Normal? Permanent? Loss of libido at 44

I have been embarrassed about this, but after the poop question, the erection question, and the fertility question, I decided to ask. I am 44 and have normal periods still, but have a decreased libido which, when I look back, has been very gradually decreasing for 3-4 years. The only other thing is waking up 2 hours after I fall asleep. I'm not an insomniac, I can get myself back to sleep - it really feels like a physical thing. Also intercourse is somewhat less comfortable. I know these things probably add up to hormonal, pre-menopausal changes. I'm not having any marriage/relationship problems currently.

But this is very distressing to me because I'm not ready to give up enjoying sex! If this is how it is, it's a huge loss! I have all the kids I need, no problem there. I was feeling relieved and happy with each passing year because I assume it is increasingly difficult to get pregnant now and we can have unprotected sex finally! But must women only be capable of fully enjoying it when there's a risk of pregnancy!? If so, this is not fair. Nobody told me these things would happen before any obvious menstrual change.

I tried talking to my doctor, totally fruitless and embarrasing. She asked me about orgasms and libido then looked at me like I was crazy and asked me to repeat what I had just said and give examples, then said, ''Like, what do you mean?'' again, until I finally said nevermind. I had felt ashamed already because women not in their sexual prime are I feel considered ugly by the culture anyway, then after that doctor I felt and still feel something must be wrong with me.

My questions are: Is this normal? Is this definitely related to menopause? Is this permanent? And does anybody out there know anything about bio-identical hormones, OTC or Rx. I've done a lot of reading and the key seems to be to find a doctor who specializes. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Anon

I think you are right - this is a perimenopausal phenomenon that is very gradual. Most of us don't have the time to go to the bathroom on our own, much less spend time thinking about how we might improve our sex lives, but I do think some things can help. One, is to think about sex more. Read racy stuff. Watch racy stuff (doesn't do it for me, but it does for lots.) Make dates. My husband and I met one night a week with a personal trainer and then had dinner together and that helped a bit. We have been married for 21 years, so to spice things up a bit, I went to www.goodvibes.com and found some fun ideas. Just talking about them was even fun and had some side benefits. Our kids are finally old enough to not need continuous supervision, so morning quickies are more frequent these days. I guess, my favorite line is from our sex therapist at my work...''sex begets sex''. The more you have, the more you realize that you like it, and the more you have. Good luck! in the same boat

Is there really such a thing as sex addiction?

Could someone please explain what exactly is sex addiction? Is there a concrete definition, or is there only a vague diagnosis? Does it actually exist, or is this a ''thought-up'' problem? Please share your stories; I have no idea. Thanks, Curious

There are a number of 12 step programs that offer help to the sex addict who is ready to receive help. One of the biggest in the Bay Area is Sex Addicts Anonymous. The national website is http://www.saa-recovery.org/ and the local website is: http://www.sfbaysaa.org/

To get an understanding of this addiction I recommend the book ''Out of the Shadows'' by Patrick Carnes. It does an excellent job of describing this addiction and is helpful to both addicts and people who care about them.

There are also a growing number of therapists who are familiar wit this addiction and can provide support. Anonymous

Happy to report I'm blissfully married to a wonderful, trustworthy man. If nothing else, I took away the knowledge that I would never put myself in that situation again.

I hope things work out for you. It's a difficult road. anon

The unique driving force behind sexual addiction is the attempt to escape the natural, healthy need for intimacy. Some people escape intimacy more than others. Some escape differently than others. But all sexually addicted people have one thing in common: To some degree, every sexually addicted person flees from intimacy and turns to fantasy to meet his or her needs for a healthy, loving intimate sexual relationship. anon

I'm 42 and I'm not interested in sex anymore

Hi all. I'm happily married, have three sons, beautiful home, good job, but of course nothing is perfect in this world. I'll be 42 in March and I'm just not interested in sex anymore. My husband is a wonderful, responsible, loving, tender man, and that's why I feel so awful. He will not press the issue when I don't want to but then I feel extremely guilty and sometimes find myself simply giving so that he doesn't feel rejected. I just don't know what's wrong with me and why I'm just not interested. I'm not depressed or anything. I'm losing weight for health benefits and I'm taking care of myself mentally but I don't know what's wrong with me that I'm not interested in the physical aspect of sex anymore. Has anyone else ever experienced this? If so, what did you do? Thanks. Wondering

