Friend's destination wedding - do I have to go?

I'm in a sticky situation, and I hope you all can give me some advice. My best friend and her boyfriend are talking about getting engaged and she has discussed wanting to have a destination wedding in Hawaii, possibly this winter. She has repeatedly asked me if I could come and although I said yes once, I have beyond that been pretty evasive. I don't want to string her along, but in reality I really don't want to go. I looked up trips to Hawaii, and it would cost minimum $1,000 for flight and hotel for only two and a half days. Adding in food and misc costs, I could easily spend $1,500 to go to this wedding. My husband and I are ok financially and technically I could afford it (and she knows this), but we have made a recent commitment to start saving for a potential baby, and that is very important to us. Honestly, the whole situation with her choosing a destination wedding leaves me pretty upset in that I feel forced to spend money to go somewhere and do something I really don't want to.

To make things more complicated, my friend and I both went to another friend's destination wedding in St. Thomas last summer and I'm afraid she would be hurt that I went to another friend's destination wedding but not hers. She is very sensitive and my closest friend, and I don't want to ruin this friendship. Should I just bite the bullet and go to her wedding because she is my best friend? If not, what can I say to her without damaging our friendship? conflicted maid of honor

I'm in one of my oldest friend's black tie wedding this summer in the Hamptons (they live in CA, but all their family is back east). So we're paying for flights for my whole family, hotels, car rental, the dress, shoes, tux, etc. etc...it's a hunk of change and yes, there is a huge list of things we should spend that $$$ on. However, she's my best friend and so I am putting on that satin floor- length lavender mermaid dress in 100 degree heat & I'm going to suck it up, because I love her. When I got married 2 years, she was there for me (though she was broke and in the middle of a break-up, etc.) and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Also, I completely understand the resentment over her planning a wedding in an expensive, exotic place, but it is her wedding, her day, and hopefully this will be her one and only marriage ceremony. Every woman needs a best friend

I felt compelled to reply with a post to you because I was the maid of honor in a wedding with a best friend and we're not even friends anymore. We had a big falling out and we don't even speak anymore. Also, I was a bridesmaid for another best friend and after kids we have totally lost touch. I guess what I'm saying is, in the end it is your decision and you should not have regrets about it. Follow your gut.

It would be a sad situation if you spent the money against your better judgement and then didn't have a good attitude about it and couldn't be there 100% for your friend. That would be a lose-lose for everyone. Be honest with your closest friend. She might react, but then again she might surprise you with an understanding response. good luck!

But your situation is different. Maid of Honor? Oh dear, that would be hard to back out of without sending a very strong message. And you just went to St. Thomas? Oh dear. Precedent. I think if I were in your shoes, I'd bite the bullet and go.

Why? Because weddings are symbolic as well as logistical. Your friend set the bar pretty high in the logistics department. But it's the symbolic that will last you both a life time. Act the way you want to be remembered. anonymous

Personally, I believe in following your gut with regard to money. It sounds like you might have enough money in the bank for the trip, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have enough money for childcare until school, afterschool care, college, retirement, etc. If you actually have money for all that and you just don't feel like going, part of me thinks you should just go for the friendship. (but that's a pretty big threshold and part of me doesn't think so) Being ''conventional'' is putting a lot of people in less than ideal financial situations.

And I think that you'd have to explain why things are different for you now than they were a year ago. And I think it would be nice to host some kind of party for her here (bridal shower or a bachelorette etc) And give a nice gift.

For me, It would be pretty awkward to say these things if I wasn't also following a generally frugal path in other ways. .good luck. not a fan of convention

If you hedge around and let her think you can go b/c you have no backbone to tell the truth to YOUR FRIEND, and then she decides to have it there , you have only yourself to blame when she's pissed off later. hello honesty?

I would tell your friend that you and your husband are going to start trying for a baby and since you don't know what the future holds, you can't commit to going to her destination wedding. Anon

And for comparison and context: one of my close friends and her soon-to-be fiance came to my destination wedding abroad; 18 months later I did not go to her wedding across the U.S. -- because it was the morning after my grad school graduation, my parents had flown in from another country to be with me, and I had an 8-month- old baby. But still, I think that decision -- she was kind of sad and annoyed -- was a bit of a death blow to the friendship. We didn't have a falling out of any sort, but she faded away and I did too and now we're basically no longer in touch. And it's really too bad, because she and her husband were great friends of ours.

So, yes, you'll probably get replies telling you your friend needs to toughen up, but if you want to keep the friendship, go.

How much flexibility do you have on vacation time? Can you get airline tickets on hotwire.com? Can you fly in or out on a cheaper day? Do you have to stay at the wedding hotel? (I'm assuming it's a pricey one and that jacks up your cost estimate). There are a lot of ways to squeeze more out of a destination wedding trip. Been there and regrettably didn't do it

Should you skip the wedding and alienate your friend by your coldness & rather lame excuses, or go grumpily, pretending to be happy for her, inside seething at how selfish she is and how hard it's going to be to have a baby?

