What Do With Nanny on ''Unpaid Holidays''

I am again seeking advice about a nanny issue. When I hired my nanny a year ago, we agreed she would get two weeks paid vacation, six paid holidays (the majors), and six sick days (if needed). I do not have a written agreement with her (my first mistake). My problem is that I have more paid holidays than she does and I want to spend those days off with my children, so I really don't need her. In the past we have traded the unpaid holiday for other weekend or evening babysitting, but for an upcoming holiday she says she cannot trade because she works for another family on weekend evenings, and needs the days to be with her children. (Understandable.) But what do I do? I do not want to have to pay her for a day she is not working. This situation comes up several times a year (i.e., the day after Thanksgiving, which is unpaid and she certainly expects off.) One thought is I could tell her to make up a day off with two weekday evenings of babysitting, and if she says no, then she won't get paid for the unpaid holiday. What have others done in this situation? Also, are there any folks in nanny shares who have figured out a good way to pay a nanny when one family takes off for vacation and the other one doesn't??

Maybe what you can do is to talk to your nanny and come up with a permanent solution that you then put in a contract. This way, you could spell out that she gets certain paid holidays and other holidays unpaid, or decide to pay her for all holidays you get off. When it's spelled out up front, they can't complain about it. anon

(Why didn't you simply agree to give her the same paid holidays YOU get? That would be normal and expected.)

The fact that she's been willing to work extra hours for you without extra pay, in order to ''make up for'' holidays that you've given her, is great. But it's not something you should demand that she do. I would expect a nanny to accept my being late getting home once in a while due to traffic jams or something, but not to be available any time I wanted a Saturday night sitter. (When we asked our nanny to babysit on weekends or evenings, we paid her by the hour -- on the spot, just as we would have paid any sitter. That wasn't part of her normal pay in any way.)

This woman is taking care of what is most precious to you in the world. You trust her -- or you wouldn't have hired her. Don't nickel and dime her. The resulting ill will and bad karma isn't worth the small change you'll save. Holly

That amount did not change when either or both families went on vacation. We did always attempt to coordinate vacation schedules, and usually were able to at least overlap. But we paid our nanny the same amount if we were on vacation as we would if we were home, and the same amount if the other family was on vacation as we would if they were there. Honestly, it's the simplest and most fair way to do it. Holly

I started working for my 2nd family a few years later and was SUPER surprised when they paid me for these so-called ''unpaid holidays''. At one point, the family was traveling for a whole month and they paid me for that month even though I wasn't working. They also paid me on the days the child got sick (and the mom always called me to inform me that she didn't expect me to take care of her ill child -- she had this luxury because she was a SAHM. Also, she didn't want to risk me getting sick and passing it onto the other children I came into contact with.)

Those were two different extremes. The last family I worked with also tried to pay me for unpaid holidays (e.g., 2 weeks pay when they went on vacation). This family was also financially strapped at times and would explain they couldn't pay me for certain days they requested I take off. I think proper etiquette is to pay your nanny for these days because she is planning to work them anyway. If you know weeks/months in advance and can arrange make-up days/shifts, that would be great for both parties, but if not, I think you should definitely compensate her for the time she would usually commit. After all, it is your choice not hers. Experienced Nanny

I think you should treat your employee (your nanny) like the employer you'd want for yourself. Our policy is that if I have a paid holiday, my nanny gets it too (in addition to the other benefits you mentioned).

When I was researching this stuff before starting our first nanny share, at first it felt frustrating to me to have to pay for her holidays, vacation and sick days and then also for MY vacation and holidays or sick days, but then I read a nanny's comment somewhere that said, 'Don't you still get paid when your boss is out sick or goes on vacation?' That really put it in perspective for me. Your nanny deserves to know what her regular weekly or monthly income is going to be and to have some guarantee of that income. If you end up not needing her on a day you have agreed to pay her, then you still pay her! IMO, that's the only fair thing to do.

