Invitation for a playdate is always rebuffed

Hello -- I'd appreciate some advice on how to talk to your daughter about a popular girl in her class not really being interested in play dates with her. She gets bummed out because she has asked this girl over a few times, and there's always some excuse and no follow-up. Nothing like ''maybe not today but let's plan another day.'' Yet, this girl is very popular and has regular play dates with a few of the other girls in the school.

So there's obviously a lack of interest on her part, even though they play together in the same general group at school. Of course it breaks my heart to see my daughter feel rejected, but I realize there may just be more of this coming in middle school. And, the other girl's mother hasn't done anything to be responsive to the play date idea either. Any ideas on how to make it seem 'not so important' if this girl doesn't want to come over? How to move beyond it? Thanks, anonymous

Kindergarten playdate - I don't know the parents

A mother of a my Kindergartener's classmate has suggested a playdate over at their home. Is it unreasonable/unusual for me, who have met the mother and her daughter for only one afternoon at a public place, to not be comfortable leaving my child at their home? Any suggestions for going around this without compromising my child's need to build friendships or offending the other parent? Conservative/Cautious Mom

Come to think of it; my cousin's 14 yr old daughter can't go to someone's home either when her mom doesn't know anything about the family. My cousin finds out if there are older brothers who live in the household and has called the parents on occasion to get more information. Never be too cautious about this! JOJ

But, do I need to tell you all of that? I am another Mom doing her best to raise good kids. My house is safe. BUT, if you don't get good vibes off of the kid-kid relationship, then it is perfectly okay to say, um no...if you don't like the Mom, then ditto. But, if both seem okay, then arrange for a date where you can drop off your child and sit for a bit to chat. If you aren't comfortable, then stay the entire time. If things seem comfortable them go on your merry... jan

We invite kids over, but they never accept

During the past few months, my 5 year old son has asked to have playdates with a few friends from school/soccer etc. When I have spoken to these Moms to invite these children to come over to play, they either a) do not call me back or b) give me a noncommital response and then never get back to me. My child has other friends so I'm trying not to take this personally, but it's starting to make me feel bad when he keeps asking why so and so isn't coming over and I really can't give him an answer. I don't want this to effect his self-esteem. Has anyone else experienced this? Or is it just my child? I keep wondering if he's doing something to turn these kids off or if he has the impression that he's friends with these kids, but they're really just not that into him? He can be quite active and is somewhat impulsive, but overall he's a sweet kid. His teacher says that he's friends with everyone in the class and is well-liked so I'm just trying to figure out what's going on. At what age do kids stop having playdates? Anything else I can do for him on the social front? - a concerned mom

Also, i get the feeling my son at least is still kind of getting to know all the new kids around him, so he hasn't specifically asked me to arrange any playdates. however i know he does really like most of the kids he plays with, and would readily go for a playdate if suggested. in fact, there is one kid in his class who enthusiastically asked me if my son could come over, but since i've yet to meet his mom, i didn't follow up. (my son would have been happy to go, but didn't press me-- i think bcs his plate is already full).

Also, I think i just don't feel as motivated to arrange playdates at this age as i did earlier, as my son gets a lot of social time already, and i am both busy and lazy... On the other hand, if another mom called me specifically to propose a playdate with a specific date and time, I would probably be happy to agree. in any case, I think your son's teacher is in a good position to know what's going on, and i would find her view reassuring. unmotivated mom

Keep trying. Be very specific about a day and time. An offer of ''Later today, from 2 to 4, at the park - I'll bring snacks'' or ''On Saturday, right after the game, how bout if Johnny comes over to our house? Junior has been dying to show him his action figures. You can pick him up later'' is more concrete than ''Hey, how bout a playdate soon?''. Hopefully people will be more responsive to that. If they keep blowing you off, then they're simply rude parents and may not necessarily be the type of people you want looking after your kid if a reciprocal playdate is offered. Mom of Two

2) Is my kid too busy? - as it is my daughter has something going on 4 days a week after school, language school on Saturday and Soccer on Sunday (for 10 weeks a year) - she loves these activities and depending on soccer season, time is at a premium.

3) Our daughter plays in the neighborhood, with neighborhood kids in free play and when this is mentioned to other parents, that the kids play outside in the front yard, without an adult outside with them, it makes A LOT of parents uncomfortable.

4) My daughter sometimes feels overwhelmed entertaining someone for 2 hours at a time.

5) My daughter wants to play with kids who play with her independently without adult intervention. My daughter expects that other kids can adapt to the rules at her house as she adapts at their house, if the kids have a great deal of trouble adapting to situations, she's less likely to want playdates.

6) My daughter will have kids over to play or go to kids houses to play if the kid she is playing with has a ''clean up time'' at the end of the playdate that is kid initiated. She does not want to be left with a mess, nor does she leave a mess.

Needless to say, my daughter has a very limited number of playdates. She is invited to them all of the time - usually 3 - 4 per week, many more than she can handle. Parents love having her over as do children. I know that the 5 to 7 friends that she plays with regularly have the same philosophies about playdates as our family

Ask yourself and your son, if these are the types of playdates he wants to have, if not, your son should be able to understand that kids play differently and that expectations are different at different homes. If he is not having a playdate it could be because of time constraints or expectations rather than ''I don't want to spend time with you.''

By the way my daughter is 7 and has had these behaviors for at least 4 years. Daughter is responsible for Playdates

I have 2 daughters -- almost 3 & almost 5. They play together well. The elder is great at involving the younger in the drama of her imagination. While they play, I cook, clean, and dispense BPN advice. Sometimes an entire morning will slip away with only minor intervention from me (popping open lids on the playdough, tending a scraped elbow from stair surfing, or breaking up an argument.)

Playdates are usually geared toward the older. 3 girls rarely works. There are some kids who blend well with my daughters' dynamic or are good at moving between the 2, but usually I find myself consoling the younger because the older and her friend are excluding her or being mean to her. I am good at carving out 'alone time' with each of my girls (not all of their preschool hours overlap...the older stays up later than the younger...the younger gets up much earlier than the older). I don't need playdates to ruin my nice dynamic.

Or, I am DONE trying to convince our guest that house rules are meant to be followed. I am appalled at the # of children who flat out ignore me when I say things like, ''can you please stay off my counters (as I found one trying to reach my crystal on the highest shelf), things meant for you are accessible to you standing on the floor. I found this child on my counters 3 times during the date, even though I heard my daughter explaining the house rules to her as well (My mom puts things for us in all of the lower cabinets. Nothing we need is in the upper cabinets.) Another child dumped out every toy bin and didn't help with the clean-up. My children aren't the neatest during the play time, but we always clean up together at the end of play. When it came time for clean-up, the guest told me it was my job. Huh? I would say that half of the kids that come over are, well, not going to come over again.

There is a pretty set group of kids with whom we play. I swap kids often with another stay-at-home-mom who has girls the same age. The four are wonderful (as wonderful as two 2 3/4-year-olds and two 4 3/4-year-olds can be) together. There are a couple of singles that also come over often that are enjoyed by both of my daughters and me.

That said...the best way to approach me is suggest neutral territory -- do you want to meet at the playground on Saturday? Go to the kids museum on Monday evening? Before your kid comes over, I want to see how our kids play together. If they don't get on in a neutral location, then chances are pretty good that they aren't going to get on at your house or mine. -not avoiding you, but happy with my life

Playdate at the park instead of at home?

Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone has some advice for me. My son is almost four and I would like to set up a playdate with another child from his school. However, I don't have enough room in my place to do that at home. I feel uncomfortable telling the other parent that I'm 'inviting' her son to play with my son at the park. How could I organize a first playdate outside my place? I never met the kid's parents so I don't know the proper etiquette in this case or if that would be weird. Please, help! My son would love to play with this child outside school. Playdate-worried

Dealing with friends who send nannies to playdates

Is there any way to tell a friend that an invitation to the pool, playground, my home, etc is for her and her children rather than for her nanny and her children? For instance, this evening, I called a friend to invite her and her children to join me and a few other friends and children for lunch and a swim at my private club later this week. She told me that she was busy, but that she would go ahead and send her nanny with the children. I specifically called her and chose a day that I knew that she had off from work. I felt that as I extended the invitation to my friend, that she should have declined it rather than accepted it on behalf of the babysitter. This also happens frequently with another friend.

