How to thank parents for financial help

Hi BPN, My partner and I just bought a house, which was made possible by my parents giving us the down payment. We are so grateful and wondering the best way to show our appreciation. I know my parents can afford to do this and feel good about helping us, and I am sure they know how grateful we are (obviously I have thanked them verbally many times!), but we were trying to think of something special we could do or make for them to express our gratitude in a tangible way.

It would feel silly to ''buy them something nice'' because they have quite a bit more money than we do and have all the ''stuff'' they need. We did consider making something special with photos of our young child enjoying the house (since they are doting grandparents too and live far away).

Has anyone ever been in this situation? Any ideas, suggestions, etc. would be great. Thank you! Grateful daughter

Otherwise, the photo-related gifts, such as hardbound Mac photo books, are indeed nice. Also, kids' artwork made into gift items, like trivets or aprons, can be good. Generally, try to show your gratitude by opening your lives to include them as much as possible, and when an opportunity for doing something special presents itself, take it! Anon

Resentful about parents' comfort vs. our financial struggle

I need some help getting perspective. In the midst of financial struggles, I can't stop myself from feeling resentful about the relative financial comfort of my parents. I am much too old to expect them to help me financially (and they have helped a great deal in the past), and they are retired and thus managing their money while facing the insecurities/fears of getting older. However, I find myself annoyed when hearing the details of their nice vacations etc while I am worrying about which bill I am not going to pay this month. My partner and I both work, and we have two young children, and we live very frugally. We have no security (don't own a home, don't have savings, do have lots of debt). Although I know this is my problem to solve, and I tell myself that I am glad they are able to enjoy their retirement, etc., I am still full of resentment! I would love to get some advice about how to let go of that. Greedy?

I agree that it's hard in the Bay Area. Almost all couples I know live pay-check to pay-check. But you're chosing to live here and making other choices about your lifestyle, line of work, etc. Maybe changing one (or all of) that part of the equation will change your standard of living? Not looking to support my kids when they are adults

I also recognize that although I consider myself to be financially responsible and frugal, my parents NEVER had any of the things I take for granted. We ate out twice a year. Hamburger was a big feature of in-home dining. Clothes were always discount and we shopped for new ones twice a year, total. For the kids. There are lots more things to buy now, and you can sure feel deprived not having them: cable TV, cell phones, internet service. But try to consider them luxuries, not necessities!! Besides not having those things, my parents didn't spend money on water, either, and coffee was Maxwell House in a can. So even though they had a nice home and my dad was able to retire with a good pension, I don't think their lives were really easier than mine.

I'm also a bit on the other side of the fence. My husband has adult children who give us a little attitude every time we take a trip or buy something ("Oooh, that's really nice, I wish I could afford that!") Please don't do that. If you need money for some emergency, ask for your parents for it -- don't go passive-aggressive. I hope this helps and doesn't sound too preachy. You sound like you are honest with yourself and trying to figure out a way not to resent your parents. Maybe a little more time spent with the truly disadvantaged? And try to enjoy your independence, too. Would you really want to be Paris Hilton, who couldn't last for five minutes if she didn't have her parents' wealth to consume? Good luck.

I just want to acknowledge that economic times have changed so much and it really is harder for people to raise a family and have any security nowadays. Your parents probably overall did have it easier. And owning a home in the Bay Area? I never could do it and I know I'm not alone but I am alone among my friends who have a far higher level of security than I do. (I was a single parent.) I do know that feeling of envy bordering on despair when someone goes on and on about replacing the gutters on the vacation house. Or, one time, a woman was actually crying at school dropoff becuase HER car died and she had to call her husband and they had to SHARE a car while hers was in the shop. (Hello, you have a partner and a second car.) I was and am happy for my friends' good fortune and I know they wish me the best.

I think it's ok to feel that way privately. Then go back to your own life. Take responsibility for any iffy decisions you made that got you into this. In my case, married wrong guy, wouldn't live with an abuser. Acknowledge the wisdom and stupidity of your decisions.

