her from turning.
Although I only had the one section, I have to say that compared to friends
who had them after going into labor, recovery was much better. You're
prepared (if not ready), not exhausted, your systems start
functioning again more quickly so they let you do neat things like eat and
get out of bed. Faced with similar circumstances I think I would prefer to just
have the C-section and not bother with version. HOWEVER, ultrasound
technology has gotten so much better they may be able to visualize the cord
now, which would have removed this risk factor; if they can, I might be
willing to try external version. I would not
try any method without monitoring, as you want to avoid going into labor as
long as possible.
Chris
PS She's dishwater blonde now but the lungs remain!
I don't know what you mean exactly by footling breech, but my baby was still
breech at 37 weeks. I had started with Brian Barlay Acupuncturist (510 540
0544, 1720 Bancroft Way) at 35 weeks with a treatment that had a high
success in China. He's had some success with it. It didn't work with me, nor
did the special tea he prepared. I ended up at Alta Bates where the baby was
turned. It was over in a few minutes, the preparations took longer than the
actual turning. It wasn't painful for me. The baby stayed head down (I went
to a step class right after and kept walking the rest of the day).
Anneke
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