All of our children are under four. Basically, the children are friends because we are friends, not the other way around. Their nannies are nice, but I have nothing in common with them AND I see enough of them randomly at the playgrounds. Is their any polite way to tell these women that if I wanted to spend time with their nannies, I would just ring up the nannies and invite them out? -not having fun with the nanny

So in my opinion mom sending nanny isn't rude. But it does appear that there is a miscommunication -- mom thinks that kids are welcome even if she is not there, you are extending an invitation in which kids are not welcome unless mom is there. You can surely communicate that in a positive way ''Hey, I really would love to see you, I always feel disappointed when you cannot come yourself.'' I know that if someone said that to me I would definitely take the cue. But that said, it is actually difficult for me to imagine saying directly to any of my friends ''do you want to come for a play date with Junior? Hey, but just so you know, if you cannot come in person he is not welcome with his nanny.'' You know it strikes me that ''play date'' signifies to me that the children are the center of attention/reason for getting together. Maybe you could not call the get together a ''play date'', but call it a ''mommy date''? ''We are having a mommy date, because I really want to reconnect with our mommy friends.'' Definitely sends the message that the primary invitee is the mom. If someone invited me on a mommy date, there is no way I would send my son with my nanny! Ask for what you want, and you will likely get it!

That said, as a FT working mom, I find it really hard to arrange weekday playdates for my 13-month-old because many moms in my area don't work. I would LOVE for my nanny to take my son to other moms' houses for playdates. So I don't think it's a bad thing at all to have someone's nanny attend instead of the mom -- the mom should just communicate that to you in advance and set your expectations. anon

Dads in charge of Playdates

My son has been getting asked on many playdates in which the Dad is in charge, it seems to be a growing trend in our neighborhood and oddly, almost all of my kids' friends this year, have this situation. I've always been on the extra cautious side, I don't want to offend them, but frankly I don't leave my kids with even the men I know extremely well. So, I almost always end up hosting the playdates that their family suggests. Then, they want to reciprocate, and with many of them it's always with the man in charge because the mom is working. So my kid doesn't get to go to friends' houses nearly as often as they come here, so he longs to have playdates at friends' houses.

First Question: Any suggestions for insisting on the Mom being in charge without offending anyone?

Also-- to you Moms out there who put us other moms in this situation, why do you do this? Don't you read the same news that we do, although it's unlikely for either to be abusive, women are much less likely, so even if your man is probably good, why do you put us in such a position when we don't know him as well as you do? Can't you put us in a more comfortable position? How about on a day when you ARE home? I'd love to hear from you too-busy-to-have-a-playdate-moms too! - Cautious Mom

No, I can think of no inoffensive way to say ''I believe that your husband may be a pedophile.''

''Also-- to you Moms out there who put us other moms in this situation, why do you do this?''

Well, first, it's not *me* who ''does this,'' it's my family. And we do it because we are both the parents. My husband enjoys spending time with his children, and doesn't do it only because I am ''too busy.'' How lucky your son's friends are to have dads who are involved in their lives.

Seriously, have you considered counseling for this issue? I wonder if there is something in your history that makes this such a hot button for you? Anne

But playdates work on the assumption that you trust the other parents to be reasonably responsible, and that includes assuming that neither parent is going to abuse your child. I must say I was a bit dismayed by your post -- I think it's great to hear that dads are playing a more active role helping to organize their kids social lives, and it really undermines that if they are stigmatized as potential abusers. (BTW I do read the news, and I can't remember ever hearing of a dad abusing the friend of a child who came over on a playdate...) anon

Know this: when I (the mom) supervise a playdate, I try to get my own stuff done -- I do laundry, make dinner and pay bills. My husband, on the other hand, will take them them to the park to play basketball. I'm probably a little bit better at making snacks than he is, but otherwise, in our marriage, the dad is the superior playdate person.

One other thing to think about -- with any luck, your precious son will grow up to be a dad himself, and HE will be supervising some playdates (unless playdates have been entirely replaced by electronic devices at that point). I sure hope no one thinks about your son the way you think about his friends' fathers! Fran

Yes, statistically more abusers are men. And frequently they are family members. Would you refuse to leave your child with his or her own father or grandfather just on this principle, without any particular reason to be concerned? I would never leave my children with any adult, male or female, who I didn't already know and didn't believe I could trust. I vet each situation individually, without assuming that one half of the population can never be trusted and the other half can always be trusted. I can't imagine anyone who knows the research literature on abuse thinks that the implications are never leave your child alone with an adult male and I'm sorry that you are having such stress and anxiety about this.

I know it's hard for anyone, especially parents, to deal with a potential risk of something horrible happening to their child, you have to decide what's a reasonable way to take precautions against a very small risk of something very serious. One approach is to have your children wear a mask every time they leave the house, and avoid direct contact with any other human being, to make sure they don't catch the flu. Another is to vaccinate them, wash hands regularly and avoid the most risky situations, like visiting friends with sick kids. The former approach is perhaps ''safer'' in some sense, but not a way you can really live your life.

As for us Moms who you feel are putting you in this impossible situation, we're Moms just like you who love our kids and who are incredibly grateful to have male partners deeply involved in our childrens' lives. In my view, the more Dads host playdates, the closer we get to the kind of society where we have to worry less about gender-based violence and abuse. I worry you may be sending an implicit message to your children that all adult men can't be trusted.

If there's a personal reason you are so worried about this, either something that has already happened to you or your kids, I hope you know about resources to help. (http://www.ndvh.org/educate/online.html). Mom or Dad equally good in my book

Of course we all read the news and know that a higher percentage of molestors/kiddie porn purveyors, etc. are men but it seems that the best way to protect your child against all sorts of bad conduct is to get to know people, men or women, before allowing your child to have a playdate without you or your husband being present. Personally, I wouldn't feel any more comfortable with having my 4-year old be in the care of a mom I don't know as a dad I don't know. As for why I'm not always involved when we have another child over or out for a playdate, that's because my husband is just as capable as I am of handling the kids and it's an opportunity for some solo time. Not to mention the fact that no one has ever even asked if it will be me or my husband watching the kids. Maybe that's because they know both of us well. If you simply can't leave your children with a man (your note says that you won't leave them with men you know extremely well), how about having your husband have some dual dad playdates with the kids while you do something else?

Finally, it seems like a good thing to let kids see that men can be the caretakers and that they can have fun and be safe and well taken care of without moms being around at all times. Ioana

Statistically, are more men child abusers? Maybe. But Statistically, more women go insane and drown their own children in the bathtub...

Yeah, I know it's pretty harsh, but your post deserves it. If you don't know the entire family, get to know them. Otherwise, if you won't make the effort, stay home with your kid and pout. Proud to love my SAHD

I suspect that if your son's friends' parents get the idea that you don't trust the Dads, it will be the end of playdate invitations for your boy, which would be very sad. So relax and trust a little. Wife of a Good Dad (they mostly are)

2. The spouses of SAHDs don't ''do this to you.'' If you're in a situation that makes you uncomfortable, you must take responsibility for it and fix it yourself. Don't blame the moms. And working moms may not have the time or inclination to host playdates during their limited time off. But surely we'll hear from some moms. Sad SAHD

I have a full time job because I support my family. I'm lucky to have a stay at home dad taking care of my son. To think that there are sexist moms out there who think my husband is less qualified to take care of children than I am just strikes me as completely insane.

No, there is no way to bring this up without offending anybody. Believe it or not, some of us put you in your uncomfortable situation because it never occurred to us that somebody WOULD be uncomfortable with it. Now that I know, I really don't care. If you don't want my husband hosting a play date, host it yourself. working mom

I have found that we have spent enough time with the parents of our child's friends that the mothers are comfortable with the situation. Sometimes a mother comes over to ''drop-off'' for the play-date and stays a long time and talks with my husband - perhaps for social reasons, perhaps to gain trust. I think that there are a couple mothers, who may have felt uneasy, and always had our child over to their house - I did try a few times to invite those children over on the weekends. Over time those friendships didn't last, and now we have regular routines with friends where all options work.

Of course, you need to do what you think is right for your family. If that means always hosting - do it. And take responsibility for that action, you can't change other people's families.