In all my share situations, we have given the nanny two paid weeks of vacation and had the policy that we will all agree on one week (usually over the Christmas/New Year's holidays) and the other the nanny will take whenever she wants. We have all (families and nanny together) also tried to plan our vacations at the same time if we have flexibility, but otherwise if one family is gone for a week, we still pay our fair share of the share for that week. Otherwise either the other family gets screwed (by having to pay single kid rates) or the nanny does (by getting half her usual income). I just look at it as part of the cost of having such individualized care for your kid. next time, put it in writing

I think the employee has an expected schedule and pay. not paying the employee is a violation of the contract, written or unwritten. The Nanny is to be treated fairly. Jim

When you are taking a day off with your child, you are basically taking vacation. This is not a free day at your nanny's discretion, and she should in any case have a reliable income. I.e. your vacation days should still be paid days for your nanny. Good luck

Just think of what you pay her as a fixed salary amount; it's easier and more fair.

Similarly, if you can coordinate your vacations with the nanny and the other people in the share, great. But if not, your nanny should still get paid when YOU take a vacation. (Bonus: if your share family takes off for vacation and you're still using the nanny during that week, you should be able to pay the share rate, not the single-child rate.) good childcare is expensive

Childcare is expensive, and I definitely understand how it feels to pay for time that you aren't using. But from the perspective of fair employment practices, I think the answer is to pay her as you agreed. Fair pay= satisfied employee

The bottom line is that if you like the way your nanny interacts with your child and want her to keep working for you, then keeping her happy is probably less costly (in terms of both money and stress) than trying to find someone new. If my employer told me that I didn't need to work on a scheduled day, but was expected to make up the time on what would ordinarily be my day off, I would not be motivated to stay with that employer for very long. Nor would I be very receptive to the idea of taking a pay cut if my employer had less need for my services than we originally negotiated. So that's something to take into consideration.

Your employer pays you for days when you are not working. Is this really so different? You will probably need to renegotiate your agreement with her. Since you have fewer workdays than she does, why not give her more time off? Can you afford to keep her wages the same if she works fewer hours? If not, can she afford to have her wages drop? What other solutions can you come up with? (Maybe a share with another family so her hourly wage is higher and your costs go down? Maybe she babysits for a regularly scheduled ''date night'' but there's no rearranging of her schedule around your vacation days?)

I learned these things the hard way. I had a nanny whom I and my daughter very much liked, but my budget was tight and I focused too much on my own costs without putting myself in her shoes often enough. So when the opportunity to work for another family presented itself, she gracefully made an exit. How would you want your boss to handle your vacation?

However, it seems like this year it's unfair to expect her to rearrange her schedule to offer evening babysitting or to ask her to take the day off without pay. If the tables were reversed, would you want your boss to be able to say: ''I don't need you here next Wednesday. You can take the day off unpaid, or you'll need to work two evenings for me.''

Again, I think that if you plan it in advance, then you have every right to set things up the way that works best for your family. I know it's hard to think of everything ahead of time, but please also think of this from your nanny's point of view. You are her job and her income, and it seems like she should be treated the same way you'd hope to be treated for your own job. anon

Really, would you be okay with this if your employers did this to you?

When you hire a nanny, the money is to reserve her for the agreed upon weekly hours - it is not to take here and there and interfere with her personal time when you feel like it. If you opt to not use some of those hours and spend them with your child, what a boon for your child! And it is only fair that your nanny's income and life be stable. It is not fair in the least that you are trying to change hings on her last minute and force her to make up for your whim.

Perhaps you should be giving her the same paid holidays you have (why are you cheaping out and giving her less than yourself?).

In a nanny share, each family must maintain their portion of the pay, whether it is used or not. It doesn't matter if someone goes on vacation - they can opt to, but still must meet their financial obligation to the nanny and to the share.

About pay/benefits: I always look to to the 'real' world and what is typical there. You don't say what her pay is based on. I assume from your post that you do not pay her a regular salary. If in fact you do, you are obligated to pay the full salary for any time you decide you do not need her, just as is typical in the 'real' world. Also, are we talking about actual holidys or just random dys that either of you pick.

If she is paid only per hour, have you agreed to pay for a min per wk minus the unpaid holidays? If yes, have you agreed to which holidys are paid and which unpaid? If yes to these, then you are obligated to pay accordingly, regardless. Did you discuss what options would be, or not be, available for unpaid holidys? Your agrmnt should have included a max of unpaid holidys in order to control how many dys you would not need her as well as the # that she would not be available. BTW, I have never heard of the day after T'dy being a holidy. Unless the original agrmnt included that as an extra day off (as I insist on now), it is vacation for her (which I did for the 1st few yrs).