I'd say skip both options if your goal is keeping this friend. Ordinarily I would just say, she's your friend, so be honest and say you can't afford it. But your posting hints that there is something else going on with you, and you should sort that out ASAP first.

--You don't want to go because you want to start saving for a baby but it's not as if you have to choose between the wedding and the baby, is it? Is the wedding that significant a roadblock to your own plans?

--You went to another, more expensive destination wedding but it's not clear why that one was fine with you and this one is not. And you know your friend will think that, too.

So I have the impression you're upset about something beyond the destination wedding. Write it and sort it out as best as possible, then be honest with your friend, and soon.

P.S. We have been to 2 destination events in Hawaii when we were completely broke & unemployed. Totally worth it, IMHO. --No Complaints

That being said, this is your closest friend and that really makes it difficult. I don't think I would be able to go through all the planning and wedding discussions with her, much less the actual wedding, without being resentful. I would talk to her about my feelings in the most sensitive way possible. There is a Buddhist rule for right speech - is it true, is it kind, and is it necessary. Using these three factors - is it necessary to talk to her about this to keep your friendship honest and free from resentment? If so, talk to her in a way that is honest and kind (to yourself and her).

The short answer is (IMHO) - no, you don't have to go, but whatever you do, do it in a way that honors your friendship and your own feelings.

Good Luck. Antidestination wedding

My husband's business partner had an out of the country destination wedding at a very expensive resort. We spent more than $2,500 on plane tickets, 4 nights at the resort, meals, etc. Not to mention, in our case, we had to arrange childcare for our son for several days, which was no small feat (in the end, we had to fly my mom out and she looked after him in our house).

I was resentful of being put in this situation, even though we could afford it, because I felt like we were obligated to attend and that they were dictating to us how to spend our money! Not attending simply wasn't an option given the professional connection that my husband had to his partner. With the possible exception of my best friend or a close relative, as a rule, I would never attend a destination wedding. And if it was someone I was close to, I would attend only begrudgingly, again not wanting to feel forced into paying a lot of money to see my friend get married.

But in your situation, as this is your best friend, I feel like you really should attend if you can swing it financially AND if you care about keeping this person in your life. Not going will hurt your friendship. If it was anyone but a best friend or close relative, I would completely support you not attending. (I also say this because you referenced going to another friend's wedding last year in St Thomas.)

My final advice to people who think destination weddings are cool: please be more considerate to your guests. Even those who can afford to go, might be saving for something else or may wish to go somewhere else. You will almost certainly cause resentment among some friends and family, even if they don't show it. Been there, done that

So you say that your friend has asked you repeatedly about this wedding. Seems to me that she is trying to get at the truth, and you are withholding it. Your friendship is being hurt by the lack of honesty. If you can't be honest with her about it, are you really friends? Just tell her the truth. Due to budget considerations, you prefer not to go on an expensive trip. If that damages your friendship, there is something wrong with the relationship. anon

This may put it into perspective: we are going to a wedding in my husband's family this summer. It is in the mainland US, not a destination wedding, but in another city because that's where the bride's family lives. So, not ''selfish'' in terms of location, but still far away and expensive. We will probably spend at least as much as you will to go to Hawaii. My point is, you might have spent that much to go to her or other friends'/family members' weddings if they were in other cities. But we are paying it, and temporarily postponing other financial priorities, because it is family and we need to be there. Again, the list of people we would spend this much money on is not long, but when the time comes, we need to spend it.

One issue though: it's a bit concerning that you're not able to talk to her about this directly. Why is she your best friend if you can't confide in her, or at least ask her more questions about her plans? If she's not even engaged yet, nothing is finalized about the wedding plans. You should at least try to have an open conversation with her if you can. (How set is Hawaii? Why Hawaii? How many guests does she expect to have? What role would you play, if any?)

Saving money (for your future child) is a worthy goal, but so is maintaining adult relationships that you'll rely on for the rest of your life. Friend

But I will tell you that I go to Hawaii often and do not spend the amounts you are speaking of...but it is still cash out the door.

I have fare alerts set up with travel websites and buy my tickets when I get an airfare alert below $350 RT. Or I use Priceline which I love and bid about $250-$300 RT.

Second. I either use priceline for my hotels ($90 a night waterfront 3* hotels) or ($70 not waterfront 3 or 4*). These are the rates I typically get....

Or I use VRBO and rent a condo or apt. for much less. My last trip to Maui I stayed one block from the beach in a master bedroom suite for $65 a night. Basically it was a vacation beach house split into two apartments with separate parking and entrances. The room also had a mini fridge and microwave and king bed with access use of nice backyard and BBQ.