And it's not over! List all the pluses and advantages you have, maybe a husband, health, the ability to work, the fact that childhood passes. You can create some level of security still. I'm probably older than you and I believe that. Unless you choose suicide, and you can't with kids (can you tell I've ridden this train of thought?), you just can't give up. It comes to some spiritual or philosophical attitude of accepting the unique challenges you have and remembering that everybody has something. It's hard but try not to compare. I compared myself to one of my friends, financially, then she got sick and died. Young!

Maybe it comes down to just not giving up, doing your best, and appreciating all the small things. - i hear you

I'm not sure how you can heal/deal with your resentment; it's such a foreign thing to me to have highly functional parents (at least where their finances are concerned). I'm actually jealous of you! I had to raise myself as a kid because my mom is so inept at ''life'' -it felt like I was raising the both of us, frankly. I always wished someone would lend a hand. But it was just the two of us. Now I (once again) wish I had a sibling or someone to help me... It feels like so much. My mom is only 60, but has to work at minimum-wage jobs because she can't handle much more than that. I should shut-up now, I'm depressing myself.

But good luck to you. And when you feel the resentment creep up, think of me. At least you aren't having to take care of them AND yourself and your family. Something small to be grateful for. Mama-to-My-Mama

This is not true of a few of our friends though who are comfortably retired. Their comments and assumptions have been rather unfortunate in the past, and we have to manage our contact time with them. We know they like to come visit the kids, or to generally hand around with our friends but it is too much stress. Their own kids have to publicly admonish them for making remarks that are misplaced, or whining to people who they don't realize have far more economic uncertainty and challenges galore to deal with (to say nothing of the strong ideological views they so willingly share with everyone regardless of context or venue).

It's particularly hard that my peers (in mid-30s to mid-40s) despite their advanced education, capabilities and most of them being new parents, they are having enormous difficulties and fairly uncertain economic prospects at what should be the prime of their working lives. No-one wants to ''brag'' about how tough things are for them, so it's probably really tricky for someone to appreciate that the ''problems'' they have are nothing compared to many younger families.

This is not entirely generational though. We have some friends who regardless of how they are doing at retirement (and some are struggling) they are great to be with, insightful, lively, wise, and calm, regardless of what goes on in their lives.

That said, it is really weird to see some of our friends having to take their parents aside for ''a chat''. My uncle sometimes jokes that some in his generation are acting as if their kids are the adults in the room.

I think you need to at least communicate to your parents about how their words have an impact. I think you have the acumen necessary to convey to them that you both love them and appreciate them for how much they have done for you, and that their complaints are sometimes distracting to you, or that it is hard to relate to them about all that. You know that it won't make things instantly better, but you are their child, and you ought to give them a heads-up about what this impacts your relationship with them.

My dad expects me to provide him with money

I'm having a very difficult time with my father and would like to seek some advice from those with wisdom/experience. My father was a good father to me; he did everything he could to bring my mom and his three children to the US; support us during our early days in the US. On the down side, he was very self righteous; authoritative; and was not open to open communication with his children. I basically entered my first marriage out of the desire to escape the traditional family dynamics. Since then, I went through a divorce; went to law school on my own; remarried and now practice law in the city.

Now my father's retired from a great position. He lives in a condo which I helped buy; drives a SUV Lexus; occasionally travels to the old country or out of town; basically leads a very decent life for a retiree on a fixed budget. However, having the old Asian values of expecting children to support the parents financially in the parents' old age, he has driven me completely crazy. He expects me to provide him with money. Honestly, I have failed to do so simply because I have my family obligations myself: mortgage; my kid's education; other expenses, no luxury by all means: I'm still driving a 6 year old car, and frankly after all bills are paid, I survive on a $50 the last five days prior to the next paycheck!