If the agrmnt was that you decide which holidys are (not)worked then she is obligated to work them. If they are supposed to be mutually agreed upon, then you two need to come to an agrmnt each time. Unless originally agreed upon, you are not obligated to pay 'compensating time off' (CTO). If you offer her CTO and she is not available at those times then she has to accept that CTO is not available. You are not obligated to provide pay or CTO for those 6 unpaid holidys.

All-in-all, you get 6 holidys to not pay her, everything else gets paid whether or not you need her. She should not be working CTO for time that is unpaid. Remember, she has bills to pay whether or not you need her.

Be sure to talk with her about this. It's these little resentments that build up to create an unpleasantness, for the children as well, and ultimately lead to an end of the relationship which is bad for everyone involved. Hope this was helpful nani of 25yrs

Nanny share rate when one family is on vacation?

We will be starting a part-time 2 days/week nanny-share with another family (their home) at the end of the month. Our nanny is terrific and each family has agreed to pay her $9/hour per child for the shared hours (each family has one toddler) so her take-home pay will be $18/hour for the shared hours. There are a few weeks in the upcoming months when we know one family will be on vacation and therefore only one child will be in the nanny- share for those days. My question is, does the family on vacation pay the full $9/hr rate even if their child is not participating in the nanny share that day/week, or a partial rate so that the nanny will earn at least a single-child rate for that day (say, $12hr)? Also, if this is the case I presume it would be the family on vacation that would pay the difference to the single child rate, not the family who still needs care (since it's not their ''fault'' the other family is on vacation?) I haven't been in a nanny-share before and wasn't sure what the norm is. Our nanny will be working for another family the other 3 days/wk. Thanks. nanny-share newbie

Also, you need to figure out what you do when the nanny is sick or on vacation. Does the nanny get paid then?

Ultimately, what you do is negotiable between you, the nanny and the other family. And write down whatever your agreement is in case people start to forget.

I don't actually know if that is ''standard'', but it seems reasonable that the nanny's pay be consistent from week to week. But talk to the other parents, and the nanny, just to make certain everyone's on the same page. Carrie

There were times it seemed a bit unfair, but it was ultimately worth it. As a result our nanny and both families never have the stress of having to pay more or get paid less because because one family is taking time off.

(If you think this is bad wait till you get to preschool where you pay for 2 weeks of christmas vacation and then an extra hourly rate if you need holiday care)

TIME OFF DURING PARENTS' VACATION AND TRAVEL: If the parents and children take vacation or travel during time that is not concurrent with the Childcare Provider's vacation, the Childcare Provider will be paid at the normal rate (as if both children were present) for the normal working days the family is gone.

This means the family that's on vacation pays what they would normally pay if their child was in care. In our situation, our Childcare Provider gets two weeks of paid vacation, so we try to all coordinate vacations, but understand that sometimes difficult to do.

Unless it was agreed to up front, you don't want your provider to lose pay because you are taking time away. It's just not fair. -Love my provider and want to keep her happy

It really is invaluable to get all of this out on the table in written form before you start your relationship with the provider and the other family. Suprises can lead to resentment which can sour the relationship very quickly. Really good childcare providers treat their jobs a s a profession and should be offered the same benefits as people in ''regular'' jobs get...

A share is a wonderful way for the kids to develop a close relationship and have a ''best buddy'' while learning to negotiate and work things out through play. Good luck.... anonomous

The other family keeps paying their share. Of course they don't have to pick up the missing amount. Only paying a little bit more for one child like $12 instead of $9 would seriously impact her income. I would advise against it if you want to keep your nanny (happy). Also struggling with payments

Our nanny gets 3 weeks of paid vacation herself, but it doesn't matter if our and her vacation are at the same time for the payment.

The other family keeps paying their share. Of course they don't have to pick up the missing amount. Only paying a little bit more for one child like $12 instead of $9 would seriously impact her income. I would advise against it if you want to keep your nanny (happy). Also struggling with payments

After all, you don't stop paying your rent or your mortgage when you spend a week in a hotel on vacation. Your nanny is reserving certain days and times for you and deserves to be paid for it when you occasionally don't use it. It's not as if she can just go get another job for that day or week. I am sure there are people out there who don't pay their nannies when they're on vacation, but the small amount you'd save isn't worth the price of your good relationship with both the nanny and the other family in the share.