So for me and my husband we had a 4 night trip to Hawaii for about $1000 total.

If you have never tried Priceline, check the website Biddingfortravel which trains people how to use Priceline if they are timid about trying it.

I could not have traveled to Europe twice and Australia twice without Priceline. Myst

I had a destination wedding, but didn't tell anyone until I got home (we eloped). Maybe you could convince her to do the same. We liked the intimacy of our wedding being only about us. But I know others choose destination weddings for the exclusivity, knowing that only the people they are closest to will attend. That makes your attendance all the more important.

I say this as someone in my early forties, who has slowly drifted away from my closest friends. Marriage, babies, being on the other side of the country, all have taken a toll on my friendships. We still speak on the phone, but we don't have the freedom to just hop on a plane and do something impulsive and life-changing together like in our 20s. This time of your life is special. Spend your money with your girlfriends while you can. There will be plenty of time to spend it on babies.

I have a friend who hopped on a plane to come visit me and cheer me up when she heard I had broken up with my college boyfriend. That was expensive for her at the time, but it was the most generous thing anybody has ever done for me and pulled me out of a dark place. She will forever be someone I consider my truest friend, even though I hardly see her anymore. The money she spent on that trip is a gift I will carry the rest of my life! (plus she brought me a gift, which was so not needed, because to me SHE was the gift) So yes, sometimes a trip is more than a trip, and you might not know at the time how important it is. anon

Yes, of course you have to go. And you have to enjoy yourself. You can go to Hawaii on vacation this year, what a great thing to do to support your best friend. Seriously, I hope she doesn't read this.

You'll have fun, come on. Do some bargain hunting for flights and places to stay. You CAN do it for less than $1500.

Are you this way with all your friends? No, just with your best friend, right?

If you genuinely think the $1K or $1.5 K is going to kill your opportunity to save for a baby, you might as well shoot yourself now, because you'll need to have a vacation after the baby too. And honestly, you'll have more fun with it now, pre-baby. Seriously. I suppose you can ask her if she really wants to have it in Hawaii, if she is your best friend. Or if you're really her best friend (do I sound doubtful?), you could tell her that of course you will go to her wedding. You would rather go to her wedding here in California, but you will go and have a great time, and you're wondering why you spent that money on that other friend in St. THomas, you would have skipped that had you known that your best friend was about to get married in Hawaii. Your best friend wants you there. Figure out a way to be there.

I also think you can travel for less money and go to the weddign but also save some moeny. I'm pretty sure you can get a ticket for about $250-$300 if you get it well in advance (I just traveled Honolulu San Francisco in March for $360, but only bought 2 weeks ahead of time). If you sign up with Hawaiian airlines, they send you offers all the time. You can also stay at a decent hotel like Queen Kapiolani at the end of Waikiki (a little more quiet than in the center of Waikiki) for about $100 or if you want to stay in a less crowded place, you can go to the Windwards side and stay in a vrbo. There are places for couples starting at 99p/n too. So, the total for flight and hotel could be about $500 for 2 nights, and then try to be conservative with the meals and miscellaneous spending. If you go to a vrbo that sleeps 4 with another couple and has a kitchen, you may be able to stay within a $700-$750 budget for your whole trip... If you go this route remember to bring your Safeway card (the other supermarkets, Foodland and Times, are local).

You may also want to stay 2 more days and make a vacation out of this, Waikiki is a busy place (I still like it, though, the waves are awesome for newbie surfers), but there are awesome places to visit in Oahu (Turtle Bay, Kailua, Sandy Beach, North Shore/Haleiwa, the Botanical Garden in Kaneohe... and in Honolulu there are cool places to go like the Bishop Museum, Shangri-La,and the museum of Modern Art). Good luck! Hawaii lover

If you bluntly say you need to save money for your hypothetical baby, she will be hurt that you are choosing a nonexistent person over her (which you are, of course). It sounds to me like you may not value this friendship as much as you once did, which is okay... people change. Just realize if you don't go, the friendship will likely be over. Personally, I would go, stay longer, and make it my annual vacation. What's so bad about an excuse to go to Hawaii?! I WANT to be invited to a destination wedding!

to all the haters of destination weddings, i had one because my hubby and i lived in two different cities (LA and SF bay) while our families lived near sacramento area and NY, with my brother in chicago. since at least half the family and friends had to travel anyway, we decided to have a destination wedding in hawaii. we also specifically stated in the invitation that we understood if they couldn't come. we did not want anyone to experience huge financial burdens.