If your child really has a bond with a friend, and you don't feel comfortable - you could try arranging something on the weekend with both families, potentially you could get to know the father and determine if he is someone you can trust. If you will never be able to trust a man with your child, then I'd say you just have to schedule around that - and make sure that you, or another mother is there.

But, as a mother who works, I am certainly not trying to put other mothers in an uncomfortable position. I am doing as you are - what I think is best for my child, and that is to have some playdates with other kids. And for our friends - it works. anon

Is it possible that you had some trauma in your childhood that led you to feel this way? I would possibly reccomend therapy to see if you have any very deep issues that would cause to have this kind of distrust in men.

As for playdates, let your child go to them. If you do decide to turn a father down simply because he is a man it is inevitable that you will deeply hurt and offend him. I would be just as upset if someone was racially prejudiced about letting someone care for their children. You asked ''why do you do this?'' to mothers. Well, why do you expect other people to trust their children with YOU? Why are you so truthworthy of their child's own father? What do you do for a single father? Never let the your son go to their house? They would pick up on that, and be very hurt. Also, you posed the question only to mothers as though you didn't want to hear from men, like they weren't part of the issue. I find this quite disturbing. It is partially because some people react like this to fathers caring for their children that men aren't as involved in nurturing their kids.

I hope the the well-being of your son's manners, happiness, self-esteem about be a man, and social life you will realize that it is always somewhat of a risk to let go of your children to ANYONE, but it is something we do because we need to let them grow up and go on into the world. A Widowed Father and Proud Playdate-Hoster

He is in charge of playdates. The alternative would be...no playdates for my child. I am not trying to put anyone in an uncomfortable position. If you are that uncomfortable with it then the solution is to just continue to decline the invitations. Please don't judge me and my family just because I work full time and my husband cares for our child. Happy my kid spends time with Dad

I can't imagine any way you could bring this up without offending people. Because it is offensive. I suggest you reexamine your attitude of fear towards men, so that you can be cautious is cases where it is justified, and your son can have a social life. anne

Of course I don't ever leave my son with anyone I don't know to be 100% trustworthy, but I see no reason to assume that someone can't be trusted simply because they're male -- nor do I assume someone IS trustworthy simply because she's female (just look at what some nanny-cams have caught female nannies doing to their charges). Yes, statistically speaking a somewhat higher percentage of males in our population exhibit violent behavior, but you're not leaving your child with a population, you're leaving them with an individual, and it is up to you to decide if that INDIVIDUAL is trustworthy.

It is not the other kids' moms who are putting you in an awkward position by ''allowing'' their husbands to host play dates. It is you who are putting yourself into that position by your unreasonable attitude towards 50% of the human race. And what kind of a message does your distrust of men send to your son? I suggest that you work on your issues with men -- for your sake as well as that of your son. Diane

I think it would be terribly offensive if someone asked for my husband not to be present during a playdate. My daughter is now two and obviously isn't having playdates yet but when she is older I will have the same conversation with her that I continue to have with my son. Your son or daughter should be able to talk to you if they ever have a playdate that is uncomfortable in any way. Fathers and mothers have totally different spirits and your child shouldn't be refrained from experiencing both. Trusting in Berkeley

Maybe meeting at a park or other play area would help....neutral territory and public.

Wait till your child is older...you will get sleep-over requests to the dad's house! EEEEKKKK! Annon

How about getting to know the entire family so you feel comfortable (or not) with any member? Moms and Dads do things differently (and I mean in a good way)- it is fun for kids to hang out with Dads, too. stunned

But as for insisting that a mom be present... if your reasons are due to personal circumstances, a therapist should help you with your fears, and provide the words needed to comminicate with other families. If this fear is unfounded and based on prejudice and hysteria, then a request for ''mom only'' would indeed offend and perplex. We all know how complicated life is - mom might be working, traveling, doing errands, chauffering other child, with elderly parents, or having her ''own time'', so I don't expect mom to be present for a playdate at all. And what about all the complaints regarding men not doing their share? Not always true! Dads can and do do a wonderful job of looking after their own children, and others!

So why do moms ''do this''? Why not? They live with and trust and love their husband... If you know, like and trust the mom and the kids... why not the husband? It's all part of the same equation. Another Mom

Until reading your post, it never occurred to me that someone would label him as a potential child abuser simply because he was born male. Yikes. You don't mention whether your son has a dad. If he does, doesn't his dad ever take care of him alone?

Wouldn't you trust your son's dad to care for other children? If the answer to either of those questions is no, it's no wonder you feel the way you do. Can't you get to know the dads as well as you know the moms? I think it's odd to assume another mom is going to treat your child better than a dad, simply based on their gender. Give dads a chance

To ''cautious mom:'' Huh? What? If I weren't so saddened by your perspective, I'd be insulted by your admonishment. I hope that you are able to find some peace behind this issue before it affects your son's view of men. -- Dad-lovin' Mom

1. Re-examine your own assumptions. If I read you correctly you're effectively saying all men (50% of the population) can't be trusted (even in group situations) with kids because they have sexual predator tendancies. This is insulting nonsense.

2. This Dad sounds like he's fully engaged in the childcare, but you apparently want him out of it (or supervised by the mother!?). Isn't equal participation the goal of all parents?

3. The appeal to other mother's to not put you in ''this situation'' is a little self-centered - I'm sure moms occupied with stuff she needs to do.

4. I'm a skeptic about much of the therapy/wellness industry, but maybe you have deeper issues that would benefit from some professional counseling.

5. Get a wider view of life than that offered by the sensational end of the media. Coverage of violent/serious crime is going up because the media is trending to trashier content, this doesn't mean every dad at the playground is a rapist.

Do some reading about the relative risks of everyday life - The Culture of Fear (by Barry Glasner), or False Alarm (by Marc Seigel) both deal with issues of real versus perceived risks, and how our view of the world can be thoroughly distorted by too much reliance on popular media sources. Regular Dad.

If you do not know the dads well enough, then go along on the playdates - get to know the dads. Be up front about it. You want to get to know people who come into contact with your kid! You don't have to say ''you could be apedophile!'' There are plenty of positive reasons to go and get to know a kid's dad. You might even pick up a trick or two. There will be other behaviors that you do not approve of but are not deal-breakers or vice-squad events - now you will know and can explain to your child that it is not a practice in your family. Anyone who resists your coming along is really inviting suspicion, don't you think? (your son included.) Meanwhile, if anyone, you or the other parents, are mentally logging how many play-dates you have hosted without help vs with... stop. You have to pick: equity or comfort. My vote is for comfort, I think yours will be too. You'll find that most of the dads would throw themselves in front of a bus to save their kids or your son. But you need to find that out directly and to your own satisfaction and in each case. (Don't try the bus trick though) By the way, these dads and their spouses would probably also like to get a sense of what you and your partner are like (they have concerns too, you know.) [trimmed to fit, lost some grace, sorry] Cautious (guided by reason) Dad

you have serious issues here, my friend. the only consolation i can offer you (precious little) is that you are not (sad to say) the only such person. i am a dad whose daughter suffers from this. my wonderful 7 year old girl's best friend of more than 3 years (they met and bonded as the two shiest kids in preschool, unwilling to talk to any teacher or other kids until their own relationship was cemented, and they have been inseparable since) has a father with your attitude. he has commanded his wife to adopt his policy so their daughter can never come to our house, despite the fact that we all know each other fairly well. the mom and i carried on a lengthy email correspondance, entirely about our kids, for quite some time until i figured out (with some prompting; i never would have come to understand this on my own) why they would never agree to a play date here. this mom certainly knows me well enough to countermand her husband, but she has neither the spine nor the will.

life is too short for this. you can choose to let fear-mongers (mostly sensationalist media and religious pushers) dictate how you live or you can ''take a chance'' and go instead with your own perceptions. of course it's up to you.

i'm guessing you are some heavy religious type, which my daughter's friend's father certainly is. i am sure that is no small part of this insane, impractical paranoia. burned, incredulous, ultimately very sad dad

I encourage you to not be ruled by your fears, but to trust your intuition. I also advise you to enroll you and your child in a Kidpower workshop (www.kidpower.org) and you will have more confidence in your child dealing with any sort of situation involving personal space and safety. Your child is growing up and will have to make lots of decisions on her own at school or elsewhere without you being around. Give her the gift of confidence and skill, not the legacy of fear. Just check out Megan's Law on the web and look up the real convicted child molesters that are living in your neighborhood right now. That will lead you to Kidpower and maybe extend more trust and credit to all the superb dads out there. Anonymous

So, I was also cautious when my daughter was invited on a playdate with her friend and the dad. I sent my husband on the playdate and both girls and dads had a good time. I don't blame the moms for 'putting me in a situation' - I figure I can either do the playdate or not. You don't need to explain anything to anyone - you have reasonable concerns but voicing them would probably just offend the other parent. Just b/c you are cautious does not mean you're living in fear. When it comes to kids I say 'trust, but verify.' anon

Like you, my sister had ''issues'' surrounding the exposure of her kids to men under any circumstances. In fact, I cannot recall that her kids ever went on playdates.

