Berkeley Parents Network: Restaurant Behavior

Berkeley Parents Network

Restaurant Behavior

Berkeley Parents Network > Advice > Parenting, Families, & the Community > Restaurant Behavior

Kids running loose in the restaurant

October 2003

My husband and i were eating at Fat Apple's (EC) last week when several *very* small children began to play under our table. Their parents were across the room and seemed oblivious to the situation. The waiter told the kids to go back to their parents as the kids were not only quite loud, but were doing very unsafe things like crawling under chairs. Eventually, the waiter asked the parents to come get the kids. (By then, the little ones were screaming.) The mom came over and as she was taking the littlest baby (about 2yo) from under the table, said to me very sweetly ''you don't mind the noise, do you.' My response was ''Actually, yes I do.'' So...of course, she got very mad at me and made quite a stink about how i didn't like kids.

Here's the question: How should i have handled the situation? Should i have stopped the kids earlier? Should i have not said anything to the parent who seemed to feel that I was an elderly child hater?

Advice, please. I wouldn't have said anything at all if she hadn't asked...or if she had said that she was sorry for the disruption, I would have just thanked her for taking the child away. i just *thought8 that she was trying to make me a co- dependent in her kids behavioral issues. Honestly likes kids!

No, I do not think that you did anything wrong in telling the mother that, yes, the noise (and behavior) was disruptive. She asked, after all (even if was a rhetorical question). I suppose that you could have asked the parent to remove the children earlier, but really, it was the mother's responsibility to make sure that her children were NOT disruptive in the restaurant! A restaurant is not a childcare center and it is selfish and inconsiderate of parents to assume that children can behave however they like, at the expense of the enjoyment of other patrons. I also have a toddler and I expect her to sit and either eat or stay entertained with the activities that I bring (crayons, stickers, books). If she cannot cooperate, we leave.
toddler's mom

It sounds to me like you handled the situation well and the mom was trying to get your buy-in on her bad parenting. Anyone who would let a two-year old wander to the other side of a restaurant, even as small as Fat Apple's, is clueless. Don't feel guilty! Lori

First of all, I believe that you like kids! Thank you for posting your concerns. I am a mom of a 2-year-old who can get quite unruly in a restaurant and we handle it in a completely different way than the parents you described. (We also frequent FatApples at both locations so I felt some community sense to reply.) When our 2-year-old becomes whiny or loud in her high chair or booster, we take her outside. When she wants to get out of her chair, we have a rule that says she has to stay no more than one step away for our table, and if she doesn't want to do that, she's either in the chair or, again, outside with one of us.

In the situation you described, I would also be put off and irritated. In my opinion, other people in a restaurant should not have to be interrupted, poked, scuttled-under, or drowned out by kids of any age. It's a drag sometimes to have to get up and leave before you're even half-way through your meal, but that is what we do if our child is getting out of hand. I find that I'm annoyed at parents who don't feel this same sense of responsibility/boundries because it presents a situation where I have to try and convince our own 2-year-old that just because those other kids are running around, it doesn't mean that she can. Before I had kids, I was more sensitive to unruly kids than I am now. But not dramatically so. You were right to respond honestly to the parent's weird comment (''you don't mind the noise, do you?''). Tolerance is a good thing, but the situation you describe pushed the limits of common courtesy. striving to be respectful and to teach my child good manners

I'll be interested to see the responses to this one. I think you were spot on -- and extremely patient. Parent asked; you answered. I think Miss Manners would hope you did so with a smile on your face (as an understanding parent of a former toddler?), but icy indifference would not be a hanging offense under the circumstances. Anonymous diner

I think you had handled a situation quite fine. It was just that the mother was not responsible enough in my opinion. She should not have asked you to accept her idea about what small children can do at the restaurants.

If I were in your situation, I may have even told children something like '' Excuse me. It is not safe to play under the table in an restaurant. This is not a play ground. Come out, and let's go back to your mom.'' I may even take them by myself to the mother, and say to her that ''I do not think it is safe for those little ones to play under the table. I also would like to enjoy my food, so could you keep an eye on your kids please?''. Give back kids, and walk away.

