Siblings & Friends
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March 2008
Hello wise ones...I have just crossed the threshold into the
fives which are fantastic in many regard except for one. My
normally sweet five year old has begun to say mean things to her
little sister. It started as 'joining in' with friends and now
sometimes is initiated by her. Either situation is not
acceptable. Any thoughts on handling.
Specifically, my younger daughter seems to be a 'target' of older
kids. They will call her stupid, stinky or diaper head (she's
been potty trained since 20-months, so that obviously stems from
the five-year-old obsession with potty talk). They will run from
her and slam the door on her. My younger daughter, who just
turned three, can be a pesky little sister. She is quite
advanced for her age in many regards, but she still is three. I
also know that she gives fabulous reactions to her tormentors
(term used lightly as I LOVE the kids that are teasing her --
they are great, but just entering a new stage), which may
encourage it.
I am working with my daughter to say 'I don't like that...that's
not nice.' She is very verbal (one of those kids that had
complete sentences by 15 months, but many kids, loses her words
in the heat of the moment. I am working with my elder child to
say to her friends when they start teasing 'that's not nice. Be
nice to my sister.' But, that happens only once out of every
five instances. So...what techniques have worked with you to
help your younger child deal with the teasing and your older
child from stopping the teasing (in herself and friends)?
-need help...
As the youngest of six, this is a bit of a hot button for me. I
don't have two, but if I do, I wouldn't allow it in my house. I
would tell my five year old and her friends that it's not
acceptable, and then the next time it happened send her friends
home (arrange this ahead of time with the parents). Or
alternatively put her in her room separately for a bit. The
other thing you might want to do is tell your youngest that she
needs to give the oldest some time alone. I have only been in
this situation once with my three year old and friends older five
year olds. I told one of them that he wasn't being kind, and I
took my son out of the situation for a while. It seemed that
taunting my son was their best form of entertainment. If they
can't be kind, they can't play. I have thin skin, and it hurts
too much to remember the taunting of my older siblings to let my
son suffer it, or participate in it. It may be typical 5 yro
behavior, but it's not kind.
Hate teasing and exclusion.
I have an 8 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. My children and I
have frequent
talks about how to treat other humans and what it feels like to have mean
things
said to you, and have feelings hurt. When one of them is rude to the other
and I
stop it immediately and we talk about feelings. When my daughter has a
playdate,
her little brother can be a pest and does not leave the girls alone. My
daughter has
a right to have a playdate without her brother interfering. At the same
time, my
son's feelings get very hurt about being excluded. It is my job then to
either play
with him, or provide another play mate for him during her play dates. And,
of
course, this goes both ways. I avoid a lot of name calling just by being
present and
aware of the situation. Sometimes, my daughter ( or my son) slips and I
catch it as
quickly as possible and as she has experience with this, she apologizes to
him and
stops. However, I have had play mates of hers here who were unable to stop
the
rude behavior toward her little brother even with all the structure and
awareness.
Those children are not invited back to my home. And, my daughter, who
loves her
brother, is very understanding about the fact that children who are mean
and rude
to her brother and not welcomed at our home. Because of a lot of work on
my and
my husbands part, my children are thoughtful caring kids and expect other
children who come to our home to behave the same way. I can accept that it
is a
stage to test one's power and use name calling to test that power. I do
not accept
disrespectful behavior however from my children or their guests. And, as
far a potty
talk goes (another phase), at my house you are allowed to do it as much as
you want
as long as it is done alone in the bathroom - a tip from our wonderful
preschool
director.
Lisa
In our house, it is not okay for siblings to tease siblings in a
mean way. It is not okay for friends to tease friends in our
house. It is not okay for friends to tease siblings. It is not
okay to call someone mean names. We tell our kids, their
friends and our own siblings, ''Mean teasing is not okay in our
house.'' In your house, your rules rule. You can set the law.
Just don't allow mean teasing and have consequesnces. Call the
kids parents and send the kid home if they continue to tease.