i asked my closest female friend to perform the ceremony, and she was happy to do it. (i played the piano at hers, btw.) besides not alerting people in advance far enough, i unfortunately booked our wedding during peak travel time, so the flight cost was outrageous. since making a family vacation for 4 out of the wedding was expensive for her esp when her family was in hawaii the year before, she decided that only she'd fly out for a few days. (btw, they're financially successful.) i told her that while i truly appreciate her effort to be at the wedding, i do not want my wedding to be a burden on her in anyway. given that she's one of my best friends, why would i ever want to inconvenience her so much? so i ended up talking her out of coming, and my hubby's sister performed the ceremony instead.

our wedding had maybe 35 people, most of them family members. yes, it was inconvenient and expensive for attendees, and i faced lots of grumbles. however, everyone ultimately had an awesome hawaiian vacation on many levels that i won't get into here. sure, maybe it would've been nicer if a few more of our best friends made it, but a wedding is really a family affair while many guests are there for obligatory reasons. (be honest - i know many of you moaned about having to attend another wedding.)

if your friendship is as strong as your claim, you should be able to speak to her honestly about your hesitations. i guess there's a chance that she's in full bridezilla mode, but if your friendship ended by this episode, perhaps you two weren't as close and solid as you assumed. if you're willing to suck it up and go, enjoy it but don't be resentful. make a fun vacation out of it. otherwise, talk to her. quickly. - aloha bride

That said, you MUST be honest with your friend about your hesitation. It's a lot of money to spend and while you will bite the bullet if she insists on destination wedding, if most of her family and friends are in one place, and she cares about having them at the wedding then she think about this. Been there

Wedding invitation doesn't mention my husband or child

I recently received a wedding invitation from a good friend/ex coworker. She had mentioned in the past how hard it was to think about who she could invite due to financial concerns. My question is the invitation was addressed to me only, I do have a husband and child so does this exclude them? I'm fine with it one way or the other because I certainly don't want to stress her out financially. I'm just not sure about the rules of the invitation and I don't want to ask her because I don't want her to feel uncomfortable. Help!

Invited to the shower, but probably not to the wedding

I was very recently invited to a wedding shower for a woman who I know, like and admire, but we're definitely not yet ''friends''. I was invited by someone who works for her. The bride-to-be founded and directs a non-profit for which I've been doing a bit of volunteer work. Being clueless about wedding showers, except for a couple I attended in my early 20's (eons ago), I looked up online the etiquette behind them and saw freqeuntly mentioned that they're really for folks who will most likely be invited to the wedding. Well I know I won't be invited to the wedding and I have absolutely no problem with that at all. The primary reason I declined was that I didn't want to feel awkward as I really don't yet feel part of that social circle and I didn't want her to feel awkward as we're not friends. No doubt this probably sounds pretty neurotic and I'm definitely feeling that way about it, besides being on the shy side. What would others have done? Kind of second-guessing myself.

Should I invite my estranged family to my wedding?

I have experienced physical, emotional, and verbal abuse since I was young. This was mostly carried out by my two alcoholic stepfathers, however my mother is also responsible. These stepfathers are out of the picture now but my mother and sister are the issue here.

Last year, my younger sister (20), who is unemployed and high school educated, moved in with her boyfriend of 4 months. She showed no sense of responsibility (drinking herself to sickness, drugs, leaving home for days without notice, driving without a license, and accruing $200+ phone bills for my mother to pay, etc.). A few months later she became pregnant and married a week later.

When I expressed concern over my sister’s situation (alcohol & drugs a month prior to becoming pregnant), my mother only questioned why I wasn’t married yet (I am 27). My mother had me at a very young age (followed by 5 other kids, poverty, abuse, etc.) and I am concerned that my sister is repeating the cycle. I am a college graduate with a stable income, yet my mother said I was “not nothing” compared to my sister’s decisions. I tried for years to get along with my family but it is simply not worth the pain. I separated myself from them in order to keep my sanity and have been much happier as a result.

I don’t want to invite my family to my wedding. They have not made a positive contribution to my life and I see no reason for them to be present on my special day. However, my future father-in-law strongly advised me to not ‘close any doors’. My fiancée’s parents would like to meet my family, even if just once (my fiancée’s has a big family and they are very family- oriented). I have shared with them the abuse that has occurred and my reasoning behind not inviting them but they still insist that I give it more thought. I have a lot of respect for my future in-laws and so their opinions hold a lot of weight for me. While they have told me they will respect whatever choice I make, I feel very pressured to do as they suggest.

And, if I don’t invite my family, I’m afraid I’ll be asked where my family is on my wedding day. How do I deal with this question (which is a complicated and painful topic) without it spoiling my day? anon

I was upset at an aunt during my wedding planning and got very pissy about her attitude possibly ruining ''my day'' but in the end she could not have ruined my day if she tried -- it is such a busy day and when you are surrounded by people you love all the BS just slips away. Really. I'm glad I didn't do anything drastic like uninvite her (I was tempted to). My sister's friend uninvited a mutual lifelong friend of theirs because of who knows what (''don't want her to ruin MY day!'') and she really regrets it and she realizes that she was just swept up in the stressful throes of wedding planning which magnified everything 10-fold.