And my father has turned completely hostile, bitter, & angry at me. He would either confront me directly about money issue: ''Why don't you pay for it, etc?'' Or everyday he would tell my mother that one of his deepest regrets is to bring his family to the US; he should have left us in Vietnam under the communists! That kind of statement hurt and angered me tremendously. First,as a mother myself, I cannot even imagine saying such cruel things about my kids.Secondly, I think if I could afford it, I would help him financially. But I can't. I tried to explain to him but he never listened and he has maintained a very cold, bitter interaction with me. I appreciate any advice you might give. anon

And yes, I know of the emotional blackmail (''I raised you - why aren't you being grateful, etc etc'') which sadly, has caused our relationship to deteriorate. I've decided to ignore it now (hard to do yes) and I've told myself that I won't let him get the better of me. I know this isn't very helpful but I hope you find your own way of dealing with his comments. spf

You should hightail it into therapy with someone who understands cultural issues surrounding Asian daughters (an Asian woman therapist if possible). She could help you get perspective on what is culturally appropriate - you are straddling two cultures and should have some support in your navigation towards a relationship with your parents which is comfortable for you.

It is possible that your father may not ever be able to accept that his paradigm is not going to work here. If he continues to be abusive, stop talking to him.

I know lots of Asian women who have successfully maintained a relationship with their old country parents within an American attitude (ie: no, you cannot come and live with me, I will not support you as long as you have the means to support yourself, yes I will be helpful to you - but not a servant). It takes strength not to fall into the ''good Chinese daughter'' trap (or Japanese, or Vietnamese), but find a therapist who understands these issues and you will be able to find a balance between the old world and the new. Eurasian and proud

Friends' frequent requests for money donations

I have friends who belong to organizations, lead organizations, and run marathons. Quite frequently, friends personally ask me for monetary donations to support their causes. When I was younger and starting out, even when money was an issue, I certainly didn't mind offering a small donation of perhaps $50 to support lymphoma or breast cancer for example for a friend running in a marathon. Now that I am older and financially established, friends hope and somewhat expect that I have the means to offer thousands of dollars to support their causes. I have been even placed on permanent mailing lists which I think is a bit rude. Annually I do donate to organizations of my choosing but I wish my friends would not persist in this arena. It has come to the point that one friend remarked, ''Why don't you just donate what you donated to .... to my organizaion?!'' or, (comparing qualities in friends, never good) ''Suzy Q donated $2000 to our organization this year, you really should, don't you think?'' How would you handle this situation? Why can't friends keep money out of the equation? Frustrated

My husband and I make a careful plan for our giving at the end of every calendar year. We favor making fewer, larger gifts rather than scattering smaller gifts between many organizations. When people hit me up, I explain our strategy to them. Not everyone is happy. Some people are so passionate about their causes that they can't understand how you could fail to share their passion. Explain to them that, while you admire their commitment to X, you have made other commitments.

One of the problems of being a donor is that you sometimes feel as though your reward for making gifts is more mail, more requests and higher expectations. But it's still worth it to support the causes you believe in, and they really do need your money. Stick to your guns, don't feel apologetic and keep on giving. Giver

Want to be removed as co-signer on step-daughter's loans

Hope the BPN community can help w/this one.

We co-signed student loans for my now 26 year old SIL back in 2002 & 2003. Her mother couldn't really help her and we stepped up. She is now married and has an excellent job tho is sometimes late w/a payment (and the loan co calls us every time).

As part of our general financial housecleaning this year (property trusts, paying down debt, etc)as we expect our second child, we have asked her to take us off her loans as co-signers, and thus far she has not, as she's been complaining that the interest on consolidation loans are too high (from 5% to 12% seems to be the range).

Do we have any recourse or are we dependent on her to get this done?