Also, we don't allow playing with doors or door slamming (too
much opprtunity for hurt or broken fingers and toes and door
jambs). If the older kids need time away from the younger kid,
then they can ask for it kindly - and can ask you for help.
Keep that level of respect high for all. Kids who get away with
mean teasing at this age can be perceived as real jerks when
they get to elementary and middle school. Best they learn
respect and caring now. Even nice kids do mean teasing some
times. Help them learn how to be kind. It does take a village.
Anon.
I too have daughters 2 years apart (5 and 1/2 and 3 and 1/2). I have dealt
with
some similar issues. My girls play quite well together for the most part
when they
are alone. When my older daughter has a friend over it's a whole different
story.
My little one is extremely good at sticking up for herself, but like you
say, she is still
little. I don't want to micromanage their playdates all of the time, but I
can't stand
to see her teased. One thing we have instituted is a zero tolerance policy
for teasing
and excluding her in her home. I talk with my older daughter and her
friend at the
outset of the playdate stating they have to include her (esp b/c the girls
share a
room and it is just not OK to exclude her from HER space!). It works much
of the
time. But definitely not always. As a big sister myself it has really
given me
perspective on just how much the young one suffers.
Big sister and mom
Doesn't your three-year-old have any friends at all she could
play with? It's not fair to your younger child to be isolated
from any friends her own age while being tormented by older kids
who obvously don't want her around. It's also not fair to your
older child to be continually pestered by a ''pesky'' toddler.
Older sister
July 2007
We have two children aged seven and six who are very close and
enjoy playing together. There are no kids in our neighborhood
their age. Our girl, seven, has a group of three great friends
who live in another neighborhood and always have her over for
parties, play dates, etc. Our son has two close friends who
have never had him over for a play date although we have had
them over numerous times. Frequently, our poor son is left
sitting at home while his sister is at her friends, so we
invite his two best friends over. It would be nice if they
would invite him over not only to give us a break, but also to
allow an opportunity to have my daughter's friends over. When
we do invite my daughter's friends over, my son frequently
disrupts her play dates (they are very close and he gets very
active/involved/jealous when her friends are over). Would you
recommend we stop inviting my son's two friends over and
instead invite other kids over who are not my son's best
friends, but who may reciprocate the play dates? How can I make
my daughter's play dates at home more inviting with her jealous
brother close by? Thanks for your advice.
anon
I think I would invite other kids over in hopes their parents may reciprocate. It
would be fun for your son to get to go to other houses and interact with the parents
and play with the other toys. It might feel better to him and you.
anonymous
May 2007
I am hoping some of you can suggest sensible solutions for my
issue.
I have two daughters close in age, 5 1/2 & 4. My two daughters
play very well together and enjoy each other's company. I know
I'm amazingly lucky, but they almost never fight or bicker.
My very good neighborhood friend has one 5-yo daughter and a
teenage stepson. Her daughter is frequently bored, with no one
to play with, so asks for playdates with my older daughter
almost every day.
I'm all for my daughter socializing, but this particular
situation is difficult for my younger child. If the playdate is
at the other child's house, my younger daughter is not invited.
If the playdate is at my house, the big girls exclude the
little one. I know this sounds like mommy bias, but it does
always seem like her daughter is the one doing the excluding.
She hasn't grown up with a close sibling, where she's had to
share and include.
So when they're all here, my little one comes to me crying that
they won't play with her. When they're there, my little one is
bored and lonely.
I feel like my friend calls for these playdates because her
daughter is driving her crazy, but then it leaves me with my
little daughter either lonely or excluded. And, yes, driving me
crazy.
I should mention that these girls are in preschool together
every afternoon.
I don't want to say no to playdates altogether, but I want to
draw the line somewhere. And I do value my friendship with the
other mom.
What would you do?
anon, please!