This is not to minimize all that you have suffered. You have some major wounds and your mom's reaction to your sister's pregnancy? Priceless. But I agree with your future father-in-law -- do not close any doors. People can change. Your sister may get her act together five years from now and want to have a relationship with you in the future. Unfortunately, exclusion from once-in-lifetime events is hard to get over. If you exclude your mom and sister then you should consider that door 99.9% officially closed. Not sure if you really want that. Good luck! Tries to see the big picture

Ultimately, my parents didn't come to my wedding, and it was a great time. Months later, we we able to have the very serious talks, etc. that we needed to heal and have begun to rebuild a new relationship. Why don't you set up another occasion in advance of the wedding to allow your future in-laws to meet your family (not a good idea to have such an important day be their first meeting)? That way you can use it as a test run. But make it clear to everyone in advance that you will be the one to ultimately decide whether or not your family attends. I did a lot of soul-searching and excessive prayer over this issue before I reached my decision. My father-in-law later realized that I know my parents better than he does and that my way was best. Yours will, too. Best of luck no matter what you decided - and I'll keep you in my prayers Been there

If your future in-laws could discretely share that your family won't be there because your history with them would make the celebration more difficult, you shouldn't get too many questions (your friends already know, right?) You have a right to have your wedding reflect who you are, who you choose to be, and how you are choosing to plan your future. I know the sense of obligation pulls hard on people during these critical events, but in modern society, weddings are no longer about the families exchanging property and making ties--they are about the couple, how they have chosen one another, and a celebration of the commitment the two are making to one another. ANY suggestion about your wedding celebration that doesn't contribute to that in a positive way should be eyed with suspicion. You have a right to draw a line across this point in time and say, ''This is who I am and how I choose to live.'' Surround yourself with people who support that. --Making future family count

The thing is, who you do and don't invite to a wedding has the tendency to polarize all relationships. It makes the people you invite feel extra close to you, and those you don't invite feel extra estranged. Therefore, the result of not inviting your family will be to cement the distance between you (which you might want to do) and the result of inviting them is that you leave the door open. There may be a wedding miracle that opens everyone's hearts, or even if it just goes OK, inviting them doesn't cause further alienation. Elon Bartlett D.C. elonb@pacbell.net

One solution would be to have a frank sit-down discussion beforehand with your in-laws about your concerns, and together work up a short answer ready to use when wedding guests and friends ask that tiresome question, ''And where is YOUR family today?'' For example, everyone in the family goup can be prepared to say ''Oh yes, we are also so sorry they couldn't make it, but we hope to see them soon.'' Then change the subject by suggesting a glass of champagne, or some other diversion.

Hope you enjoy your wedding! Don't let anyone talk you into something you don't want. It's your day. anonymous

My wife wasn't included in my brother's wedding party

My brother is getting married this summer and I'm in the wedding party, along with my Dad and my sister's husband. My brother's wife-to-be has included my sister in the wedding party, but not my wife (her future sister in law). While my brother and his fiance have a closer relationship with my sister and her husband than we do, our relationship is solid and I can't for the life of me understand the snub, but need to find out. My question is, how do I confront my brother on this? Is it okay to leave a future sister-in-law out of the equation, but include a future brother-in-law? I don't want to force him to include my wife, but he does need to understand how disrespectful their decision is to us(unless of course, there is a legitimate reason, which I can't see). anon

PS-The fact that you have chosen to see this as disrespectful makes me wonder if you don't have other unspoken business with your brother. I see no disrespect whatsoever in it. The disrespect would be if you were to make a big deal about it and put a dark cloud over their wedding day. If your wife really wants to support/contribute to that day, then maybe you could say ''hey I would love to think of a way that [my wife] could help out on your wedding day, because she would love to be included and to support you both.'' But if you express a sense of entitlement to her being included in the wedding party I think you are way off base. Family is forever

Short answer: it is your brother's fiancee's (and your brother's) wedding. She should be thinking of who SHE is close to, who SHE wants to stand by her side. YOUR fiancee is not technically even a relative of hers at this point. There is basically no reason on God's green earth why your fiancee should be in her wedding party (other than real feelings of closeness). Period.