When my own daughter became old enough (3 y.o.) to attend preschool my sister practically begged me not to send her, or at least wait until she had turned 4 y.o. ''because that's when she'll be old enough to tell the truth in court if she had to testify against someone.''I'm sure you can imagine exactly how she felt when I did enroll my daughter at 3...and not only that, but in a Co-operative Preschool where there would be (gasp!) male parents participating!

If I had listened to my sister's alarmist and panic-stricken advice, my daughter would never gotten to know some of the most incrediable kids, and I their incredable parents--particularly the dads! After reading all the previous responses to your post, I was so happy to see that there are even more dads out there participating and managing playdates than I could hope for! My husband, like many of these guys, takes a willing and active role in the upbringing of our girls, in such an extraordinary and wonderful way (that I neither have the energy or inclination for), that I wish he was a SAHD, and that all my kids' friends could benefit from his creativity and willingness to be a kid himself!

As for my sister, she has two adult (a relative term) kids (and is now divorced from their dad) one of which is a know-it-all, can't tell her anything, female (not unlike her mother), the other is a male loner who had a record by the time he was 18, which could be a result of the lack of positive male role models in his life. So my advice to you? Be careful what you wish for.... all too familiar

To answer your question of why moms aren't available for playdate patrol: some moms work and the dad is the stay at home parent, maybe the mom needs a break, or maybe she's out running errands and wants to do it without kids in tow... There's probably lots of reasons, none of which have sinister underpinnings.

I understand you want to protect your children, but I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Lighten up. Anon

And as far as ''having a cup of tea'' to talk and prove that someone is trustworthy, that is ridiculous. Molesters take their victims through a process called ''grooming'' in which they act normal and suck people in. If it were as easy as having a conversation, far fewer children would be molested. In addition, I have heard of far too many cases in which wives enable these men. So a woman's testimony carries little weight me.

The world is an unsafe place. You have to decide what kind of risks you want to take. What qualities do you want in the person you leave your child with? How do you interview someone? I would be upset, for instance, to make a playdate with a mom, and find out that the dad or a nanny was in charge. I would feel like the mom was withholding information. I would lose trust, and would not want to leave my child with them. I do not leave my child with someone I do not know. Having a cup of tea with someone proves nothing, but it does make me more comfortable.

I suggest that the most important thing for you is to ask questions when setting up the playdate. Who will be in charge? Where will they be? What will they do? Are there guns in the house? Where do you keep your toxic cleaning supplies and drugs? This will give you an idea if the situation meets your expectations.

I think people have been unreasonably harsh in answering this question. I think your worries are perfectly normal and understandable. I hope you are able to find playdates that suit both you and your child. sunsol

1. A KidPower class for you and your son. Abusers (and bullies) seek out kids who are vulnerable. You will learn strategies for talking about being safe. Your son will learn assertiveness, confidence, and understanding about what's ok and not. Maybe you'll feel more confident about putting him in situations where you aren't there to protect him. You will both have a vocabulary so if anything came up, he'd know how to talk about it.

2. Rather than making this the only point, how about presenting yourself as a cautious parent? Make your list of things you like to know. Who else will be there during the playdate? Are there guns in the house? What activities are planned? What kind of TV/Video games do the kids see? Do they have an extra helmet if kids are using a scooter or should you bring yours? Do they plan to go anywhere and do they need a car seat? Then, when it takes you a while to let your son go on a play date alone, no one will be surprised. Offer to bring a book or laptop so the other parent won't feel like they have to entertain you as you sit in the living room during the play date. I'd think it was a little wierd but not a deal breaker.

3. Check Megan's list, unless this would just make you crazier thinking about all the danger in your neighborhood that you hadn't known about.

4. No More Secrets For Me. Only book I'm familiar with, but I'm sure there are others.

I haven't used any of these suggestions myself. Since my son was 4, I've sent him alone into the men's room when there was a line at the women's room. I'm counting on there not being enough privacy or time for a stranger to do anything. (As an aside -- guys, when leaving the men's room and seeing a mom waiting for her son -- maybe not the best moment to tell me he's cute!!)

And yet, I admit that I watch men a little closer than women when they interact with kids -- looking for something not quite right. I guess it makes even laid back me a gender profiler.

Anyone else have any suggestions for this mom? Nutty about other things, I'm sure

You got an earful. I hope you are still listening. I've been trying to think of a way to positively influence you rather than just pile on. So here is a go:

My mother died last year. Before she died she saw her son was a good man and became a loving, caring father and was able to say so. This was a great source of pride and comfort to me. So, for me to learn that your default opinion of men is so low really concerns me for your son. He is learning, deep-down, what you think of men and he knows he is becoming one. You may know the line from a song, ''nobody loves me but my mamma, and she may be jiving too!'' it is funny, unless you really feel that way, in which case it may just be the perfect definition of ''bereft.'' If I thought my mother saw me as a pedophile ''in potentia'' I'd go crazy.

There is more at risk here than your son being abused by bad men. There is the risk that he is being underexposed to the influences of good men.

Our society has devolved down to the nuclear family and lots of us are, in response, trying to expand the number of adults our kids see and understand and trust: to take up the role of the old network of tribe, aunts, uncles, grandparents and the like. This does not just lighten the load for us parents but provides a much more nuanced range of role models from which our kids can learn.

Isn't it profoundly more useful to think and feel in terms of a variety of models and options rather than false dualism of Mom Vs. Dad / Kid Vs. Parent. Our kids are still going to be distressingly like us, so why not work hard to expose them safely to as many other permutations of kind and caring adults as we can gather? At least they will have a realistic sense that your family's way is not the only credible one and they'll have a fighting chance to choose their own ways to respond to the challenges of life. That is what many of those other moms and dads are doing right now: responding not to the training they got as kids but to the needs of their families.

This is going to take some work and bravery on your part. But it will change your life for the better and will very likely save your son some serious self-loathing down the line. A Son

my mom defended him to the end. that said, now with two daughters - one fully grown and one a toddler, i remain afraid of fathers and men in general - including potential teachers, fathers on playdates, etc. that fear always sits there in the back of my mind. HOWEVER, I have surrounded my daughter with the company of excellent beautiful men (including her father) that I have come to know well and their equally supportive and compassionate wives/mates. I have found that my fear has one very troubling symptom that is worse than the fact that I cannot trust most men (without first building an extensive friendship), but ultimately, did not trust myself and my decisions to befriend men. So I guess my advise to you is to begin to understand your fear and to disect it and to build trust for yourself such that you know that when you decide to befriend a man or introduce one into your son's life, you have done everything necessary to make sure your son is safe. that's a hard path but its better than hating every man for the evil deed of one (even it that one was your father) and preventing your son from benefiting from the company of positive men. anon

I was informed repeatedly that the statistically, a child is MUCH more likely to be molested by males known to the family and familiar to the child than by any random strangers. It's specifically advised that a lost child approach a woman with a child for help rather than any male adult.