We have a very similar situation with a neighbor. I have had to be very
clear with
boundaries, and limiting playdates since it's such hard work for me and
hard on my
little one. Really my feeling is one or two playdates a week is more than
enough for
little ones anyway. My two kids can entertain each other for hrs and I
don't have that
same need that parents of only children have. Also playdates at the park
work because
my little one can do her own thing there unbothered. I've found overall
that we have a
much easier time with families with siblings close in age, and parents who
understand
what it's like to have two little ones.
momof2
We had a similar vibe at our house, but luckily it was helped by
my son's Kindergarten teacher who read the entire class the
book ''You Can't Say You Can't Play'' by Vivian Gussin Paley. We
all loved the book. The rule at our house now is ''You Can't Say
You Can't Play''. It also helped to schedule play dates for my
younger one, so the older ones could have a little big girl time
every now and then.
hate feeling left out too
We run into a very similar situation in our household. Our 6-yr
old daughter will play wonderfully with her 3-yr old brother,
but when our neighbor's daughter (also 6-yr old) wants to come
for a playdate, they will exclude him. I have tried to balance
this by giving them a chance to play by themselves, which is
important for them, but to also let them know that they have to
include him in some of their games. I watch it very closely,
because the girlfriend will also exclude our son whenever
possible (she is an only child). So I end up giving them
probably about 50% of time by themselves and the other half of
the time they need to include him. That seems to work most of
the time. Hope this helps!
JOJ
I would suggest that you help your younger child make friends
of her own. It is good for the older child to have her own
friends and do things without the younger one. If you force
the issue you will end up with the older child eventually
resenting her younger sister. Also as they get older, your
older child will get left out of parties etc because her
classmates will not want to have to invite the little sister.
I have seen this happen and the siblings end up being outcasts
with their own classmates. If you teach the younger one to
make her own circle of friends, it will be better for both in
the long run.
seen it happen
Please don't blame the girl or her mother. Younger siblings need
to learn they will get their turn to have their own playdates
when they make their own friends and are old enough for
playdates. This will come up again when your older daughter is
in elementary school and the younger one can't participate in
all the school events. It's hard, but at 4, she should
understand and maybe can do something special with you instead.
--the older sibling
I have two daughters, 2 1/2 years apart (4 1/2 and 7), who are
also the best of friends and usually play beautifully
together. When the older one has playdates, the younger one
expects to be fully included and most of my older one's friends
do include her. My older daughter has never complained that
her sister wants to be included--if she did, I would probably
respect that. Most of the older one's friends don't seem to
notice or mind that the little one is included either. But,
there are a few friends who are not so inclusive. When those
friends come over, I try to invite another friend over for my
younger daughter. Or, I plan a special, enticing activity to
do with my younger one so that she is engaged more with me than
with the older girls. I'm sure this will all change over the
course of time, but that's what works for me now.
Hardin Engelhardt
My oldest kids are 2.5 years apart. I learned that an odd number
of kids is almost always a problem, no matter how well any two of
them play together. You always want to have friends over in pairs
if you have two kids. I cultivated friends for the older one who
had a sibling about the same age as the younger one, so they
could both come over at the same time. What you can say to your
friend is ''Yes that sounds great if I can get a playdate for my
younger one. It just doesn't work with three.''
Ginger
I am no expert on the playdates and siblings issue but what I
do with my daughter (6) and son (4) is state clearly that when
my daughter has a friend over, for the first half of the
playdate the girls must include her brother in whatever they
are playing. Then I take him away and entertain him in the
second half (or remaining time, often they get engrossed so the
first half creeps into the second half).
Also, I would feel free to talk to the other mom about your
youngest feeling left out. There are a number of ways to
enlist her help. You could ask that you schedule playdates
farther in advance so you can coordinate one for your youngest
at tha same time. You could also ask if her daughter could
have a playdate with your younger daughter only some day
(perhaps when the older one is at a different friend's house).
That way the neighbor girl will see how fun it is to play with
the little sis. Or you could have the mom talk to her daughter
about not excluding. Communication is key! My sister and I
are only 17 months apart and we had all of the same friends
growing up. It seems to me that these girls could be your own
3 musketeers if you foster that.