SO I would suggest looking around their site and picking up something to try right away since it can (but doesn't always) take a while to ship, so then by mid-March when you can use this coupon, you'll have a better idea of what's good for you and your husband. Now everybody who doesn't want ''too much info'' can stop reading before I scar you: but as a wife who was clueless and asexual not too long ago, I know that I would have tried things out sooner if someone had shared some concrete experience with me (vs. the vague ''just explore!'' stuff I was reading). SO: these days when I think I might like to try having sex that night, I'll wear these Kegel exerciser balls during the day (that I actually bought to exercise for incontinence after having one of my babies). When hubby gets home from work I have him pull the exerciser out-- not very sexy, but it does start the giggling, which starts the hugging and ''I love you's'', which then makes the sex (even if it's just a tired quickie before bed) feel more fun and loving and less like something I'm pretty indifferent too, which is how I felt about it for a while. And my husband says it makes him feel really loved that I wear them during that day (or even just in the evening before he comes home) because he knows that I'm thinking about him while we're apart and love him enough to want us to have a happy sex life. Best of luck to you in finding what you enjoy now-- you're young yet, but still: don't expect sex to feel the same for your body or mind as it did a few years ago, and I'm sure you'll find things or even just thoughts that *will* make it better for you than it is right now, just maybe in new and different ways.

I became really irritated, lost nearly all interest in sex, and more when I went on a different birth control (the no period for three months kind). I noticed the change in my patience and mood, and boy did my husband. I immediately switched pills and noticed a huge difference. I think hormones (from pills or our own body changes) play a huge role. Please talk to your DR.

From a different perspective I can also tell you how frustrating (in more ways than one!) and painful it is to be constantly rejected by your spouse. We were in marriage counseling for a year (and now I'm going myself) to work out our childhood/marriage issues. This resulted in my husband gradually and then totally withdrawing intimacy. I can't tell you how much pain, anger and frustration this causes. I'm hoping that things will get back to normal soon but please, for the sake of your marriage, do something to get your sex life back on track. Good luck! Been There, Done That

So, I don't really agree with the implication that you are ''rejecting'' your husband from some of the other posters. You are going through what most couples go through the first year to TWO years after first giving birth. My husband and I certainly don't have much of a sex life still, after 18 months (I am still breastfeeding). When we do, though, it's great!

Perhaps there are some other ways that the two of you can ''make love'' that don't require intercourse, so that your husband can feel loved and sexually nourished (and you as well!) and you don't feel impinged or put-upon and in pain.

Best of luck Still All The Way Back In The Groove

Boyfriend doesn't want sex anymore

I am in a two-year relationship with a man ten years younger than I am (I am late thirties, he is late twenties). We have been living together for the past year, along with my elementary school-aged daughter.

At the start, our life together was wonderful: It was tender, passionate, and seemingly perfect. We felt we were really meant to be, and he moved in about a year after we began dating. At that time, however, he started avoiding having sex with me, and now we almost never have any physical contact. He does not have any erectile or medical issues--he is just anxious about sex and avoids it almost completely (we have had sex once in four months). We started counseling about five months ago, I have my a therapist, and he has his own therapist now too...but very little actual change seems to be occurring.

I have always been an intensely physical woman, and this really has me reeling. I feel rejected, unwanted, and hurt by his lack of attention. I have no intention of having an affair, but I have realized that I recently began to understand the rationalizations people make just before they ''step out'' on their partners--''my relationship is great, except...'' I don't want to cheat, and I don't want to pressure him, and I don't really want to leave him either. Does anyone out there have any experience with this kind of situation? anonymous, please

My wife is rejecting me 6 out of 7 days

I can relate to most of the posts. My wife, of over 30-years, would be perfect – except for S-E-X. We had sex more often before the kids and I can understand what kids can do to a healthy sex life. However, our kids are grown but the sex frequency is infrequent (Saturday or Sunday AM, once per week) and boring (she doesn’t like to receive or provide oral, doesn’t respond touch (not matter how gentle) and makes absolutely no sounds or requests during sex). Little things that shouldn’t matter become arguments because of sexual frustration – mine.

I don’t want to end the marriage because she’s been very loyal to me (I went through a long period of depression) and we both couldn’t survive without each other’s income – pathetic isn’t it? I’ve tried everything -- nice dinners, long walks, get away vacation, doing laundry (she doesn’t like the way I do it), I do the dishes every evening, and was a “soccer dad”.

Whenever, I suggest we need to talk, or get professional help, she says I get more than most men! I’ve suffered from low self- esteem but getting rejected 6 out of 7 days in literally killing me. Any ideas?
Desperate Husband

I had the same problem with my husband who was vey ill for 2 years. (including heart surgery) It was not until recently that we were able to rekindle our sex lives. It drove me nuts as I am only in my mid fourties. I actually started to get a wandering eye. But anyway it took awhile but he was able to gain his strength and confidence and now we are really enjoying it. Remember her lack of interest probably has nothing to do with you. Keep working on her to get her interested and keep trying to get her to see a therapist. Elf

As for the quality of your sex life, it really sounds like you two could use some counseling. If she knew that you are on the verge of leaving over this, it might jump-start her to make some changes. No outsider can know the reason for your wife's disinterest, but the fact she is still willing and able to have sex weekly speaks to her love for and committment to you Anon

I think open, caring communication is key. If you can't talk about it, you can't find common ground.