IMHO you should be very leery of getting in the middle of something like this, particularly now, before anybody's even married! This type of thing sets a precedent for everybody starting out offended at one another! You don't want to live in one another's house or on one another's lap. Let your brother and sister in law plan their marriage in peace, for heaven's sake! Nobody owes your fiancee anything. This isn't her wedding. Nobody has to bow to her, include her as a ''specially close person,'' or so forth. This event is NOT ABOUT HER. You should both go to the wedding, give them your love, and hope that they have a productive, happy, and healthy life. And you know what? Your fiancee doesn't have to have her new sister in law in her wedding party! Or, if she wants to get awards for generosity and diplomacy at HER WEDDING, she can. Whatever.

Catch this stuff now, or your marriage will consist of YEARS of ''she didn't do this and should have's'' and you, my friend, will be utterly miserable. seen a lot of weddings

While I empathize with your wife's desire to be in the wedding because some people interprete being in a wedding as a person's ''importance'' to the marrying couple, it's ultimately their wedding. It's not a snub, and yes it's okay to leave a future sister-in-law out of the equation, but include a future brother-in-law.

And you don't need to confront your brother. Instead just ask ''say, my wife had hoped to be included in your wedding party'' and see what he says. Maybe your wife can fulfill another important and honorable roll in the wedding: usher, wedding day coordinator (which is actually a huge help), etc. anon

If this doesn't help, then just bring it up to your brother. Everyone always says this is the bride's day, but it is in fact the groom's as well (just ask my husband). Be honest with him and just tell him how you feel. At least you'll know then what their reasons were for not including your wife. In both instances my husband did include me at the rehearsal dinner. It worked out, no awful bridesmaid dresses and a free meal! Left out and loving it

I was in a similar position... when I got married, I asked my husband's sister (with whom I had zero-relationship) to be in the wedding, yet I did not ask my sister's husband (with whom I had a great, 12-year relationship). The only reason was because of numbers--we already had all of the ''positions'' filled, with other family members and close friends. When I mentioned to my sister that I was sorry we didn't really have anything for her husband to do in the wedding, she said something like, ''oh, that's sweet of you to think of him, but don't worry about it, we didn't even think about it,'' and she was completely sincere. I thought that was the nicest, and most supportive thing she could have said. You have to remember that your brother and his fiancee have a million decisions to make in planning a wedding, and it's easy to get caught up in the whirl. They may not even realize that your wife's and your feelings have been hurt. But then they shouldn't have to, because they have made their decisions based on what feels right to them. Don't spoil this for them. been there

Relax- it's their day, not your's or your wife's. Adjust your attitude, enjoy the event, give them your blessings, and let go of your resentment. Your wife can take the money that she would have spent on a dress that she didn't choose and that she would only wear for one day, and treat herself to something special! anon

If your wife is upset, perhaps SHE can go ask if there is something she can do to help with the wedding -- brides often need someone to oversee the guest book, or hand out favors -- or do something REALLY helpful, like host a shower or address invitations, etc.

I think you should let this go. If you think she's feeling slighted, you could offer to spend a few hundred bucks on a dress and shoes for her for the wedding that she might wear again someday. Good luck. Heather

Often couples are trying to have an equal number of men and women on each side of the wedding party. Sometimes a wedding party is expected to perform certain tasks in the planning of the wedding and for one reason or another that may rule some people out. There are probably a number of reasons for why they chose to ask who they did.

It is possible to play an important part in the wedding process without being involved in the wedding party. For many people planning a wedding is an extremely emotional experience with family members often making requests that add to the tension and stress. Try to be one of the few relatives who says ''How can we help- just let us know what we can do.'' and really mean it. heather

Depending on the nature of your relationship with your brother and his bride, you may be able to indicate to him or them that your wife is feeling a bit hurt by her exclusion, and see what develops. But try to be nice about it -- any couple planning their wedding is subjected to all sorts of different demands and agendas from all comers, and it's impossible to please everyone. Whatever their reasoning, what possible purpose could be served by your ''forcing'' your brother to feel bad about it?

And remember that the fact that your wife is not in the official wedding party does not mean that she'll be left out of the festivities; as your spouse, she must be invited to the same pre- wedding events you are (such as a rehearsal dinner) and included in at least some of the family photos. Many people in her position would feel rather relieved *not* to be asked -- she won't have to wear a dress she wouldn't have chosen, she won't be obligated to assist with wedding-related chores nor to co- host a shower, etc. Look on the bright side and enjoy the wedding. Holly

When we got married my husband chose to includethe people we were closest with in our wedding party, but gave other important roles in the wedding to our relatives. He chose his brothers as his groom's men because those were the men he was closest to. I chose friends to be my bride's maids, I didn't really know his sisters, and he didn't ask me to include them. When his brothers and sisters were married, he was sometimes included in the wedding party, and sometimes not. I was never a part of the wedding party. Once I was included in the ceremony in another role. Otherwise I was just a guest.