Good luck
Jennifer
you have 2 problems: someone who wants to impose/monopolize your
social calendar, and exclusion. one way to deal with both would
be to set up a ''day of the week'' sort of thing, where you decide
how much time for the big girls to see each other after school
(eg mon and wed), and cultivate some other friendships/activities
for your 4yo on those days. your neighbor could look after the
5.5yo (maybe even pick her up from school if car size allows),
while you take the 4yo to a class/outing/playdate of her own on
monday. then on weds you and the 4yo can make dinner/cookies/art
project or play a game together while the two big girls play at
your house. try to make it extra special for your 4yo. if the
others are interested in the activity, then all 3 might play
together, but only on the condition that everyone is treated well
and not excluded. then on the other 3 days you are ''not
available'' so that your 2 girls can ''have a playdate'' with each
other. when the neighbor/girl ask re: other days, simply smile
and say ''oh, i'm sorry, but we're looking forward to seeing you
mon/wednesday!''
signed: seen exclusion before.
I have an almost six y.o. daughter, who is an only child. Off the
top of my head, I can only think of one other friend of hers that
is also an only child. The rest all have siblings. In all the
playdates we've hosted, I have never expected to include the
siblings. After all, I am asking for a playdate for my daughter.
If the other parent would ask me to take the younger sibling, not
only would I feel that it defeats the purpose of the playdate, I
would feel like she is asking me to babysit. That's a lot
different than having two 6 y.o. play together. My daughter does
have a very good friend who has an older sister, who has come
too. I'm sure she gets a little bored of some of the younger ones
games, but I figure if she doesn't like what they are playing she
wouldn't want to come. And they are all old enough to understand
the concept of democracy and everyone needing to be fair and
agree on what they want to do. Certainly not the case with the
3-4 year olds.
On the flip side, when I take my daughter to a playdate where
there are younger siblings, I make it clear to hear that SHE is
not to exlude the sibling if s/he wants to play. But I do expect
the parent in charge of the playdate to make the rules, whether
it be to include the sibling for a half hour or the whole time or
whatever. And I tell my daughter to follow the rules of their house.
If the mom at the other house is not making rules about
exclusion, then you may need to have a discussion with her. But
at your house, you make the rules. And I would agree that whilst
you don't want your youngest to be left out and lonely you need
to teach her about respecting her sister too and her privacy.
They will spend their lifetimes not having the same friends. This
is not a bad thing.
mom of only that knows not to exclude
It sounds like having playdates for the older girls makes more
work for you no matter where the playdate takes place, because
you wind up having to entertain the younger one instead of
getting stuff done or taking a well-deserved breather. But it's
also important for your older daughter to spend time with her
friends & do ''big kid'' stuff.
Since you get along with the other mom, you can probably explain
your situation & brainstorm on some ideas. I'm sure that she
values your friendship & her daughter's friendship with your
daughter & will want to make things work. I'm speaking from
experience, because most of my 5-year-old daughter's friends have
younger siblings & their moms are dealing with similar issues:
After years of caring for 2 kids in diapers, the siblings are old
enough to amuse each other & Mom FINALLY gets a break!
Perhaps the two of you could chip in to pay an older neighbor
child $5.00 an hour to play with the younger sibling when your
daughters are visiting together. Or, when she hosts the playdate,
perhaps she could have BOTH of your children over & could do some
really fun, special stuff with the younger child while the older
girls play. She may even kind of miss the toddler stage & enjoy
doing this. The two of you could also alternate taking all three
children to a local park where the younger child could find
playmates & fun stuff to do.
It seems like it would be a lot more fair & everyone would be a
lot happier if the other mom could share some of the load. If
she's at all like me, she'll probably be happy to do it in order
to help you out, maintain your friendship, & keep those playdates
coming!
Good luck!