Certainly, there exist men who were well known and liked by everyone and respected by the community who turned out to be child molesters. I guess personally knowing some people who were molested as children by their fathers (yes, fathers) and grandfathers may color my take on this issue (as well as the overwhelming statistics). So although I can understand how many of those wonderful dads out there were offended by your concern, I totally understand your discomfort with leaving your child *alone* (that is, in the absence of other adults) with a dad whom you may or may not know. Even my own father- a wonderful father- agrees with me that this discomfort you're feeling is understandable. My advice is to go with your instinct. No matter what is politically correct or wrong, I would never advise that a parent place his/her child in a situation which s/he strongly feels could be, may be dangerous. However, if you have the option to stay during the playdates with the dad in charge, you may find it helpful to try it a few times to explore further how you feel about this issue. If you still feel uncomfortable, politely decline. My guess is that there will be enough playdates with moms in charge so that your child won't become totally socially isolated. anon

I think that the fact that you are concerned means at least you are aware of this ''unspoken'' reality. There are many dangers our children face, and this is one of them. We want to protect them from harm, and it is our job to do so. I would be most cautious of ''condusive situations,'' for lack of a better term. Sleep-overs especially. But we can't protect them from everything at all times. I think the best we can do is to build a solid trust with our children, so that they can come to us when they need us. Another Wary Mother

As the child gets older, you repeat these safety lessons at higher and more complex levels, just as you repeat politeness lessons. You can discuss personal space and boundaries to draw, in case it becomes necessary with older brothers, fathers, or relatives-- their own, or their friends'. Remind your children that you will defend them and you want to hear right away if someone hurts or frightens them.

You can teach your children that if an adult-- even a friend's parent-- says that plans have changed and the adult is supposed to take them somewhere, that adult will also have the ''secret password'' (their birthday, for instance). They can role play dropping a backpack and running down the sidewalk. You can tell an older child about kicking a male in the nuts, and kicking out the car light from inside a car trunk and waving to get attention. You can play ''what if'' and ''just in case'' and still say clearly that stranger abductions are extremely rare, but you want them to have good ideas if the worst ever happens-- just like they practice fire drills.

I have role-played with my 6th grade daughter what I consider an appropriate response if a boy at middle or high school (not an adult!) intentionally and offensively touches her butt or her breasts. I want her to slap him in the face as hard as she can. I would rather she got suspended for it than the boy get away with harassing girls anonymous

Paying babysitter when there's a playdate

I couldn't find appropriate comments re how much more to pay babysitter (if more at all?) when a playdate is arranged during their usual time. This doesn't really fall under ''nanny share'' because the other family doesn't need the care. Since I have a 5 year-old, it is actually less work for the babysitter when someone else is over, since they really just want to play with the other child. This issue will come up over the summer, as I want to keep my babysitter 3 days a week, but don't want to be limited as to playdate scheduling. What do other people think? Anon

Times have changed, and now some sitters expect to get more money when they take care of more kids. I think that's fair if the sitter is actually being hired by two different families who would otherwise each have to hire their own sitter. So, to me, the answer to your question depends on whether it is a "true" playdate. Is the friend coming over for an hour or two to play with your child, and if you weren't working, you'd be on duty? (A true playdate) Or is it a school holiday, you have a sitter and your friend doesn't, so your sitter is going to watch both kids all afternoon? (A sitter share) In the former situation, I would not pay the sitter extra; in the latter situation, I would.

When I hire a sitter, I tell her what hourly rate I'm offering, and I also tell her this includes cleaning up the kitchen, running the occasional errand, and supervising playdates. When there's a school holiday and a friend wants to share my sitter, I tell the sitter what we're planning, offer to pay her extra, and ask her if it's OK. So far, they've mostly been delighted (except for the case below). My regular rate for one child is $13 per hour; I've bumped it to $15-18 for two depending on the circumstances.

I did have a problem once with a sitter who wanted to be paid extra for taking my child to his friend's house to play. The friend's mom was at home, but the sitter felt that if she was forced to be at the friend's house rather than doing what she, the sitter, wanted to do, then she deserved extra $$. I disagreed with that position, and let her go. Especially after I discovered that part of what she wanted to do was nap on the couch while my child played alone outdoors, which was not possible to do at his friend's house. Fran

Sharing at Playdates between 4-year-olds

Help I am beside myself over a playdate that went horribly awry between my almost 4 yr old and her 4.5 yr friend. The girls have known each other since they were infants, and whenever we go over to the friend's house, the older child is very good about sharing her things, but when they come over to our house, my daughter gets very possessive and is reluctant to let her friend play with anything. Usually this can get worked out, though it often seems like the friend gets the short end of the stick because my daughter is so insistent at getting her way and she ends up prevailing. An additional problem is that the other mom and I have pretty different parenting styles (I'm more into letting them work things out, but the other mom often wants to intervene, I think partly to protect her daughter from always having to give in).

Last night it started on the wrong foot (e.g. going into the dark room an argument started about who should turn on the light) and then just got worse (''No, you can't use my special party shoes...No, you can't use my sleeping bag...No, I want that wand''). Finally the other mom and I decided that they should go since this wasn't working out, but we gave my daughter one more chance, saying that we would let the other girl pick whatever bowl she wanted for dinner and my daughter was going to have to be gracious. Well you can guess what happened: the other girl picked the princess bowl, and of course that was the one my daughter wanted, my daughter threw a fit, and so the friend and mom left, with the friend now crying that she didn't care what bowl she used she just wanted to stay, and my daughter saying (essentially) oh good now I don't have to share. This was pretty much the opposite of the outcome that we wanted!

I think both me and the other mom are running out of energy for this, and last night I don't think we handled things well. So I'm looking for advice on (1) how to do it better next time (2) what are reasonable expectations for this age for sharing (3) just general insight or experience with similar situations. anonymous

Let your daughter know that if there is something very special to her which she is unwilling to share, she can set it aside before the playdate, and neither one of them will use it or see it during the playdate. It's fine if she needs to protect her boundaries, but impolite to use something in front of somebody else without being willing to share.

If there is an argument about who has the ''right'' to use something now, avoid solving it while things are heated. This is not a particularly teachable moment. You can say something like, ''Clearly this thing is getting in the way of you enjoying your friendship right now. Your friendship is more important than this thing. I'm going to put it away now.'' Remove the object. Repeat as often as necessary.

Try to catch issues before they become heated. (This may mean hovering close by during playdates for a while.) Whenever you see the opportunity, join them to model sharing techniques, i.e. taking turns, flipping a coin, using a timer, playing with the item together, finding the other playmate an acceptable substitute, playing something different, etc.

Keep playdates short enough for you to monitor them and be consistant with your responses.

Remind your child of her successes whenever you have the opportunity.

If you want to keep things very simple and straightforward, you might consider letting your daughter know that the new house rule is that the guest is always right. She lives there all the time, and can play with anything after her friend leaves. This isn't ''fair,'' however it is polite. Use your own judgement there - this is appropriate for some children and families, not for others.

Good luck. It can be done. I taught preschool for 7 years before having my own children, and can tell you that it is possible to make a difference with attentive consistancy. Jennifer

I'd just avoid having that friend over for awhile. Meet at neutral places to continue the friendship ... don't keep forcing a painful situation on all 4 of you. I expect the other mom will agree. Sara

We do play with one other four year old and I'm always amazed that the mom seems to actually promote selfishness in her daughter. I frequently hear things like ''you don't have to share'' or ''you have told her you don't want to share, so walk away''. That can be anything from Goldfish to toys. I would never let my child get away with such behavior, much less support it. If you don't want your situation to get more out-of- hand, maybe think about things like punishing bad behavior (time outs, no TV, no dessert, no books, whatever is important to her) and rewarding good ones (''you can have this lollipop if you share/behave on your playdate''). Good luck!

We are finally getting to the point of stoping playdates with friends who are consistently not ''playing nice'', be it pushing repeated or consistently having issues with attitude/behavior. Playdates should be fun, not stressful! Mom to a four year old

In our case that means explaining in advance what will be expected, what the consquences will be of not behaving as expected, and then following through on the consequences without delay.

Once you begin to observe the behavioral change you are looking for, you then of course reinforce it with praise. We would say something like: ''Wow, I noticed that you shared your pink dress and your blue dress, and I think you can be proud of yourself for that,'' or later ''I noticed that you tried very hard to share with your friend for a whole hour.''

We usually give praise right after the behavior has changed for the worse because that represents the time immediately after her energy for maintaining the new behavior have flagged and she has therefor put the most effort into attempting her change. She knows without saying that the last thing she did was not to share so I don't feel a need to point it out to her, but if she is approaching a boundary condition then I will also remind her of both the boundary and the consequences of crossing that boundary.