Thanks so much, Responsible

Money I loaned to friend has not been repaid

Back in May, my *good* friend, a colleague of mine, who is a single male, who works full time and makes 4K a month, asked me, a part time worker and married mother of 3, for a small loan. He stated he was in dire need of the money as he was getting evicted from his apartment for ''lack of payment''. He also was having problems with the IRS and the phone company for not paying his bills. I hesitated for a sec (with my instincts telling me no because I figured he will not repay me) but reluctantly decided to go ahead and lend him the money because he cried and seemed so desperate as he begged and begged. I knew he was manipulating me but oh, well, I hated to see him so upset. Well, it's now September and of course he hasn't paid me. I am just figuring I should just ''eat it'' and chalk it up as experience. I'm actually embarrassed for him that he hasn't paid me as I'm the type of person who immediately pays my bills. Unfortunatley, it's awkward now when we see each other at work as the air is tense but I don't bring up the subject waiting to see what he'll do. Anytime he sees me, he always brings it up but doesn't pay up. Don't really know what to do...it's uncomfortable. anon

There's an old saying that if you want to see less of someone, lend them money. It sounds as if there's something else going on that your ''friend'' hasn't told you. Is he a compulsive shopper or gambler? Has a credit-card company increased his interest rate to usurius levels? Does he need credit counseling? Is he trying to impress another woman with expensive jewelry? Lender

Best friend's questionable moneymaking scheme

Hello BPN! I am conflicted about my friendship with my childhood best friend. We have known each other for over 20 years which accounts for 2/3 of my life! We were true best friends, did everything together from elem thru high school. I moved away for college and have just moved back to town. We'd see each other at least around the holidays and talk every month or so.

Since moving back, there have been some ''transition'' issues, mostly seeing each other more often and realizing how different we are, but mostly non-issues that we both can handle.

More recently, however, she has become involved with a financial company - World Financial Group (WFG), thru her cousin (who I also know from childhood, not the most honest fellow). After asking a few basic questions about the types of life insurance he was hyping up to her (variable universal life), I realized he was blowing smoke. I did a little research and found out the company doesn't have the best reputation, they use multi-level marketing to gain clients (friend abuse i would say) and their associates basically get kickbacks for the referrals (like Amway).

I shared all my research with her and she read it, but still believed her cousin's pitch. I think she just saw dollar signs and that because he was so ''knowledgable'' about financial matters that he would share his ''secrets'' with her and her friends and family. I sat w/ him for a half hour and he backpeddled every time I asked a tough question, no secrets, he was just a fast talking salesman.

Anyhow, I hoped it would pass, I pleaded with her to do more outside resarch, but she has only become more involved. She even has her mother in law in the ''group'' and she is actually going to put real money into one of these lame life insurance plans. She was just wasting her time, but her mother in law can potentially lose lots of money. (my dad has sold life insurance for over 25 years and explained how these work in detail)

I feel very upset by the situation. I have tried to ignore it and have a rule (to myself) to not say anything about it anymore, but she keeps bringing it up because it's such a part of her life now. I have tried to recategorize her in my mind as a sister, since you don't choose family but you do choose friends, and it helps but i'm so annoyed (aside from the ethcial problems i have w/ the situation). I don't have a lot of friends in the area yet so I am also low on options there. What do I do? lonely and concerned

I was appalled, people plunked down $5,000 for software. It was hard to stomach; people maxed out credit cards just to pay for the crapy software. Think! 100 people spending $5,000... It's a huge amount of money these people are making.

Now I'm no savvy investor, but when we I returned home I did a Google search for the software/company and found web site after web site with the words complete rip off - stay away - invents if only you want to loose money. Several sites gave details on how the company makes money and you don't. On the "how risky is the foreign exchange market"? It's right around winning at Keno or hitting the big jackpot on a slot machine.

I hate it, but I have lost my friendship with my friend over this. No amount of evidence I produce for him will convince him otherwise. He think's I'm a fool for not investing. As I'm sure you've learned, you have a better chance at making money gambling then with the scheme you friend is offering you. I'm sure you know you will lose ALL your money with your friend's scheme.