One thing that has helped in my marriage is agreeing on a mutually-acceptable level of frequency and sticking to it. Doesn't sound very sexy, but it helps avoid that awful feeling of rejection (for the person with more desire) and that awful feeling of being hounded/harassed (for the person with less desire). This needn't be a schedule, but just an understanding of how much is enough. Sounds like you all haven't had that sort of conversation yet.

Other things to talk about: where does her lack of desire come from? Fatigue? Resentment? Just plain old biology? What can you do to satisfy yourself when you are on and she isn't? What does not having sex feel like for you? What does being pressured for sex feel like for her? Are there things you can do together that are sexual and satisfying but not full on intercourse? Are there other areas of intimacy in which you are not as close as you once were? What other aspects of your relationship need to be tended to? Anon

More--many more--men get entangled in affairs than see a pro; the repercussions of affairs, when they become emotionally involved, have been well documented on this list. As someone with a very strong libido (which is never extinguished by disaffection--something i am always told is a ''male'' attitude), I can relate to the frustration of being with someone who is content with a much lower frequency or less variety of sex than you are.

Whatever those of you reading this may think of me, I'm positive I've seen more than a few husbands of happily married BPNers on a professional basis. I try to send them home feeling satisfied, desirable, and appreciative of their wives'strengths as well as their limitations. If that seems threatening to the women on this list, consider the fact that there are many, many willing women with less firm boundaries--paid and unpaid--for your husbands to avail themselves of in their search of what's ''missing'' long-term in your marriage. In my opinion, if a woman is not willing to address either the underlying problems in a marriage nor the possible psycho- or physiological reasons why she doesn't enjoy frequent sex with a husband who desires her and is committed to the marriage, then (if divorce is out of the question) you as the husband are justified in discreetly ''supplementing'' your sexual needs with other women while your wife keeps her head in the sand. An Opinionated Hooker

1) what seems like a comfortable amount of sex and frequency for you?

2) when you do have sex and both enjoy it, what is happening differently? Do you have a babysitter at those times so you're not distracted? Are there certain things that she finds more arousing than others?

3) how much general affection do you show towards one another? I have seen couples where they have a low level of affection in general, so when one person approaches another for sex, it seems like a duty more than an extension of tenderness and love that is ongoing and fluid. what is your need for affection, and what is hers?

It seems like professional help might guide you towards a solution, but without both people wanting to participate, it's somewhat difficult to have a successful outcome. Maybe she thinks that seeing a professional means there's something wrong with her, but if you think about it, people go to medical doctors all the time without shame or embarrassment. So why should seeking couples help be any different? As for ''you're lucky you're getting any sex,'' that seems like the sound of a pressured, upset person who needs some understanding and perhaps a little backing off for the time being. Just some thoughts... Lisa

Husband is upset about my lack of sex drive

My husband and I have been married almost 9 years and together for 13. We have a very good and solid marriage, lots of respect, we share the workload of household and childrearing-, and we rarely fight at all. We have a 2 1/2 year old son. I love him deeply.

The problem is sex. Since having the baby, I don't care about it, don't really notice when it's not happening. But he does- and isn't happy about it. The other night I was talking with him about how sad I was that we can't have another child-and he suddenly brings up that we don't have enough sex..again! He keeps track of how long it's been since the last time and anything but actual intercourse doesn't ''count'' as sex. Although he doesn't hound me for it, I know it's always out there. Sex night is supposed to be Tuesdays but it frequently passes without me noticing it, or me dreading it and trying to find excuses to avoid it without saying ''no'' outright.

We've talked about how I feel sex is kind of ''dirty'' now (after becoming a mom.) And how I'm embarassed to really get into it when we're having it. I hate it when he talks dirty but he still does it and I cringe with embarrassment. I like sex when we have it and I get into it(most of the time) but it often takes me a looong time to get into it and sometimes I don't want him to touch me and just have sex to make him happy. We probably have sex 1-3 times a month. I've also gained about 12 extra pounds in the last year so I don't feel sexy-even though he tells me all the time I am. I think he's very attractive-so it's not an aversion or anything like that.

I miss sex in a purely theoretical way. I know it's important to the marriage and I feel guilty that I am not making him happy in that regard. But I am just totally disinterested. I have a therapist but I'm even embarassed to talk to her about this. I've read the ''confessions of a naughty mommy' and that just made me angry-how it all just works out in the end for her. I want to want it-but I just don't.