I do understand that it is certainly difficult for small children to be sitting all the time while eating. I know it since I have two boys, 4 and a half years old and 11 months old. But still, that is not a place to play. To me, restaurants are places to eat and enjoy food. Not a play ground. Your responce seems very right to me, so you do not need to feel bad about yourself. Mom of two active boys

I do not think that you are a baby hater. I have two small children of my own and if they were climbing under your table I would be quite embarassed. My kids are not angels and they have a hard time sitting still in any restaurant, so we don't go too many places. I feel strongly that we have to impress upon them that everyone needs to enjoy their meal which sometimes means that we make a hasty exit. Joan

I don't think you should have done anything differently. For one, it's not your responsibility to parent somebody else's kids. When parents let their kids roam free in a restaurant it's absolutely their responsibility to make sure that 1. their kids are safe and 2. their kids aren't bothering anybody. It makes me angry to no end when I see kids roaming loose in public places and their parents not even *watching* them. My almost 2 year old loves to run directly into the kitchen whenever we let him loose in a restaurant, and I would absolutely never even CONSIDER not following closely behind. And as for the mother getting mad at you, if somebody is going to ask you whether or not you're okay with something, they have to be prepared for the possibility that you're going to give them an answer they're not entirely happy with. Jill

It can be hard taking small kids to restaurants, and since Fat Apples is such a kid friendly place, lots of parents of young kids do sort of let their guard down. Still, the situation you describe seems really over the top. The thing that seems most difficult in this situation is that the kids were actually under your table and the parents didn't mind. That would bother me, too. The mother's question to you sounds like a request to let her off the hook. You didn't. No wonder she was angry. But I don't think you were out of line at all. anon

Hi there! First, let me say that I have a very energetic 22 month-old boy whom I take to restautants and will not allow to run around and inconvenience anyone else. If he can't sit still after repeated attempts to make him behave, we leave (has almost never happened).

Now, let me say, good for you for responding the way you did. My sister-in-law and her husband (wonderful people whom I love dearly) were a little that way (though not as extreme as letting their kids play under someone's table!). They somehow seemed to believe that their kids were cute and everyone else would not mind entertaining and babysitting them in restaurants. It is very impolite behavior and a very poor example for the kids.

This woman assumed that by saying what she did, the entire episode was somehow made acceptable and normal. There is also this unrealistic thinking that my sis-in-law seemed to have (and maybe this woman too) that if people minded they would say something. However, we all know that this is not usually the case as people are generally non-confrontational in these situations and should not have to be put in a situation that makes them uncomfortable.

The only way people learn is when someone actually says something - like you did. I think what you did was brave as most people would have responded that they didn't mind even if they did. I don't know if this situation could have been handled any differently - maybe calling the waiter right from the start? Restaurants For All!

I have a feeling you're going to get a flood of responses, all of which will support you (it'll be interesting to read any responses that don't), but I can't help jumping in and responding. I've always loved being around kids, and am now a mom of a 16 month old. However, parents who allow their children to run around restaurants being disruptive is a big pet peeve of mine -- and I will never allow my son to behave that way! You can like children and still think their parents should be teaching them safe and appropriate behavior -- and as you said, young children wandering around a restaurant are a safety hazard. Although I've never seen a waiter actually collide with a young child, I've seen some close calls. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that people carrying trays of hot food and people who are less than 3 feet tall are not a good combination! Even if they're not doing anything unsafe, it's not ok to allow your kids to disturb other diners. Part of the job of parents is to teach kids appropriate behavior, and crawling around under the tables in a restaurant is clearly not appropriate.

If anything, you were far more tolerant than I would have been. As soon as the children started playing under my table, I would have been looking for their parents and asking them to bring their kids back to their table. Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with a situation exactly like the one you described, but I think you behaved reasonably and the mother of those kids did not. Diane

Your answer was perfectly acceptable, though the mom's response was anything but acceptable. The simple fact that this woman had to be told by the waiter to corral her kids should have given her an indication that she needed to correct the situation as quickly and as quietly as possible. Don't feel as if you came off as a kid hating elder...this woman will, no doubt, come across many more people who, when asked, will tell her that her kids need a bit of discipine. You should not feel guilty for honestly answering the question. Bennett