Lisa
Dec 2002
This is causing a lot of turmoil in my house. I have two girls
two years apart. My oldest has a pretty intense friendship with
a neighbor girl, her best friend since she was two. But now my
second daughter is becoming old enough to be interesting to this
neighbor girl (my second daughter would like nothing better than
to join that twosome). When the three of them play together,
while in the past the two older girls have sometimes paired up
against my second daughter, more and more the neighbor girl and
my second daughter pair up in some way against my oldest. In my
oldest's eyes, her sister ruins their playdates. Both the
neighbor girl and my second daughter have expressed the wish to
have their own solo playdate sometime. By themselves my
daughters play together well and often, but this has really
ratcheted up the sibling rivalry; often after encounters with
the neighbor girl, my oldest is in tears and my second is sly or
joyful.
The neighbor girl's mom and I are friends. She says her
daughter likes to think of my second child as a sister, since
she is an only child. Sometimes her daughter seems to be also
enjoying the power this threesome dynamic gives her too. Often
though she is just enjoying being with my second daughter, who
is charming.
I don't know how to handle this. Do we try to protect my oldest
and her friendship with this neighbor girl -- playdates only at
her house, refuse playdates between the neighbor girl and my
second daughter, etc.? (We've tried that --- but it feels more
interventionist than I like to be in their social world). Do I
adopt a more laissez-faire attitude, and have playdates at
either house, and when they are at my house have rules that
everybody plays together? (We have tried this too, and it is
pretty painful to see the petty cruelties since the rules are
not always honored). As I say, it is not that the neighbor girl
and my second daughter are always trying to be mean, but the
very fact of how much they like each other is painful to my
oldest. My oldest has lots of other friends at school, but this
is by far her most intense friendship.
Please help -- any perspective appreciated.
Anonymous for their privacy
When I was a girl, our neighbors had daughters a year older
and a year younger than me, and I was friends with both. I
remember that at various times I spent more time with one
or the other, but we also often played as a group. I'm sorry
for what your elder daughter must be feeling, but I also don't
imagine that preventing the development of a one-on-one
friendship between the other two will be a good solution. I'd
keep in mind that kids go through phases and the friend
might gravitate toward your elder daughter again soon. (The
situation also reminds me of my growing up in a three-child
family--the dyads were constantly changing, but someone
often felt left out!)
Ellen
One thing I learned with two boys: never invite a friend for
one without inviting a friend for the other. The odd numbers
are deadly, because one kid invariably gets left out.
A Mom
Re: rivalry over a next-door playmate
The first thing to do is be thankful that your next door neighbor is a
friend and has been reasonable about this situation. It would be a good
idea to get together with her and strategize how you want to handle your
daughters' play times.
The next thing to do is to understand that threesomes among young
children are inevitably unstable. Today, Child A is the desired play
partner; tomorrow, she's the rejected one. It's painful to watch (and
may bring up painful memories from one's own childhood), but there are
some things you can do to lessen the intensity. First, try to dilute the
threesomes by having another child over, or arranging playdates elsewhere
for one of your daughters. Foursomes and twosomes work because everyone
has a partner.
Don't expect one daughter to stay out of the picture when the neighbor is
playing with your other daughter. They all play together, unless one
child chooses to do something else.
Be very clear that unkindness is not allowed. One consequence for
unkindness is that playtime is over; the neighbor girl goes home and your
daughters have to be in different parts of the house. The reverse of
this is that playing together is a reward for good behavior; the
currently favored pair can play together as long as the third child is
graciously included.
Avoid extended playtimes. All children get tired of each other
eventually and then the fighting begins. It's hard to keep this boundary
when those kids next door are so convenient, but it's well worth the
effort.
You and your neighbor will have to keep alert when the girls are playing
and step in as necessary. Eventually, they will learn the social skills
to manage these rivalries and the situation will resolve itself; and the
girls may be friends for years (or not!). If you weather this passage
with your friendship with your neighbor intact, you will have
accomplished something really worthwhile.
Louise
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