Any suggestions for me? Has anyone else found sex to be embarassing after childbirth? How do you get over it? Do you just grin & bear it? Please-I welcome any suggestions! Anonymous

Because I got the perspective that it was not really about sex, but about touch, and about how much one person can handle before going into overload. I nursed and held my baby a lot, and she was on me a lot as she got older, but less and less as she got older. The less the kid was physically attatched/on/touching me in one way or another, the more my desire to touch and be touched w/ others came back. Your child deserves as much of you as you can possibly give him at this point, and if you still love your husband, and he you, then hopefully you both can weather this out, as it will come back. It's better to give the child what it needs now and assure your husband he is not in for a life of monkhood. If he wants to accelerate the proccess, then finding ways to have someone else take the child on a regular basis...grandma, playdates, babysitter, etc., for significant amounts of time that give you the chance to recharge and actually want ot be touched again, this will help I think. Good Luck

I do have sex sometimes when I would rather not; I used to think this was awful -- but don't we often do things we don't want to do for people we love? Likewise, my husband goes without sexual contact when he would really like it. We try to respect each other's positions, and give a little when we can.

We worked on this issue in couples therapy (difficult, but worthwhile) and also read (together) a book called Hot Monogamy that was very useful at reassuring us that our different levels of interest are A) very common and B) not insurmountable. I think that loving couples can manage this situation with good communication, kindness, and a willingness to compromise. Good luck! Low Libido
You don't say if you're breastfeeding your son or not, but breastfeeding does release hormones that dampen sex-drive. If you have not been breastfeeding for a while, than this is probably not playing a role. Either way, I strongly urge you to talk to your therapist about your embarassment about sex. Doesn't it strike you as an interesting and telling contradiction that, now that you are a mother, you see sex as ''dirty'' and embarassing--after all, you wouldn't BE a mommy without it! That says to me that there may be something else going on, something emotional-- regarding sex as dirty and embarrassing is something that is *learned*, so you can UNlearn it, as well, but you'll need your therapists help.

It may help you to think of it this way: a healthy sex-life (one that you are enjoying, too, not just going through the motions) is important to a healthy marriage, a healthy marriage is extremely important to the emotional well-being of your entire family, including your SON. Your relationship with your husband is the model that your son will follow when he grows up -- so you have a big responsibility here, what kind of example do you want to set for him?

Your therapist can help you (or, if your therapist can't, find another therapist!), please give her a chance to do that and talk to her about what is coming up for you, for your sake as well as your son's and your husband's.
anonymous

Testosterone cream for libido?

Does anyone out there have experience using testosterone cream (applied to the clitoris) to help with extremely low libido? I have a prescription from my MD but am hesitant to actually use it. Any advice (usefulness, side effects, better treatments or, ahem, how-to) would be appreciated! Signed, anon!

Have you tried Wellbutrin? A little publicized clinically studied side-effect is to enhance the female libido: http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2000/09/26/wellbutrin/index.html. I'm a guy(55), my MD prescribed it for depression and *my* sex life has reached new heights and a couple of lady friends swear it has put a new bounce in their step. I had previously gone through all the SSRIs which had a depressing effect on my libido as well as other unpleasant side-effects. It's like the difference between dialup and broadband ... Just make sure your man can keep up (hoho).

If you want technique, try Clint Arthur's New Sex Now (DVD). It has 4-5 star rating at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008OE4V/qid=1150847565/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-0428252-9520916?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130 Basically, it's G-spot massage. Watch it together and move your sex life into overdrive. One friend told me 'I never knew a man could touch a woman like that!!!'. I'll resist the urge to offer a demonstration ...

Have fun .. Steve

My wife and I are struggling (as so many are!) with balancing full time jobs, two kids (4 and 6), managing a house and dog, AND paying sufficient attention to one another. Invariably, our relationship ends up last on the list of things to do. We are both in counseling (individual and couples) and one of the issues that has come up has been my wife's lack of sex drive. We have heard that testosterone creams could be used as a ''libido pick up'', but my wife is reluctant to try it. She has heard of some side affects of the use of this unregulated product to be both unpleasant and irreversible. We would like to hear from other women who have had expereince with using this treatment. wondering husband

I started out at one per day and noticed a bit of effect but not enough to get me back on track. Now I take one daily and then one additional approximately every other day for a total of 10 a week. This is the maximum that she will prescribe to be safe and it works for me.

Kaiser has to have this prescription compounded at an outside pharmacy, and for some reason Richmond is the only pharmacy that will fill it for me. My GYN told me that there's also a manufactured testosterone supplement that's safe for women, but I'll stay with natural as long as I can get it. I haven't looked into the test patch for women since I'm happy with this.

Once I hit menopause, loss of estrogen began to cause me problems with lubrication, orgasm, and libido, so now I use a vaginal ring, ''Estring'', that locally and slowly releases estrogen which is not absorbed systemically. It's made a big difference!