I found your post amazing! Some parents let their small kids play under YOUR table on the other side of the restaurant, and then they got upset when you weren't thrilled? I don't think you need to feel apologetic about making it clear that you don't need someone else's toddlers under your table during breakfast. I have two small kids and sometimes they escape from our immediate control, but we make an effort to keep them fairly well corralled because, frankly, it is our view that other people don't come to restaurants to interact at length and on fairly intimate terms with our small children. And while I also think that people without young kids need to understand (or remember) that it can be difficult to control kids in public, and have a little sympathy with harried parents, it sounds like your expectations were reasonable. I think your response was fine, perfectly appropriate, and after all, she ASKED. You would also have been within your rights, in my view, to extract the kids from under the table and return them to the parents much earlier in the process. That mom had no call to get angry, but should simply have apologized to you for any inconvenience. And perhaps she shouldn't ask questions to which she doesn't really want an answer. Wendy

I absolutely support your honest response to the mother of the small children. As the mother of a 2 year old who regularly eats in restaurants, I am apalled by the behavior I see going unchecked. I hold the parents fully responsible for not doing their job and feel sorry for children who have so few guidelines about what constitutes appropriate public behavior. I feel that it is my responsibility to teach my child how to behave in a restaurant and if he is not capable of handling sitting quietly and NOT DISTURBING other diners, I need to remove him from the situation, not ask others to endure it. Restaurants, no matter how kid-friendly, are not playgrounds where running around and yelling is acceptable. I'm not saying that my child is always perfect in a restaurant, but it is my job to decide that he is disturbing others and ask for my meal ''to go.'' Trying to be Considerate Mom

Please, oh please, do not let this woman's insensitivity and inappropriate anger make you feel badly about yourself. You would not cough on her food or talk loudly on your cell phone or do anything else to ruin her meal so why should be be allowed to do the same thing to you? And then to get mad at you for not being thrilled about it is unbelievably nervvy. Personally, it sounds like you handled it very gently. I adore children but would not be so quiet if I was forced to have them under my table while eating. I believe you that you are not a child hater! Elizabeth

NO, you did not do anything wrong. I have two kids myself and love kids, but I would have done what you did. Whenever I am out with my kids, I am very sensitive to others who may like kids but would like to be left alone (my fantasy!). And those who may not like kids too. Also,kids playing in restaraunts under the table etc. is dangerous! If that woman wanted to eat out without having to deal with her kids, she should have called a babysitter! Hilary

I have a 2 1/2 year old and I would NEVER allow her to play under someone else's table when their eating at the restaurant. This person obviously expects that her very relaxed style of parenting should be observed (and participated) by all - She is WRONG. Yes, kids fuss or cry or spill their drink but besides the noise and mess issues (Fat Apples is not a quiet place anyway and the mess usually confined to their own table) your personal space should not have been taken over AND the parent should have retrieved their child immediately, without having to be asked to do so.

As for the comment: Maybe you could have been more diplomatic (the tone it was said cannot be heard in a posting), however, if she didn't want to know, she should not have asked. Anon

More power to you! I have 3 young sons and we eat out with them 1 - 2 times a week. And I would find the behavior you described completely unacceptable in my own or other's children. You were absolutely right to answer her probably rhetorical question honestly. Unfortunately my experience is that people who behave as she did don't really care what others think and certainly would not recognize any fault on her part. Still cares about manners

I wouldn't worry about it. This mom sounded like she just wanted you to say it wasn't a problem. Your only other choice would have been to say it wasn't a problem, or to say something like, ''normally it wouldn't bother me, but we were trying to get through a pretty difficult conversation..'' Which maybe you could say if it hadn't been bugging you through your meal. But it's not your problem if the parents can't control their kids, and if they ask the question and don't like what they hear. Personally, I would have asked the parent to come get the kid immediately, maybe asking the kid nicely if they could play under their parents' table. But if it troubles you to get the response that you got, next time maybe you should lie nicely! anon

I just wanted to chime in on your posting about restaurant behavior. It is never okay to let a child wander around a restaurant. For safety reasons alone, workers carry hot food, liquid in glass-which if spilled or broken on ANYONE would become a large problem for all concerned.

When my child was 2 ''restauranting'' became a challenge, if he was under my table, that would work for a time, but any wandering, required immediate removal outside to walk and wander. I was aghast to see that someone was offended because you were ''inconvenienced'' by her unsupervised children under you table. former restaurateur

I agree with everyone else who posted. You didn't do or say anything wrong. I have two small children and I NEVER let them run around in restaurants. I think it is dangerous, and cannot believe how many people let their kids do it. (Can you imagine if one of the servers had tripped over one of the kids while carrying a full tray, or a tray with hot food?!)