Over a longer period of time you can explain to her why the behavior isn't acceptable to you, which we do through stories. In stories we can experiment with good and bad behavior, the consequences of the behavior, good and bad.

If she argues with you about your boundary conditions then you can work out a compromise using the techniques of negotiation to agree what behavior is ok, and what the penalties will be for not living up to that behavior. Compromise usually starts with brainstorming for ideas, followed by analysis, then rejecting intolerable options, and finally selection from among the remaining options.

In negotiating with kids it is usually a good idea to have them suggest at least the first two or three ideas or they will have a hard time participating. We usually allow each side in the negotiation to remove one suggestion on the board as unacceptable as a starting point. (Almost always kids will identify the status quo as one of their options. Later, add your own 'my kid is a little angel' as counterpoint.) Kevin Smathers ks.bpn@ank.com

If you value your friendship with the other girl's mother (you said your children have known each other since infancy so I assume you and her mother are friends) then you may have to consider changing your parenting style.

Frankly, if I was your child's friend's mother I would not continue playdates with your daughter. If you won't step in and help work things out or at the very least point out to your daughter that her behavior is rude (especially to guests) than I wouldn't want to have you as a friend! Why endure all that grief, especially for her daughter.

Your daughter knows the difference between right and wrong, it's your place as her parent to reinforce good decision making. Four year olds know the importance of sharing, giving and helping make a friend feel comfortable in their home. Mine certainly does, and I would expect no less.

Perhaps your daughter is not ready for playdates at her home (a park might work better?), and until she is ready to behave properly with/to her guests than maybe you might want to hold off on play dates. Not afraid to step in

I agree that kids need to learn to work things out themselves eventually, but it is up to us to teach them some tools so that they don't always resort to grabbing, pushing, screaming and crying. I'm trying to teach my son (much younger than your daughter) to make a trade, ask nicely, use your words, and take a turn after the other child is done.

If nothing seems to work and he seems to just be working himself up into a lather, I bring him to his room for a cool-down period either alone or with me and then I tell him that if he doesn't want to play nicely, others won't want to play with him. if he seems more content to play by himself, I let him. Also I find that often when another child has a toy, it becomes a desired object, not because the toy is interesting to him but just becasue someone else has it. I try to have duplicates or eqivalents of some toys. For example my son has a rhino flashlight the roars when his mouth is opened. he was fighting with his friend for it so we got out another regular flashlight that he usually likes. he refused it until I asked enthusiastically for it and started playing with it. Then he forgot all about the rhino flashlight and came over to take mine, which he got after asking nicely. anon

Before any situation where sharing might be an issue, we set up expectations that someone will be using his things. We start these discussions as much in advance as possible, ideally the night before. If there are special things he doesn't want to share he can choose to set them aside.

We have also stopped expecting him to hand over a toy the moment another child asks for it. Im sure that some parents will call this selfish, but I would never just automatically give my child the newspaper Im reading or food off my plate or control of the TV simply becuase he expressed an interest). If I was in the middle of enjoying something he wanted I would either figure out a way we could enjoy it together, ask him to wait until I was finsished, or simply tell him no, his request could not be granted. This is not because I am a selfish person, but rather that I believe there are limits to what another person is entitled to.

Now we expect the same from our son. If a dispute arises we either help him figure out a way the parties can play together (you'd be surprised how often this works), remind him to explain that he is in the middle of using an item and that he will give the other person a turn as soon as he is finished, or in some cases my son will explain that an item is very special to him and try to find a comparable item for the other person to use (this only happens with a particular cape or during unplanned encounters). If my son is not ready to part with an item we expect him to help the other person find something else to enjoy in the meantime.

The result has been that so much of the anxiety of someone ''taking'' something has diminished. My son now shares not because he's being forced to, but because he actually wants to.

We still have our moments and tantrums. In those cases my son is removed from the situation NOT the item in dispute. Afterall, he's the real source of the problem, and most times a change of space can bring on all sorts of good will. I also found that when I took things away everybody felt bad, and no one had a chance to learn anything about getting along. Susannah

Playdates ...am I the only one not doing this yet??

I'm a mom of two young kids (a 3 1/2 year old and a 1 1/2 year old). My daughter attends preschool 3 days a week and my husband and I both work full time...although I stay home with my kids one day a week as part of a flex schedule.

When the weekends roll around, we typically spend the majority of the time as family time (playing with the kids, taking ''mini'' day trips, doing errands).

In the past month or so, I have talked to at least 3 Moms that were quite surprised that I haven't been setting up play dates for my daughter...either during the week or on the weekends. I guess I just figured that since my daughter can play with kids at preschool 3 days a week, that she is already having plenty of time with other kids. But suddenly I'm feeling very guilty since it sounds like everyone else is making playdates a top priority.

I'm just torn and feeling stressed out about it. Perhaps my husband and I are being selfish since we do monopolize our kids weekends and late afternoons during the week. But I don't want to be a bad Mom and deprive my kids of something that seems so important to most other Moms I have talked to.

Any advice or insight would be much appreciated. Trying to be a good Mom, Kimby

I think that it is important for children to be able to interact with other children their age, but I do not think that it is exactly neccessary to set up play dates with other parents and their children when you do not want to. Please do not feel force to set up play dates or like you are doing something wrong because you have not done so. You have limited hours with your children so I think that you wanting to spend as much time as possible is totally fine. If you still feel like you should be setting up play dates then maybe you can consider doing a playdate one Saturday a month with one of your children's friends from school or with other parents and children that you know.

Sorry such a long email, I hope that it helps =) Barbara

1.- The purpose sometimes is dubious, is the playdate actually a way to get free babysitting services or is a genuine invitation to get to know you and your child?. 2.-The way the question is posed. It it almost an impositon by ''desperate'' parents who need your child for ''entretaiment'' purposes for their child. In other words they are going to use your child to keep theirs busy while they do something else. Get it?

Red flags: If they impose the playdate, like they are ''telling'' you you have to have one. When as soon as you have a playdate, they request or impose ''it is your turn now''. Suddenly playdates turn into sleep-overs. Playdates that your ''friend'' is requesting during the week turn into playdates you have to have at your home on ''weekends''. Constant phone calls for playdates from the same person.(run for your life from this person).This is a perfect example of intention of creating a free babysitting system.

The Positive playdates: When you are asked for you and your child to join ''XYZ'' person for a nice cup of coffee/tea, and the company of your son for a couple of hours. When after the playdate the couple decides to get to know you better and invites you, not your child, not spend time together. When you visit with your child, a babysitter is present for the adults to have ''me-time''. When you are invited to an outting, like movies, theater, cinema, restaurant etc.. and they love to have you too.

If non of the above applies, hire a babysitter!. It is true kids do have a lot of time to spend in school together; unless is with the neighbor, orquestrating a playdate is quiet a dilemma in the ''red flags'' condition. Same problem here

I am in a similar situation to you: both my husband and I work full time and our son is in daycare. I have thought about joining a mother's group so my son could have interaction with other kids but I've hesitated because I believe that he spends enough time with other kids in daycare. I feel that what he really needs is to spend quality time with his parents.

I wouldn't feel guilty about it. It seems everything I've read about child development talks about how important it is for a child to spend time with his/her parents. Your child is getting interaction with other kids at preschool. OK with few playdates

I feel like she gets plenty of socialization at school so I don't understand playdates myself... Maybe someone can enlighten me to its benefits?

In the meantime, don't stress yourself out! Enjoy this time with your kids while they still want to hang out with you. The way I look at it, by the time my daughter is 7, she's probably going to prefer her friends over me! You're Not Alone!

I also used to wonder if I was being negligent in not helping my kids pursue friendships, if I was cheating them out of extra social skills, if I was being perceived as anti-social. But I've slowly decided that it's a matter of family style, personality of your kids, and what you're comfortable with. Sometimes I like to just let the weekend flow without having to work around playdates scheduled a week prior; sometimes it's a lot of trouble to pick up/drop off; sometimes I just don't want another kid over to make more mess/trouble; sometimes certain parents take advantage... But I do find that the kids have a lot more fun at the park if they can play with friends there, so that's what we usually do. Always Learning

In retrospect, I wish we'd gotten into the habit of playdates earlier. Once our daughter figured out that other people did them, she felt left out. We're also finding that, while she's academically ahead of her peers, she is lagging socially. I don't know if more play dates earlier would have helped, but I think it is possible. It is also true that other families have established routines for playdates, and have families with which they have them regularly, and it has been hard for us to become part of this network.