Also, Viagra can enhance sexual responsiveness for some women by improving genital blood supply. Another option worth looking into. Cece

Overwhelming sexual energy in late 30's

Ever since hitting about age 36 two years ago I've found myself with the sex drive of an 18 year old boy. This has caused me to flirt with colleagues, browse ''casual encounters'' on Craigslist, and generally spend way too much time thinking about sex when I should be thinking about my motherly, wifely, and other more wholesome life activities. I've discovered that sex of all kinds is certainly available to women in my situation, but I've not acted on such opportunities. My husband finds it amusing, he cannot keep up with me and says (that's SAYS) he would allow me a limited excursion into a ''sex- only'' experience, so long as it was protected and he got to hear all about it. This goes totally against my rational side and the monogamous values I hold in the bright light of day. But then when an attractive man passes by, I'm all aflutter again. Some days I think I need therapy and other days I'm happy to feel so vibrant and alive. Is it all just raging hormones? Will it taper? Am I the only otherwise happily married mom and wife with this struggle? anonymous, obviously

There is nothing intrinsically unwholesome about sexuality or, in fact, in any expression of sexuality between consenting adults! There's also nothing intrinsically wrong with flirting- it's fun and, just for itself, harmless. And there's nothing intrinsically wrong with surfing pornography or casual encounters for the stimulation and fantasy of it, it's just that women aren't ''supposed'' to be interested in such things (and pornography is mostly geared to men's interests).

Fantasy is great, and masturbation is great, and the two go together very well. I myself have many sexual fantasies that I don't expect to ever act on (as well as others that I've tried out in reality) and they come in very handy in my relationship with my fingers and vibrator!

It's good that you can be open with your husband about this, and he with you, although it sounds like he may not be taking it seriously to heart. But maybe it's really okay with him for you to experiment and he enjoys the idea of being a voyeur in your adventure(s), it may be titillating and arousing to him. Again, anything is okay, nothing is intrinsically wrong.

One word of experience, quite a bit of experience- casual encounters are more often sexually disappointing than not. Really good sex is as hard to find as really good love! I've done them, and have found that what I really enjoy is putting on a short skirt and heels, going out on the town, and flirting with a stranger.

I have a (maybe) off the wall idea for you and your husband. You could go out together, you could dress up as sexually outrageously as you like, and you and he split up at your destination (a bar or club?). You could flirt your little heart out but know who you're going home with. Your husband could watch you in action and get his titillation. Who knows what might happen in the bedroom when you get home!?

Creativity is the spice of life! Another sexed-up woman

Steroids for asthma lowering my sex drive?

As with many marriages, we are experiencing serious lack of sex as parents. We have a 3 year old and 9 month old. I am still breastfeeding, dealing with postpartum hormones etc, but during another one of my husband and my late night fights after an attempt at anything sexual, my husband said that my lack of sex drive occurred prior to having children and actually at the same time I was prescribed and starting using inhaled steroids to keep my asthma under control. It has been about 7 years since that first prescription and, my husband is right, that's when my sex drive went out the window. But, it's also the time we were married, starting having serious responsibilities (mortgage, car payments)= less fun, more work, less partying, more being married. Is the prescription a coincidence or could it be a real factor in my lost libido? When I've mentioned it to doctors, they just say, ''Well, this is quite common for new parents.'' I don't want to hear that anymore. I want to make an effort to make this marriage work, with sex. And, uh, I have to breathe too.
Inhaled then exhaled my sex drive?

How common is passion after 10 years of marriage?

Someone recently wrote in asking about how often couples had sex, and saying that she and her husband, after 10 years, still have satisfying sex 1-2 times a week, and still try new things. My only experience with married sex (from a marriage now over) is that it hardly ever happened and was boring when it did. (What a surprise that we got a divorce.) I have come to realize how important passion and passionate sex are to me, but I feel fairly hopeless that these things stick around after about a year. So I have several questions:

1. To the woman who wrote that posting I referred to: what in the world are you doing that's new after TEN YEARS???

2. How many people out there experience real PASSION with their partners after being with them for many years? (What I mean by ''passion'' is a very intense emotional connection that may or may not involve sex.) If you do, what is it like? Do you think it comes from some deep connection you either have or you don't, or is it something you can drum up by reading a book like ''The Passionate Marriage,'' etc?

3. How many people experience passionate, deeply intimate sex with their partners after being with them many years? And again, do you think this is from an inherent connection, or can you intentionally create it?

If such passion and intimacy are -- after being together for a while -- really rare, I can't see bothering with marriage (or other long-term relationship) again. I'm hoping to hear that lots of folks have these things and that they are reasonable to hope for....

Many thanks for any stories from your own relationship that you might like to share. Anonymous

I think that connecting with a person who is open enough to self reflect and be flexible to communicate about whatever needs to be discussed is key. I really believe that communication is the life blood of a relationship. Not feeling heard or respected is enough for me to make passion die out. I'm pretty amazed that we still feel a hot, physical attraction to one another after all these years!