A simillar incident happened to me this summer at the pool while I was waiting for my son's lesson to end. There were three kids climbing on bleachers and jumping off to the concrete patio below. I was very nervous. It seemed as if the children were without adult supervision. I waited for the pool workers to tell the kids to knock it off, but that never happened. Eventually one of the kids climbed up the back of the bleachers and popped out between my legs. That was it! I calmly told the kid that I was uncomfortable with what was going on and that she should go play by her parent. She left... she, and her friends, continued to run around, but not near us. The other parents around me all thanked me for stepping in, but none of them had felt comfortable enough to do anything. Later I noticed a woman who had been sitting with her back to the kids get up and herd them out.

I know that many parents object to others commenting on or correcting their children's behavior. I can understand that different people have different standards of behavior and safety. I know that some people are insulted and feel reprimanded themselves when another grown up makes a comment about their kid's behavior, even if they agree. I don't advocate disciplining strange children, or even interfering, but we all have to share the world... restaurants, parks, etc. I would love it if everyone could understand that and be attentive to their kids so they could reign them in when appropriate. Until then, I guess we will have to become comfortable stepping in sometimes. a mom who wants restaurants to keep welcoming children

Last year a friend of ours was in Picante, which is also a very kid-friendly restaurant. She let her son run up and down, back and forth, and so on. Someone accidently spilled very hot tea on him, burning him on his face and neck (rather severely, in fact). It is not just rude to let your kids climb about in a restaurant, but it is also dangerous. Picnics are for running around, not restaurants. And BTW, no one finds your children as cute as you do. In fact, most of us find them more cute if they are sitting quietly in their seats.... Mother of well-behaved children

Toddler screaming in restaurants

October 2002

I am having a difficult time coping with my 19-month old screaming at the top of his lungs while in a restaurant. I can understand that he is vocalizing and cannot usually control his volume. However, instead of babbling, he screams. I don't usually mind his screaming and I try to give words to his feelings. But it seems everytime we are in a restaurant he screams bloody murder. In the quiet cafe where I like to have breakfast, other customers are leaving because my child is so loud and obnoxious. Telling him ''no screaming,'' covering his mouth with my hand, and blowing air in his face are no longer working. Am I doomed to eat at home for the next couple of years? Any suggestions besides eating in noisy places? I have checked the website regarding screaming toddlers and none of the advice there helped. Thanks. Leslie

My child is pretty mild in terms of this kind of behaviour, but we have always looked at it as undesirable social behavior/manners that we would want to discourage. Therefore, we handle it like throwing food, purposely spilling juice, etc. We don't think that ''vocalizing'' and other euphemisms are fair for the other people who have to put up with the noise from screaming. Basicly, be consistent (with whatever method you use) as you are with other undesirable behaviors. Anonymous

Having had both a child who behaved like a dream in restaurants at all ages and two who were loud and tried to run around whenever they could, I came to realize that my two roudy kids were trying to tell me that they were not ready to frequent a restaurant. Either it was too much to ask of them (they weren't ready to behave in a mannerly way) or they got hyped up from the noise and commotion that happens in even the most relaxed restuarants. Your child is probably not ready for restaurants and it is not fair to the other diners to subject them to his noisy behavior. It always seems to work best not to ask more of your child than he or she can manage. Try cutting your restaurant visits for now (take-out is a good option) and then begin again in a couple of months. It does improve, but it is up to you to make it easier for your child (not to mention other diners!). harried mom

Simple answer: don't go to restaurants. This is just a stage, and you will be able to return to restaurants again within the year, but there's no excuse for ruining other people's dining experience in the short term. Get your order to go and take it home or to the park. And when you decide to try restaurants again, be strict: the first scream gets a warning, the second one means you leave, whether or not either of you have eaten. 18 months isn't too early to learn to be considerate of others or to understand the concept of consequences. A mom whose child behaves in restaurants

My now 21-month-old went through a big screaming phase for three weeks at about 19 months. The bad news is that nothing really worked and we stopped going to restaurants for a while -- though these were our best attempts at dealing with it: 1) Telling him: ''Ouch, that really hurts mommy's ears.'' -- complete with exagerrated crying. 2) Explaining: ''Ugh, that really upsets the other people in the restaurant, see how sad they look!'' 3) We distracted him with books, cars, coloring, ice, etc... 4) We tried to be sure he was the right amount of hungry (not starving, but ready to eat), not tired, comfortable, etc... 5) Books and other parents recommended explaining that screaming is an ''outside voice'' and taking them outside to scream. This didn't work for us because we did not want to go to a restaurant only to hang-out outside.