My brother is getting married this summer. His fiance felt that they had to have their siblings in the wedding party, so I was asked to be a bride's maid and he was compelled to ask her brother. This expectation caused quite a bit of consternation for him because he felt that she had chosen his groom's men for him, except for his best man, and that he would offend his friends if he chose one from among them to fill that role. My husband was not included on the list of required wedding party members, although my brother did eventually decide to ask him to be the best man.

Personally, based on all of the different variations I have seen on the theme I think that the bride and groom should make their choices on their own. Those who are chosen can be honored to be included. Those who are not chosen, should not take it personally. It is hard enough to make decisions about a wedding, without worrying about pleasing everyone on both sides of the family, and friends to boot. I also think that there are some people who feel more strongly about their family obligations than others. For the ''duty bound'' there are lots of ''shoulds'' that are considered, but not everyone thinks that way, and it is hard to remember. Try not to be offended, perhaps you could gently hint that your wife would like to be able to do something for their wedding and ask if there is a job she could do... maybe a reading. Then look on the bright side, at least she won't have to buy an aweful bride's maid dress. thankfully almost never a bride's maid

Children not Invited to out-of-town Family Wedding

My niece is getting married in suburban New York in Sept. Enthusiastic about attending another family wedding with our 3 and 5 year old girls (my husband's brother was married last year and we and the girls had a ball at his wedding) and also about visiting NYC where my husband and I lived for over a decade, we made plans to attend - plane tickets, hotel reservations (through Expedia so not refundable). Now we find out that the children are not invited - via e-mail my sister indicated that only older children were invited as it is an evening (6:15) wedding. I replied to her and her daughter that we were looking forward to attending the ceremony, but would be unable to attend the reception as the children would be with us. My neice really wants my husband and I to ''boogie'' with her and asked her mother to line up a sitter. Well, my sister did that but indicated that the children would be sequestered in the women's locker room for the duration of the reception (clearly she does not like little children!!).

My husband and I don't feel right about it and I can't promise that they won't find a way to the reception - they love to dance - which would clearly be disruptive to my sister. I am leaning toward our previous plan of just going to the ceremony, but I would also like to go the reception... Any good ideas out there. A Torn Mother/Sister

In our case, my husband's brother-in-law was having a ''no kids'' wedding and reception. When my mother-in-law informed me of this, I told her that of course I respected the couple's request, but they had to understand that I would not be traveling 3000 miles to the wedding, just so our 5yearold and 21-month old could spend the time with an unknown babysitter. They had to respect our choice, as well.

As it turned out, my husband and 5 year old attended the wedding, and the baby & I stayed home. (My MIL made a special request that our 5yo attend, and the bride/groom agreed... As it turned out, she was THE YOUNGEST attendee, but was *very* well behaved, and everyone had a wonderful time.)

In the end, this was the best solution. You may be disappointed at not ''boogie''ing with your niece, but you have to consider your children and their feelings/situation. Good luck. anon

But after I had kids, I viewed marriage as a ''life ritual'' that of course children ought to be a part of. I mistakenly assumed my children were always invited to anything I was invited to, even if their names were not on the invitation! I thought it was touching when a child injected a little noise into the ceremony, (although I would stand with mine in the back and take them out if they made noise.) But I thought it was inconsiderate of friends and family members to have a wedding and not invite the kids, considering how big a part of my life they were.

But when my kids got older, I began to appreciate the fun of going to an adult party without the kids. After all, a lot of weddings are really just big parties for grownups to have fun and celebrate the marriage. I love going to a wedding where I get to dress up, do a little dancing, etc. and how much fun am I going to have if I have to spend the whole time keeping the baby out of the cake? So now I only take the kids if they are explicitly invited and it's the wedding of someone they are close to and it's important for the bride/groom that they be there. Otherwise I treat it as an adult party. I have been to weddings where even though kids are invited, people leave theirs at home anyway so they can have an adult day/evening out. Also it occurs to me that a couple of really cute little girls in party dresses might steal the thunder from the bride a little bit, so that might be another reason to not bring them.

Therefore, I would say, use the sitter, go without the kids and have fun! Do you have a cell phone or beeper so you can tell them (or the sitter) to call if they need to talk to you while you're at the reception? Line up some special activities for them - maybe bring some new arts&crafts supplies or some other activity they can do anywhere (even the women's locker room.) They'll be fine. Ginger

Anyway, having just gone through the whole thing last year, I have to admit that I, too, didn't want small children at my ceremony. It's not because I don't love them - I do very much - but there are some events that are just not appropriate for small children, and I felt that the children wouldn't be comfortable, and the guests might not be comfortable around them, either.