Replying to your questions, I don't know if it's rare or if books help. For me, definitely working on myself during the relationship has helped, by that I mean trying to be more conscious of my behavior and how it affects my partner, trying to make internal changes that help our relationship while still being true to myself. We did start with a deep, spiritual connection, and now grow and change together. Though, of course, some things do stay the same. I still have some of my annoying personality traits and so does my husband, I guess I've learned more tolerance over the years as well. I hope some of this might be helpful, it sounds like you want to hope and try again. I hope you do and I hope you are pleasantly surprised with a fulfilling relationship! anonymous

That's how I met my current husband. We've been together for 8 years now, with two preschool-aged kids, and there has been no lessening of passion. I don't so much find that we need new ''tricks'' to keep things interesting, but we continue to find one another sexy and as we age together. I think we just get a kick out of learning more about each other. I'd say we go at it 3-4 times a week, and on the days we're not actually having sex, there's certainly caressing, necking and other intimate behaviors.

There are two things of utmost importance: One, it's extremely important to marry someone you're sexually compatible with. This is both in terms of frequency and ''technique.'' Second, and most importantly, you just have to make time for sex. I know everyone says this, but so many people just don't. There are nights where it would be easy to say ''I'm too tired'' or ''I'm still mad at you'' or whatever, but if you make yourself get into it, you won't regret it. How many people look back and say ''I wish I'd had less sex with my husband''?

Our grandmothers were right: sex is the glue that holds a marriage together. happy

It sounds like you are equating passion with the chills & thrills of a new relationship, and I doubt that condition ever survives the first year or so (unless you're in a long-distance relationship or one with lots of hair-raising up and downs). So maybe it's a question of expectations? -- Passionate Wife

I think if you have a good connection with your partner, then you can work on the passion part. There's a good book by Harville Hendrix called ''Getting the Love you Want'' that helped my partner and I through a rough time, and working on the exercises in that book really increased our passion - but as I said, we had a solid foundation to start. Passionate!

I've had 2 back-to-back long term relationships, one that lasted 9 years, and a current one that has lasted 7 years so far. In the first, I no longer wanted to have sex with my partner after a few years. In the current (we're married with a kid) I continue to dig it and we roll in the hay regularly. Because we have a 2-year-old, our interludes are often quick, fun bangs. When we have more time, we'll have deeply intimate sex that leaves me really physically and emotionally sated. I think it's both inherent in the connection and also cultivated.

Comparing my two LTRs, a few things stand out that I believe strongly correlate with my sustained sexual interest or lack thereof:
1. Resentment makes me lose my libido.
2. Respect. My former mate behaved in his business and personal life in ways that made me lose respect for him.
3. Fitness. My current mate bicycles everywhere and it gives him this vitality that I find super appealing. My former mate didn't take care of himself, and it negatively affected his smell, touch, taste, appearance, clarity, and prowess.
4. Peer relationship. My relationship does not have mother/son or father/daughter undertones. We come together as equals/peers/lovers.
5. Freedom and trust. I thrive on a long leash with absolute, solid, mutual trust.

I firmly believe that sex doesn't exist in a vacuum. All these other seemingly unrelated things have a big impact. These are just the keys to my locks; you may have a different set. amy

Why not? Why stay together? Past passions have also either faded or been unhealthy. While I enjoy being alone, and long for more time alone, growing old with someone you love and who loves you is pretty great (esp when you consider the alternatives.)

Ideas for making things more passionate - I do recall hot sex after a particuarly sexy and provactive movie. And talking out fantasies gets things hotter for us too. We used to use sex toys more and still occasionally do.

I'm glad this discussion has been initiated and appreciate past posters honesty. I think many of us believe everyone else has more or different than we do. Perhaps some do, but not most. It's helpful to have a window into this. Anon

-a weekly date-night out away from bills, to dos, and the children -holding hands and being physically affectionate in non-sexual ways when we're together -regular eye contact when speaking with each other (seriously, it's amazing how many conversations you can have while doing something else and not actually look at each other!) -greeting each other at the door when one of us comes home -going to bed at the same time even if it's to curl up and sleep -willingness to try different places, positions, etc. in our sexual interactions -willingness to drop what you're doing when the other person is feeling passionate -scheduling time to be intimate (I used to hate the lack of spontaneity in this, but it's a bit like exercise, if you don't make time for it, there never will be time) -letting go of/not building resentments I'm sure my husband would offer a different list, but these are the ones that help me to feel connected, and that help me to slow down enough from the to-dos to remember how passionately I feel feel. hopeful for you

We also tell each other ''I love you'' every day. Not as a way to say goodbye before hanging up the phone or leaving for work, but as a way to say ''have I told you today how much I love you?''.