Thanks for sharing your story with me, I needed a reality check.

My advice.... Is your friendship more important to you then money, invest. If money is hard to come by, more important to you and your family then lost a friend.

I think you would be happier giving the money to a charity then knowing some SOB is partying with your money.

Avoiding the topic doesn't work with this friend. He believes and I don't. I've tried to educate him and that's about all I can do. (You can lead a horse to water....) It's frustrating.

What's tragic is he is working harder then ever before and not getting ahead financially. As for the mother-in-law - If what you think what these guys are doing is illegal, contact law enforcement. You could try to educate the woman, but now you are butting in on family - You'll be the "bad guy" In a few years they will say, "You know you were right, I should have listed to you." Maybe then your friendship will bloom again.

My friend hasn't made millions. The software these clowns are hawking is now on TV - Christian channels. They use lines like "You have to believe you can become rich". And "You have to believe this system will work for you". Oh my god Anon

World Financial Group is most definitely a multi-level marketing (MLM)scheme. They pretend to have a ''support'' network. They must, because they mostly make money on new recruits.

Say no once firmly. If your friend persists, tell her that you need to take a break from her if she will only talk about WFG.

Good luck with this. MLM's don't make friends. MLM make money for those on the top Anon

An acquaintance of mine became involved with this group and tried to get me involved. Some basic research revealed immediately that this was something that I was not interested in. First of all, this person wouldn't tell me much about it.

He just pushed for me to come to a meeting at his home. Then he kept calling me. He even asked another friend to ask me to come. At that point I called him and told him that I was just not interested. I also have a problem with the semi-legal status of these types of businesses and want nothing to do with them.

But about your friend; realize that people change. You did and she did too. (Why do you think so many marriages fail? And these couples LIVED together!) Being apart and having your own lives will change you. Though your lives alligned when you were younger, they obviously don't any longer. You already came up with a solution yourself. Find other friends! Join a sports club of some sort or anything else that will put you in contact with other people. Before you know it this will just be a somewhat bad memory JOJ

For problem #1: I really believe in ''make new friends but keep the old''. It's probably selfishness on my part: those old friends are a pretty big slice of my past, and my past is part of who I am, so I want to keep connected to it if I can. For me it's like hanging on to old photos and mementos. You don't look at them every day but it's a great pleasure when you do. So I grew up in Alabama and some of my old friends are way, way more conservative in *every* way than I am. When they come to visit me, honestly they look like they came from another planet. And you wouldn't believe some of the email they send me around election time. But I either ignore it, or joke about it, and they do the same with me and my liberal notions. We all know which topics not to bring up, and where the shut-up-now line is. When we get together, not often but we do, we have fun. There is nothing more relaxing and comforting than spending time with someone you have known for a long time, who knows about all the events in your life that got you to where you are now. The more years I've accumulated, the more important this has gotten. So I just hit the delete key when the Hate Hillary chain-mail comes in, and look forward to the next get-together.

Now #2: a good 2/3 of my immediate family believe very fervently in get-rich-quick schemes. None of them are rich and never will be, but they are all very happy and optimistic, so that is why they keep making the same mistakes over and over in the belief that one day they will actually hit the jackpot. There are few multi-level marketing type schemes that have not been proposed to me by a sister or a cousin or a nephew. My mother regularly invites me to attend this ''free'' seminar or take advantage of that ''free'' hotel offer. I learned a while back that they do not listen to reason. Also, that they never, ever stop believing.

It's part of their DNA. So why beat my head against the wall? I just say ''that sounds like fun but I have so much work to do I just can't make it.'' Or, ''Gosh we just don't have the money'' or ''I just really need to stick with the cosmetics and bath products I use now'' They are all *always* surprised that I do not want to take advantage of all these wonderful opportunities. They just want to help. So they keep coming back with more. I try to view is as just another one of those irritating things that you have to put up with when you are part of a family. G