It sounds like you aren't angry with her, and that's good - I would hate to see bad feelings like that spoil her wedding day. I guess the thing to remember, now, is that this is her and her husband's day, and to respect their wishes - without judgement - would be the best thing for everyone. Getting a babysitter for the evening would be money well-spent, and everyone will be more at ease. Hope this helps... Kristen

It was incredibly inconsiderate of your niece and her mother to let you make reservations before explaining the policy about kids -- that info should have been on the invitation. And ideally, your niece would recognize the inconvenience she is causing her guests, and relax the rules. At minimum, they should help you find a suitable location for the sitter to watch your children -- your hotel room? your sister's house? Any of these solutions would be better than you having to attend alone, and you could tell them so if you like, but it won't change the fact that you WANT to be there. If you''d regret missing it, then it's best not to stir things up now. Anon

Sure, it's a drag, and you wish your sister were more open-minded. But it will really be more fun for everyone if you comply with the bride's wishes.

We took our kids (then 8 and 11) cross-country to their cousin's wedding and were a bit miffed that they weren't invited to the evening party, even though some other young nephews were invited. They enjoyed the ceremony, were babysat in the evening, and don't remember being excluded at all. OK so I remember occasionally, but it's not big. Good luck M.S.

This is not a personal affront to you and your husband or to your children. In fact, the bride and groom may be thinking some parents would like a night out without their kids (many parents at our wedding took the evening as an opportunity for a romantic get away for the night). I also don't think the decision has anything to do with anyone's feelings toward children. Instead, it sounds like this is the arrangement that works best for the bride and groom, and that's who this is all about. If it was articulated to you that your kids would be sequestered, please try to remember that wedding planning is stressful and can make people act funny.

I say go, make the trip and use the sitter. Lining up the sitter demonstrates how much your neice wants you there. If you make the trip special and don't make a big deal about them not being able to go, then the kids will be fine with it. In addition, try to arrange some time with family members before and after the wedding so the little ones can be with their relatives.

Incidentally, I struggled with the same issue a year ago when planning my wedding. We wouldn't say no kids at all because my husband has two daughters and because we LOVE kids. I asked my 2 1/2 year old neice to be my flower girl. She did and stole the show. But guess what? After the ceremony, she went off with the sitter, who also took my maid of honor's one year old and 5 year old. No one worried about melt downs and the kids had a good time. Have fun! Anon

Ettiquette dictates that a wedding invitation should list all invitees. So if your chidren's names were not on the invitation, they were not invited. I don't think you can fault your niece for that. I have never seen a wedding invitation that says explicitly ''no kids.'' I think THAT would be poor etiquette.

I'm a mom now and I generally don't plan to bring my child to weddings. You can't depend on a child aged 3 to be quiet during a ceremony, or hold still during a sit-down dinner. Perhaps the child would enjoy the dancing, but my experience has been that the music is generally too loud and the dance floor too crowded for their safety.

Enjoy the grown-up only event as a grown-up and don't be mean to the bride about your own dissatisfactions. It's not about you or your kids, and she has enough to worry about. mom

Incidentally, I was surprised how many parents have volunteered to leave their young ones at home in favor of a date night out. A bride and groom who could care less about being upstaged!

First of all, we are talking of a wedding, not a business luncheon. It is a family gathering, because a new person gets admitted to your family; two families get together to become one extended family. There is no way children can be deliberately excluded!

Are we talking about inconvenience? Children making noises during the ceremony? What about the elderly people with shaky hands or relatives whose wheelchair makes unpleasant noises? Would you exclude them too? A little girl stealing attention from the bride? You people watch too much TV! It's not about images, for heaven's sake - the meaning and beauty of a wedding is way more profound than this.

It is just crazy to commercialize everything in the popular culture. Children are not property or pets, and so it is profoundly wrong to ever say ''no chilren allowed''. Not at a family celebration! You don't make them a part of your family life now, and you'll find yourself in a retirement place, not a home when they make their choices later. They'll discard you then just the same way you discard them now: because you occasionally make unpleasant noises.

Now, I do not advocate mandatory participation of children in all family weddings, but the chilren's parents are the only ones qualified to make this choice regarding their children's attendance. Simply because these children are part of them.

Don't think you can do it just because your children won't even notice. They'll get the message all right. I was once excluded from a big family event when I was a child. I did not understand it at the time, but was deeply offended when I analysed the situation a few years later. It's been hurting for 20 years now, and I could never again relate to the person who initiated this. . .

Your sister will still be your sister after all, did I mention? She stands for her daughter's whims. But who will stand for your children's feelings? It's your call! MK

I was also very glad to see the remarks about guests who insist on bringing their latest flames. (Long-time companions are a different matter.) Weddings are not cocktail parties. (Incidentally, for intelligent advice about weddings, see almost any of Miss Manner's books: fascinating bedside stuff, especially if you enjoy reading about the depths to which humans can sink in their quest for ego gratification, status, and gifts.) Melanie