The passion I feel for my husband is a choice. After a decade together, we have seen each other at our best and our worst.

There are things about him that drive me insane and things about him that I adore. I choose to see the things that attracted me to him in the first place (his wit, his drive, his mind, his butt).

I choose not to dwell on the things that I wish I could change (his stubbornness, his distractions, his snoring).

I am by no means a Stepford wife, but I enjoy doing things to please my husband. Do I have sex when I'd rather go to sleep? sometimes. Are there days when I don't get a shower and the house is a wreck? sure. There are even days I could run kicking and screaming from the building - but I'd come back. Of course it's not the same as it was in the first year - But, life happens. We have 2 boys under the age of 4, a mortgage so big it's scary, a house so small we trip all over each other, and much more padding around the middle than we anticipated a decade ago. But, those things fade away when we are together. He can still take my breath away with a kiss and he still makes me blush when he tells me I'm beautiful. These aren't feelings that I could drum up from reading a relationship book. They are feelings I choose to continue having.

I think that we do have a deep emotional connection, but I just think that comes from loving the life and family that we have created together. We cherish our relationship and we put priority on keeping our connection to each other. I don't know if passion and intimacy are rare after a decade together, but I think it would be sad to assume that it would be and therefore give up trying. anonymous

I strongly encourage you to read the book for yourself, and see what YOU think--it has made a huge difference to me and my husband (along with Harville Hendrix's, ''Getting the Love You Want''). Intmacy Challenged

I remember passion.....

I read a lot of books in the past about all these issues, so those are very helpful. Also a shitload of therapy can help, though my sister has had more than I, and has never had a really good relationship. I would tell you if he had a brother, and he does, but he's married and is a very cold, critical person.

Also, I want to know about that woman who said they have sex a couple times a week and still find new things to try. Like what, after ten years?? jane

you mention passion and intimacy as though they were inextricably linked. for me they are not. perhaps this is chauvinist of me, bred of male privilege. please feel free to share any and all views of this. i find passion for any new person to be definitely finite, although new people never fail to spark interest. long term intimacy, on the other hand, is for me not at all finite, rather desirable and necessary. so reconciling these two things remains a mystery. your post let me know, emphatically and wonderfully, that i am not totally alone in my confusion.

the marriage was somewhat a poster child for all this. we were together 17 years, married the last 6. when our girl was 2, her mom shocked us both by leaving me for reasons for which we will always disagree. but the passion/intimacy dichotomy was surely no small part, perhaps even more for her than for me. no, there had been no unfaithfulness, at least not on my end. though passion was long gone, intimacy was surely still there. she decided she could do without it, however. she may well have since changed her mind, don't know for sure. when she left 5 years ago, i was so devastated (and surprised) i have been not even close to mustering anything new since. of course there is not much market for 62 year old with half custody of 7 year old; also his own business, hence little free time. also am not much in the corporate, cookie-cutter, conventional wisdom, cell phone, tv watching, drinking, crap eating, relgious mold. but that's a whole other story.

thanks again for a most refreshing, thought-provoking post. good luck and keep on keepin' on. please, never give up looking. without that life would truly be a bore, or so it says here. doug

You don't get passion by reading a book.

Personally, a lot of passionate relationships I had withered after 6 months or so. I think it's because after that time the new glow is off the relationship and you start to deal with the realities of being with another flawed person instead of a fantasy. I'm also certain that me not having any idea of how to have a healthy relationship with another human being was also a large factor.

Committed relationships are hard work. Keeping long term passion in a relationship is even harder work. ''Hot'' relationships rarely (if ever) last more than a few months.

Personally, I think the French have it right... Ray

We probably have sex about 3x/week. Usually, 1 of those will be a quickie, and 2 will be medium-level. Once or twice a month we have a sheet-burning extravaganza. I think both of us are satisfied. To be honest, I think we fit the stereotype that he wants it a little more often than I do and maybe initiates it more often too.

My keys:
1. I say yes to sex even if I don't feel completely in the mood. It's worth it because it makes him feel wanted and sometimes I get into it a little more than I thought I would. He really appreciates it, which pays dividends.
2. Use toys. Make up games. Try new outfits. Etc.
3. Neither of us has a perfect body, but we love each other's bodies.
4. Put love first. I am never too busy to give him a hug or a kiss as we pass in the kitchen. We spend a lot of time snuggling and cuddling without having sex. When he walks in the door after work, we are excited and happy to see him. I make a point of letting him know that he is appreciated and cared for. He does the same.

That last one sounds mundane, but I believe it has been the key to the strong passion that we still have when the bedroom door shuts. We do not take vacations or romantic weekends away from the kids. Things dried up a little during the time they were small; I think that time is hard on everyone. But as they got older, it came back. Any effort you put into your sex life is worth it, short term and long term. In Love

ROME (Reuters) - Thinking of buying a TV for the bedroom? Think again -- it could ruin your sex life.