The good news is that the screaming phase has passed. (Though restaurants remain off our destination list as the child does not sit still...) Bon Appetit and Good Luck! CKC

Sorry to say, but you probably will need to stay home a bit more often for some period of time. It just isn't fair to other patrons to expect them to put up with screaming while they are trying to enjoy their time out.

Personally, I find it much more relaxing to eat take-out while my 2 small children play happily at home than to deal with shushing & disciplining in most restaurants. We've even given in to my husband's iron-clad rule of never doing take-out sushi.

The good news is, it's not forever. It may be a shorter or longer phase (depending on your child) but there will be light at the end of the tunnel! We venture out occasionally with great success...but it wasn't always so. Jill

I remember how sad I was when my 15 month old began behaving in a loud and disruptive way in restaurants. I stopped going out with him, because I didn't feel it was fair to the other diners -- just one loud scream from him, and we'd leave. However, it didn't last long, and as soon as he got a few words under his belt we were back to our breakfasts & lunches out. This too will pass! (In the meantime, I hope you'll take pity on the other patrons....) anon

Hi, my toddler doesn't scream in restaurants, but wants to be more active than most restaurants can accomodate, so I think I understand where you're coming from. The issue isn't so much changing your toddler's behavior to fit the restaurant, but choosing restaurants that can handle your toddler's behavior. I'm not anti-discipline - I agree you should set boundaries for your child. But there is only so much you can expect from a 17 month old short of gagging and hog-tying them. I had to laugh at your description of your favorite restaurant as a ''quiet cafe.'' Quiet and toddlers don't mix! For the sake of the other patrons, and for your own mental health, that place should probably be off your list for now, at least when your toddler is with you. It sounds like it's not fun for either of you anyway. There are more kid-friendly places, but they would never be described as quite cafes! For toddlers, the noisier the better..... Perhaps you could visit your favorite quiet place on occasions when you have the luxury of a babysitter. And someday you can return with your then-preschooler, who will be old enough to understand what behavior is appropriate in quiet restaurants.
mom of wild toddler

Um, don't eat in quiet restaurants with your toddler. I know some people with very obedient, quiet, docile little children who keep going to restaurants throughout their toddler years, but that doesn't describe most kids. It certainly didn't describe ours. Our daughter ate at Chez Panisse and Rivoli and Olivetto during her first year, but from then on, we went to places like Kensington Circus or Barney's, and did a lot of take-out. If it's not screaming, it's running around, banging the silverware, throwing food, etc. There's a reason why you don't often see little kids in nice restaurants. Maybe there's some magic bullet I don't know about (or you could slip some valium into the sippy cup), but it might just be time to readjust your lifestyle a little.
Judith, once again

I don't think you are doomed to eat at home for the next two years, but you may be doomed to avoid quiet cafes/restaurants for the next few months or more. Toddlers scream because they can. Because it's fun. And it's very very very hard to reason with a 19-month old about proper manners in public. When my kids were little we either ate at noisy places or got our food to go and ate at a park or playground. Maybe other parents will have some clever ideas for you, but I think you may drive yourself, your kid & other customers crazy if you try to make a 19-month-old do something as unnatural (for them) as be quiet.
Melinda

I agree with the others who've said it's just not appropriate to take a toddler to certain types of restaurants. But, restaurant or no restaurant, there is one thing you can do that usually works magic on a screaming (but not crying) toddler: whisper. Usually they'll copy you. It's a game to see how loud they can yell -- and you can make it a game to see how quietly they can 'yell'.

Ever see a parent scream at a child, ''stop screaming!''? If you think about it, it's no wonder that doesn't work! A stage whispered, ''I bet you can't hear me!'' is usually more effective. Holly

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