I wouldn't try to revamp your life completely, but if you can manage a playdate a month now, it might be helpful later. Good luck! Lisa

I have approached several parents at her preschool about playdates. I always offer to have the child over to our house after school or on weekends (whatever is convenient for the parents), invite the parent to stay and chat if that's what they would like to do. They are also free to take advantage of the ''down time'' to do stuff they need to. I never invite people over with the expectation that they will reciprocate because we have a lot of single parents at our preschool who work full-time. If my daughter does get a return invite, I'm delighted but it's not essential.

Most parents are delighted to be asked and many say yes. Some graciously decline. I hope they don't feel put out by these overtures but I'm only trying to accommodate my daughter's wishes (when possible) to form friendships outside of school.

I also enjoy getting to know other parents because I work part-time out of my home and it's very isolating because it's just me and the computer.

I think playdates add a richness to a child's life that it's hard to get in other ways. Kids also get to see other homes and how other people live. It's fascinating for them. Also, we don't have any extended family in the area so we don't have grandparents or cousins who want to spend weekends with the kids. If we had more family in the area, I might feel differently.

I would encourage all parents to be flexible and evaluate playdate requests on a case-by-case basis. If you like the parent who is asking and your child has developed a bond with their child, it's a great way to get to know other families. mom of sociable daughter

I, generally speaking, let my kid and her friends request the playdates (it's not usually the parents, unless the child is asking the parent to ask me). But this happens pretty frequently (1 or 2 times a week) and I try to have playdates scheduled on days that my kid is not at school, so that she gets a chance to be social a little bit every day. I don't think it's ever too early for kids to learn how to be friends, to learn to play coopertively and well together, but I think it's not unusual for kids to not have ''playdates'' before the age of four, when it really benefits them, as the other poster stated, it's pretty rare that a parent can sit down and play with dolls for two hours. I don't recall what age your child is but I wouldn't worry about not doing it too much, unless of course your child is asking for it. But don't underestimate the value of children playing one on one. Not only is it enriching for them emotionally and intillectually, they are learning values, such as ''sharing'' and conflict resolution (with your guidence) that can only be learned with practice (not just preaching) that might not get the attention they deserve in a school environment. Fan of Playdates

hope another perpective helps. shahana

Arranging playdates for 5.5-year-old with Asbergers

Hi. My 5.5 year old boy is HFA/aspergers and I myself have minimal social skills. If I work up the nerve to call the parents of other kids in his class, what if anything should I say to these parent of ''typical'' kids? What sort of things should the kids be doing on a playdate? I'm not very good at organizing activities and such (I also have 3.5 year old girl and an infant). thanks in advance, Karlyn

Playdate mania in kindergarten

My child just started Kindergarten in the Fall. It's an all day program and we're extremely happy there, except for one thing: we are constantly being bombarded with after school playdate requests. While I am most happy that my child is well-liked and sought after, we're a bit overwhelmed by the intensity of these requests. When I told one parent that it probably wouldn't work for us during the week, she cornered my sitter a few weeks later and asked her! Personally, I think it's already a long day for my child. To add more time on top of that seems a bit much. I think it's important for my child to have down time after school and on the weekends. Am I the only one who is experiencing this? What's the most polite and clear way to say ''No thanks?'' Overwhelmed

Playdates and different parenting styles

I am looking for suggestions about helping my 3-year old son to understand fairness in the face of different parenting and discipline styles. The mother of one of his friends, with whom we have frequent playdates, has a totally different discipline style than my own, and I think it might be confusing him. For example, when the friend grabs toys or doesn't share, her mom waits for her to make the decision to give back the toy herself. This can often take a long time and leads to a lot of anguish and waiting on the part of the ''victim.'' I have much more of a zero tolerance policy regarding this kind of behavior, and often remove my son from the situation when he grabs or is the agressor toward another child. When the same consequence does not happen to his friend for similar behavior, I worry that he must feel like it is ok for her to do such things while it is not ok for him. (I could also be totally projecting my own issues onto him and he might not care a jot about it either way!) I don't have any judgment about this mother's style, but it is making me realize that this is probably something that happens throughout their lives; why does Johnny get to have a midnight curfew while mine is 10:00? Why can Joe eat candy but I can't? Luckily when they are older, you can just say, ''because that's how we do things at our house'' or explain your reasoning with them, but with a little one who is just figuring out how to behave socially, it's a tougher explanation. I could say, ''Susy's mom is very upset that she grabbed that toy from you and ruined your sandcastle, she just doesn't express her anger in the same way I do,'' but will he really understand that? Thanks for any thoughts on this matter. feeling inexperienced

I, too, am a ''zero tolerance'' parent among MANY other parents who feel it is ok to let the kid's work it out. Just last week my 2.5 year old waited and waited for another kid to share and then finally came to me and said ''Mommy I'm sad. Can I have my pacifier?'' I found myself at a loss for words except to say, ''Mommy's sorry, but I don't think Johnny wants to share right now.'' What could I say if his Mom wouldn't step in and urge him to share? Your question really isn't about how to handle the specific situation, but more about how to explain to a child that different families have different rules, although I'd love to hear if people have anything specific to say about the subject of sharing and how much parents ought to intervene(at 2 and 3 yo).

I love your point about this theme rearing its head throughout a child's years, and I will enjoy reading the responses because I know when I was growing up the answer was ''because we said so OR we are not the Jones OR if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you do it too? End of discussion...So I could definitely use some more productive ways to generate dialogue around different parenting styles. Thanks for voicing my sentiments, Sign Me, In the same boat

Weekend playdates - is 3-year-old missing out?

Our 3 year old son is in a daycare center in SF from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., 5 days a week. We also have a 9-month old son. On weekends, we tend to lay low - catch up on housework, cook some more interesting meals, go on outings up to Tilden or the local tot park, and sometimes visit grandparents. My husband is concerned that we should be organizing play dates for the older boy on the wknds. I just can't imagine ''scheduling'' something when getting through the routine of the day (feedings/meals, outfits, naps, toilet time, etc.) seems like such a huge accomplishment. Also - I feel like he gets lots of time with friends M-F, and it's okay to just hang out as a family on the weekends. All of this is complicated by the fact that his daycare buddies live in SF, and we live in the East Bay. (I am *not* willing to cross the Bay Bridge on weekends for a playdate.) Also, the only kids we know in the East Bay are through my Moms' Group - so the responsibility to do this would fall on me - not Dad. Is our kid ''missing out'' on something here by not having wknd play dates? Anon

I'm curious what your husband's logic is. By the way, I would be very careful NOT to assume the role of social secretary for your child, at your husbands request. If Dad thinks Junior needs playdates, Dad needs to set them up. Its good practice for staying involved with the child's life later. Heather

Starting playdates - should I invite the parents to stay?

My son has been attending preschool for about 3 months and would like to have play dates with a few of the kids (individually, that is). The kids are lovely and I'm totally game - the question is - how do I frame it with the parents? Do I ask them to ''visit'' while our children play or do I somehow give them options about staying or leaving? It feels a bit awkward - but if roles were reversed, I'd rather stay and visit while my child played in a house neither of us have been to before. I'd love to hear how other people have experienced this. Thanks!