Your nanny may be able and willing, at least sometimes, to ''trade'' you for a different day or time than usual, if that is something you are interested in. We always paid ours extra for evening babysitting but sometimes asked ours to come a little earlier or stay a little later than usual, without paying more, and figured it all washed out with the times we had her come later or not at all, or leave early. Your nanny may not have that flexibility but if she does it can work out well and feel fair for everyone. Holly

Paying Nanny While Vacationing

Several years ago when my husband was doing his under grad work in NY state, we had a nanny. She did expect payment over the summer when we were not in need of her services. So I think this is fairly common. I guess perhaps she was more of an in home day care provider and was licensed so maybe this doesn't apply at all, but she did work out a special deal with us so we paid something like half time for the summer. Many years ago when I worked as a nanny, my family paid me "vacation pay" for the weeks that they were home with their child which I considered a gift at the time. In return since I was familiar with their home and cat, I would pick up mail and feed the cat at least every couple of days. Hope this helps.

If she takes time off and we need to pay for alternate child care, however, we won't pay her for that time. If you have a pay-by-the-hour relationship (especially less than full time), and pay for every extra minute of work, the relationship may not require pay during vacation. But if your child care provider is good, you will get far more loyalty (and good care in the future) if you pay her for whatever income she can't make up during your absence. Money is always an issue, but we have found that being generous in benefits to child-care workers is worth the sacrifices it takes (if you can possibly make them): we have gotten great care, long-term commitments, and continuing friendship.

If you want to keep her, then the burden is on you to be flexible. Perhaps you can think of some projects around your house that she could do to fill up the two weeks in question (the other two weeks are her paid vaction). Or perhaps you could "lend" her to some friends. Or you could "donate" her time to a non-profit and take a tax break as an in-kind contribution. It would be a nice gesture to let her (him?) pick the non-profit. Some families take their nannies with them on vacation. Hope these suggestions help.

Yes, at first it seems like a lot to pay for nothing in exchange. I really struggled with childcare costs when we first started using a sitter when my son was an eight-month-old. But then I thought about how it isn't all for nothing. Since we ask her to come on specific days at certain times, she is actually an employee on retainer more than just a sitter who comes occasionally.

I also thought about how lost we would be without her, and that she deserved some stability in her payment since she brings so much stability to our lives! And I also thought about how important it is to me, both financially and as far as feeling appreciated, to have paid days off at my own job. And that she should certainly have that same treatment, because she is doing some really crucial work, and doing it well.

You'll need to make your own decision, of course, but if you think this may jeopardize your relationship with her, reconsider. Having a sitter you trust and that your child likes is golden and not always easy to find again. (I could tell you about that, too ... but won't!)

I don't really see a problem with the sitter being paid for holidays or days that I choose not to send my child. After all, I get sick and vacation and holiday pay for days that I don't work. I don't think that childcare workers are any less entitled to paid day's off, or should have to suffer fluctuations in their income just because I as a parent choose to keep my child home, or go on vacation, or whatever. I expect my sitter to be there so that I can go to work, and she expects me to bring my child so she can work...

Several people have questioned whether it is really necessary to pay the regular babysitter if for some reason they don't need them temporarily. I do not understand how a working parent, who is presumably in a superior financial position, can justify withholding the salary of her less-well-off babysitter whenever she likes. I would not want to work for somebody who'd do that and you probably wouldn't either. The fact that the nanny works for you only one day a week isn't relevant - it is a regular job for her and she depends on that income. If you don't pay her, she can't pay her bills. When you get to preschool, you will see that the rules are: you pay by the week/month/year whether your child will be coming or not. PG&E still wants the same amount of money regardless of how many kids show up!

To the mom who came back a day early and asked the nanny to come in that day - I think your nanny should be able to make personal plans for the days you are gone, and should not have to leave her own schedule up in the air pending your decision on a return date. You should give her definite dates she is off as much in advance as possible, and then stick to them. Maybe her surprise announcement of a day off was a not-so-subtle way of protesting your assumption that she'd leave her days open for you just in case you came back early.

Just to repeat what others have said - if you like your babysitter, and you want to keep her, then you need to treat her with the same respect and consideration you'd expect from your own employer. Ginger

Nanny Sick Leave

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