A study by an Italian sexologist has found that couples who have a TV set in their bedroom have sex half as often as those who don't.

''If there's no television in the bedroom, the frequency (of sexual intercourse) doubles,'' said Serenella Salomoni whose team of psychologists questioned 523 Italian couples to see what effect television had on their sex lives.

On average, Italians who live without TV in the bedroom have sex twice a week, or eight times a month. This drops to an average of four times a month for those with a TV, the study found.

For the over-50s the effect is even more marked, with the average of seven couplings a month falling to just 1.5 times.

The study found certain programs are far more likely to impede passion than others. Violent films will put a stop to sexual relations for half of all couples, while reality shows stem passion for a third of couples.

cite: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2006-01-17T172827Z_01_L16631964_RTRUKOC_0_US-SEX-TV1.xml

My husband thinks other people have more sex than we do

My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We have 2 young children. I am a SAHM and my husband has a very stressful job. In my opinion, my husband and I have a great sex life. We have satisfying sex 1 or 2 times per week on average. We still experiment and try new things. We did not have sex for about a year each time I was pregnant and had a newborn, but between my first and second child, and again now, we are having sex regularly. Unfortunately, my husband feels like we don't have enough sex. I really would like him to count his blessings and feel satisfied with what we have. He thinks that other marrieds have more sex than we do. So, what I want to know is: How often do you and your partner have sex?
- curious about others' sex lives

I still feel that way, but...

.. your husband gets laid 1-2 times a week after 10 years of marriage and two children? And he COMPLAINS about this? :cue hysterical laughter:

I know you only asked for people's experience on the list, but I want to say that this is a common situation, to have one partner want sex more than the other. (And I think it's also common to want to call on some idea of what's normal or expected, to get one's needs met, instead of just saying ''I would like to have sex four times a week'', or whatever.)

BTW, according to a fair number of surveys, American couples have sex an average of around twice a week, slightly more often in their twenties and less often in their 40s or older.

I'll be curious what comes up for replies.... sign me: if only everyone was having great sex once or twice a week!

Here's another survey that has the frequency around 100+ times/year. Though given it's source, you might take this with a grain of salt. http://www.durex.com/cm/gss2005results.asp

I think unfortunately you're not going to solve this issue this way, though. My husband and I are lucky that neither of us has a big sex drive, and we really mesh well that way. If your sex drive and his don't match up, giving him statistics about what other married people do isn't going to solve it.

You could have sex more as a compromise, but that's not really fair to you if you're happy with the amount now. You could encourage him to masturbate more (with or without you there) or have more time for snuggling, etc.

Good luck! happy with not much sex

Husband loses self confidence during sex

Once in awhile while we are in foreplay my husband gets ''nervous'' and loses his self-confidence, losing his erection. When we do have sex it is good and have been married over 5 years and have a child. He says sometimes he puts too much pressure on himself and starts worrying about things and then loses what we had. I try to be supportive but then I get frustrated. We want to start trying for a second child soon and I know he will feel pressure and it might affect us. Anyone have suggestions? I love him and want to help him any way I can. Anon

Did your libido "wake up" when you went off the pill?

After years taking the pill, I am considering getting a tubal ligation, as I know I do not want more children. My question to readers who have had this done, is did your libido ''wake up'' at all after going off the pill? I am hoping that stopping synthetic hormones might help. My doctor says it depends on the person. But I'd love to hear any real experiences, especially from women who have taken Yasmin. Btw - I have never found the risk of pregnancy to be a turn on, as it is for some, so please don't factor that into the equation. Thank you! anon

I want sex much more frequently than he does - is this normal?

I have been with my partner for about 2 years now. We have never enjoyed a very exciting sex life, but it has gone from bad to worse. At this point, I am wondering about what is normal in a relationship? I feel a bit abnormal in that I am the one that seems to really be suffering over this and I am the female half. I would like to have sex much more frequently - a few times a week at least - than I am (which is currently about once a month or once every couple of months). I do not like to initiate it anymore as when I do, it's ends up being completely focused on him: he is very passive.

While I realize that by societal standards, I am attractive, I losing my self-confidence through this. I am wondering what to do, I am wondering if this is normal and just something I need to get used to, and I am wondering if it's me: it seems that it's always men who want more sex than they are getting, not women. Why is this happening?

Advice would be appreciated, as would any helpful reading material or therapist suggestions. sad and frustrated

I don't know what to tell you other than it's not your fault. IT doesn't mean you are not attractive or desirable, you probably are and with the right man you might be having sex every day. Hopefully somebody here will be able to give you info as to how to help your husband. anon