What is a playdate? 2&3 year-olds and a nanny

What exactly is a playdate? Does it mean that your child goes over to another kid's house to play (without you)? Or does it mean that you and your child go together to another family's house? Or does it depend on the age of the child? And how does this work when there is a nanny involved? Is the nanny expected to babysit for the other child for free? The reason I'm asking is because when my neighbor says ''My little Johnnie would like a playdate with your little Stevie'' she means that she wants to send Johnnie (age 3) over for a couple of hours while she runs errands. But when my little Stevie (age 2) has a ''playdate'' at her house, I am expected to come too. I work full time, she is a stay-at-home mom, so maybe it's something I just don't get about stay-at-home. neighbor

When there is a nanny involved, the nanny and his/her employer need to reach an agreement about whether and how often the nanny will look after another child. No one I know pays their nanny extra for occasional playdates, but I'm thinking of my older son's friends (I think the age of the kids makes a huge difference -- two seven year olds playing with legos or whatever need a very different level of supervision than a three year old and a two year old). When the now seven year old was in pre-school, he only had playdates if his nanny and the other child's nanny or parent was present. Even with older kids, the key word is ''occasional'' though. I can imagine a situation, especially with preschool age children, where if another child was over for frequent and lengthy periods of time, it might look more like a babysitting share than a playdate and additional pay for the nanny (by the other child's parent) might be appropriate. If you are the employer, the most important thing is to be sure that it's okay with your nanny and that s/he doesn't feel imposed upon. On top of that, I have a very active two year old boy and I would not want my nanny looking after another child along with him.

It sounds like your neighbor is taking advantage of you for some free babysitting and you need to be up front and tell her you would prefer it if she stays to visit when her child comes over. For the record, I spent five years as a working mom and am now about to hit my third year as a stay-at-home, and no, her being a stay at home mom should not give her license to use you or your nanny as a babysitting service. Karen

If she wants to send her child over without coming herself, she is asking you to babysit for her. Not a problem if you're willing and she's willing to reciprocate! If she sends her child over and your paid nanny is there, you need to get permission from your nanny first, and then your neighbor should pay your nanny extra for the double babysitting time.

I don't think it has to do with her being a stay-at-home mom; I think she is just selfish (and you are letting her get away with it!). mom who tries to be fair

Is my 4-year-old deprived? She's had no play dates

My daughter is about to turn 4. She has been in preschool for a year now, while I work part-time. Usually, after I pick her up from school, I take her to one of her sports or dance classes. This has been very fun for her, but the one thing she has been missing out on all of this time are play dates at her home and other kids' homes. She sees kids in school, but not much after school or out of class. I've started to realize that this seems to be unusual, and that most of the kids in her preschool class are going to each other's houses for play dates a lot, and I think I have been unintentionally leaving her out of that.

I have two questions:
1) How many play dates are your 4-year olds doing, approx? One or more per week? More or less? Has my daughter been unfairly deprived all of this time, having only occasional play dates (one or two per month or less)?
2) What do you do on play dates at this age? My girl is a bit of a tomboy. Going to the park is fun, but the point is to see and be in each other's houses.

How do you keep two kids at this active, smart age engaged for two hours in your home? I appreciate your recommendations!
A well-intending mom

In my experience, playdates at this age serve 2 purposes:
(1) socialization skills for the kids--If a child is having difficulty getting along with the other kids in preschool, sometimes having a closer relationship with another child helps to ''break the ice''.
(2) socialization for lonely moms--I am the full-time mom of 2 and am sometimes starved for adult conversation so occasionally plan outings with other moms and their kids so I will have another grownup to talk with while my son or daughter play with the other kids.

You are already juggling working part-time, getting to and from preschool plus sports and dance classes so give yourself a pat on the back for the terrific job you are doing and don't worry about the rest. Sharon

4-year-old refuses to go - what to say to the other mom?

My four year old daughter normally loves to go to other kids' houses to play. But one day after going to a certain school mate's house, my daughter told me that she felt ''nervous'' there and didn't want to go again. When I asked for specifics, she said that her friend wanted her to unroll the toilet paper and she thought she was going to get in trouble. Since normally, unrolling the toilet paper all over the bathroom would not be something my daughter would be adverse to, I think it must be more than this. Since that first time, the mother has called repeatedly and asked if my daughter would come over and play again. My daughter still refuses to go and frankly, I don't want her to considering her feelings. But I don't know what to say to the other mother. I don't want to keep lying and telling her my daugher is busy which I have said so far. I can't tell the mother that my daughter doesn't like play dates because the mother see's my daughter going to other kid's houses to play. But I feel like telling her the truth will really hurt her feelings and since I don't really have specifics, I don't know how helpful it will be to her to hear about my daughter's reluctance to play at her house. My daughter likes the other girl to play at our house, but doesn't want to to to her house. Does anyone have any advice for me? I think I am looking for a solution that can be helpful to both of us and I'm not sure what that is.
concerned parent

2nd grade bully keeps inviting my son for a playdate

Our son is in the second grade and has been feeling very down because his best friend in school and another friend have been excluding him, being mean to him (verbally), and have been doing some very passive-aggressive stuff. One boy in particular seems to be the ring-leader, and the other boy simply goes along with it. Our son does not even want to go to school now, because of his fear of what is going to happen each day. The problem is that the ring-leader's mom wants her son to play with my son outside of school, wants them to be friends, and has even arranged play-dates for them. I have told her, gently, what has been going on, and she always has an excuse as to why her son acts this way, and thinks my son should ''understand.'' Do I tell her flat-out that my son does not want to have a playdate with her son and to quit asking? Our kids go to a small school in Berkeley, and I don't want things to be uncomfortable with the parents, but my son really does not want to go to this boy's house or to have playdates with him. The mother has started asking when they can get together. Is honesty really the best policy? Overprotective Mom

Too many playdates?

I haven't seen anything in the web log concerning this issue. My elementary-aged child is reasonably popular, and is invited to lots of playdates and birthday parties. I find that our social schedule pretty much revolves around him and his various lessons, playdates, and parties. I want him to have a good time with his friends, but I feel like his schedule is too much for our family! My partner and I both work, and our lives feel so hectic. I feel bad because my younger child is getting short shrift in terms of lessons and playdates, but I hate to add yet another child's events to our incredibly busy family schedule. Both kids go to school, so they see other kids then, and they play well together, and have a standing playdate once a week with a good family friend.

Many of the folks who invite my kids have only children, and only one of my children is invited to their house. I feel it is important to reciprocate playdates. What this means is that when their child comes to our house, they have free babysitting, whereas when my child goes to the other house, I have to entertain my other child.

Please don't get me wrong: I want my children to have healthy social lives with other children! But nowadays playdates involve driving kids across town, coordinating schedules, etc. I really want to simplify our lives. I've already limited each child to one birthday party per weekend. What do others feel is a reasonable number of playdates per week? And do folks have nice ways of expressing this when turning down invitations? I would really appreciate hearing from others about how you balance your families' lives. anonymous

One part of your letter I need to address is your slightly resentful feeling that it is inequitable to have one of your two children away at a playdate while you have to entertain your other child. You say that many of your son's friends are only children so that means the other parents are child free and get ''free babysitting'' when you take their child. It feels that way, but it is in fact equitable since it's a one on one trade of playdates; you just happen to have one more kid than they. It would be nice if both of your kids could go, but that playdate is primarily time for those two friends to spend. Perhaps you can arrange a simultaneous playdate for your other child, get a sitter for him or just look at it as a way for one on one time. I used to feel similar to you. I have three kids, so just having less kids around is a break enough. Also, it's often easier when a playdate friend over. While the kids are playing together, I could do a little something (clean house, cook meal, read, watch TV, etc.)here.

The number of playdates depends on the child. Some can have playdates every day. Others need some down time between parties and friends. Sounds like you need less while you kids are fine with lots of social activity. Could that also be differences in parent and child personalities? For example, my friend, who is shy, has a very outgoing daughter. I hope that you can find that balance of time for your family. Anon

9-year-old's friends cancel at the last minute

Hi All: I have a nine-year-old boy who likes to have friends over. Unfortunately, many of the families of his friends are very busy and we end up getting shafted at the last minute (thinking we have a play date arranged, then the kids can't make it). My boy is an only child and is crushed when this happens. And this happens a lot. I am wondering what else is going on. When his friends are over, they seem to get along just fine.

For me, I am aghast. I would think that parents would love to have a standing Sunday afternoon babysitter (which is what I am offering -- up to three hours on a Sunday afternoon). My boy has video games and toys, and there are parks nearby where I can take them. What I get out of this is a happier kid. What the other parents get is some free time. I don't even ask for reciprocation. So why don't they bite? Am I nuts?

Anyone have any ideas? I usually use the time on Sunday when my boy does have a friend over to just do my chores around the house, so I am there if they need me, but not in their hair. Looking forward to your advice.
Carol